His E-mail

[Sunset]

I think Hot Coco's last point was right, I think a lot of us (me included) are overly sensitive and don;t want to think of the selfishness.

 

Many didn't choose to fall in love with MM/commited man but a few of us did knowing very well we were in relationships and so were they.

 

Whilst we are all human, we do have to take some responsibility and be prepared to listen to someone telling us it isn't right.

 

Hot Coco in my opinion isn't bashing, if you want bashing girls hop over onto the infidelity forum and start a thread there but whhoooaaaahhh hold on tight it's a rough ride!!!!!

[Hot Coco]

Thanks so much Sunset. I appreciate that. And now you have me REALLY curious about that board. For some reason I chose this one to hang out in for the most part. But I could easily fit in over there (because of my actions)as well.

 

Pretty bad when you can "fit in" in more than one board on here!!!! That should tell me something!

 

I guess when I feel like I need a beating, I'll pop on over there. People have gotten a little too nice in here! ha ha...just kidding!

[floatinglotus]

Just wanted to vent/rant for a sec. Why do people automatically think you're "bashing" if you state an opinion that's different than others? I'm sorry but I just don't get that. I believe everything I've said. People should stop thinking a person is "bashing" them if they express a different view. As long as it's done in a respectful and not in a rude way, I don't see how it's bashing. I've never been rude or disrespectful to anyone on here.

 

I'm not attacking you, ERika. And I don't want you to feel bad for what you said. Really, don't worry about it. This was just something I wanted to get off my chest. I mean doesn't everyone here comment on things (in other threads) that they don't have DIRECT experience with.

 

I welcome all comments/viewpoints whether the person has had experience with the subject matter or not. I guess I would just weigh the viewpoints of the experienced people more but the others are still welcome.

 

I think we should all keep that in mind when we think about that before we tell people they're bashing.

 

How would you like it if you were attacked on other boards if you made a comment about something you don't have any experience with? You wouldn't like it. Because you might still have a legitimate viewpoint without having had that direct experience with the subject.

 

The reason is this Hot Coco, I was in a very awful situation some months ago and was contemplating suicide. I came to these boards when I was at my lowest. I needed advice and support from others who have been in a similar situation. Your supposed "tough love" would not have helped, in fact, it could easily tip someone over the edge. I know what I did was wrong but I didn't come here for someone whom I don't even know to ram that down my throat.

 

From what I've read, it's not others bashing you or your posts, it's you who have continually displayed an unfeeling, uncaring and highly judgemental stance that you can't seem to put a stop to. We don't need it here. There are other forums that would suit you much better.

 

Ever heard the saying, "don't kick a dog when it's down"?

[Confused Woman]

The wife has been calling me every since she got the letter on Friday, and today I finally answered. We had a very nice talk actually. She wasn't the least bit disrespectful or argumentative. She asked me why I sent her the letter. I told her it was to bring truth to the situation, because I had come to realize that MM had been lying to the both of us this entire time. She asked all the normal questions, how long have we been seeing eachother, why I began seeing him, what our relationship consisted of. She confirmed that he never told her that he was in love with me (she didn't know this until reading the letter) and how he down played our relationship, even though we talked of marriage and kids one day... What a fool I am, and what a fool she is. After speaking with her it became quite clear that no matter what he does to her or how many women he cheats with that she will remain with him. Even after all the horrible things he said about her in the e-mail. I wished her the best of luck in her marriage and assured her that I won't be involved with him anymore.

 

The difficult part is that we work together and seeing him today was very hard. Wife doesn't know this, I wanted to avoid any potential issues at work, I need my job.

[Hot Coco]

WOW! Floatinglotus...I'm bowled over by that display! Completely unfounded and untrue. Kick a dog when it's down, you say? That is ridiculous! I'm not saying anything on these boards that I haven't really said to myself! I'm sorry if some people are that sensitive. Skip over my posts from now on then because I'm not leaving. Perhaps you need to look for another forum where everyone "makes nice" ALL the time and tells each other what they want to hear. Is there even such a thing?

 

And haven't you had enough of people telling you what you want to hear? Like from your MM? Maybe it's good for us all to have a dose of the truth. I know it does ME good.

 

I'm sorry you were down so low that you were suicidal..I really am but not ALL of us are quite that fragile. If you don't my brand of truth put me on ignore or skip my posts. I've never been disrespectful or rude. I'm sorry if you think I am. Sorry, but I'm staying.

 

Good luck floatinglotus. I really wish you the best.

