Sudden D-Day and Questions

[CTC20]

This is my first post although I have been lurking for a while now.

This is also my first (and ONLY!!) A, and I am so ashamed of myself to even say that when I never thought I would put myself in a position like this. The details: me/married 20 years/3 kids/progressively unhappily married for last 10 years or so and MM/married 9 years/2 kids/seemingly happily married but with "something missing." The A lasted just over 1 year after a long friendship. We met about 5 years ago doing a group activity. Over time chatted casually about our shared activity and our families and kids. Eventually decided to get the kids together for a play date - that worked out well and we did that a few times and then met up with our entire families after that. We all hit it off and had a great time - instant friends with the wife, kids instant friends with each other. 

MM and I continued our shared activity, becoming even more serious about it and investing more time into it. Spouses were okay with and even encouraged our time spent on that together. At the same time, both families grew closer with frequent gatherings, holidays, and even vacations. BW and I also spent time developing our friendship alone where we would both talk to each other about difficulties in our marriages, work, etc. MM and I continued to spend time together including texting (very innocently) and planning around our shared activity.

Fast forward a few months and MM and I were alone for an extended period due to our activity. On this day after our activity was complete he asked if I wanted to get dinner and it felt different. We ended up talking for hours and while nothing physical happened - the energy was different. 

After that there was more texting, calling, and time spent together outside of just our shared activity. Still platonic although at this point we both acknowledged that there seemed to be something different there, but whatever it was we would never act on it and instead support each other in bettering our respective marriages. He especially was adamant about neither one of us ever divorcing as that would be the worst failure. Neither one of us had ever been in a situation like this and it felt it would be easy to simply continue the friendship as we always had.

Well, texting and phone calls gradually increased. Over a period of months there was more sharing and a deeper emotional bond created. More time spent on hobbies, outings, and even mundane things like errands. Meanwhile our families also grew closer. MM and I talked a couple times about a seeming attraction for each other, but iterated that we would never ever act on it for obvious reasons.

But then after a period of several months began the extended hugging, pecks on the lips, and eventually kissing. Once that began we immediately tried to stop it and break contact. That unfortunately didn't last and since then one or the other would raise the topic, reiterate how wrong it was, and try to end it many times. It never could seem to last although we both knew that this was a very bad thing, would go nowhere, and that we needed to end it before people were hurt. He remained clear that he was never leaving BW, and continued to encourage me to work things out with H. The complexity of the situation led to many discussions and jealousy and hurt on both sides.

I began to feel increasingly guilty around BW and would try to avoid being around her, although I often had to because of the closeness of our families. But it didn't bother MM. In fact he often encouraged me to see her. By this time he and I we were spending hours every day/night on the phone, texting throughout the day, and meeting up whenever possible (which wasn't very much) outside of busy family and work schedules. It was clear that we had both developed deep feelings for each other although we talked around it. 

Then just over a week ago we experienced D-Day. We were actually at their home - I had run out to pick up some beer and apparently BW saw an affectionate text message from MM to me. While I was gone she shared what she had found with MM and H, and H texted me that he knew. I panicked and didn't go back and instead went home. I made a call to MM to find out what had happened but BW picked up and I hung up because I didn't know what to do or say. Since then there has been zero contact on either side.

In the meantime, I am of course struggling through everything that comes with this - guilt for betraying H and my family, my friend, missing MM, anger with MM, trying to navigate a potential divorce that H is considering, etc. H is understandably very upset and I feel incredible shame for the pain I have caused he and everyone else. It feels like I still can't wrap my head around having even done something like this.

So now I'm just struggling to work through the knowledge of what I've done and what to do next in this awful mess I've created. It feels like every day is a challenge to get through as the waves of anxiety and despair and guilt peak and subside while trying to think clearly about certain questions I have and other things that I'm trying to make sense of.

- Neither set of children know what has happened, yet have noticed the lack of contact and have been asking when they can see each other. I have no clue how to handle this other than to just keep putting it off. I realize this is horrible for them and am open to any ideas?

- Due to the extreme guilt I feel towards my friend, I was wondering if I should reach out to her - even just to give her the opportunity to tell me exactly what she thinks of me. I am not sure if that would be helpful or come off as more selfish to appease my own guilt.

