Missing out on a woman because the conversation doesn't involve innuendo

[QuietRiot]

There was a huge thread in another board regarding how a woman is seriously tired of every guy she received a message from online, bringing up sex. Some would hold out a few days, and before you know it, they thought they had a winner...and BOOM...the guy brings up sex.  

Typically some men use innuendo or double entrendes to soften the blow, as to not blatantly get too crazy with the sex talk. Or is there a fine line between innuendo and blatant sex talk or innuendo sex talk?

Then a guy argued that he missed out on women only because his conversations were more...benign and never got sexual. He said if he's looking for a friend or buddy, he'd keep it non-sexual. You may even wind up in the friendzone because of it. Here's the following that I read:

I can tell you for a fact that as a guy, I lose out on some women because I don’t sexualize things quickly enough. Some girls want the guy to take the initiative so it’s really damn if you do, damn if you don’t. I don’t sexualize the interaction with some girls, they think we don’t like them, and then you have your situation where we do and then we pushed too far. There’s really no way for us to know this unless you explicitly say you’d rather not talk about sex until the 2nd date.

Part of healthy relationships is being explicit in what you want, and what you’re looking for, and then also realizing that everyone around you has criteria for selecting people and the way you act may turn them off, and the way they act may turn you off. It’s generally better to act how you want to act and have someone dismiss you than try to be fake and predict what the other person wants, you probably wouldn’t verbally agree that you want a guy to be fake with you anyway.

That said, would you say there is something to inneundo?

Edited October 28, 2020 by QuietRiot

[Blind-Sided]

I've made this argument a few times.  I read posts here, and you see girls saying they were turned off by all the guys who talk about sex.... and then you see a post saying they dumped a guy because he didn't "Make the move".  Heck... I've seen that exact conversation that was brought up by 2 different members here. (Girls) and I called them out on it when they complained about both sides just a few weeks apart. 

All people are different... and you really never know.  BUT... that's where it helps to be able to "read the room" to know what that girl is looking for.  But with that said... sometimes the girl just doesn't give you an indication of what she want. 

And finally... I honestly think... some people (but mostly women) aren't truly happy until they have something to complain about. 

Anyway... just my random thoughts.  Take it for what it's worth. 

[Fletch Lives]

Yawn....It continues to amaze me how little most people know about dating and relationships.

Women today (over the age of 27) like a gentleman. This means no sex talk until you are seriously kissing.

Women are slow cookers......... you have to give them time to start falling for you, and as I said above, they like gentlemen. If it's heading into a relationship the woman will want sex as much as you do and it will happen. And if a relationship happens the guy will get sex for a long time, perhaps years - so why be anxious about it? What's the rush, hot-pants?!  It's too bad guys don't know this and act so needy.

One of the biggest problems with dating is guys moving too fast and bringing up sex! Forget about sex........if she likes you enough to start kissing, she'll want sex eventually. So relax. The only move you have to worry about is going for the first kiss. Then your job is done.

Kissing is the gateway to sex.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Fletch Lives

[SumGuy]

Of course you are damned if you do and damned if you don't if you think all women (or people) are the same, that there is one way that works for all women.  Now what works well for most women in my experience....

The devil is in the details in all of this, how you bring up sex and how you show attraction are everything.   There are so many ways to let her know you are attracted to her without one word of sex or innuendo.   So many ways to make the first "move."

As to banter and innuendo, those work very, very well if done right.  Not to set up a tautology, but it appears to be a rare skill to be able to do it right.  In the rare event a guy gives any details on what he thought was innuendo or banter, I have never seen it be anything but crass at best.  You really do have to listen to her, and ascertain where she falls in the whole spectrum of banter.

I could go on and on, but in my view those who complain about not being able to flirt, banter, innuendo, etc. without turning her off (then cry double standard) are not going to succeed until they change their mindset.  There are no "magic lines" strong enough to help when you come from this mindset.   Banter etc., to do it right, in my opinion, requires you to be coming from a place of acceptance of no, of enjoying the fun of banter in and of itself (not just as a stepping stone to sex), from a place without thirst but full of desire, from a soul of nurturing, and a love of the carnal and sensual as art not act.  Add in the outward that she desires (and that you are), be it a rough and ready look, dapper and refined, art and emo, khakis and polo, and you have a recipe for success.  None of that precludes "traditional" masculinity, which is often the response I see to such advice, but heck in my book "traditional" masculinity and whining are incompatible.  Confidence and connection works far more often than cockiness and crassness.  Now let the mocking begin :). 

In short, the biggest mistake I see is men eschew connection, they either have no idea what that means (it's more than hobbies or "values"), or think it is beneath them, or a waste or what have you.  Fair enough.  Any approach will work at least once on someone in my view, just good luck finding them.   

Even the DTF women who love the explicit come on want connection (just made in a different way)...however, I see the mindset that whines about women to be completely incompatible with forging a connection (getting to sex) with such women. 