[floatinglotus]

WOW! Floatinglotus...I'm bowled over by that display! Completely unfounded and untrue. Kick a dog when it's down, you say? That is ridiculous! I'm not saying anything on these boards that I haven't really said to myself! I'm sorry if some people are that sensitive. Skip over my posts from now on then because I'm not leaving. Perhaps you need to look for another forum where everyone "makes nice" ALL the time and tells each other what they want to hear. Is there even such a thing?

 

And haven't you had enough of people telling you what you want to hear? Like from your MM? Maybe it's good for us all to have a dose of the truth. I know it does ME good.

 

I'm sorry you were down so low that you were suicidal..I really am but not ALL of us are quite that fragile. If you don't my brand of truth put me on ignore or skip my posts. I've never been disrespectful or rude. I'm sorry if you think I am. Sorry, but I'm staying.

 

Good luck floatinglotus. I really wish you the best.

 

Hot Coco, get a grip sweetie - and a life.

[erika2610]

Please let's not turn this into another post where everybody attacks each other..

[floatinglotus]

The wife has been calling me every since she got the letter on Friday, and today I finally answered. We had a very nice talk actually. She wasn't the least bit disrespectful or argumentative. She asked me why I sent her the letter. I told her it was to bring truth to the situation, because I had come to realize that MM had been lying to the both of us this entire time. She asked all the normal questions, how long have we been seeing eachother, why I began seeing him, what our relationship consisted of. She confirmed that he never told her that he was in love with me (she didn't know this until reading the letter) and how he down played our relationship, even though we talked of marriage and kids one day... What a fool I am, and what a fool she is. After speaking with her it became quite clear that no matter what he does to her or how many women he cheats with that she will remain with him. Even after all the horrible things he said about her in the e-mail. I wished her the best of luck in her marriage and assured her that I won't be involved with him anymore.

 

The difficult part is that we work together and seeing him today was very hard. Wife doesn't know this, I wanted to avoid any potential issues at work, I need my job.

 

Hi CW,

 

I feel sorry for the wife. It sounds as if she is truly hurting. Right now she would be in a state of denial and she needs to work through the hurt. I remember when everything started to go downhill in my relationship. At first there is that denial. You want to believe the man you're in love with - even though what they say is remarkably different from their actions. When you wake up, you realise how you've been had. I think that's what his wife will end up realising too.

 

Really try to avoid talking to her and distance yourself as much as you can and whatever you do, avoid the MM. He sounds like a confused and ultimately unhappy man who tried to have it both ways. You deserve much much better.

 

FL

[floatinglotus]

Please let's not turn this into another post where everybody attacks each other..

 

I've actually never been angered by anyone on here before. My first time so please forgive me! However, I find Hot Coco irritating to say the least and utterly pompous in her attitude. It will be the last time I respond to her meandering posts but at least I've had my say.

[newbby]

i think hotcoco that you dont realise that the way you are feeling about yourself is actually the way everyone feels about themselves.

now, when you finally came out with your situation you did not get bashed by anybody and this has allowed you to talk about it freely and come to terms with yourself and your guilt. it has not made you feel that it is okay to continue the a.

have a little more faith and trust in other people, that they also feel remourse. i feel that part of the addiction to mm comes about because we want to feel that what we did was for a good outcome and we feel even worse about ourselves and need his words of love and adoration even more. this is probably why when you read peoples threads they do seem primarily concerned with themselves. now you are in a pretty good life situation and yet still got addicted to a mm. imagine if your life circumstances were really not too good, you didnt have a loving husband, a nice home a cosy family set up. now see how the addiction might multiply? also the guilt you have said you feel is all for your husband, your family. have not once heard you say you feel any guilt to mm's wife etc...i am sure you do, because i have trust in you as a human being that you must do.

and saying that fl is fragile in an insulting way, well, maybe you are not as fragile, is it a huge character flaw to be fragile? she just told you that she felt suicidal, well where is YOUR compassion?

[Hot Coco]

I'm extremely compassionate but she's trying to censor me and I won't have it. I'm sorry if she thinks I'm pompous and arrogant. We don't have to like everyone's style. I certainly don't appreciate her style - telling me to post elsewhere.

 

I think I HAVE a grip floating. Do you? I'm glad you're backing off. Like I said, don't read my posts if they annoy you. I won't read yours.

 

Newbbie, I did not state anything to fl in an insulting way. She has NO basis for her attacks on me which SHE started. I'm not highly judgmental at all as she claimed. I just express my viewpoints in a direct way. Some people have a problem with that and I understand that. But others don't. I myself appreciate a little honesty on these boards.

