He doesn't like talking on the phone

[poppyfields]

21 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

I thought that too Poppy. It’s not the first time that he’s said he doesn’t want to appear over keen. I’ve not questioned it, obviously he’s believes this is the right way to go about dating,  Maybe this is how he’s kept a woman’s interest in the past,  but unfortunately  it’s not keeping mine.

Yeah I agree he believes it's the right way to play it, but playing devil's advocate, if you dont tell him it's NOT the right way to play it, with you, he will continue believing it's the right way to play it.

I say talk to him. Openly and sincerely.  After he makes a comment like that, ask him why.  Tell him what you want, what you need.  That you're not into men (or him) trying to play it so cool.

That's how you build intimacy and trust.  By being open, honest and communicating.

I dunno, I would have.  I would never let such a comment pass without discussing.  

He made that comment for a reason Calm.  Maybe trying to open the door for a deeper communication and connection, I don't know.  

Again, just playing devil's advocate and trying to understand both sides. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

Could this guy be playing by some dating rules made for beta male? Playing aloof, giving your just enough crumbs to keep you hooked. 

[boymommy]

9 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

No of course not- I’m looking for a meaningful, long term relationship but at the same time I realise that I can’t just expect an instant relationship from the get go. 
 

A bit of background too : I’ve been in therapy previously because I kept getting into abusive relationships. It came to light that all my past abusive relationships had one major factor in common - They started fast and furious, I was love bombed from the get go and I was “in a relationship” with all of them shortly after the first date. One thing I learnt in therapy was that healthy  relationships build gradually and that too much too soon is a major red flag. 
 

So I have the above firmly in my mindset as something to avoid. But I still find the “knowing what is normal” at the start of a relationship quite difficult to navigate. 

You are describing a narcissistic relationship. As someone historically known for attracting narcs (and marrying/divorcing one) I can say thats its tricky using this formula to determine if you are in an narc relationship. It can look so similar to a regular one (which can also start out fast and then taper off). Unfortunately its often very hard to tell early on if you are in a narc vs real relationship. 

[poppyfields]

27 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Could this guy be playing by some dating rules made for beta male? Playing aloof, giving your just enough crumbs to keep you hooked. 

That's what I thought earlier too.  But hell, a guy doesn't tell a woman he's dating that he's "trying to play it cool," for no reason.  To me, it's his way of getting a convo going!   Indirectly.  

The message being he doesnt feel cool, he's only trying to play it cool.  Cause he thinks it will attract more women, even Calm!  It's possible.

There is no way I would have let that comment pass, I would have been all over that like a bee to honey!  And you mentioned he's said things like that a few times?  

When you said nothing in response, HE might have interpreted that as you not giving a shyt.  Just sayin, it's possible.  I find it strange you said nothing.

I sense mixed messages on both sides and he may be equally as frustrated as you Calm.

Again, talk to him.  Openly, honestly.  Be real.

Assuming you like him and want to continue dating him.

If you're done, that's okay too!  

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by poppyfields

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Could this guy be playing by some dating rules made for beta male? Playing aloof, giving your just enough crumbs to keep you hooked. 

Hmmm...it seems like if he were doing that, he'd just sort of intermittently flake on the calls, not state upfront that he was basically never going to call, you know?

I mean it sounds downright neurotic.

Or else cheating on somebody.

No calls means no breadcrumbs, you know?

[poppyfields]

CAgirl or Gaeta, any thoughts as to why he made the comment "I'm trying to play it cool"?   Calm said he'd said it a few times!  

I posted my thoughts, curious what yours were.  😅

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 hours ago, poppyfields said:

CAgirl or Gaeta, any thoughts as to why he made the comment "I'm trying to play it cool"?   Calm said he'd said it a few times!  

I posted my thoughts, curious what yours were.  😅

 

 

No...but he does sound awkward...so I just took it to be part of that. I hadn't thought about it farther than that.

