My GF was the OW in her previous relationship. Some thoughts/insecurities I need to air

[Uruktopi]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

It is amazing what nonsense many men will put up with for sex...
 

LOL!

I usually agree with most if not all of your posts.

THIS may deserve some side comment...fom a man´s (personal) view.

True, a lot of men (and women) remain married (and loyal) while scarce, poor or no sex. 

May be cos the memories of better times about, may be cos they hold hope this may become better....in a century or two ahead.

And THAT is another contradictory way to say the same.

 

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, EPC82 said:

The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. 

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

Everyone here enjoys painting ex OW's as a complete waste of time and space. Ugh. 

She's still tangled up with the MM and has not told him she's in a serious relationship. C'mon, if we're gonna cast an OM or OW in a story about redemption, we could find much better candidates, for instance people who end all contact with their MM or MW and set strong boundaries long BEFORE they get involved with a new girlfriend or boyfriend. This woman is out of her depth (if she actually believes what she's telling OP), and when she starts drowning, she's gonna drag OP down with her.

1 hour ago, EPC82 said:

It sounds like she is trying to navigate a professional relationship with her ex MM and she is being entirely transparent to her bf. What more do you folks want from her?

So all is going just fine? In that case, why is OP here? 

 

10 hours ago, Unsureaboutmyself said:

My goal is to get her to consider seriously the possibility of the MM leaving his wife - what would she do then after the one and only hurdle in their relationship is removed? And if she has indeed moved on for real, then clear boundaries have to be built, to prevent relapsing into the affair and safeguarding the relationships she truly cherishes (with me or someone else).

You really shouldn't be playing the role of a social worker/psychologist to your GF. That's a sign that you jumped into a relationship with her before she was ready to start a new relationship. All this stuff you guys are discussing about boundary setting and whatnot in this thread is stuff she should have navigated and put behind her before she started dating you. An analogy of what you're doing right now: dating an alcoholic who's been sober for five months and still works as a bartender. It's only a matter of time...

[Wiseman2]

The sex is great so this will be a games of musical chairs until you're out.🪑🎶

Edited November 2, 2020 by Wiseman2

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, EPC82 said:

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

 

In this woman's case? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. 

She is still avoiding being honest with her married man and telling him she has another boyfriend. She is allowing this guy to think she's still available and making silly excuses as to why she needs to wait until next year to tell him. 

That is not someone who has changed and moved on. 

[Commongoal123]

Dude just get out of this.

I am sorry to have to say this but you are making excuses for her and calling it "going somewhere" when the reality of the situation still is what it is.

 

It doesn't matter what she says, it matters what she does.

And it doesn't matter if you've spent time with rach others' families.  Trust me, been there...

And at the end of the day she is still gonna be talking to this guy all the time through work.... you really want that in your life?

I'm telling ya.... get out while you still can on your own terms and not through very painful and toxic circumstance.

I.e.... hers.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Commongoal123

[pepperbird2]

3 hours ago, EPC82 said:

There are plenty of relationships that end without closure. The lack of closure always plays inside a person's mind. It doesn't mean a person will never love properly again. 

If the ex OW is resolved to not be an OW anymore, if she wants to move on and build healthy, loving relationships, she can. 

No one in this thread knows this woman beyond the OP. It sounds like she is trying to navigate a professional relationship with her ex MM and she is being entirely transparent to her bf. What more do you folks want from her?

That she insists on keeping his as a friend has nothing to do with professionalism.

[pepperbird2]

3 hours ago, EPC82 said:

I recall, not too long ago some of you posters telling an OW that no man will want her because she was an OW once apon a time. This woman has found a man that wants her, baggage and all and you are trying to convince his to leave her. 

Moral of the story, anyone who has ever loved a married man should be alone forever, pining endlessly for her MM. 

That's the thing- she isn't here, but the OP is. All people have to go on is what he says. From the sound of it, this woman is poor relationship materials with poor boundaries. It doesn't make her evil incarnate, but it does warrant caution. 

The difference between her and many other OW is they made the break cleanly. they didn't waffle around, looking for excuses to keep their MM in their life. They were able to out the affair in their rear view mirror, but that's not what's going on here.

