His relationships with his ex(s)

[tinkerbell16]

Need advise from both men and women here.  Recently engaged to a nice, caring, attentive guy.  The issue is that he has and maintains relationships with several of his exes.  Fine, right?  That on the surface seems like a healthy thing and individually each scenario would be alright but I am starting to question the reason he feels the need to keep relationships.  Here are the past relationships he maintains:

EX WIFE -  he was married for 9 years and has two kids with her that he raised on his own without her (the kids are adults now).  It is my understanding his ex is a mess... even lost custody of the kids to him for being unfit.  Yet, he feels it is being "nice" to see her, keep in contact and visits with her family still.  They have been divorced for years.   He said he keeps contact in hopes that it will help her get healthy eventually.  Mind you the two kids are adults so there isn't any co parenting happening  nor ever happened as she has mostly been out of the picture in terms of raising the two kids.  She is currently in a relationship however her relationships historically have been fleeting.  He is encouraging me to become friends with her because it would be "the nice thing to do".  Again, their kids are adults.   

FIRST LOVE -  he dated her for several years, middle school to college, she broke up with him.  He visits her and her husband when he flies back home.  All good... except when he took me to meet her and her husband it was awful.  Her husband was nice... she was a mess.  She acted strange and barely made eye contact with me.  Then was openly flirting with my fiance and being rude to me, cutting me off in sentences, fact checking me... this is a grown woman... it was odd as hell and he said "he has never seen her act like that".  It was a group setting and every one at the table noticed and was uncomfortable.  It has been (supposedly) been 20+ years so since the dated and he said she didn't even act like that when he introduced his ex wife to her.  When he asked her about her odd behavior she said she was "intimidated" by me.  That I am "successful, beautiful" and she was feeling insecure around me.  What the hell??  What would any of this matter if she didn't still have feelings for him and WHY would she have feelings for him still if they split decades ago?  Makes no sense... and to top it off she is MARRIED and has been for years.  Side note... her husband travels all the time so of course it takes trust on my part to know when he visits his home town he is not seeing her.

EX Girlfriend -  whom he dated shortly after he divorced for several years.  Break up reason is fuzzy he describes it as "they just didn't work out" but they are friendly and he speaks kindly of her.  They were serious, kids met, parents met, they traveled together and here is the kicker...he bought her a house that she has been "renting" from him since they split  (about 8 years ago) at about half the going rental rate in the area.  Again, when asked his reply is "to be nice".  He says it is simply a business transaction now.  My point is that if it is just business she should be paying market rate.

His Ex FWB -  they still work together.  "Dated" for few years off and on.  He said he was never serious about her but she is a "nice, smart, attractive" lady.  He doesn't mention her much and said because it was were basically friends with benefits that there was no breakup.  He just told her when we started dating that they are "off" again.   He says he believes she knows we are now engaged due to him telling others in the work place (I have met some of his other co workers).  They still work together which is fun to manage in my brain (sarcasm).

And then there are the Orbiters

Orbiter #1  - He had a long term close female friend whom he says he never dated.  She lives in another state.  They talk on the phone for hours.

Orbiter #2 - Local female friend.  She is married, her son is friends with his son, they have dinner together sometimes, sometimes with the husband, sometimes not.

Again, he is a nice guy,  everyone likes him.  I am a confident, successful woman so any of these "relationships" individually would be fine.  I think now that we are engaged I am feeling buried by the weight of all of them an re evaluating if these relationships are acceptable for me.

I have only a few exes (I was married a long time).   I do not maintain any contact with them.  In fact, the few times any of them tried to contact me I quickly found out it was to try to get back with me.  This is why I don't maintain contact. 

I would love help sorting if I am being unreasonable here... or is this just whack.  

 

 

[Crazelnut]

Nope. Whole lotta nope. Those would be deal breakers for me. Your fiance is a codependent attention whore. He loves having these admiring women orbiting around him. You are being completely reasonable to ask him to stop all of it. I suspect he won't -- the dopamine hit is too great. 

Seriously, talking on the phone to another woman for hours?? Girl, put your shoes on because you need to WALK. 