This is of course only for those situations where people complain, no one seems to complain about when the other person does all the work and reads their minds.

 

as an aside....rarely also have I seen a post where someone complains about "nothing" working where they ever consider there may be something off with their mindset.  Rather it seems to be a search for an echo chamber, and magical solutions.  In my view, few (very, very few) people (let alone women) like a whiner and an obstinate whiner is even less.

Edited October 28, 2020 by SumGuy

[Miss Spider]

No. That isn’t necessary. A lot of guys do not include that kind of talk in their ‘game’ and they are just as successful, if not moreso. You do not have to be that forward off the bat. 

Frankly, I would  find sexual innuendo from someone I’m chatting with online really presumptuous and unattractive.  Seems desperate, considering you haven’t met in person so odds are you don’t legitimately know if you’re even attracted to each other. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

No. That isn’t necessary. A lot of guys do not include that kind of talk in their ‘game’ and they are just as successful, if not moreso. You do not have to be that forward off the bat. 

Frankly, I would  find sexual innuendo from someone I’m chatting with online really presumptuous and unattractive.  Seems desperate, considering you haven’t met in person so odds are you don’t legitimately know if you’re even attracted to each other. 

Agree 100%.   Connection is what works in my experience, and have found if that is happening she is the one to start some tasteful, playful, banter...no need to go there on your own and certainly don't escalate it beyond where she goes.  

Banter and innuendo via messaging and chatting is even harder to do right than in person.  If one needs to ask or is unsure, just avoid it.   I'm not certain if banter and innuendo are even the right terms for what I am thinking of works, the examples I see from others to me seem like a 4kg sledge, where my "innuendo" is more like a feather.

[Foxhall]

11 hours ago, Fletch Lives said:

The only move you have to worry about is going for the first kiss

Personally this was a huge mental barrier in my current relationship, I was out of the game a while and lacking confidence,

it took until our fifth date I think but things got easier from that point, 

perhaps on balance the ladies prefer the man to take the initiative, put sex in their mind as my buddy says,

again myself am more on the shyer side so need help from the lady to show me the way as it were. what fletch lives describes there that is the only way I could proceed.

 

[QuietRiot]

18 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Of course you are damned if you do and damned if you don't if you think all women (or people) are the same, that there is one way that works for all women.  Now what works well for most women in my experience....

The devil is in the details in all of this, how you bring up sex and how you show attraction are everything.   There are so many ways to let her know you are attracted to her without one word of sex or innuendo.   So many ways to make the first "move."

As to banter and innuendo, those work very, very well if done right.  Not to set up a tautology, but it appears to be a rare skill to be able to do it right.  In the rare event a guy gives any details on what he thought was innuendo or banter, I have never seen it be anything but crass at best.  You really do have to listen to her, and ascertain where she falls in the whole spectrum of banter.

I could go on and on, but in my view those who complain about not being able to flirt, banter, innuendo, etc. without turning her off (then cry double standard) are not going to succeed until they change their mindset.  There are no "magic lines" strong enough to help when you come from this mindset.   Banter etc., to do it right, in my opinion, requires you to be coming from a place of acceptance of no, of enjoying the fun of banter in and of itself (not just as a stepping stone to sex), from a place without thirst but full of desire, from a soul of nurturing, and a love of the carnal and sensual as art not act.  Add in the outward that she desires (and that you are), be it a rough and ready look, dapper and refined, art and emo, khakis and polo, and you have a recipe for success.  None of that precludes "traditional" masculinity, which is often the response I see to such advice, but heck in my book "traditional" masculinity and whining are incompatible.  Confidence and connection works far more often than cockiness and crassness.  Now let the mocking begin :). 

In short, the biggest mistake I see is men eschew connection, they either have no idea what that means (it's more than hobbies or "values"), or think it is beneath them, or a waste or what have you.  Fair enough.  Any approach will work at least once on someone in my view, just good luck finding them.   

Even the DTF women who love the explicit come on want connection (just made in a different way)...however, I see the mindset that whines about women to be completely incompatible with forging a connection (getting to sex) with such women. 

This is of course only for those situations where people complain, no one seems to complain about when the other person does all the work and reads their minds.

 

as an aside....rarely also have I seen a post where someone complains about "nothing" working where they ever consider there may be something off with their mindset.  Rather it seems to be a search for an echo chamber, and magical solutions.  In my view, few (very, very few) people (let alone women) like a whiner and an obstinate whiner is even less.

There's this one guy I know, early 50s, that simply just knows how to talk to people. He's NEVER touched online dating in the least. He hangs at the local watering holes and small town downtown areas. He says he talks to anyone next to him. He doesn't discriminate who he talks to, so that may be the attraction there. He's just a talker, and if an attractive lady is present, then he'll take it  up a notch.

He's actually an attractive man, so he has a plus for his favor already. In fact, when he was at an ice cream shop, one of the workers there invited him out with her and her friends to a restuarant. When they got done eating, she was like 'Let's play a game" and goes "I'll ask you first, when was the last time you had sex?"

