My GF was the OW in her previous relationship. Some thoughts/insecurities I need to air

[Unsureaboutmyself]

My GF of 7 months and I (both in our 30s) are doing wonderfully - the communication is open, the sex is great, the intimacy is fab. We talk about everything under the sun and nothing is held back and there aren't any secrets between us. She's been very candid about her few-years-old affair with a married subordinate, an affair which sprang from travelling up and the down the state for work and working in close proximity. She ended things last year when she wanted to move on and he couldn't give her the one thing she wanted - a long-term commitment. Everything else was great. Not surprisingly he wasn't keen on that. 

Because of covid she's here with me in another state, and has continued to work with the MM via text and phone calls mainly. She told me from the start she preferred to tell the MM in person about us and end the previous relationship cleanly and give it closure. I respect her decision and was completely fine with that, until more recently when the MM began to more openly pine for her, saying he's been dreaming about her etc. My GF doesn't conceal any of this and shares with me what the MM says. What I'm having some difficulty with is that each time the MM says something along those personal lines (which is increasing in frequency) my GF replies asking him to remain friends since he can't give her what she wants and that she wants to find someone who can. She would only tell him about me when she sees him in person next year and resume their previous work arrangement, travelling up and down the state together. She assures me that nothing would happen (or restart) since she has stronger feelings for me than she ever did for him. And she ask me if I wanted her to tell the MM now about us. I told her that the final decision has to be hers to make alone and I'll continue to respect whatever decision she arrives at. I don't want to be jealous, controlling, and want to be above it all and be kind and supportive to her way of closing this loop.

But I have mixed feelings; my insecurities are speaking out here. 

Thoughts, anyone?

[Wiseman2]

53 minutes ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

My GF of 7 months and I (both in our 30s).She ended things last year

 the MM began to more openly pine for her, saying he's been dreaming about her etc. My GF doesn't conceal any of this

Unfortunately, they are still carrying on as lovers. That type of conversation is not about business at all.

In fact it seems you  may either be a rebound or more likely a tool to force him to leave his wife, make him jealous etc., since still...that is what she ultimately wants and keeps talking to him and you about. Three's a crowd and their affair is far from over. 

Step way back from this. Take your time observing all this. most important guard your heart and don't get caught in the crossfire of their affair negotiations. 

[Unsureaboutmyself]

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately, they are still carrying on as lovers. That type of conversation is not about business at all.

In fact it seems you  may either be a rebound or more likely a tool to force him to leave his wife, make him jealous etc., since still...that is what she ultimately wants and keeps talking to him and you about. Three's a crowd and their affair is far from over. 

Step way back from this. Take your time observing all this. most important guard your heart and don't get caught in the crossfire of their affair negotiations. 

 

Have guarded my heart, which is causing some consternation. She says she sees marriage and a life together with me, and doesn't want to return to that relationship and the lows it made her feel, and doesn't want to return to the working arrangement too. But odds are she's resuming the work arrangement, a 2-3 months on the roads one, and prefers to keep the friendship she and the MM had before the affair intact. She asked me if I wanted to set any boundaries for her and him and she'd heed them, but I told such boundaries can only be drawn by her of her own volition.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Unsureaboutmyself

[elaine567]

58 minutes ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

my GF replies asking him to remain friends since he can't give her what she wants and that she wants to find someone who can.

Ok so what happpens if he says "I have left my wife and I want to commit fully to you..."
i am sorry but she is still trying to get him to commit to her.
We had a MM on here whose OW  went off with another man.
He couldn't stand it, he was too jealous and afraid he would lose her. He left his wife and fully committed to his OW. He was just too comfortable in the affair previously, but her finding another man jolted him out of his complacency and forced his hand. She binned the other guy the moment her MM said he would commit
 The MM/OW relationship is often very complicated, but the bond formed between an OW and her MM can be very strong, do not dismiss it out of hand.
You are feeling insecure here for a very good reason...

[Unsureaboutmyself]

3 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Ok so what happpens if he says "I have left my wife and I want to commit fully to you..."
i am sorry but she is still trying to get him to commit to her.
We had a MM on here whose OW  went off with another man.
He couldn't stand it, he was too jealous and afraid he would lose her. He left his wife and fully committed to his OW. He was just too comfortable in the affair previously, but her finding another man jolted him out of his complacency and forced his hand. She binned the other guy the moment her MM said he would commit
 The MM/OW relationship is often very complicated, but the bond formed between an OW and her MM can be very strong, do not dismiss it out of hand.
You are feeling insecure here for a very good reason...

