Recovering old messages, and monitoring new ones.

[Ryder101]

On 10/2/2020 at 12:31 PM, Wiseman2 said:

You just want to treat her like a prisoner to get even.

This is why I didn't want to get into the ethics of it all. I spelled out my intentions as clearly as possible, that I have no interest in treating her like a prisoner, yet I'm still accused of it. That's fine. Everyone's situation is unique to their own circumstances which then colors their perspective when handing out advice to others.

 

On 10/2/2020 at 10:09 AM, d0nnivain said:

Understand you are going to read stuff you will never be able to get out of your head.

That's a fear I have and a risk I'm willing to take knowing I'll almost definitely regret later. I already know too much, and it tortures my thoughts 24/7.

 

On 10/2/2020 at 10:09 AM, d0nnivain said:

So ask for the phone & do whatever it is you are going to do to recover messages.

Having thought about this I've decided I agree. I'm going forward with it, but not behind her back. Once I know what I'm doing I'm telling her right before doing it. Her reaction will be just as valuable as what I find on the phone. So far she has denied me nothing, as she claims she's willing to do anything to save our marriage. I'm also asking for a paternity test for our youngest. The other children are practically my identical twins, but my youngest has only a vague resemblance to me; to such an extent that even she has begun questioning my paternity lately (shes asking us why she doesn't look like me, and she even asks her friends to spot any similarities between us). In the past my wife didn't even want me to joke about it, but now . . .?

 

On 10/2/2020 at 12:10 PM, usa1ah said:

He is waiting to know if she has been completely honest with him. That way he will know if he can trust her again. 

This is exactly right.

[merrmeade]

1 hour ago, Ryder101 said:

This is why I didn't want to get into the ethics of it all. I spelled out my intentions as clearly as possible, that I have no interest in treating her like a prisoner, yet I'm still accused of it. That's fine. Everyone's situation is unique to their own circumstances which then colors their perspective when handing out advice to others.

 

That's a fear I have and a risk I'm willing to take knowing I'll almost definitely regret later. I already know too much, and it tortures my thoughts 24/7.

 

Having thought about this I've decided I agree. I'm going forward with it, but not behind her back. Once I know what I'm doing I'm telling her right before doing it. Her reaction will be just as valuable as what I find on the phone. So far she has denied me nothing, as she claims she's willing to do anything to save our marriage. I'm also asking for a paternity test for our youngest. The other children are practically my identical twins, but my youngest has only a vague resemblance to me; to such an extent that even she has begun questioning my paternity lately (shes asking us why she doesn't look like me, and she even asks her friends to spot any similarities between us). In the past my wife didn't even want me to joke about it, but now . . .?

 

This is exactly right.

I hope I'm in time and you'll try my suggestion. 

First - and quickly because your last post was only 30 minutes ago: I do not know WHERE the Infidelity posters - who helped me for the 5-8 years it took for me to emerge from affair obsession - have gone. They would never bother with this odd moral finger-shaking that escalated throughout this thread. I can only figure you're expected to endure the moralizing because the hand of infidelity hasn't touched them directly. Maybe, too, because you're holding together so well (too well?) and there's an unfair and unrealistic expectation that you're ready (nevermind, willing!) to follow advanced-stage recovery advice. It's not realistic. It's not even kind. You're not there yet and, yes, you have a right to this information and obvious need for it. Just go with your visceral impulses. You're so in control of everything else and have  been so burned by others crossing boundaries that you owe no apologies or explanations to anyone for asking for this help.

Now, back to the topic and request: The 3rd part apps DO work. I'd avoid trying the iPhone recovery method because you could end up destroying the information forever like I did.  A lot of people use Dr. Fone, but I didn't have the tech skills at the time for it.

I ended up using DECIPHER TEXTMESSAGE (by Decipher Tools). Looks like you can use it free for 30 days which is plenty of time to get what you need. I ended up paying the $29 (now $39) and have to email them when phone systems upgrade. They're a small operation and write you back quickly with upgrades if you end up buying the license.

GOOD LUCK!!! Keep us posted...

Edited October 4, 2020 by merrmeade
spelling

[Watercolors]

1 hour ago, Ryder101 said:

This is why I didn't want to get into the ethics of it all. I spelled out my intentions as clearly as possible, that I have no interest in treating her like a prisoner, yet I'm still accused of it. That's fine. Everyone's situation is unique to their own circumstances which then colors their perspective when handing out advice to others.

