Turning around rejection

[elaine567]

19 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

But yes I suspect you are right she is just looking for a unicorn of some sort

Why would you assume that?
Women will put up with all kinds of guys, some not that special, some very ordinary, some with not a lot going for them.
The trick is in connection.
Something about that guy floats her boat.
He makes her feel good in some sort of a way.
Men do not need to be unicorns to attract women, but they do need to spark interest.
No interest, no connection, no attraction.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Moves Like Jagger said:

Where did you go for the date? I need some context. I don't know if it was another coffee date interview or you did something fun for the date? I never  understood why people recommend coffee if it's something that you're not passionate about.

This one was a dinner date.  I have sometimes wondered about the bold. How many people are passionate about something, I certainly have not found this with most of the dates I have been on. 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But in this case it is not about what you think.. 
You think there are areas of common interest and attraction with this woman, but SHE did not feel the same, else she would not have ghosted you.

Which just goes to prove that even common interest is not enough. See this is where I go wrong, the only way I can connect with people is over common interests. 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Why would you assume that?
Women will put up with all kinds of guys, some not that special, some very ordinary, some with not a lot going for them.
The trick is in connection.
Something about that guy floats her boat.
He makes her feel good in some sort of a way.
Men do not need to be unicorns to attract women, but they do need to spark interest.
No interest, no connection, no attraction.

I am just going to leave this be and take the advice here and just move on. Though I ask myself what I would actually do with someone I liked who wanted to date me. Rather mute point considering how likely that is to happen. The way she spoke on the date suggested common interests did matter to her but I guess so called connection mattered more. 

I often wonder how I would actually date and I cannot fathom how I would do that. What I liked about her is we had enough in common to actually get along well and I would not need to bend over and compromise too much. What I really need is to have me faith restored but that is a tall order, though I did have a nice chat with a stunning LA based model on IG, she was actually quite nice and friendly. That is the thing if I confine dating to texting only I actually can have some sort of success, the interactions are often much better there and it falls in a heap when I actually meet the person.

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Which just goes to prove that even common interest is not enough. See this is where I go wrong, the only way I can connect with people is over common interests. 

Yep, common interests are great for getting the conversation started, but after that, personal conversation takes centre stage.  Interest in their thoughts and feelings and the intangible stuff.  

[Cookiesandough]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:What I really need is to have me faith restored but that is a tall order, though I did have a nice chat with a stunning LA based model on IG, she was actually quite nice and friendly. That is the thing if I confine dating to texting only I actually can have some sort of success, the interactions are often much better there and it falls in a heap when I actually meet the person.

Oh boy

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I did have a nice chat with a stunning LA based model on IG, she was actually quite nice and friendly. That is the thing if I confine dating to texting only I actually can have some sort of success, the interactions are often much better there

That is I guess because the conversation is on a superficial level, but in person you need to be more engaging.
She is looking for signs that you "like" her, she is looking for signs that she "likes" you in return
if you keep it all on a common interest/friend level, she will confine you to the friendzone and just pass.

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yep, common interests are great for getting the conversation started, but after that, personal conversation takes centre stage.  Interest in their thoughts and feelings and the intangible stuff.  

Well the award for figuring out why my dates never work goes to you and Elaine. 

That is the thing, quite honestly how do I become interested in someone thoughts, their opinions yes but their thoughts? As for feelings, my ability to read dates is so poor unless they articulate these I would have no what they are feeling, sure if they laugh I can see that but beyond the physically obvious, nope I cant really do that.

I liked this date because well the common interests just worked whereas I sit someone else with few common interests and I ask myself what I am doing there, why did I ever bother going on this date. Part of this comes from the fact I just shut myself off because when it comes down to it for most of my nearly 37 years on this planet few people have ever taken an interest in my feelings.

Its probably because of this I never really connect or VERY rarely connect. 

[Fletch Lives]

23 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But in this case it is not about what you think.. 
You think there are areas of common interest and attraction with this woman, but SHE did not feel the same, else she would not have ghosted you.

This. Her idea / feelings are not your feelings. 

We call this stalking. People who don't get hints that another does not want to talk to them.

No problem! Just talk to others.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, elaine567 said:

That is I guess because the conversation is on a superficial level, but in person you need to be more engaging.
She is looking for signs that you "like" her, she is looking for signs that she "likes" you in return
if you keep it all on a common interest/friend level, she will confine you to the friendzone and just pass.