 

I have asked her that before, what if he left his wife and child for her if he realised he really couldn't live without her, since everything else was good. She said she wouldn't because they argued quite a lot - but I pointed out they only really argued about the commitment aspect.

Should I press her then with this line of questioning, to at least to get her to examine her own real feelings on the matter? 

[ExpatInItaly]

2 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

She told me from the start she preferred to tell the MM in person about us and end the previous relationship cleanly and give it closure. I respect her decision and was completely fine with that, until more recently when the MM began to more openly pine for her, saying he's been dreaming about her etc. My GF doesn't conceal any of this and shares with me what the MM says. What I'm having some difficulty with is that each time the MM says something along those personal lines (which is increasing in frequency) my GF replies asking him to remain friends since he can't give her what she wants and that she wants to find someone who can. She would only tell him about me when she sees him in person next year 

No, no, no, and even more nope. 

Gigantic red flags here, OP. This shouldn't even be an issue because she should have been well rid of him before even starting a new relationship. The fact that she needs to meet a married man in person to tell him she has a boyfriend? You respect her decision to disrespect your relationship like that?

My man, with kindness, you need to find your backbone and give your head a shake. It is ludicrous to "be fine" with that. This woman is not dating material right now. If she was at all serious about you, she would have no problem dropping this guy. There would be no "closure" needed, no concealing your relationship, no need for any of this BS. She's doing this because she's still in love with him and hoping he'll leave his wife. I promise you that she's not neglecting to mention you as a way to protect his feelings or end this; she's doing this because she knows if she tells him she has a boyfriend he will likely stop pining for her. You're essentially just keeping her company while she holds out hope for this guy. 

Sorry OP, but this is a dead end. She isn't in any place to have a healthy and truly committed relationship with you. This man is still taking up too much rent in her heart and mind. I would leave her to it, and find a woman who has no exes or not-really-exes hanging around, who has no reason to hide you from anyone. 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

Should I press her then with this line of questioning, to at least to get her to examine her own real feelings on the matter? 

She is  not going to tell YOU anything.
I guess you are plan B, so not in her best interests to dissuade you.
She needs you as a back up should her MM not come through for her.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

But odds are she's resuming the work arrangement, a 2-3 months on the roads one, and prefers to keep the friendship she and the MM had before the affair intact. 

Step way back, and good you are guarding your heart. Don't be filler for when her lover isn't handy. Keep in mind, cheating is something she is quite comfortable with. 

[carhill]

3 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

Thoughts, anyone?

We used a tool in MC to work through such issues, called the 'shoe on other foot' tool. Here start easy, take the whole 'MM' stuff out of the equation. Discuss how she would feel if you were having regular contact with a past lover/partner/spouse with whom you had no children but rather a working relationship and such contact related to 'being friends' because the former lover/partner/spouse 'couldn't give me what I wanted'.. In fact, perhaps you have some good examples, female friends or past lovers or wives, how does that go with you and her? What I'm looking for is a typical relationship schism, hypocrisy. It's not an indictment, rather a typical human behavior that can create relationship strife and can impede and impact elemental relationship boundaries. 

I'm old, seen tons of MW/OW's in life and am impressed in general when I'm with a woman who isn't a menopausal hypocritical freak, I generally don't worry about them at all. Enjoy the moment, when it's over move on, one strong lesson marriage and divorce taught me. Up to you, she's your GF. IMO you do you and it'll shake out. If she's still there holding your hand at the end and not with fMM, then there ya go.

[BaileyB]

While I appreciate her attempt to end the affair and finding another relationship... it would not ever be with me if she was still communicating regularly with her married affair partner. That would be a hard no, absolute deal breaker.

If she is still communicating with the man, they are still in a relationship together. They may not be having sex, but the affair continues...

[S2B]

It wouldn’t work for me if she was still communicating with her previous MM.

why can’t she fire him? Why can’t she look for another job? Has she offered these solutions?

why are you afraid to draw a line/boundary? Tell her what you need! I don’t see why you think that’s controlling... it’s called stating what YOU need within a relationship to feel safe. If she doesn’t want to do it then that tells you what YOU need to know.

she will either change the dynamics with her former MM or she won’t... and that makes the decision for your relationship.