- As far as both BSs know, this was an emotional affair. In truth there was some physical towards the very very end almost a year in, but my guess is that MM has not shared that with BW and I have not shared that with H - due to that part of it being very brief and 95%+ of it truly being emotional and not wanting to further hurt either spouse. Thoughts on that?

- H is now seriously considering divorce (something we had already been considering and had actually initiated once years before this) and unexpectedly I am not feeling any urge to stop him or try to talk him out of it. Does this seem like it means the marriage is over, or is it too soon to tell post D-Day?

- D-Day happened due to a very careless mistake on the part of MM (sending an affectionate text message right before handing his unlocked phone to BW - turns out he never deleted any messages). When I consider this, I recall that the last couple of months he had gotten almost brazen in general - calling me when he knew I was with BW or H, trying to touch me when we were all together but nobody looking, etc. Wondering why (and not happy that) he would do this when we were both so worried about getting caught and hurting people? Was this perhaps some sort of easy way to blow this up?

- Is it normal for MM to have been so comfortable around BW and I together, and even BW and I alone? While he acknowledged that it bothered me and eventually tried not to force me into that position, he was clear that it didn't bother him and I always found that odd.

I appreciate any insight and deserve all the harsh reactions I know I will also get. I'm disgusted over allowing myself to do this and how I've impacted so many innocent people. I'm hoping it's possible at some point to feel balanced and back somewhat in control of my life again.

Edited October 1, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Member request

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ConfusedThenCaught said:

Is it normal for MM to have been so comfortable around BW and I together, and even BW and I alone?

Yes, I don’t know how someone would be able to do this in good conscience. Seriously. 

As to the BS, I would suggest that you leave the woman alone. That friendship ended the moment you decided to flirt inappropriately with her husband, you just didn’t know it. She may want to share a few choice words at some point, or she may not. Either way, there is nothing you can do to heal this situation for her. Her trusted friend betrayed her trust with her husband... there is no coming back from that. 

As to the children, oh they are going to have a lot of questions... I tend to believe that children are very wise, they will know that something is going on and for lack of concrete knowledge, their little imaginations will work. I wouldn’t even begin to advise, because the answer likely depends on their ages and whether you plan to stay in your marriage and so many other things. Perhaps a counsellor would be helpful, someone  who has experience with family trauma and extramarital affairs. This experience is likely to change their little lives forever, in ways that you can’t even begin to imagine at this moment. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, ConfusedThenCaught said:

H is now seriously considering divorce (something we had already been considering for years before this) and unexpectedly I am not feeling any urge to stop him or try to talk him out of it. Does this signify that the marriage is indeed over, or is it too soon to make this decision post D-Day?

It sounds like affair fog... you express more concern for MM and his spouse than you do for your husband. And that is a real problem. 

Your marriage can not be accurately evaluated in the context of an affair. It’s not fair to your husband, it’s not even fair to you or your children. Your husband has every right to file for divorce, but you are not in a place where you can evaluate the state of your marriage while you are involved with another man. 

1 hour ago, ConfusedThenCaught said:

- As far as both BSs know, this was an emotional affair. In truth there was some physical towards the very very end almost a year in, but my guess is that MM has NOT shared that with BW and I have not shared that with H. Due to that part of it being very brief and 95%+ of it truly being emotional and not wanting to further hurt either spouse. Thoughts on that?

Well, how fair is it do you think to keep the truth from your spouses? You seem to be trying to minimize and sweep your behavior under the rug, probably under some misguided concern for your children and your husband (I say misguided because if you were concerned for your children and your husband, you would never have made the decision to cross the line and put the stability of their family and friendships at risk). Personally, I think you owe them the truth, at the very least. Maybe not all the sordid details, but they have a right to know the truth of the betrayal. With this information, they can then begin to make informed decisions about their lives. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by BaileyB

[DKT3]

That's because there was most likely no intent to divorce.  We have all heard the rewriting of the marriage,  all of a sudden issues that actually started right around the time interest in someone came to be turns into horrible for many many years before.  Its a way to not take responsibility for being the one who actually ruined the marriage. 