Again very correct. The only I way I communicate "like" is to be friendly, I simply have nothing else I can use to show that or sometimes I will tell them I like you but that is rare because so much of my like is attributed to the superficial level and I cant be that engaging in person. Its very easy to be confident chatting via text but its a heck of a lot harder in person.

I do not know how to not make it friend common interest. In this respect I just feel stupid. You are probably right many of them probably did this because they did not think I liked them.

Its extremely hard to try balance this problem with all the other dating ones I have. Part of me just wants to play the "well this is me I am useless at dating, clueless, if that does not appeal you can leave now" and for a few years I did try this on OLD but all that proved was people do not want that sort of person.

I would not know if they liked me, truthfully I do not think anyone I have been on a date with really liked me at all. Lets exclude the drunk one who was all over me and maybe 2 outliers who saw me as a ticket to a better life. 

The truth is I now HAVE to rely on some sort of sympathy/project level of appeal because the reality is I do not have any other appeal. Which is why there is this big gulf between what I like and the zero people I am able to date who I do like. 

The other thing which made me consider trying to turn this date around was the fact we did get along pretty well on that superficial level but I guess this prompted the famous line "you are very nice but even if we dont date I would like to be friends". I heard this many times and its about as sincere as a politician.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, Fletch Lives said:

This. Her idea / feelings are not your feelings. 

We call this stalking. People who don't get hints that another does not want to talk to them.

No problem! Just talk to others.

Decided to leave it. Easy say talk to others but I made the mistake of creating another dating profile and once again got the same sort of matches I get every time, to put it bluntly there is nothing dynamic about any of these people, I would not choose seeing them over watching a series for example. Maybe I am just grumpy. 

I think a lot of it comes down to ones own self dating worth and mine is frankly zero. I am not good enough for anyone remotely attractive so I don not really bother.

[Fletch Lives]

You have to get your attitude up. God does not respect one person over another.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

As for feelings, my ability to read dates is so poor unless they articulate these I would have no what they are feeling, sure if they laugh I can see that but beyond the physically obvious, nope I cant really do that.

I always had the most success when I wasn’t worried about what they were feeling about the date. Then I could just relax and enjoy myself, which I suspect makes a possible connection even more likely. Connection happens when both people are being themselves. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I think a lot of it comes down to ones own self dating worth and mine is frankly zero. I am not good enough for anyone remotely attractive so I don not really bother.

Almost certainly not true. But your belief that it is will cause you to fail over and over. 

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

I always had the most success when I wasn’t worried about what they were feeling about the date. Then I could just relax and enjoy myself, which I suspect makes a possible connection even more likely. Connection happens when both people are being themselves. 

That's the thing, the more superficial common interests there are the more comfortable I am and the more I can just be "me" rather than having to try adapt myself to whatever I think the situation needs. Which is why I liked this particular date more than most because that communication was very good whereas mostly I get bored fairly quickly, I could sit and talk to her for hours easily but my guard is never down, never do I really put myself out there, why you say, well because I know rejection is inevitable and it becomes a whole lot easier to deal with if I have offered up little of who I am and my feelings, sometimes like this I will offer that up but the way I see it is a game of odds, the common interest was enough for me but clearly not for her DESPITE the fact she nearly came over the night BEFORE the dare.

Do you think a lot of how people connect is dependent on what they actually want? To this day I do not know what she actually wanted out of that date, whereas I quickly decided I wanted to see her again so my entire approach was geared with that objective in mind. You call connection, for me its being captivated to want to get to know the person, again pretty rare for me. 

In fact my dating life is a lot like and it does actually pain me to say this, the dog that comes running with a ball, he wants to play but the owner shouts at him and he goes away, he will come running back wagging his tail but again the owner will shout at him and he will go away, eventually he wont come back but he will sit in the corner just feeling unloved. That's me. 

You have always offered up such good advice, thank you, genuinely so.

There was another incident like this, again someone I went out with an enjoyed spending time with, that time it was "no chemistry" and I happened to see her when I was out running this week which I guess just dredged up another unpleasant rejection of something which had a lot of promise.