[mark clemson]

4 hours ago, EPC82 said:

I recall, not too long ago some of you posters telling an OW that no man will want her because she was an OW once apon a time. This woman has found a man that wants her, baggage and all and you are trying to convince his to leave her. 

Moral of the story, anyone who has ever loved a married man should be alone forever, pining endlessly for her MM. 

This is a fair point. I think the issue is that this particular OW is refusing to relinquish her MM in an expedient way AND she is likely to necessarily be in close contact with him again at some point in the future. The combination suggests that she isn't completely committed to OP or to ending the affair. She wants to maintain a "friendship" with an Ex, one who she is likely to be staying at the same hotel with at some future point. Furthermore, she made the error of starting a relationship with a subordinate at work.

IF those parameters were different, the advice OP is receiving would likely be different as well, and at least some of it might well be to "give her a chance", etc.

The prior poster you mention had a 4 year PA and wanted to move on relatively quickly. A decade down the road, she could be considered a safe partner (to many), but - who wants to wait that long? So IMO much of the advice in that thread fit her situation as well. (For example I advised her not to disclose it.)

I think you're right that to some former APs can never be good partners again (at least not without therapy and/or serious self-flagellation) but the posters here actually take a variety of perspectives. That's a positive thing, as OPs come in a variety of flavors and some simply don't accept even the "best" advice from someone who doesn't have a similar mindset.

[notbroken]

Not long term girlfriend/wife material.  Sorry.   She has gotten so used to leading people on and being around lies/manipulation that it will take quite a while to get out of that 'mode'.   Run.  Seriously.  It won't get easier.   Lying and cheating have become a way of life for her.  Yes. 

[Uruktopi]

10 hours ago, EPC82 said:

The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. 

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

 

"The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. " Honesty is a good thing but rarely enough. What honesty is about is unavoidable important.

"Are we honestly saying that people can't change..."  Of course people can change, what is only achieved by changing. Meassures by facts instead of by only intentions, it don´t seem to be what is happening.

"...and move on? " The only good path to move on by starts with solving what is left behind, rarely if ever with giving to it less importance. 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Uruktopi

[Bonifidelifelover]

^ that!!!

[Bonifidelifelover]

10 hours ago, EPC82 said:

The ex OW has been entirely upfront with OP. 

Are we honestly saying that people can't change and move on? 

Everyone here enjoys painting ex OW's as a complete waste of time and space. Ugh. 

noond is saying that. The issue is she’s clearly handling MM with baby gloves & that’s the biggest issue. Owing him anything like a big ol in person explanation is straight up still having feelings for him. If she didn’t she’d call him like the above poster says & she would be like hey! (In a Stern firm voice) You need to stop flirting with me, speaking to me the way u do! I have a new boyfriend & I owe him the respect. And you need to concentrate on ur wife! It’s over. We have no NEED to communication about anything other than work!!! 
 

Thats shat she needs to do! Not all this “owe I want to break it to him in person” and the OP being like “oh ok honey, whatever u feel is best”! 
 

cause that’s ridiculous!

[Bonifidelifelover]

She wants to do an in person because she cares about MMs feeling! And she shows the OP the messages or tells him because she likes two men desiring her. Straight up it’s a game she’s playing. 

[Bonifidelifelover]

11 hours ago, Prudence V said:

This may well have been true of your affair, but it was not true of mine, or of many others. 

So ur saying ur affair was like a normal relationship??? Huh ? I highly doubit it @Prudence V

[Bonifidelifelover]

10 hours ago, Acacia98 said:

She's still tangled up with the MM and has not told him she's in a serious relationship. C'mon, if we're gonna cast an OM or OW in a story about redemption, we could find much better candidates, for instance people who end all contact with their MM or MW and set strong boundaries long BEFORE they get involved with a new girlfriend or boyfriend. This woman is out of her depth (if she actually believes what she's telling OP), and when she starts drowning, she's gonna drag OP down with her.

An analogy of what you're doing right now: dating an alcoholic who's been sober for five months and still works as a bartender. It's only a matter of time...

Good analogy!!! Me: Clapping!!!! 