 

We're not going to like everything that everyone says all the time. I mean be realistic. Why would you let the posts you don't like get to you in that way?

[Hot Coco]

And Newbby, all I can say about your post is that you clearly don't "get" me. Hey, that's ok. I'm not going to understand everyone on here either. Not everyone is the same. I appreciate different viewpoints even when I don't agree with them.

[Confused Woman]

Yesterday MM called me in the morning then sent me this e-mail. It was the first contact we've had since me sending the e-mail to his wife.

 

"Thanks for at least responding and giving me a chance to express what I need to say to you. I just ask for you not to be Hasty.. Please keep this between us.

 

I'm hurt you feel the way you do. I can admit to not telling her how I really felt about you. I told you the reason why I didn't tell her.. The vibe (a strong one) I got from you was you were still keeping your fiancé close as to where I felt you could not fully detach from him. So when we argued and you told me that he keeps calling you asking could he come back. In my mind I just wondered why would a man get tossed from his home for another man and still want to come back. The only way is if he wasn't told the full story. You told me once right after I moved in that you just wanted to be with a man who could love you the way you wanted to be loved. I felt and still FEEL I AM THAT PERSON. You also said you would never do anything to hurt him. So with that said telling him about us would do just that HURT HIM. So here we are you didn't tell him you were in LOVE with ME and I didn't tell my wife I was in LOVE with YOU. The commitment I gave you is the commitment I felt felt I was getting from you. This is why I suggested the apartment. I felt at least there you could have time to let him go and I could fully let her go and we could then be untied together and build our relationship. I still thank this is possible. I know I can detach myself from her My concern was if you would be able to detach from your fiancé the man you loved for 8 years. The only friend or best friend you had. My thought has always been If you were that close how could you let him go.

 

She now knows all about us. Not everything we did, but our relationship is now in the open. About the letter you decided to send yes I didn't admit to everything because I lost communication with you. I wasn't sure what you were trying to do. If I knew we had a chance I probably would have said everything on my mind and admitted everything. I guess I was trying not to hurt her feelings and at the same time not get kicked out of the house.

 

I was coming back to you that SATURDAY but the call you Took from your Fiancé turned me to the door. There I was trying to talk and clear my thoughts of how everything got out of hand and all you wanted to do is send me out to get food so you could clear the air or whatever you had to do. It was and is scary thinking about being homeless wondering where your going to sleep the night being out on the streets. You promised me before moving in that you would never do that to me. I begged you not to toss me out I apologized for not calling you I knew what you had to offer and I didn't want to lose that. All I wanted and needed was my kids and you and those damn cats..

 

I cant be mad at you. I Love you and I still want to be with. You felt I lied and i cant commit but like i said i feel i can.. If you want 100% you have to give 100% and i know we are both scared but without some sort of trust we were Doomed as you once put it. Please know I'm truly truly sorry for putting you through this i never meant to hurt you i never meant to waste your time i guess i was just being stubborn because of the things i felt. I was scared of losing my kids and that just would'nt be good. Starting over with a new person is scary but a part of me wasnt sure on your full thoughts and doings and a little bit of secrecy. That's why i didnt unpack everything i wasnt sure of your true feeling on me compared to your fiance'.. I had questions still roaming like who actually picked you up from the airport. who did you got to the movies with to see the fantatic four. I just want to clear the air if possible.

 

You told her she did'nt sound as bad as i made her out to be. My wifes spirt was lifted because she got saved again. She rededicated herself to the church and the word of God. This changed her demeanor and attitude. However this still doesnt change the fact of how i feel. she says i need to give she and i a chance to work and i have to let you go. i have to open my heart to her and not to you. If there is no way back to and you clearly want me to leave you alone i will.. It will be hard but i can do that IF THAT IS TRULY WHAT YOU WANT.

 

If you feel you need to leave me behind Just know that I Love you very much.."

 

To be quite honest I have no idea what he's actually saying. To me he still sounds very confused and wishy washy.

[Confused Woman]

This was the e-mail that I sent him back in response.

 

"Ha Ha you're very funny. So now you want me to tell you if we have a chance, if not you're staying with you're wife and you're going to "give it a chance". Too bad you still don't have a clue what you really want... You told me that you were unhappy for the better part of your marriage and was looking for a way out for a long time. But now its a possibility for you two to make it work??? If you don't know if you want your marriage by now... too bad for you. I think you need to get a grip. I told you a long time ago that the back and forth game between me and your wife is something I would not play. I told you not to even leave if there was a chance for you to go back, you assured me there was no chance and that your marriage was over. Looks like you say a lot of things and break your word. You say you love me, you have no idea what love is. Love is actions not words. If you loved me you wouldn't be back living with her and laying in her bed every night. Love would not allow you to do that. You have no clue what love is and the love you've shown me thus far- you can keep. Stay with your wife."