Its pretty easy to say, I'm don't want to stop him from divorce while still so connected to the affair,  but I suspect once it starts and the reality hits it will feel alot different. 

[CTC20]

Thanks for commenting - I absolutely deserve everything you are all saying. To answer some questions and help clarify:

Yes, I have a FT job with enough income to care for myself/kids. I actually make more than H. 
 

When I said we got more physical at about the year mark, I should clarify that it wasn’t sex but kissing beyond the pecks we’d done in the past. Still absolutely WRONG but it was no more than a few times and not beyond that (although I’ve read enough here to know that it likely would’ve progressed had we allowed it). Somehow at the time it felt “not as bad” that it was only talking. Clearly lying to myself and trying to rationalize something that was wrong on so many levels. 
 

Regarding my M, we actually started the divorce process a few years ago after two years of counseling but then stopped it (without really changing anything). Mostly the thinking was it would be better for the kids. That doesn’t at all justify my participation in this A; but in thinking through it now it probably made me more susceptible. An A is nothing I‘ve ever remotely considered and in fact condemned those who participated. I agree I should have divorced or at minimum told H what was going on or what I was beginning to feel prior to the A. 
 

Good advice on not contacting the BW. I will let that be. 
 

I absolutely feel significant guilt and remorse for what I’ve done to my family (although that may not be well written in the post). Maybe I didn’t spend as much time on that because I feel like I have more influence or involvement in what happens on this side of the fence? That may be naive. But over these past 10 days have shared many many tears with H and over children (who do not know the situation). I fully realize I should’ve thought of that before. I guess I had this fantasy that when he or I ended it we could go back to being just friends and everyone else could remain friends without having known. Ridiculous, I now realize. 
 

Had we not been caught, I can say truthfully that I was planning to end it. It was getting to a point where I felt horrible all the time, it was increasingly stressful and time consuming, and the understanding of what this would mean to everyone innocently involved was killing me. Also realized that the more things progressed the worse the outcome would be. But yes - I was struggling to do it in a way to minimize impact (understanding that the families would still be involved with each other so NC would not have been an option - at least that’s what I thought at the time which was clearly ridiculous) and definitely had not done it prior to D-Day. 
 

I had and still have lingering feelings for MM, yet every day that goes by and the more time I spend really trying to think about this objectively outside of the feelings part, I find that I’m beginning to feel manipulated (understanding and not minimizing that I was a willing participant) and had overlooked many red flags as to this person’s character which now appear to be more apparent. I seem to go between feeling very angry and foolish, to feeling extreme guilt and regret, to feeling such an aching sadness for this entire mess and everyone impacted. The different feelings seem to come in waves so I’m trying to ride it out without making any big decisions or taking any actions until hopefully I can stabilize or balance a little bit and take next steps with a clearer head. Your comments also help me with that, as painful as some of them are to hear. 

[DKT3]

So you say you started up with this guy 5 years ago and started divorce proceedings a couple years ago,  yet one isn't connected to the other? 

As I said,  If we were to ask your husband he would say the issues in your marriage started 5 years ago.

It also fairly difficult to believe an affair that lasted that long only progressed to kissing,  especially with how careless you two were.

I know you believe your account,  but honestly it doesn't make sense. I'm sure it all sounds good in your head. 

You say you two spent every second you could get away with together to do what? Kiss like 14 year olds? Adults have sex.

Lastly you say you two agreed that you wouldn't leave your marriages,  later you say he knew you might leave your marriage. For something unrelated.  Yet you went from never leaving the marriage to maybe leaving the marriage while in your affair.  How are the two not connected? How would you respond if a friend told you that? Would that make sense to you?

[Azincourt]

Yeah.

Get a divorce. Get ready for the cluster hell of drama that is about to fall on all of you. Get custody of the kids if you want them, and move away as far away as possible from your partner and from your lover.

[BaileyB]

6 hours ago, CTC20 said:

When I said we got more physical at about the year mark, I should clarify that it wasn’t sex but kissing beyond the pecks we’d done in the past. Still absolutely WRONG but it was no more than a few times and not beyond that (although I’ve read enough here to know that it likely would’ve progressed had we allowed it). Somehow at the time it felt “not as bad” that it was only talking. Clearly lying to myself and trying to rationalize something that was wrong on so many levels. 