 

That's a fear I have and a risk I'm willing to take knowing I'll almost definitely regret later. I already know too much, and it tortures my thoughts 24/7.

 

Having thought about this I've decided I agree. I'm going forward with it, but not behind her back. Once I know what I'm doing I'm telling her right before doing it. Her reaction will be just as valuable as what I find on the phone. So far she has denied me nothing, as she claims she's willing to do anything to save our marriage. I'm also asking for a paternity test for our youngest. The other children are practically my identical twins, but my youngest has only a vague resemblance to me; to such an extent that even she has begun questioning my paternity lately (shes asking us why she doesn't look like me, and she even asks her friends to spot any similarities between us). In the past my wife didn't even want me to joke about it, but now . . .?

 

This is exactly right.

What makes you think you will find anything that will change the direction this is heading (towards divorce)? Even if you find more evidence of your wife's affair, that isn't going to fix your broken marriage. This is what I find so confounding about people in your situation. Your wife cheated on you, and instead of moving forward, you want to remain steeped in the past with the intent on digging and digging like Indiana Jones until you find the ark of the covanent (and by the end of the movie, the ark was put in a box with a label and stowed away in a warehouse, owned by the U.S. Govt. So, all that work Indiana Jones did, all the risks he took was all for naught. The ark didn't give him any spiritual everlasting life or earn him any money from the gov't). Your divorce from your wife is imminent. You are even questioning the paternity of your 3rd daughter.

Just hire a divorce lawyer and file the paperwork. There's no saving your marriage. I'm sorry but it's long gone. You find evidence on your wife's phone of her cheating is not going to endear you to hear and it's not going to make you empathize with her. All that will accomplish, is enrage you to the point where you punch her and then you will lose custody of your children in family court.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Watercolors

[merrmeade]

2 hours ago, Ryder101 said:

Once I know what I'm doing I'm telling her right before doing it. 

Just do a test run first to be sure you're still ahead of the game. 

[Poutrew]

On 10/3/2020 at 4:37 AM, d0nnivain said:

No it's actually cheap:  $15 per hour.  While I don't think it will change the split on a divorce, recovering this info is a painstaking process even more so if you want it to hold up in court so if you are going to go through all the trouble of doing this, do it right.  

Nope. The way I read it they are going to charge him $300 for each hour they work on the phone. For 20 hours total, that comes to 6 thousand dollars... if only they offer a money back guarantee if they can't recover anything. 

[DKT3]

I will save you some time and money.  If it makes her look worse in your eyes or lessens your desire to want to stay married she is lying about. 

With that being said, you seem like you're hell bent on making it work so searching for more is simply pain shopping.  If the direction of your marriage is dependant upon how long the affair was then you need to gather as much information as possible.  

Again a simple and cheaper method is a lie detector.  While the lie detector test itself is unreliable the threat us very real.  Insist on the test and don't waver. Pay attention to how she reacts to the request.  If she is hiding stuff she will absolutely follow a pattern.  Wayward spouses need to control information.  So you will see anger, sadness, bullying and threats of divorce.  Oh if you don't trust me we shouldn't continue the marriage.  If you stay the course she will slowly start to leak more information, again that need to control information.  At this point you have your proof that she has been honest. 

Me personally, I just filed for divorce, once I did I got everything.  

[Starswillshine]

OP,

Dr Fone was successful. I pulled messages that were deleted years before (though, it was an old phone that he hadn't used for a year). But you need to do some research to make sure that particular phone model (and the carrier) is compatible before you pay. I pulled text messages, photos, and emails. There was A LOT. I only saw a small portion before hell broke loose and the phone was destroyed. SO good luck. 

[mark clemson]

21 hours ago, Ryder101 said:

Having thought about this I've decided I agree. I'm going forward with it, but not behind her back. Once I know what I'm doing I'm telling her right before doing it. Her reaction will be just as valuable as what I find on the phone. So far she has denied me nothing, as she claims she's willing to do anything to save our marriage.

I do think she should be willing to give you the phone (if she's not lying, it shouldn't be that big of a deal). That said, I think once you get back to MC you should own up to the fact that you're not actually doing this Radical Honesty thing. You've been plotting this for a while, and now you intend to "spring it on her" - far from honest about any of it.