[Acacia98]

On 10/23/2020 at 2:39 AM, poppyfields said:

But what many men don't realize is that for many women, myself included, we will lose the connection if there is little to no communication in between dates!  

I'm not saying 24/7 or even every day!  But some men don't feel any need to stay connected between dates! 

And then they wonder why the woman they've been dating suddenly lost interest.

Yin/yang, Mars/Venus.  

Lol. Very true!

It still surprises me how frequently folks go into relationships thinking that emotional connection just happens magically. It doesn't occur to them that meaningful communication is part of building that bond. Asking for more is interpreted as nagging/being high maintenance. Silent treatment is considered to be a reasonable expression of anger or disagreement. The result? Total disaster.

[Calmandfocused]

10 hours ago, boymommy said:

You are describing a narcissistic relationship. As someone historically known for attracting narcs (and marrying/divorcing one) I can say thats its tricky using this formula to determine if you are in an narc relationship. It can look so similar to a regular one (which can also start out fast and then taper off). Unfortunately its often very hard to tell early on if you are in a narc vs real relationship. 

Yes, I’m well aware that I’m a Narc magnet and it’s these little gems that I’m trying to avoid as priority number 1. 
 

Luckily, I don’t think this guy is a Narc. In fact I’m pretty sure of it. However, in my dating journey to avoid the Narcs I’m running into all sorts of issues in other territories that I have no experience of. This being one of them. 

[Calmandfocused]

9 hours ago, poppyfields said:

That's what I thought earlier too.  But hell, a guy doesn't tell a woman he's dating that he's "trying to play it cool," for no reason.  To me, it's his way of getting a convo going!   Indirectly.  

The message being he doesnt feel cool, he's only trying to play it cool.  Cause he thinks it will attract more women, even Calm!  It's possible.

There is no way I would have let that comment pass, I would have been all over that like a bee to honey!  And you mentioned he's said things like that a few times?  

When you said nothing in response, HE might have interpreted that as you not giving a shyt.  Just sayin, it's possible.  I find it strange you said nothing.

I sense mixed messages on both sides and he may be equally as frustrated as you Calm.

Again, talk to him.  Openly, honestly.  Be real.

Assuming you like him and want to continue dating him.

If you're done, that's okay too!  

 

Hi Poppy. 
 

I see your point and yes I will address it ASAP. I haven’t so far as (yet again) it’s comes back to the text thing and how it’s not the best platform to communicate and discuss these things IMO. 
 

He’s mentioned it once/ twice over text whereby I replied that I wanted him to show interest and be open with me. The topic was swiftly dropped/ subject changed. 

When he mentioned it in person it was done in a jokey way and when he was kissing me playfully. It didn’t seem the right time to stop what we we’re doing to discuss it.

But one thing is clear on reflection and by all your comments: he thinks he’s doing the right thing here. It’s up to me to communicate that he isn’t. 

[Calmandfocused]

40 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Lol. Very true!

It still surprises me how frequently folks go into relationships thinking that emotional connection just happens magically. It doesn't occur to them that meaningful communication is part of building that bond. Asking for more is interpreted as nagging/being high maintenance. Silent treatment is considered to be a reasonable expression of anger or disagreement. The result? Total disaster.

You raise a good point here and have helped me to articulate how I feel. 
 

Phone calls to me are a meaningful communication tool that helps me to develop a bond. Text messages don’t really do that for me in the same way. 
 

I’m not expecting an instant emotional connection but meaningful communication (to me) helps create this. 
 

So as we stand at the minute I don’t feel any emotional connection to him at all ☹️. 

[Wiseman2]

40 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

So as we stand at the minute I don’t feel any emotional connection to him at all ☹️. 

When you are ready to see that this is precisely his intention by keeping this in the FWB/ hookup zone, you'll do yourself a favor and end it.

