Infidelity, the unfaithful side

[Loneheart]

For anyone who has been the cheater in the relationship. Whats worked for you? What hasn't? Is there hope? Am I really doing all I can to fix this? I'm so lost I just don't know what to do and I feel a million emotions. 

[schlumpy]

I've never listened to it or read it myself but I do see it recommended frequently.

How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair

A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful

By: Linda J. MacDonald

Look it up at the library.

[Beentheretoooften]

We’re you caught?

[Loneheart]

On 10/15/2020 at 10:28 PM, Beentheretoooften said:

We’re you caught?

Yes, but it wasn't ever physical and it really wasn't emotional either. I really dont know exactly what it was. Its very confusing.

[Wiseman2]

You're already in marriage counseling. What do they recommend and are both of you doing the suggested things?

At some point your "now husband" has to stop going through your things and stop policing and beating you up over it.

You need to decide. Do you want to be a prisoner or a wife? It may be best to consider separation/divorce. 

You don't love him and he doesn't trust you.

[Fletch Lives]

Some spouses get over it, some don't, it's a crap shoot. I guess you'll find out. Even if they do get over it, they will be in a foul mood for at least a year. I recommend counseling.

I also recommend people not cheat in the first place, if they want to stay together. A lot of people think they can get away with it, but most are caught.

[EPC82]

Perhaps you kept your friendships with other men a secret because you knew that your husband would not like it? Is he overtly jealous all the time about all men in relation to you? 

I'm only wondering if his behaviour is the driving force behind your secretive nature in platonic friendships with men. Now you are being made to feel that you've been unfaithful because of the secrecy, but the secrecy was actually born somewhere else?

It seems to me that you weren't trying to get back with your ex or start an affair with your co-worker. You are just capable of having friendships with men. No?

Another question...(and I apologize if you have already stated this)...did you cheat on your ex husband with your current husband? 

[usa1ah]

She was in contact with her ex that her husband said he would not tolerate. She hid it from him to keep him from breaking up with her. 
 

It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with being platonic or not. 

[EPC82]

1 hour ago, usa1ah said:

She was in contact with her ex that her husband said he would not tolerate. She hid it from him to keep him from breaking up with her. 
 

It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with being platonic or not. 

If the relationship between her and her ex was entirely platonic than that definitely should have played a role. Men can't just march around telling women who they can and cannot talk to. 

I can't help but wonder if the op wasn't managing her new man's jealousy. Its worth considering. Men can be possessive and for reasons that I can't grasp woman seem to see this as romantic and protective.

[scotchnstout]

18 minutes ago, EPC82 said:

If the relationship between her and her ex was entirely platonic than that definitely should have played a role. Men can't just march around telling women who they can and cannot talk to. 

I can't help but wonder if the op wasn't managing her new man's jealousy. Its worth considering. Men can be possessive and for reasons that I can't grasp woman seem to see this as romantic and protective.

So it's her husband's fault she lied.

[EPC82]

4 minutes ago, scotchnstout said:

 

Jeepers...I'm not implying that its his fault. I'm asking a bigger picture question...a question not yet answered by the OP. 

People lie! That doesn't equal adultery. 

To me it looks like he doesn't trust her. Either there are elements that we aren't aware of or he (might) have unhealthy jealousy issues. 

[usa1ah]

23 minutes ago, EPC82 said:

If the relationship between her and her ex was entirely platonic than that definitely should have played a role. Men can't just march around telling women who they can and cannot talk to. 

I can't help but wonder if the op wasn't managing her new man's jealousy. Its worth considering. Men can be possessive and for reasons that I can't grasp woman seem to see this as romantic and protective.

If you even read paw’s first post, you would know that her then boyfriend caught her talking with her ex. This was when they were dating. He told her that it was either her ex or him. Most men and women both would not be ok with their SO talking with their ex. She told her now husband that she would cut communication with her ex. She didn’t, she then hid another friendship with a coworker from her husband after this. 
 

This has nothing to do with a jealous boyfriend/husband. This has everything to do with paws lying to her bf and then husband. A boyfriend that would have broken up with her if he knew she was still talking with her ex. 

[EPC82]

My bad you'll. You loveshack posters have me convinced. Life is in fact black and white and definitely not worth looking at issues from less obvious perspective and asking questions. 👍

[mark clemson]

I think it is a fair question whether the boundaries (that were indeed crossed) were ever reasonable ones in the first place.

For example, my wife has phone conversations with a work colleague. I know the guy from a few work events and I know he now works from home for the foreseeable future. VERY low chance of any PA occurring whatsoever.

I'm not a "trust no matter what" guy, so I did eavesdrop on a few of the conversations. It was professional stuff and work gossip. Nothing lovey-dovey whatsoever.

My wife never hid these phone conversations from me because she never felt she needed to. I'm not so worried about things like this that she would feel any need to hide them in the first place.

I guess I would question why OP felt the need to hide the conversations (with the co-worker, not the ex) at all. If they were "not allowed", that seems overly controlling to me.