[schlumpy]

You're not married yet and this is what is going through your head? What about after?

At this point you still have control of your own destiny. You know what you want. You clearly stated it and now is the time to set your boundaries with him.

In my opinion you see his "acts of niceness" as emotional connections. His ex first love is a prime example. I also see it that way. He has a different mindset about relationships then you do. You want to close the circle with you and him and he wants to close it around you and whomever he was with in the past.

You will always hesitate when married to push for what you what because it will feel like he has other options. Too demand, criticisms or harsh words and he's gone. Those doors need to be shut for you to feel safe. 

Don't let him gaslight you. If you can't accept it then that's the bottom line. There is nothing wrong with you that a more compatible fiancee' would not fix.

You will most likely be on Xanax if you don't let him know how much this bothers you. Now is the time to act. If wait until a few years have gone by with you building a pool resentment, it's not going to end well.

[vla1120]

Having a friendly relationship with the mother of his children, and her family, is a good thing. My daughters are grown. My ex-husband's girlfriend is so controlling and threatened by me that he is not allowed to speak to me or have anything to do with me, even when there was a health issue with our middle child. I blame him, so in my opinion, it's good that your fiance maintains a relationship with the mother of his children. 

As for the rest of them? Either your guy is just an absolute sweetheart and nice guy (best case scenario), or maybe he likes the female attention, or (worst case scenario) maybe he keeps all these women waiting in the wings, knowing he can "have" any of them when he wants. The fact that his ex you visited was treating you in that manner would raise some red flags for me (as it did you), but that seems to be her problem, not his (though once he is aware of this, he should protect you and your relationship first.)

I am reminded of a scene from "The Breakfast Club", when Judd Nelson empties Molly Ringwald's purse and says "Why do you have so much stuff in your purse?" She replies "I guess I never throw anything away." Minutes later, she notices all the pictures of his ex-girlfriends in his wallet and asks him about it. He responds "I guess I never throw anything away."  I'm paraphrasing, here, but I did have a friend years ago who stayed in contact with every one of his exes just because he didn't like to cut off relationships with people. 

You have to go with your gut instinct and decide whether this is okay with you. It seems as though you are confident and self-assured enough to be with him in this situation. When the red flags pop up, talk to him about them. I would think he would be even more considerate of your feelings and concerns than he would be these other women, if push comes to shove. 

 

[vla1120]

7 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

You want to close the circle with you and him and he wants to close it around you and whomever he was with in the past.

This is actually a brilliant statement. You have to decide whether you want to share him with all these women.

[Fletch Lives]

Wow, this guy has issues and can't let go of his exes! I would not recommend marriage.

Nice guy my a$$....... he has a bunch of backup women.

[d0nnivain]

None of this is new.  You were aware of all this before you got engaged.  That ring on your finger does not change his behavior.  Since this has been an on-going problem, why did you accept the proposal? 

At this point you do need to speak up.  You have to confess that all these continuing interactions make you uncomfortable, you are jealous & you'd like input from him about how you two can work together to make you feel more special.  After all these years these women aren't going away & I bet he wants to invite them all to your wedding.  😲  

The only one I can offer concrete advice about is the EX-W.  No matter how old his adult children may be, she is their mother.  Out of respect & love for them he will always be kind to her.  Accept that but explain that you can't be her friend, that's a bridge too far for you but that you understand that he loves his children so he will always be kind to her.  I dated a divorced guy with a teenaged son.  The son wanted me to be friends with his mom & I had to explain to him that I couldn't.  I don't think he really understood at the time.  The kid & I were at a film festival where I was helping him fulfill his dream to break into acting.   A woman we just met said to him that he has a really wonderful mom who is blah. blah, blah complementary to me.  The kid didn't know what to do because he realized this woman thought I was mom.  I smiled & said "yes, his mom is all those things but I'm not mom."  Although I thanked her for thinking that I could have had a hand in raising such a wonderful young man.  (his mom was a psycho IMO but I'd never say that to the kid).  Anyway he beamed & looked so grateful to me.  Years later he told me that was the day he understood what class & grace were.  