[Gaeta]

6 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

He’s mentioned it once/ twice over text whereby I replied that I wanted him to show interest and be open with me. The topic was swiftly dropped/ subject changed. 

When he mentioned it in person it was done in a jokey way and when he was kissing me playfully. It didn’t seem the right time to stop what we we’re doing to discuss it.

But one thing is clear on reflection and by all your comments: he thinks he’s doing the right thing here. It’s up to me to communicate that he isn’t. 

Seems to me you have already told him his way is not doing it for you and you want him to act differently. I don't think repeating yourself will get you different result. 

Also, we women tend to think there is a meaning behind words but men will almost always speak their mind. He's trying to play cool means he's trying to play cool. The question is WHY does he try to play cool? 

* he's playing by stupid dating rules

* he's not ready to date seriously so he's keeping things 'cool'. 

What is this guy dating history? How long he's been single? 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Gaeta

[Calmandfocused]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

Seems to me you have already told him his way is not doing it for you and you want him to act differently. I don't think repeating yourself will get you different result. 

Also, we women tend to think there is a meaning behind words but men will almost always speak their mind. He's trying to play cool means he's trying to play cool. The question is WHY does he try to play cool? 

* he's playing by stupid dating rules

* he's not ready to date seriously so he's keeping things 'cool'. 

What is this guy dating history? How long he's been single? 

Good questions, admittedly I don’t know the ins and outs of his dating history. 
 

What I do know is that he has never been married although he’s been engaged twice. One ex (not one he was engaged to) was domestically violent. i think she was his last serious ex which was way over a year ago. He had some brief flings earlier this year prior to the Covid lockdown in March. Thats as much as I know. 
 

He’s told me he’s ready to “settle down” In a relationship but I’m not sure he is. 

[Calmandfocused]

Do others agree with Wiseman? Do you believe that he just wants a FWB situation with me but he’s not being upfront and telling me this? 
 

He said for the next date he’s taking me out for a meal because he doesn’t want me to think that all he’s interested in is taking me to bed. 
 

This is all so very confusing to me...

Oh by the way he’s already booked the meal and he rang them to make the booking! On the phone! 

[Miss Spider]

I agree that he is managing expectations for something more casual. Dunno about fwb

Edited October 24, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

2 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

Do others agree with Wiseman? Do you believe that he just wants a FWB situation with me but he’s not being upfront and telling me this? 
 

He said for the next date he’s taking me out for a meal because he doesn’t want me to think that all he’s interested in is taking me to bed. 
This is all so very confusing to me...

Oh by the way he’s already booked the meal and he rang them to make the booking! On the phone! 

I didn't think so at first, but the above got me thinking.

You posted previously that your "dates" last 1-2 hours?  Are they indoors?  What do you do during these dates/meets?  Do you have sex each time, and then he leaves, or you leave?

I'm a bit confused now as you said you're quite happy with your in-person dates, but now him asking you out for a meal seems like a big deal, something you've never done before.

And he's doing it so you don't think he just wants sex?

Hmmm, my spiny senses tell me something seems off and Wise might be right.

What's your sense of it?

 

[Gaeta]

18 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

He said for the next date he’s taking me out for a meal because he doesn’t want me to think that all he’s interested in is taking me to bed. 

By experience I know that: 

• A liar will make a point of telling he's not a liar
• A player will make a point of telling he's not one
• A cheater will make a point of telling he's not a cheater
• and a man interested in bedding me will make a point of telling the restaurant is to make a point our Relationship is not about sex

Edited October 24, 2020 by Gaeta

[kendahke]

5 hours ago, Calmandfocused said:

Do others agree with Wiseman? Do you believe that he just wants a FWB situation with me but he’s not being upfront and telling me this? 

I think that at 3 weeks, he certainly doesn't want what you want or expect--and perhaps you need to rein in your expectations before they lead you into some hurt.

If he's not giving you a connection or if he's not communicating according to your expectations then either he's not checking for you like that or it's way too early for him and he's not ready/interested in stopping with whoever else he's seeing in order to accommodate your expectations.