And this was the WOMAN asking this quesiton, of course it was out of fun. So he's so physically attractive, that women have no qualms with talking sex with him. lol

[QuietRiot]

There had been times where I had women simply attracted to me because I was a gentleman. I recall one woman that was enamored by me and she must have repeatedly said, "You're a gentleman, care to grab some coffee?" (I just paraphrased). And I was just being myself. It was effortless to attract her. lol I attracted her by just being me. lol

[SumGuy]

6 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

There's this one guy I know, early 50s, that simply just knows how to talk to people. He's NEVER touched online dating in the least. He hangs at the local watering holes and small town downtown areas. He says he talks to anyone next to him. He doesn't discriminate who he talks to, so that may be the attraction there. He's just a talker, and if an attractive lady is present, then he'll take it  up a notch.

Yah I am the same way (except I did do OLD), well before staying at home.   Of course when taken never took it up a notch, and with women when I'm taken may take it down a notch.   

Quote

He's actually an attractive man, so he has a plus for his favor already. In fact, when he was at an ice cream shop, one of the workers there invited him out with her and her friends to a restuarant. When they got done eating, she was like 'Let's play a game" and goes "I'll ask you first, when was the last time you had sex?"

How did he answer?  Maybe a better answer is the question "When is the next time will I have sex"  ;).   

I've had a bartender and waitress (at different places) "ask" me out, it's kind of a catch-22 as pretty sure they liked me because I was a regular and them seeing me meeting with female friends and collogues (yes true platonic friends.) but these are places I like to go often...so don't sh*t where you eat so to speak....been there, done that...very awkward when it ends.  That and I don't date women who are young enough to be my daughter, ever, even if I look much younger than my chronological age.

Quote

And this was the WOMAN asking this question, of course it was out of fun. So he's so physically attractive, that women have no qualms with talking sex with him. lol

It generally has as much to do with putting them at ease and intriguing them as being in good shape.   I generally don't buy "looks" as much of category, as what is amazing to some is blah to others...I can list all the "media's sexiest men alive" that have heard women say are not sexy and list men that I've heard women say they find incredibly sexy that many men just can't believe (and get all defensive and derogatory about...i.e. there must be something "wrong" with these women).   A long way to say, your looks could be a 5 to one woman but an 8 to another, then your demeanor and personality can easily add (or subtract) 2-3 points on your overall attractiveness.

All that being said, it was not uncommon for me when I was dating for women to bring up and talk about sex, even on a first date.   Now it certainly indicates a level of comfort and potential interest but most will misinterpret what it means so will leave it at that.

[SumGuy]

7 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

There had been times where I had women simply attracted to me because I was a gentleman. I recall one woman that was enamored by me and she must have repeatedly said, "You're a gentleman, care to grab some coffee?" (I just paraphrased). And I was just being myself. It was effortless to attract her. lol I attracted her by just being me. lol

Yep, there seem to be so many jerks out there it sets a low bar for the rest of us....that just being decent and well-mannered sets you apart.   I believe this goes double for good-looking women.    She probably found you "not bad to look at" as well.    👍

[basil67]

Innuendo can be fun when building up a sexual rapport.   However, it only works if she is already into you.   If the guy rushes into innuendo before she's into him, he will come off as a creep and he's done.   

 

[LuckyM]

They can find any excuse to walk or run away literally all ages. Depends on the girl   Side quips should be fast and with a big smile --- prepared ahead. 

[Chilli]

What women are you talking about here just date nothings and someone to sleep with , if that's the case who cares . But someone very very special talking the marrying kind that's into you as much as you her l wouldn't worry about any of it it's common you both fumble around a bit but that's expected and very forgiving . You both know damn well how your feeling and how special and rare that is . Well it's been the case for me anyway - with many fk ups thrown in but neither of us were going anywhere.

[Atwood]

Is it not a chemistry/compatibility issue?

 

If there's no chemistry, it'll fall flat. If there is, it's probably going to be fine. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Flirting can be polite and mannerable and doesn't have to be sexual at all.  All flirting involves is showing more interest in interacting with someone than is literally required in that situation.  I asked questions for my earlier profession. And if I sometimes showed real interest in what someone was saying--usually by asking really good followup questions-- other people often thought I was flirting.  Also lots of conversations start neutral and if there is chemistry between two people, there will be all kinds of energy in the air--without a sexual word spoken.

Your friend needs to pay attention to when he feels an electric charge just talking or interacting with a woman. Heck good flirting and showing of interest doesn't have to be in words at all. A good laugh. Mutual eye-contact. Smiling at each other. Really good back-and-forth conversation that doesn't feel like a job interview. A quick and powerful mutual expression by two people to hang out. 

Most likely your friend is trying to approach a bunch of women that he really doesn't feel attraction for. And there is no reason to approach them romantically because there is no chemistry between them. He's deaf and blind to the inner  signals of attraction (his own) and outer signals (from the other) of attraction.