It seems like in many marriages a wife should feel free to just have the friend and let the husband know and have the phone conversations. Openness and honesty about it. That didn't happen here - is it because there was an "affair" even though she felt no attraction? Or because she felt her husband wouldn't accept a reasonable request to have a friend?

While it's not the ex's fault that she lied, it's also true that boundaries that don't really make sense to begin with are very likely to get crossed sooner or later. I wasn't there, so I may be wrong, but I don't think it (the second "incident" at least) has nothing to do with a jealous now-Husband. I think the boundaries that were either made or implied in the marriage weren't actually sensible ones. I could always be wrong about that, I suppose.

 

Note: for the record: 1) it seems like OP should have simply let the husband know about the friend/phone conversations and 2) the ex specifically being off limits to extended conversations I DO get, so that one's on OP IMO.

Edited October 22, 2020 by mark clemson

[usa1ah]

5 hours ago, EPC82 said:

My bad you'll. You loveshack posters have me convinced. Life is in fact black and white and definitely not worth looking at issues from less obvious perspective and asking questions. 👍

Most men see the relationship in black or white. We don’t tolerate being lied to very well. Lying breaks trust, that is all we have to go on. We start thinking if she would lie about the little things, what’s to keep her from lying about the big things. 
 

 

[DKT3]

5 hours ago, EPC82 said:

My bad you'll. You loveshack posters have me convinced. Life is in fact black and white and definitely not worth looking at issues from less obvious perspective and asking questions. 👍

Life is pretty black and white when it comes to how you treat people.  Her marriage is based on some dishonesty that if were known would likely have changes the course.

 

[DKT3]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

I think it is a fair question whether the boundaries (that were indeed crossed) were ever reasonable ones in the first place.

For example, my wife has phone conversations with a work colleague. I know the guy from a few work events and I know he now works from home for the foreseeable future. VERY low chance of any PA occurring whatsoever.

I'm not a "trust no matter what" guy, so I did eavesdrop on a few of the conversations. It was professional stuff and work gossip. Nothing lovey-dovey whatsoever.

My wife never hid these phone conversations from me because she never felt she needed to. I'm not so worried about things like this that she would feel any need to hide them in the first place.

I guess I would question why OP felt the need to hide the conversations (with the co-worker, not the ex) at all. If they were "not allowed", that seems overly controlling to me.

It seems like in many marriages a wife should feel free to just have the friend and let the husband know and have the phone conversations. Openness and honesty about it. That didn't happen here - is it because there was an "affair" even though she felt no attraction? Or because she felt her husband wouldn't accept a reasonable request to have a friend?

While it's not the ex's fault that she lied, it's also true that boundaries that don't really make sense to begin with are very likely to get crossed sooner or later. I wasn't there, so I may be wrong, but I don't think it (the second "incident" at least) has nothing to do with a jealous now-Husband. I think the boundaries that were either made or implied in the marriage weren't actually sensible ones. I could always be wrong about that, I suppose.

 

Note: for the record: 1) it seems like OP should have simply let the husband know about the friend/phone conversations and 2) the ex specifically being off limits to extended conversations I DO get, so that one's on OP IMO.

Mark you wrote the key phrase here "my wife never hides the conversation" 

People don't tend to hide things that are of no consequence 

[mark clemson]

That is a fair point, particularly under normal circumstances. I guess having your husband be a BH is not necessarily normal circumstances. IF my impression that her husband had implicit rules that she couldn't have friendships with men (even platonic ones) is correct, then that would have forced her to either hide the friendship or end up not having it. She chose to hide it, and the results are as we see.

Of course, there are usually options like have other, female friends instead or have the guy as a friend but only speak at work (so less of a friendship) that also could have worked. OP could have tried those out, but instead did what she did, with the results she's posted about, unfortunately.

Generally, choosing between a friend and a spouse, it's wise to choose the spouse IMO, since otherwise you're damaging the marriage to at least some extent.

C'est la vie...

[DKT3]

I don't believe he had an issue with men in general,  it was her ex that he had issues with.  But she still hide several other male relationships.  

By piecing her story together,  it appears that she cheated on her ex with her current husband,  so the wayward behavior is part of it. Continuing that behavior would be her hiding male relationships.  It seems more often then not,  especially on the pages here, the go to when women behave poorly is somehow because of something that the man is doing that creates the need. Some women are simply not good people,  just as many as men. 

[mark clemson]

I guess. The claim here is that this was just a friendship, no attraction. So it seems like there would be nothing to actually hide, if everyone was behaving rationally (and that goes for both of them). Perhaps OP can chime in to clarify.

@4paws you seem to be on a major guilt trip in the other thread, so perhaps there was indeed more to this than mere friendship, or ??  Why did you feel the need to hide it from your husband?

[DKT3]

Yeah, it seemed to be an emotional element there. Not necessarily romantic.  With the older guy, im not sure why with the ex.

[Acacia98]

12 hours ago, EPC82 said:

To me it looks like he doesn't trust her. Either there are elements that we aren't aware of or he (might) have unhealthy jealousy issues. 