 

the continued communicating with her former MM is an ego boost for HER. It’s disguised as “work talk” and that’s just a little TOO convenient. The bottom line is she gets something from it while it hurts your feelings - and you need to tell her that you don’t like the dynamics of it.

if she won’t change the dynamics of it you have an answer you’ve been wondering about.

 

[FMW]

She hasn't told him about you and she hasn't firmly ended their personal relationship because she's not ready to let go of him. There is absolutely no legitimate reason she can't text/email or even call him and make it clear she's with you and whatever they had is over and done for good.

You're very likely to get hurt in this situation.    

[snowcones]

Seriously, what is her reason for needing to tell him in person?  I am of the opinion that married men don't deserve a goddang thing in terms of respect and consideration.  They behave with ultimate disrespect and inconsideration towards the single woman.    She should treat him like dirt and he'd better like it too.  If he doesn't, then he can go back to his wife and leave single lady alone!

Definitely tell her she needs to end all non-work communication with him or you're out.

Edited November 1, 2020 by snowcones

[salparadise]

7 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

And she ask me if I wanted her to tell the MM now about us. I told her that the final decision has to be hers to make alone and I'll continue to respect whatever decision she arrives at. I don't want to be jealous, controlling, and want to be above it all and be kind and supportive to her way of closing this loop.

Oh man, you're so concerned about not appearing jealous/controlling that you're looking right past a huge reason you actually should be.  She has TWO relationships now. You are the Other Woman's OM. Yup, do you really think she's going to start traveling with this guy again and things will be as if the affair never happened? Pfffft. She's going to be sleeping with him again, then back to you when he goes back to his wife. 

Even if I was going to get involved with such a woman, I'd insist that she terminate him and cut all communication, and going on the road with him again would be out of the question. What a mess.

Most people are born with a strong sense of self preservation –– what happened to yours?

Edited November 1, 2020 by salparadise

[Mystery4me]

She's playing you for a fool and you can't even see it.

She should not be communicating with him at all. No excuses. You need to set some boundaries. If she continues to communicate with him then you end the relationship.

[mark clemson]

7 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

... when she sees him in person next year and resume their previous work arrangement, traveling up and down the state together. She assures me that nothing would happen (or restart) since she has stronger feelings for me than she ever did for him.

Thoughts, anyone?

Hmmm. My thought is "NO". If it was me, the likelihood of this actually not restarting once they start traveling again would be too low for me to accept. They will be on equal footing - he will have his wife, she will have you.

Generally I say if there's a friend you really don't want your partner having, respectfully ask them to end the friendship. That goes double for Exes (which this is, MM or no). However, she works with the guy and she can't fire him without the prospect of retaliation (such as lawsuit). He has some leverage over her. And they will be staying in the same hotel on a regular basis ?? No way. This has relapse written all over it.

If it were me, I would end it now or whenever is realistic in the near future, before you have to much more in "sunken costs". Sorry...

[SincereOnlineGuy]

7 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

I told her that the final decision has to be hers to make alone and I'll continue to respect whatever decision she arrives at. I don't want to be jealous, controlling, and want to be above it all and be kind and supportive to her way of closing this loop.

But I have mixed feelings; my insecurities are speaking out here. 

Thoughts, anyone?

This has little to do with jealousy and being supportive or controlling.

 

Just stop being a doormat.

 

You'll feel better in the morning.

 

 

 

[12inquire]

Just leave

[Uruktopi]

8 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

And she ask me if I wanted her to tell the MM now about us.

But I have mixed feelings; my insecurities are speaking out here. 

"And she ask me if I wanted her to tell the MM now about us." That is the right thing to do. Make this happen with no delay, now.

"...my insecurities are speaking out here." You are not "insecure" about what MAY happen. You don´t  like what is actually happening as enough. And you are right.   

[Uruktopi]

7 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

She asked me if I wanted to set any boundaries for her and him and she'd heed them, but I told such boundaries can only be drawn by her of her own volition.

"She asked me if I wanted to set any boundaries for her and him and she'd heed them" First, main and no negotiable boundary should be to let the OM she already choosed you and not him. And that message should be firm, clear, whithout ambiguities and delivered now. 

The second one is a natural extension of the first. That is, he is no more allowed to pursue her, flirt with her nor put her in the need to stop his advances by stronger means, as she should with no hesitation. No grey interpretations abot it.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Uruktopi

[Lotsgoingon]

Dude you are right to feel insecure and to be alarmed. Your gf's response to MM is terrible.  She can't say she's dating you--why can't she say this over zoom? We're saying everything over zoom and on the phone these days. People have virtual sex over zoom these days. You have a right to want to hear her say, "I'm happily dating someone now. And no, we are done. I don't want to talk about this anymore." She is prioritizing his feelings over yours. And he's married, and shouldn't be any kind of priority. 