It wouldn’t matter to me if you kissed or had sex. While you were building a relationship with his wife, you were behaving very inappropriately with her husband. You were in her home, you travelled with their children, she told you personal information about her husband and her marriage... all the while engaging in behavior that threatened to integrity of her marriage and her children’s family. It may have felt “not as bad,” but that’s a really serious thing. It will be life altering for both of you, and your spouses, and your children. 

[magnolia18]

CTC20, I am really sorry you are going through this. I am in the middle of a similar, although also quite different situation and I can understand what you are going through, as well as the constant change of feelings, from feeling angry and manipulated to feeling miserable and compromising the life of two families. Although you are obviously just as much to blame as your affair partner, I understand how easy it can be sometimes to fall in this affair trap, especially when you see someone each and every day and you already have problems in your marriage. It would have been so much better if you had divorced before starting looking for something new. However, these things happen and I think many people are too intent on judging and condemning rather than understanding and trying to help. I agree you should start working on yourself, try to understand why you fell so easily for a man who did not respect his family and wife enough to at least protect both of you from having daily contact while he was playing around with you. Also, why you did not go through with the divorce years ago, when both you and your husband agreed it would be best. Like all affairs it will probably change the lives of all of you, but I don't agree that you should confide any more of the truth to your H. He knows enough to act upon and whether you actually had sex or just kissed or whatever, is not likely to change much as far as hurt and decisions are concerned. I think that apart from beating yourself up over this, you should try to understand more about yourself and why you let this happen, either on your own or through IC.

[Amethyst68]

Please never refer to this woman as a friend again. This double betrayal is one of the worst type of affairs especially when you managed to get the wife to actually confide in you about the state of her marriage and disrespect her in own home!

You mention your MM acted up in front of your families but you don't say anything about stopping him.... You could have stopped this at any time,  you didn't which indicates you liked the attention with that extra bit of danger attached,  until it blew up in your face that is. 

To me your post is more about the guilt and regret about getting caught rather than the act of the affair.  You also contradict yourself saying you were working up to stop it but in another post saying it likely would have progressed to sex.

You're really dismissive about your own marriage,  maybe it's time to give your husband some respect, especially wrt the divorce. 

[Allupinnit]

Unfortunately the friendship between your families will never be repaired, and I'd proceed with the divorce it seems you want, anyway.

I don't know what you should tell your kids - affairs have long-reaching effects/consequences beyond just the two people involved.  Now you may have two broken up families and kids being shuttled back and forth between houses, not to mention the pain felt by you and your spouses.  It's a trauma. 

You can't unring the bell but you can start with being 100% honest with your H and let this thing play out how it will.  I hope you can move forward and forgive yourself, and vow to lead an authentic life going forward for your kids.

[stillafool]

Yep, it's definitely a poop storm you and MM created but since you were wanting to divorce your husband anyway now is the chance to do it.  Don't try to hold onto him because you know you don't love him.  Leave BW alone because she will never understand your side or forgive you.  Seek shared custody of your kids.  Good luck.

[mark clemson]

10 hours ago, CTC20 said:

Thanks for commenting - I absolutely deserve everything you are all saying.

Heh, not really, although if flagellation from internet strangers helps relieve your guilt, well - clearly they get something out of it too. So perhaps a win/win?  There are boards where posters have to put little stop sign icons up on their threads to keep people like that away, but you seem to be tolerating it well.

I don't have answers to the list of questions from your original post. However, I'll definitely agree with the advice to leave your former friend (and the husband) alone. Enough harm has been caused and I don't think it will help anything.

I'd note that your story sounds very typical for this kind of board. You were unhappy in your marriage and found an emotional band aid in the affair partner. AP likes it too but not quite as much. Great for a while, but eventually not so great; lots of mixed feelings, etc. Now over - in your case with a bit of a bang.

Clearly your husband was also unhappy since you both discussed divorce. Possibly this will be the kick in the pants he needs to actually leave. While I don't advise people to divorce, I do think some marriages are better off ended. Not sure if that is yours, but it's nice that you seem financially and emotionally secure enough to be ok leaving, should it come to that.