There are elements not mentioned in this particular thread but mentioned elsewhere that explain why people are seeing things in such seemingly rigid terms. 

[Zona]

On 10/22/2020 at 10:53 AM, EPC82 said:

Men can't just march around telling women who they can and cannot talk to. 

Maybe not, but they can chose whether or not they want to stay married to someone that lied to them repeatedly. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Zona

[EPC82]

2 hours ago, Zona said:

Maybe not, but they can chose whether or not they want to stay married to someone that lied to them repeatedly. 

Fair enough. 

I know that i wouldn't want to married to a man that dictated to me who I am allowed to friend with. 

I have an ex husband. I spent 15 years of my life with him. From my perspective, maintaining a friendship with him is a way of my recognizing those years as valid rather than an entire waste of time. No future partner of mine will tell me that I can't remain friends with him. 

She lied. Bad choice. Perhaps the right choice would have been to tell her new man that he doesn't get to make those choices for her. But! A precedent was set and more lying followed. 

Again...op hasn't set me straight so this is all speculation. 

[merrmeade]

On 10/15/2020 at 4:49 PM, 4paws said:

For anyone who has been the cheater in the relationship. Whats worked for you? What hasn't? Is there hope? Am I really doing all I can to fix this? I'm so lost I just don't know what to do and I feel a million emotions. 

Hmmmm. What the heck are you doing, 4Paws? Did you intentionally start this one off without referencing your original thread? You should have given a link or explanation to that other thread. Were you hoping to get responses that point the finger at your husband? I don’t see you jumping in to put them straight when they do. Are you accepting these interpretations of your reality? I’m disappointed that you started this thread off asking for advice because you’re so ‘lost’ and “don’t know what to do.” If you were looking for a fresh batch of people to feel sorry for you and blame your husband, that’s what you got. I regret my last post to you in the other thread. 

Or maybe you are really just looking for an excuse to get out of your situation. You haven’t actually been dealing with this very long at all, you know, yet you’re complaining that it’s too hard and you don’t like feeling bad - kind of like children do. An adult can feel bad about what you did but still be hopeful and humble about trying to change.

You admit you’ve lived in denial about how you push boundaries. Your own words say it better than any summary: 

Quote

 I never had a physical relationship with my ex husband once me and my now husband got together. But I still hid this relationship with my ex from my husband. In september 2014 I started working a new job and became very close with my male nurse. We worked 1 on 1 with each other every day. I never felt physically attracted to him, he was also alot older than me about 15 years or so. We talked and text all the time. Long conversations over the phone. This relationship was also not physical at all. But it was inappropriate because I never told my now husband

Your real deep-down belief that excuses it for you - even now - is that it wasn’t physical, you didn’t feel physically attracted. I was waiting for the “We were just friends” line, which I feel sure you’ve used somewhere. BEFORE reading the McDonald book, How to Help Your Spouse Heal..., you must read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. She quotes statistics and gives detailed examples of how emotional affairs develop between men and women that they insist are just friendships. Yours didn’t lead to a physical relationship, but do you think they could have? Also, why did you spend that time getting closer to another man rather than your husband? It will take more than books for you to get to the bottom of it. That means looking hard at how and why you interact with men.

If someone immediately protests that it wasn’t physical, nothing happened, it was just chit-chat, it wasn’t flirting, then that person is willfully ignoring the blurry lines that actually define flirting. Or just feeling flattered by a man’s attention. Sharing confidences. You’re choosing not to think about what’s inappropriate when you “got close.” Close how? 

You got a lot of really good, insightful advice in that other thread. You sounded sincere if willfully clueless. People were trying to help you ‘get it’ to the point of showing you how to be transparent. One gave you examples of how to report your activities in a day in such a way that he will see you are not responding to men’s overtures or even to friendly gestures. Someone else gave you a personal example of how she pulled back from a friendship with a married male friend just because of little signs to her that they could get close emotionally and his wife clearly wasn’t comfortable with their friendship. And Schlumpy gave you the name of a really good book in the second post above. 

I think this one bears rereading:

Quote

Certainly sounds like you are going the extra mile to make things right with your husband.  Of course you cannot avoid men the rest of your life.  You simply have to keep assuring your husband that you will never have close male friends again.  You will continue to work with males, but your relationships must remain at arms length.  Plutonic close relationships with the opposite sex is a recipe for disaster.  Too many of these relationships evolve into affairs.  There are plenty of women that you can cultivate as close friends.  Your husband should be able to get past this problem eventually provided you remain honest and transparent.  It will take awhile.   The fact that you didn't have a physical affair makes R so much more possible. Good luck and I hope everything works out for you. 

There are other threads you could read about couples reconciling after serious, physical affairs that involved lying and deception. A recent one talked about all his wife was doing to make up for her betrayal. He was struggling with the change in his feelings toward her. He went back and forth for weeks but said she continued working hard at doing and being what he needed - transparent, loving, attentive, sensitive. She wasn’t perfect and sometimes said clueless things to him but not as much as you do. Don’t ask us. Ask your husband what he needs. Better yet, do it in counseling.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by merrmeade