[Wiseman2]

Why does he talk to you so much about all these exes/women and worse, what you to be friends with them? Dating is not social work and he should not be constantly trying to fix his stable of broken "messed up" female admirers.

This sounds like he fancies himself some sort of hero of women-at-large. Does he have a huge ego? Do his kids even talk to him? Why isn't he encouraging a relationship with them rather than these useless exes? 

However he is obviously not a hero to whoever he is with (including you). Be careful about anyone who describes all their exes as train wrecks.

Edited October 13, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Ruby Slippers]

God, no. I never date anybody who's friends with exes. I don't stay friends with exes, either. Way too messy and just not something I'm interested in whatsoever.

[elaine567]

Does he have any male buddies?

[Crazelnut]

6 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Does he have any male buddies?

Good question.

[hippychick3]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

God, no. I never date anybody who's friends with exes. I don't stay friends with exes, either. Way too messy and just not something I'm interested in whatsoever.

This. 
 

No way would I date a guy who holds on to his exes and doesn’t have appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex. That’s a whole lot of energy and time given to other women that should be given to YOU. 

[elaine567]

You said in another thread you spent half your life with a gaslighting, lying, cheater.
You seem to have found another...

[tinkerbell16]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Does he have any male buddies?

Yes, many.  He has a good friend (male and female) base

[tinkerbell16]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why does he talk to you so much about all these exes/women and worse, what you to be friends with them? Dating is not social work and he should not be constantly trying to fix his stable of broken "messed up" female admirers.

This sounds like he fancies himself some sort of hero of women-at-large. Does he have a huge ego? Do his kids even talk to him? Why isn't he encouraging a relationship with them rather than these useless exes? 

However he is obviously not a hero to whoever he is with (including you). Be careful about anyone who describes all their exes as train wrecks.

His ex wife speaks very highly of him.  Actually told me he is a great guy,, congratulations on our engagement and could not say enough good things about him when we met (to her admission she destroyed their marriage).  He is actually a nice guy.  I had my share of not so nice guys so this was a requirement but seems the pendulum has swung severely to the other side... maybe too nice, can't cut anyone off.

[lana-banana]

This is just way out of hand. Being friends with exes can be fine and healthy, to a point, and the ex-FWB seems like a nonissue. But having hours-long conversations and one-on-one dinners? Visiting his first love every time he's in her town?!? No freakin' way. This guy isn't a drama magnet, he's a drama feeder. He is absolutely encouraging and sustaining all of this, and I'm certain there's a lot going on you don't know about yet. If he's behaving like this even after you're engaged you cannot expect it to get any better. I would cut and run---emphasis on run.

[MsJayne]

There's nothing wrong with being on good terms with people from your past, but there is absolutely no need to maintain ongoing relationships with every person you ever dated plus a few other meaningless attachments. I'm friends with a number of my old boyfriends, but contact is limited because, 1. They have partners and I respect their relationships, and 2. I don't need attention from ex-boyfriends because, well, the clue is in the 'ex' bit. The only one he needs to keep sweet with is his ex-wife, and that's only because they have kids and there will be family events, etc, in the future that will be much smoother if they have an amicable relationship. As for visiting the First Love every time he's in town - if I was the First Love I'd just be embarrassed that this dude wouldn't take the hint and grow up and move on. Don't even start me on the Orbiters. 

Your guy needs to either grow up and stop feeding his ego with female attention, or admit that he's so needy for attention that he's better off single. Would he tolerate you hanging out with, or spending hours on the 'phone with, a bunch of boy pals who are peripheral and meaningless to your life? Something else you should keep in mind is that this behaviour, encouraging the attention of several other women and rubbing your nose in it, is typical of someone who is trying to elicit a jealous reaction from their partner.  You've got it all going on, (First Love is jealous of you - positively green!), so you might find that his behaviour is actually the result of him feeling inadequate in the relationship. 

[neowulf]

The question here is more about where you fit on the totem pole.

It sounds to be like you're being made to feel like you're competing for his attention from these other women.

That's not ok.  You need to feel secure of your place in his life.

I'm "friendly" with a couple of my ex's, but that doesn't mean we catch up every Sunday for 4 hours to talk shop.