Maybe you are thinking "it takes a liar to catch a liar" - ok, I get that. But - what if you just tell her you want to look at her phone. What is she going to do? Throw it away? Suddenly lose it? That tells you whatever you need to know right there IMO.

I don't think you're treating her like a prisoner, it's her own willingness to "do" (or put up with) anything to save the marriage that is doing that. If she doesn't want to give you the phone, maybe SHE should divorce YOU. But I doubt she will - she doesn't have the stomach for it. I suspect you don't either, except perhaps from the extreme kick in the balls further info on her infidelity might give you, although I could be wrong.

You obviously can't bring yourself to give her the same "radical honesty" you are demanding from her. That's understandable, given that you've been hurt, but is also, now, today, very hypocritical. I think that, if whatever you find (if anything) isn't enough to make you want to leave the marriage, then you need to own your own attitude and behavior. Your therapist isn't going to be able to do much for your marriage if you're going to keep lying to him/her whenever you feel the need to. And quite honestly I would question why anyone would feel the need to stay in a situation that obviously causes them significant insecurity and distress.

 

To summarize: it's not what you are doing (asking to look at the phone content) that I'm looking askance at here, it's how you are going about (like it's some sort of paranoia-fueled secret mission that is very much going against the "terms" your marriage is supposedly operating on now). Again, do what you must, if you must, but be sure to bring it out in therapy. That's as much for your own sake as for anyone else's, as there may not be a marriage left to save soon, depending on what you find.

Edited October 5, 2020 by mark clemson

[Bittersweetie]

On 10/2/2020 at 9:59 AM, Ryder101 said:

If anyone has an idea on how to regain trust, I'm all ears. I've tried the therapist's advice, I've read the articles from licenced counselors, but all of it falls short of addressing the root cause. 

If I may again...it is mainly the WS's responsibility to rebuild trust. Because they are the one that broke it. Ways I did that: complete transparency on my computer and phone (passwords etc); texting my H when I went somewhere, like work or to meet a friend for dinner (in which I would send a picture); seeing a therapist myself and then talking about the session with my H; reading books about infidelity, relationships, etc in order to educate myself. Some of these things really bothered me at first, like the texting thing. Then I realized, it was up to me to rebuild the trust, my H wasn't going to give it to me as a gift after what I'd done. Obviously I wasn't perfect because I trick-truthed and hid some emails, but after that came out I did work hard to make my H feel as safe as I could. I liken it to having a trust bank the size of a car, and I'm filling it one penny at a time. One small action, one penny. Like I said in my other post, his words were powerful to me and made me take full responsibility for my actions which included tiny actions to rebuild trust.

Also, this did not happen right away. It wasn't like a few months in he was like, it's all good now. Reconciliation is a journey, not a destination. My H did give me the enormous gift of a second chance, and I worked hard on myself, and we both worked hard on our marriage. Our marriage is not the same one it was before. Our marriage has deep scars. At one point after d-day, my H said to me: "You were the one person who was supposed to have my back. And you didn't." That resonated because of its honesty. My priority now is to have my H's, and now our son's, back. We turn toward each other with problems, rather than away. We are a team. I wish with my whole being that we could've gotten to this place in a different way, and not through the path of my choices and the pain they caused. But that's not how it happened, and I regret that every day.

I'm not sure if this helps you at all, and if hearing from a fWW is not what you want to read right now, I understand. Best of luck to you on this terrible path that was foisted on you. I am sorry.

 

[Ryder101]

4 hours ago, Bittersweetie said:

I'm not sure if this helps you at all, and if hearing from a fWW is not what you want to read right now, I understand.

I very much appreciate hearing from a person who has done this and reconciled. Your post made a lot of sense to me and was refreshing in that, so far, I've felt like everyone is putting the burden of regaining trust on me (what I have to do, how I have to do it, how I am supposed to think). My wife has been doing the same things you mentioned (she calls me on the way to her destination, calls me on the way back, Facetime's me while there, sends me pics, etc.) I've been feeling guilty about appreciating her doing this without me asking because it made me feel like I was accusing her of further cheating without actually saying the words, and she was trying to prove everything was OK. I had been seeing these offerings of trust completely wrong until I read your post.