If it does end, my advice would be to do your best to minimize the impact to your kids. IF your H makes a big deal out of the affair to them you can always point out that, while the affair was indeed very significant, and wrong, in your case it was ultimately one piece of a larger puzzle.

[pepperbird2]

op,

You're not a terrible person, but some of your choices have been pretty bad. What is it in you that allowed this to continue? Did you realize how "in deep" you were?

When it comes to the BW , I would just leave her alone. You aren't her friend- friends don't hurt each other like this. She likely has a support system and she will be okay.
With respect to your husband...I would suggest that if you can do it, take a weekend away from home. Go somewhere quiet where you can be alone and really think all this through. Whatever decisions you make, it will be in your best interest to do that sort of introspection. Decide if your marriage is really where you want to be. Either way, if your husband sees you putting in hard work to move forward, it may lead to a better outcome, whether you remain married or divorce.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

You're not a terrible person

What constitutes a terrible person?
What kind of a person befriends her MM's wife and not in a superficial "How are you? I am fine, How are you?" sort of a way but in an in depth, close and share each other secrets, very best friend kind of a way. that is serious betrayal...
Is that the sign of a good person?

[magnolia18]

12 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

What constitutes a terrible person?
What kind of a person befriends her MM's wife and not in a superficial "How are you? I am fine, How are you?" sort of a way but in an in depth, close and share each other secrets, very best friend kind of a way. that is serious betrayal...
Is that the sign of a good person?

I am wondering...Is it wise to use the terms "good" and "bad" or "terrible" in the same way as "black" and "white"? Even the whitest of whites has shades of grey or blue and no black is entirely black. This is even more true for people. What the OP got involved in was certainly not right, she is the first not to think so. She knows she did wrong. She came here to tell her story and maybe get some clearer insight as to her motives and what she should do to cope with this mess

Edited September 30, 2020 by magnolia18
typos

[elaine567]

I get the shades of grey and obviously this is not equivalent to a serial killer type of bad, but there must be a bit of a cruel and twisted streak in anyone who inveigles themselves so far into a BS's life and marriage.
Yes all OWs are being unfair to the wife but there is a difference between distancing oneself as most OWs do, and  being right there up close and personal every step of the way... 

[Birdies]

I haven't been on here in years, but I just randomly signed on and this situation was VERY familiar to me (except for the intertwined families and kids).  I was married OW with a married OM, intertwined lives (we work together), and a sudden DDay.

- you could send your former friend a brief, apologetic email, but DO NOT make any excuses or justifications.  It probably won't make a difference.  She will probably hate you forever.  It would be best to just leave her alone though.

- your kids probably need to be told the truth, so they don't think they did something wrong

- if you don't feel desperate to save your marriage, it's probably best that it ends.  Infidelity is VERY hard to recover from, and you would need to be 110% committed to helping your husband heal for years.  I knew I wasn't ready for that, and I wasn't in love with my husband anymore.  We drew it out longer than it needed to be because I was afraid of hurting him further.  But it's best to be brutally honest with him right now and don't prolong the suffering.

- your MM sounds borderline sociopathic for enjoying having both of you together so much and being so brazen about it.  That isn't normal IMO.

- don't contact MM unless you want to keep blowing s*** up.

Be completely honest with your husband, and with your kids in an age-appropriate way.  This will get much uglier before it gets better.  Honesty will help you.  Good luck.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Birdies

[RebeccaR]

A lot here doesn’t make sense. Strangers and acquaintances noticed your “energy” but neither spouse did? He made this “careless mistake” that anyone in an affair would surely avoid? That flirty text exchange must have been pretty steamy to have constituted DDay. I am not criticizing or questioning you, but there seems more than you are telling us.

My guess is he’s a garden variety “cake eater”, given that he told you immediately he would never divorce (and he hoped you wouldn’t either). You, OTOH, wanted more, which is why you are now miserable. Maybe he was ready to end it/blow this up.

[mark clemson]

59 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

 but there must be a bit of a cruel and twisted streak in anyone who inveigles themselves so far into a BS's life and marriage.

Certainly this is a betrayal of the friendship as well as the husband. When I read the original post it seems they became friends first, the emotional attachment happened gradually, and she to a significant extent resisted going PA.