My partner is my priority.  Are you sure your his?

[ExpatInItaly]

He likes feeling desired and needed by all these women, OP. 

His children's mother, I can understand wanting to maintain a healthy relationship and I would not see an issue with how they interact. All the others? No, that wouldn't work for me at all. It speaks to boundaries that don't coincide with my own, and would not be compatible with my view and expectations in a partner. 

The problem now is that you've tolerated it so long, it's going to be hard to "un-do", so to speak. But you do need to speak up and not be afraid to assert yourself if this is making you uncomfortable. You might not like the response you get, but then you'll have a big decision to make. 

[tinkerbell16]

4 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

He likes feeling desired and needed by all these women, OP. 

His children's mother, I can understand wanting to maintain a healthy relationship and I would not see an issue with how they interact. All the others? No, that wouldn't work for me at all. It speaks to boundaries that don't coincide with my own, and would not be compatible with my view and expectations in a partner. 

The problem now is that you've tolerated it so long, it's going to be hard to "un-do", so to speak. But you do need to speak up and not be afraid to assert yourself if this is making you uncomfortable. You might not like the response you get, but then you'll have a big decision to make. 

Thats where it gets tricky.  I have spoken up and on every occasion he has made accommodations for me.  The ex wife I told him I completely understand he needs to maintain that relationship for obvious reasons (the kids) and I will nice with her (zhe is pleasant) but I am not going out of my way to establish a friendship with her (weird) ie meeting for lunch and hanging out which is what he was suggesting until I said not interested.

His first love, he called her out on her odd behavior around me hence her response saying she was feeling insecure around me..

The ex girlfriend he said he will ask her to move from the house he bought her.

The phone pal he re assured me he never dated her and he just enjoyed her crazy stories.

He told me he doesn't interact with his FWB at work, they see each other at work but it is business only.

The friend that is married that he goes to dinner with he said he has stopped doing this because it made me uncomfortable.

That's why I am questioning if I am be unreasonable.  Also I hate that I even had to say something about all if these situations to him.  Makes me feel like the naggy jealous fiance.  At every stop he has made changes.  My issue is that he has them in the first place.  Who doesn't like attention?  But in his case I think these relationships scratch his hero savior complex and now that he will be missing this as I am definitely not one that needs to be saved, fixed, supported and not one to sit home wondering when he will call next.... which ironically, after his dating history with girls that needed saving, he said is what he was looking for.  I am the opposite of his past.  

Considering my past with a gaslighting cheater I worry I am overly understanding or being paranoid considering my past.

99.9% of him is amazing.  Its just this part that requires a TON of trust that I am stuck on.  

[Wiseman2]

He seems to enjoy being everyone's hero, but yours. If he is 99% wonderful, you have a lot of reflecting to do.

Sure he's "made changes at every stop". The question is do you like being put in that position and do you like him suggesting you befriend all his other fans?

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, tinkerbell16 said:

99.9% of him is amazing.  Its just this part that requires a TON of trust that I am stuck on.  

99.9 percent amazing? Few couples can claim that, so I suggest you hold your nose, take the plunge and accept that he will be bringing home stray puppies now and then.

My wife is 100 percent perfect. I'm afraid it's me that drags down the percentage.🙂

[tinkerbell16]

53 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

99.9 percent amazing? Few couples can claim that, so I suggest you hold your nose, take the plunge and accept that he will be bringing home stray puppies now and then.

My wife is 100 percent perfect. I'm afraid it's me that drags down the percentage.🙂

Lol... assuming you are male -  does this seem acceptable given he makes accommodations?  Or do I have a real concern considering before me his boundaries were what they (where)?

[tinkerbell16]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

He seems to enjoy being everyone's hero, but yours. If he is 99% wonderful, you have a lot of reflecting to do.

Sure he's "made changes at every stop". The question is do you like being put in that position and do you like him suggesting you befriend all his other fans?

I do not.  Exactly my point.  His perspective is there is no problem because he makes changes when I ask.  My perspective is he has boundary issues or savior complex (that he can't scratch with me) and I don't like having to "police" him nor would I put him in these positions.  He sees problem(s) solved and I see a chronic condition.