I have so many questions I want to ask you, but in reality it's my wife's answers I need and I shouldn't try to substitute your unique situation for mine in an attempt to fill the gaps. 

 

4 hours ago, Bittersweetie said:

"You were the one person who was supposed to have my back. And you didn't."

That is exactly how I felt, and almost exactly what I said to her. I had constructed my perception of the world based on the assumption that everyone else might let me down, but the one person I could rely on with unshakable certainty was her. It's hard to trust your abilities to perceive things accurately after the one thing you felt sure about turned out to be wrong.

 

On 10/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, merrmeade said:

for me to emerge from affair obsession

I think this is becoming my reality. Not only am I obsessing over it, I'm doing it to my own mental detriment. I'm viewing everything through the lens of the affair. Everything is reminding me of it, and I'm reminding myself of it when it doesn't. These thoughts are painful, for lack of a better word, and yet I'm seeking out this pain like a masochist who gets no pleasure out of it. The counselor says I'm taking all the responsibility for the affair and now I'm punishing myself for it by seeking out these mental images and refusing to distract myself from the intrusive thoughts.

 

On 10/4/2020 at 3:02 PM, merrmeade said:

I ended up using DECIPHER TEXTMESSAGE

Thank you. I'll look into it as well as Dr Fone.

[ARAMCOMAN]

I would ask her straight out why did you keep these pictures of the AP. Ask her to hand you her phone, if she has anything to tell you before you take the phone to a forensic IT specialist to recover texts months prior to the DD she provided. Then tell her this will go a long way to re building trust. Then do what you gotta do if she refuses or complies.

[mark clemson]

⬆️⬆️  the straightforward approach. Much healthier IMO and I bet your therapist would approve. (And if they don't then ask them for their precise definition of "radical honesty" before you go find a new one, heh).

[Ryder101]

Conclusion: I told her what I was going to do, she confessed to another affair. No need to uncover her deleted messages. I'm broken.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Ryder101

[d0nnivain]

I'm so sorry.  

 

[mark clemson]

Very sad to hear. I don't advise people to divorce, and I won't with you either, BUT - I certainly don't think anyone would blame you at this point either.

[vla1120]

I'm so sorry to hear that Ryder101. I don't know where you plan to go from here. I stayed for 18 years after my husband cheated on me (with my best friend and neighbor - and my 5 year old daughter is the one who caught them and told me about it) because I thought that was best for my daughters. By doing that, I taught my daughters it's okay to let someone betray you. It's okay to allow someone to lie to you, and then knowing they are lying, turn a blind eye. Unfortunately, if you are like me, even if she swears on her life and the life of your children that she will never cheat again, you will always wonder. All three of my daughters have relationship issues, and I believe it is because we did not show them a healthy, trusting, mutually respectful relationship while they were growing up. Instead, they were exposed to betrayal, suspicion, mistrust and dysfunction. 

In addition to MC (if you still plan to go), I would add IC to help you navigate this situation. I wish you much luck. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by vla1120

[schlumpy]

I'm sincerely sorry for your situation.

That image in your head of who you thought she was is going to have to be revised. Your upcoming decisions must be made on the basis of who she has shown herself to be.

[Veronica73]

I’m so sorry.

Good for you for following your instincts.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Veronica73

[Crazelnut]

Your marriage counselor sucked. Radical honesty doesn't work with cheaters. I'm so sorry for your pain. 

[usa1ah]

Damn.  
 

Sorry to hear this. Time to talk with a lawyer and end this relationship. Your wife is a once a cheater always a cheater. 

[Watercolors]

Sorry to hear that but at least you know the truth about your wife's multiple affairs now. 

[S2B]

I hope you get support from a professional. Someone to help you navigate this difficult time.

so sorry.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. Time for a "radically honest" conversation with your attorney.

In fact that should have been your first stop, not wasting time,money or energy on useless spy gizmos and apps.

The reason for this is that an attorney can discuss where you stand and all the options you have. It's a practical and informed approach.

A useless spy apps or lie detector tests do nothing. It's like playing videogames when your house is on fire 🔥

[Fletch Lives]

Relationships take work. But that is way too much work. wow, just wow. 

[Bittersweetie]

Ryder I am sorry. Now you have the truth of your own life and can make your decisions accordingly. Good luck.