Expectations are future resentments under construction.

Quote

He said for the next date he’s taking me out for a meal because he doesn’t want me to think that all he’s interested in is taking me to bed. 

Doesn't mean he's done trying to do that.

Edited October 24, 2020 by kendahke

[Acacia98]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:32 AM, Calmandfocused said:

Phone calls to me are a meaningful communication tool that helps me to develop a bond. Text messages don’t really do that for me in the same way. 

 

I’m not expecting an instant emotional connection but meaningful communication (to me) helps create this. 
 

So as we stand at the minute I don’t feel any emotional connection to him at all ☹️. 

I hear you. Knowing what I know now (painful experience), I wouldn't bother dating someone who wasn't on the same page communicationwise. It's a dealbreaker for me now.

[Acacia98]

On 10/24/2020 at 7:33 PM, Calmandfocused said:

Do others agree with Wiseman? Do you believe that he just wants a FWB situation with me but he’s not being upfront and telling me this? 

It's certainly possible.

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 10/24/2020 at 9:33 AM, Calmandfocused said:

Do others agree with Wiseman? Do you believe that he just wants a FWB situation with me but he’s not being upfront and telling me this? 
 

He said for the next date he’s taking me out for a meal because he doesn’t want me to think that all he’s interested in is taking me to bed. 
 

This is all so very confusing to me...

Oh by the way he’s already booked the meal and he rang them to make the booking! On the phone! 

Are you having sex with this guy?

If he refuses to use the phone how did he book this place?

He acts like a jerk. I'd be politely declining. He is a bully. Snottily informing you that you shouldn't expect to be called. Announcing, when he is darned good and ready, that he has booked a date.

Nah. Get lost, dude. There are so many other guys.

Edited October 25, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Calmandfocused]

2 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Are you having sex with this guy?

If he refuses to use the phone how did he book this place?

He acts like a jerk. I'd be politely declining. He is a bully. Snottily informing you that you shouldn't expect to be called. Announcing, when he is darned good and ready, that he has booked a date.

Nah. Get lost, dude. There are so many other guys.

That’s just it. He seems to call other people just fine. He called the restaurant to book it then text me to inform me when he’d done it! 

Yes we’re having sex. 

Tonight I got a text from him that really upset me. It was really dismissive, inconsistent with a “I don’t give a damn” attitude. My reply made it clear that I didn’t appreciate it, to which he then came back with how much he really likes me. I ignored it. 
 

This is just another example of how texts do not work for me.  If he had just picked up the phone we could have sorted it and I wouldn’t be feeling upset like I do right now, But no. Clearly it’s way too much to ask. 
 

This sounds such a trivial thing but all it’s showing me is that I do not matter.... to him. 
 

I’ll update you all once I’ve sorted this. Thanks for all your help and support so far. 
 

[poppyfields]

16 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

Tonight I got a text from him that really upset me. It was really dismissive, inconsistent with a “I don’t give a damn” attitude. 

Calm, did you mean "consistent" with his "I dont give a damn attitude"? 

It sounds like it may be his version of a "tease" or "neg."  Which can come off very poorly over text and be off-putting to the recipient.  

I'm wondering if he's following advice from some PUA website or something. 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

He told you that he's "playing it cool"?  Who on earth tells someone that they're playing it cool when it revolves around that person?  That's not playing it cool, that's just thumbing his nose in front of you!

Look, a dude is entitled to show as little or as much interest as he's feeling.  Just as a chick is entitled to accept as little or as much interest as is been showed to her.  

I think you need to pull back a bit and see where he's at with things to see how he reacts. 

I normally wouldn't advocate for using manipulative or passive-aggressive tactics.  However, in this case, I don't know of his words can really be trusted.  Actions speak loader than words, and the only actions that count are the one's which demonstate how much he's willing to prioritize you in his life.