Also, while the affair was unknown/not recognized by the OBW, there was no pain actualized. You and I both sometimes suggest secrecy after an affair is fully ended for that very reason, no?

Although it certainly isn't taking the friend's feelings into account, this doesn't seem like deliberate cruelty, in the sense where the intent is to cause pain to the friend. IF there had been no Dday, it seems like it could have ended with no emotional pain for the OBW.

Maybe I just misunderstood you, but when you write "cruel and twisted streak" you make me think of a Nurse Ratched type. That's not the vibe I'm getting here, dunno. Do you feel differently, or am I misunderstanding your point?

[RebeccaR]

1 minute ago, mark clemson said:

Certainly this is a betrayal of the friendship as well as the husband. When I read the original post it seems they became friends first, the emotional attachment happened gradually, and she to a significant extent resisted going PA.

Also, while the affair was unknown/not recognized by the OBW, there was no pain actualized. You and I both sometimes suggest secrecy after an affair is fully ended for that very reason, no?

Although it certainly isn't taking the friend's feelings into account, this doesn't seem like deliberate cruelty, in the sense where the intent is to cause pain to the friend. IF there had been no Dday, it seems like it could have ended with no emotional pain for the OBW.

Maybe I just misunderstood you, but when you write "cruel and twisted streak" you make me think of a Nurse Ratched type. That's not the vibe I'm getting here, dunno. Do you feel differently, or am I misunderstanding your point?

Lack of empathy for a friend is the twisted part. In her defense she admitted she felt guilty around the friend. 

[mark clemson]

Fair enough.

[Bittersweetie]

I am a fWW who had a d-day. I read your post this morning and thought about it all day on how to respond. My first piece of advice is to tell you there is no easy or quick path out of this mess. You made choices that have consequences. How you handle those consequences will define you moving forward.

First: ask yourself, why did I think these choices were okay? What did I tell myself in order to make what I was doing okay? Because you were playing with the fire of not only your own marriage, but your friend's marriage, and your kids' friends. These things don't "just happen," it is a choice we make each time we continue. I could've stopped my affair many times. I didn't. That was on me.

Second: You need to decide whether you want to stay with your husband or not. Because if not, then don't waste each other's time on a reconciliation. However, right now your brain is probably so "messed up" (for lack of better words) with the affair and MM, making that decision will be difficult. You need to clear your head of MM and the affair in order to decide how to move forward with your husband. I'd suggest giving it six months of complete no contact with MM and focusing on your husband and family before making a decision. Now, your husband may decide himself to divorce you, and that is his right. 

Also, if you care about your husband, you need to be 100% truthful with him. I trickle-truthed my husband and it was a bad choice on top of all my bad choices. Your husband deserves the truth of his own life in order to make the best decision for himself for the future. Does that make sense? 

I agree with PP that you are not necessarily a bad person. However you are a person who made bad, hurtful choices that affected others. How are you going to act moving forward then? What kind of person do you want to be in this life? Someone who lies and cheats, or someone how lives honestly and authentically? Think about that then take the steps to make it happen. Good luck.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Bittersweetie

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Birdies said:

 your kids probably need to be told the truth, so they don't think they did something wrong

If I may, I think this is really important and needs to be closely considered. Your kids clearly know something has happened, because their friends are not coming around anymore and are unlikely to come into your home ever again. For lack of honest information, they will use their imaginations... and what a shame it would be for your children to blame themselves for the lack of contact with their friends. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, S2B said:

Someone feels guilty because they know they are causing harm but choose to continue to do that harm anyway. 

Indeed. And the fact that she was trying to distance herself from his wife tells us that she knew what they were doing was not good and was either trying to protect herself from the guilt and/or do the right thing (and that’s a relative term) by her friend. 

And while the world is full of shades of grey and there may be many reasons why an individual would find themselves in an extramarital affair, carrying on an intimate relationship (even if it is only emotional) with your close friend’s husband seems pretty darn black and white - as evidenced by the fall-out that has occurred when discovered. The loss of what have been close relationships, no contact between families, and the possibility of divorce for all involved seems to indicate that a line has clearly been crossed... that’s about as black and white as it gets.

Edited September 30, 2020 by BaileyB