[basil67]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

That is the thing, quite honestly how do I become interested in someone thoughts, their opinions yes but their thoughts? As for feelings, my ability to read dates is so poor unless they articulate these I would have no what they are feeling, sure if they laugh I can see that but beyond the physically obvious, nope I cant really do that.

When I talk of thoughts and feelings, I'm talking about ones which are verbalised.  With the exception of when their manner makes it clear something is on their mind -then you ask something like "are you OK?"  Or "how was work today?"  

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 for most of my nearly 37 years on this planet few people have ever taken an interest in my feelings.

How often have you shared that you're feeling happy/sad/angry/proud/etc with your friends?   

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Do you think a lot of how people connect is dependent on what they actually want? To this day I do not know what she actually wanted out of that date, whereas I quickly decided I wanted to see her again so my entire approach was geared with that objective in mind. You call connection, for me its being captivated to want to get to know the person, again pretty rare for me.

Did you make any attempt to get to know her beyond common interests?  First date is not too early to start learning about the person.  For that matter, did she ask you anything about yourself?   Your job? Family? 

[Foxhall]

One step you could start with is really working on your physique,

get out running, cycling, swimming, lifting weights, work on building up those arms and shoulders and so on,

even if gyms are closed you could be doing plenty of workouts at home- a few hundred press ups and sit ups for a start,

work on your diet- get the nutri bullet out daily- green veg with seeds and so on get into a healthy regime,

the LA model mentioned here, she is at the very least going to want a guy with a good appearance, a guy with broad shoulders who excites her to be naked with, who is capable of going all night in the sack and so on,

there are three things really in seducing a woman-  having a good career, having a good physique and  having a good personality,

As far as I know your ok on the career one, I think your personality issues are as much lack of self esteem as anything else.

perhaps putting a significant effort into your physique and fitness is something which could really boost your chances- making you more physically attractive to the women and giving your own morale a boost, making you feel better about yourself,

understandably your self esteem is at a low ebb, but deep down you know your capable of and entitled as anyone else to finding a stunning partner, I can sense a bit of an edge about you too that would appeal to women.

give yourself a chance though- no pain no gain Im afraid- for the next six months - hire a personal trainer even, follow these you tube programmes- get yourself in shape and better your situation.

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Foxhall

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Foxhall said:

One step you could start with is really working on your physique,

get out running, cycling, swimming, lifting weights, work on building up those arms and shoulders and so on,

even if gyms are closed you could be doing plenty of workouts at home- a few hundred press ups and sit ups for a start,

work on your diet- get the nutri bullet out daily- green veg with seeds and so on get into a healthy regime,

the LA model mentioned here, she is at the very least going to want a guy with a good appearance, a guy with broad shoulders who excites her to be naked with, who is capable of going all night in the sack and so on,

there are three things really in seducing a woman-  having a good career, having a good physique and  having a good personality,

As far as I know your ok on the career one, I think your personality issues are as much lack of self esteem as anything else.

perhaps putting a significant effort into your physique and fitness is something which could really boost your chances- making you more physically attractive to the women and giving your own morale a boost, making you feel better about yourself,

understandably your self esteem is at a low ebb, but deep down you know your capable of and entitled as anyone else to finding a stunning partner, I can sense a bit of an edge about you too that would appeal to women.

give yourself a chance though- no pain no gain Im afraid- for the next six months - hire a personal trainer even, follow these you tube programmes- get yourself in shape and better your situation.

I do work out each day, more because I have to because of significant work stress and because I need to break the long work day.

Physique is not everything, countless times I loose out to guys who are not that fit or simply just have a better personality. I am lucky I am tall and slim, some would say that raises one chances but I do not think it does. People I know that are good at dating have ALL the attributes to be be successful at it, one is actually in objectively terms extremely unsuccessful career wise but he can charm people far younger and they flock to him because he is seen as cool and he has huge levels of confidence. 

Why I thought this date also worked well was because socially we were much the same, for me its pointless going out with someone who wants to party and drink all weekend. Not drinking has its own huge stigma here but I could not care less about that. I often think the way to change many things in the world is to change peoples way of thought and that applies equally to me too, if I could change my perception it would go a long way to changing my approach BUT that is very difficult to do when every experience is the same.