[S2B]

She still considering his “feelings” more than your relationship!

if she really wants to make your relationship a top priority - she would actually get a new job and never ever have another conversation with her MM again!

go ahead - test her out... tell her to find a new job ASAP. There’s not one single reason she owes that MM any explanation. If she won’t get a new job then she is actually looking forward to her travel time alone with her MM- and that’s a problem. She isn’t trying to build trust with you.

he is married - that’s enough of any explanation.

[Prudence V]

13 hours ago, AngelinaCassy said:

So ur saying ur affair was like a normal relationship??? Huh ? I highly doubit it @Prudence V

Believe what you want. We wouldn’t still be together (more than 15 years on) if it hadn’t. 

[Amethyst68]

This wouldn't be a good situation to be in if she had been in a relationship with a BF that was normal and above board who wanted to be back with her. 

The problem is she is keeping the hope alive for the 3rd party by not giving a hard no whist disrespecting her current boyfriend at the same time.  The fact she was an OW in the previous relationship is immaterial if it doesn't bother the OP. 

[Crazelnut]

It's been stated quite well by others on this thread, but let me throw in my 2 cents. Her actions indicate that she still cares about him. She cares about not hurting HIM more than she cares about not hurting YOU. Issue #1: She cannot and should not stay "friends" with her exMM. Issue#2: She cannot continue to work with him. Issue#3: She doesn't need to and shouldn't be meeting with him privately for "closure." All these issues indicate that she is still emotionally connected to him.  Most affairs are INTENSE. They aren't normal. It's impossibly hard to be "just friends" with an AP. People who hang on to AP's do so because they can't emotionally let go. 

Can people change? Yes. I'm proof of that. Has she changed? I see no indication of that with her. If she was serious about changing and ending things with him, she would get another job, tell him flat out that she's in another relationship and to never communicate again. 

How can any of this be okay with you?? How can you be fine with her traveling with him? With her giving more credence to HIS needs than to yours? If she was serious about ending things and moving on, she would just end it all. What do you think she would say if you asked her to get s different job and leave him alone?

Sorry, but your GF still has serious boundary issues with him.

[stillafool]

OP, if you gf still needs closure from some married man she shouldn't be with you.  She needs to straighten out her life before getting involved with another man.

[pepperbird2]

19 hours ago, stillafool said:

OP, if you gf still needs closure from some married man she shouldn't be with you.  She needs to straighten out her life before getting involved with another man.

This!
It wouldn't matter of the guy was married or not. She still has unfinished business with him that she really needs to sort through.

[Uruktopi]

On 11/4/2020 at 12:15 PM, Crazelnut said:

.....tell him flat out that she's in another relationship ............ 

Sorry, but your GF still has serious boundary issues with him.

To begin with....

[Lotsgoingon]

OP the red flag here (among many) is that you are working way too hard. Working way too hard emotionally, hiding your insecurity, trying to gently persuade someone to do something that is a requirement that THEY ought to do. That is, be willing to tell an ex that they are dating you now. And the desire to meet him in person--no, she can tell him now ... and if she thinks this guy needs it, later meet him in person. In a public place, that she announces to you. With a time limit and strict boundaries. 

Dude, her history is a triple whammy: not only did she cheat with a MM. But she also cheated with a MM who was a coworker and she cheated with a MM who is a  a subordinate! That's a lot of twisted baggage. At this stage of the relationship, you shouldn't be having to even ask the questions you asking. Trust me, if you're even asking why she's not tell MM about you, that's a major red flag ... and that behavior will come up again in the relationship. 

 

 

[sandylee1]

She's not over him. In this world of covid-19, every normal business activity is done on the phone, email or video meeting. 

She still has feelings for him. That meeting to tell has often ended up in one more for old times sake. 

If he said he was leaving his wife tomorrow and promised he would be with her,  you'd be dropped in a heartbeat. 

All this...I want us to be friends is just nonsense. 

A superior who has an intimate relationship at work is bad..but with a married person...yeah...I wouldn't want a serious relationship with her due to her character flaw. 

She hasn't learned anything from the affair and should be sensible enough to put her own boundaries in place, not acting like you're her dad and she's a teenager who messed up. 

[Crazelnut]

Unsureaboutmyself, we haven't heard from you in a while. What's going on?