It's hard enough to be dating someone who just recently came out of a relationship with someone married. The person in your position will inevitably feel some insecurity upon learning that. OK, so you got past that. Credit you for being open and working hard to not let your insecurities get in the way.

But now she refuses to tell MM about you. Nope. No way. Nada. That's not going to work.  You really should prepare yourself to leave this relationship. Something is wrong about this woman--that she can't acknowledge you. Either she's cowardly, or she's still attached to her ex or she's not that into you, despite what she says. It could be any combination of these issues or all three!

Now here's the hardest part. I can tell you really like her, and I can tell you want her to reassure you. The hard challenge is to face up to the uncomfortable reality: something is SERIOUSLY wrong when this woman refuses to tell her ex MM about you. Period! There is no exception here. Someone can't do that, then something odd or funky is going on, and her words do not matter here. That's the hard part. She's giving you words. Dude, the actions speak for how she feels and how she will act in the rest of the relationship. If you fall for her words, I got news for you.

I can guarantee that in a month or so, you're going to be back on this board, reporting that she has returned to ex MM. Or she's going to tell you she really wasn't that into you, and she needed a "break" and yada yada. She'll either return to her ex or dump you or ... do something else that triggers your insecurity--like not tell her friends or family about you. You with me?

People who are acting like your gf almost always dump their partners--that's you brother.  Get out now. 

 

[Bonifidelifelover]

I’m with Everyone else... why in the doohickey does she owe him an in person closure Meeting & informing him of you in her life????....

wait, I can tell u why! Because if she does it in person there’s a better chance they’ll have this heated, passionate love struggle, and she’s hoping he’ll grab her confess his love & tell her he doesn’t want that! And SHE knows that! She ain’t dumb! It sounds dramatic, like it’s something out of a movie or love novel, but it’s exactly what these people in these situations thrive off! The fantasty, the dramatics!  
 

And my perception is that you don’t want to speak up, Set boundaries & give ultimatums to her, Is because ur scared it’ll, in Turn make her drop u like a hot potato! I think you get that feeling as well. So that’s why you act like “oh I just want to respect her decisions” “it’s up to you honey”!! Pffft! 
 

I think she likes the MM fawning over her, pining for her, and she’s not ready to let that all go just yet. She’s stringing u along. Sorry 

Edited November 1, 2020 by AngelinaCassy

[DKT3]

This is simple if you focus on her actions and ignore her words.

The affair has never been over or she would be able to tell him she is dating someone else.  

My guess is she is stalling on telling him because she still has hope of a relationship with him. 

The bigger problem for you is either way (she tells him or not) she is in no position to start a healthy relationship working towards long-term.  A smart move would be removing yourself from her toxic life.

[MJJean]

Tell her you will be glad to wait for her to tell her MM about you in person provided she tells his wife about them at the same time. Otherwise, tell her to pound sand. She's still involved with him emotionally and they aren't just friends or just co-workers, either. $5 says their affair resumes when they begin travelling together again.

[Commongoal123]

Dude, I don't think these are your insecurities talking.  On some level, it is your intuition.  Maybe not exactly on the nose accurate, but it's definitely speaking to you with a sense of reality.

From an outside perspective looking in on your situation....

She's still communicating with an "ex".  Who is married.  And also wanting to remain friends with him.

1)  What type of person dates a married person when the married couple isn't at least separated... preaumably behind the back of the married woman?  Is that someone you want to trust?

2)  Are you 100% sure that it was his inability to commit to her that made them "breakup"?  Or do you think it could be due to Covid-19... you say you've been with her for 7 months.  That timing is beyond coincidental...

3)  What's her drive to remain friends with this guy?  Usually women do this to keep from feeling "unwanted" by an ex.

I'm sorry man, but I truly believe you're in for some heartbreak (at most) or disappointment (at least).

Get out while you can on your own terms.  This is not going to be a long term thing with her.  She clearly "guy hops".  It takes a person a long time of being single to figure out what they want.

All I can say is I'm sorry.  I think your "insecurities" and your intuition are one in the same here.

Don't think in terms of "either/or".  Think in terms of "and".