This stupid set up of a few weeks ago, those never make me feel good because well its someone else deciding what is best for me, but again if its so good why are they not going for it. 

I do not really think I am entitled to a date of my choosing, that sailed away a long time ago because various dating apps made it very clear where I sit on the attractiveness scale and baring a few outliers like this date I am never surprised or especially motivated to meet any of these people. People who can choose are those who have experience and wisdom and I have neither. 

People want finished articles not people they have to train.

As for the model, well that is simply living vicariously. 

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

When I talk of thoughts and feelings, I'm talking about ones which are verbalised.  With the exception of when their manner makes it clear something is on their mind -then you ask something like "are you OK?"  Or "how was work today?"  

How often have you shared that you're feeling happy/sad/angry/proud/etc with your friends?   

 

Did you make any attempt to get to know her beyond common interests?  First date is not too early to start learning about the person.  For that matter, did she ask you anything about yourself?   Your job? Family? 

First bold: never, I simply do not share feelings, barring perhaps anger.  

I tried to get to know her and found out a bit but as usual she asked me virtually nothing about me and it was easier to talk about a topic rather than a person. 

[Weezy1973]

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

First bold: never, I simply do not share feelings, barring perhaps anger.  

I tried to get to know her and found out a bit but as usual she asked me virtually nothing about me and it was easier to talk about a topic rather than a person. 

This is why you can’t connect with people.

[Cookiesandough]

Yes We have already discussed this to the ends of infinity, za_ dater, but you give the impression you are a dull date. You describe yourself as austere and emotionless with no sense of humor or no interest in what most people are interested in. You seek a beautiful, charismatic woman. Is it really any surprise you are going to search a bit harder than the average than the person 

[basil67]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

First bold: never, I simply do not share feelings, barring perhaps anger.  

You share your feelings here all the time, especially those of frustration and exasperation.  In your real life, do you ever share feelings of happiness or joy?   For say, a great experience, a fond memory or a good outcome?  

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I tried to get to know her and found out a bit but as usual she asked me virtually nothing about me and it was easier to talk about a topic rather than a person. 

Well done you.    However, if she doesn't ask anything about you, don't even bother thinking about another date.   Not asking any questions is a reflection of a lack of interest in others....and probably a big reason she's still single.

[HiCrunchy]

If she is on bumble, as a man, I would just swipe right and let her make the first move. If she lets it expire, then you have ur answer right?

Bumble is all about women making the first move anyways.

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

You share your feelings here all the time, especially those of frustration and exasperation.  In your real life, do you ever share feelings of happiness or joy?   For say, a great experience, a fond memory or a good outcome?  

Well done you.    However, if she doesn't ask anything about you, don't even bother thinking about another date.   Not asking any questions is a reflection of a lack of interest in others....and probably a big reason she's still single.

Interesting question which I had to think about, I am frequently accused of being negative. So I just generally would rather say nothing at all than be accused of that. Happiness and joy is in short supply with me, there is no disputing that fact.  Sure I will enjoy a good cycle but I don't go telling people how nice it was blasting down a hill or cycling among the vineyards, taking in the smell of spring. I'll enjoy the sense of accomplishment of getting something right but again I do not go about telling people about it.

People just are not really interested in others, I definitely notice when someone takes an interest in me and the last time that happened she only took any sort of interest in me because she thought I was extremely wealthy, she did give me a lot of attention which was rather nice for the change. When she realised I was not what she thought I was she dropped me like a hot potato.

 

[ZA Dater]

20 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Yes We have already discussed this to the ends of infinity, za_ dater, but you give the impression you are a dull date. You describe yourself as austere and emotionless with no sense of humor or no interest in what most people are interested in. You seek a beautiful, charismatic woman. Is it really any surprise you are going to search a bit harder than the average than the person 

No, not much of a surprise at all. I suppose I should just put blinkers on and ignore the sort of guys many ladies seem to fall over their feet to be with. If I am honest the thing I like most about dating is window shopping, looking is free because when you think about it, what makes someone go and talk to someone else of swipe on them? Their physical appearance.

This particular date wowed me with appearance and conversation. Stupid as it is when I go on dates I think long term rather than short term, if I am going to step so far out of my comfort zone then I need to be sure its worth doing so. On this occasion it was worth it and I think I made a much better go of things on this date because I saw the long term potential.