 

A part of me can't believe I actually sent him that because I do still love him. But the other part feels like maybe I really do need to let him go if he was able to go back to his wife and has been back with her for like two weeks today... I just don't know...

[LucreziaBorgia]

I Love you and I still want to be with you.

 

There is only one answer to this:

 

As soon as you are divorced, living on your own and are free to be with me, you can be. Otherwise, get out of my life and stay out. End of discussion.

 

 

I'm sure sending that message to him felt good, but understand that by doing so - you have left the door open for him. He will email you back, and eventually he will have such a strong rebuttal that he will "prove" to you, and "convince" you that his love for you is real. He may even trick you into actually believing it. He will read that email and think one thing and one thing only... "she wants me to convince her otherwise". And you know what? He'll do it, eventually because some part of you will allow that to happen.

 

How to prevent that?

 

If he emails you again, do not reply back - send the email directly to his wife. Again. Continue to do this until he simply stops contacting you. This guy is like some mangy stray who comes and goes between houses. He needs a firm ass whipping with a very hard stick - and that will only happen if you continue to keep kicking his ass out every time he tries to slink back in. Sending the email to the W, along with full 'no contact' will send a loud and clear message to him about how serious you are about this. It lets him know that he shut the door by staying married, and you fully intend to keep it shut to him.

[Art_Critic]

This was the e-mail that I sent him back in response.

 

I thought you told his wife that you would have no more contact with him ?

 

WTF ???? another OW that can't get enough of the drama that a MM spews

[whichwayisup]

another OW that can't get enough of the drama that a MM spews

Which is why many OW are addicted to the high intense feelings, good and bad it brings on. The unnecessary pain, rollercoaster ride.

 

At the end of the day, whether he is inlove with you or not, he is MARRIED and has a wife. Any other relationship that ends, ends. Final. No contact. Seems for OW they can't understand the concept of NC and healing...

 

Go on with your life, be happy and forget him. He has to work on his life with his wife. He obviously is confused, and needs time to sort through his emotions before getting his marriage on track again.

 

Don't write him anymore, or take a call from him. Do NC.

[wahaha1]

Totally agree with Art Critic. NC is the key to end this drama (tragedy indeed). This story is getting so dramatic and I feel sorry for these three people (feel especially bad for the W).

[newbby]

wwiu and art critic, imagine if you are in love with somebody and they are saying these kind of words to you constantly. it is not so easy as nc with somebody who clearly states they do not want to be with you. think about it. its all black and white to you, but not so when you are stuck in it. nc is of course the way to go, difficult as it is, and thats excellent advice from lb for how to handle him.

[Art_Critic]

its all black and white to you, but not so when you are stuck in it. nc is of course the way to go, difficult as it is, and thats excellent advice from lb for how to handle him.

 

You are right newbby.. But I always move to the black/white advice because posters a lot of the time are looking for someone to give them advice that soothes their feelings rather than advice that will fix the issue..

 

I have always felt that moving into the gray area with advice tends to give the OP'ers ammo to let the drama continue rather than end.

 

So I post in more of a matter of fact way so they don't use my advice and do something that would hinder their healing

[whichwayisup]

wwiu and art critic, imagine if you are in love with somebody and they are saying these kind of words to you constantly. it is not so easy as nc with somebody who clearly states they do not want to be with you. think about it. its all black and white to you, but not so when you are stuck in it. nc is of course the way to go, difficult as it is, and thats excellent advice from lb for how to handle him.

 

But look at it this way. The words are saying "I love you" but the actions that follow don't. Yes, NC is difficult and painful as hell, but by doing that it gives the person doing NC control. It's not about the other person, it's about self preservation, healing and getting over the person who isn't good for, as much as you love them...

 

There has to be gray, not just black and white. When one is in a situation like that ofcourse that person only see's things a certain way - They can't be objective and see the whole picture. That's why hearing others advice hopefully opens some doors, some choices and some understanding, to be abit more objective.

[newbby]

i think there is some misunderstanding about the more sympathetic resonses of posters in here. sympathetic does not mean in agreement with the relationship, and i certainly dont get that from ANY of the ow posting in here.

i do agree with you both that there should be nc, most definetly, but i think saying another one suckered, and such things doesnt really give the kick start to self confidence required to jump out of the relationship.