Why are cheating spouses capable of reform, but OW's are not?

[EPC82]

The generally feeling in this forum is that all OW's are the devil, yet betrayed spouses believe that their wayward spouse is entirely capable of change and growth and healing. 

As an ex OW, I am familiar with the intoxicating, addiction which is an affair. This addiction is not only felt by the OW/OM. WS's feel it too. 

It seems like a crazy double standard to me. It takes two people to have an affair and its not usually the OW that love bombs and gaslights. 

Thoughts?

[Fletch Lives]

People stand up for who they like, and trash who they don't like.

OW's are not the devil. They just made a mistake. They broke the rule - they followed their heart and forgot that affairs with married people are trouble.

A lot of people don't think before they leap and just go with who they are attracted to - never mind if it's a good match or not, or if the person is single or married.

[Starswillshine]

It is because you are reading the OW forum and that is who the posts are about. 

If you are talking about BSs here... well, a BS loves their spouse and are willing to give them a chance because of shared life, etc. The BS owes nothing to the OW at all. There is zero connection. Your change is inconsequential to a BS. 

I'm sure my xWH's OW has experienced some change and growth. My xWH surely has not even though he sure puts up a front that he has. 

[carhill]

2 hours ago, EPC82 said:

Thoughts?

Haters will hate, that's who they are. Little surprise there, humans have been human for millennia. We're self-involved hypocrites at heart. Once you accept human hypocrisy and all the rest of typical human psychology and stop caring about others or their opinions, life gets easier. Take out the direct threats and leave the rest to their opinions, which will continue as long as breath is left in them. As some wise souls once opined early in the days of this forum, take away what is meaningful and leave the rest. Check in on friends and family and ensure those close  whom you love know you care. The rest is the rest.

[FMW]

Because the emotion and investment is with the wayward spouse.  Betrayed spouses - if they are going to remain married - need to believe that their spouse experienced a weakness that can be avoided in the future.  But that anger and pain has to be go somewhere, so it's aimed at the OW or OM.  They are the "other", the outsider. 

I've often gotten the feeling that some posters would forgive a murderer before they would forgive an OW especially, but also an OM.  Having an unfaithful spouse strikes at the very core of security and the strong need to be loved and cherished.  It's a threat and elicits a powerful response.  So again, if a marriage is going to be maintained, that powerful response has to have somewhere to go, because if it was all aimed at the wayward spouse there would be no hope for saving the marriage.      

[Starswillshine]

I would also like to add... I see much much more bashing of MMs here than I do of OW. 

I'm a former BS (I divorced his cheating self). I didnt blame the OW for his affair. I dont see too many BS blaming the OW for the affair. I see a lot of BS's here warning the OW that the story MM is giving to the OW is likely lies. 

The only thing I put onto the OW was her obsession with me and her harassing me. That is fully on her. She knew what she was getting into when she got involved with a married man, I was NOT to blame for it. 

[Acacia98]

3 hours ago, EPC82 said:

The generally feeling in this forum is that all OW's are the devil, yet betrayed spouses believe that their wayward spouse is entirely capable of change and growth and healing. 

I haven't read enough threads on the subject to know what the trend is. So you may very well be right.

But then again, it's possible you're biased and that's impacting your perception.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, EPC82 said:

The generally feeling in this forum is that all OW's are the devil, yet betrayed spouses believe that their wayward spouse is entirely capable of change and growth and healing. 

As an ex OW, I am familiar with the intoxicating, addiction which is an affair. This addiction is not only felt by the OW/OM. WS's feel it too. 

It seems like a crazy double standard to me. It takes two people to have an affair and its not usually the OW that love bombs and gaslights. 

Thoughts?

There is a difference between and OW/OM someone who has learned, feels remorseful for their part, gained insight and applies those lessons moving forward - and one who has not and is still engaging in the sort of behaviour that does not suggest change or growth. 

I am guessing you're referring to the OW from another active thread in the forums. The one in that particular thread has not demonstrated anything to suggest she's learned and changed. It does not mean that posters don't believe that no OW is capable of making positive steps. 

[FMW]

1 hour ago, Starswillshine said:

her obsession with me and her harassing me.

Yep, there are some bunny boilers out there!  

[MilaVaneela]

2 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

I'm a former BS (I divorced his cheating self). I didnt blame the OW for his affair. I dont see too many BS blaming the OW for the affair. I see a lot of BS's here warning the OW that the story MM is giving to the OW is likely lies. 

The only thing I put onto the OW was her obsession with me and her harassing me. That is fully on her. She knew what she was getting into when she got involved with a married man, I was NOT to blame for it. 

Same here on all counts. Divorced him, he was the one who cheated. Her? She harassed me, made violent threats against me and physically attacked me on one occasion. All of that was on her. 
 

As for the OP, I would like to respectfully submit that there are often posts about the betrayed spouse as well (and especially betrayed wives)... things like: we caused the affair by being inadequate as a partner and catty and disparaging remarks about our  appearance and body, career choice, intelligence or lack thereof, and other qualities.

Accordingly, a betrayed spouse must have no emotion toward being cheated on because if we show any anger at all we are immediately dismissed as “crazy”, “unstable” a “harridan”. If we want to keep a marriage it’s because we are “controlling” and “money hungry”. The cheated on spouse in so many words is just a major hindrance to the grand and epic love story for the ages... we must be physically flawless, always saintly in temperament, balance career and home to perfection... and if we fail at this, we must acknowledge our utter worthlessness as a life partner, hang our heads in shame and meekly hand over our spouse, children and home to someone far superior to ourselves before quietly fading into oblivion. 

This is obvious hyperbole, yes, and I’m sure that a majority of the posters here don’t believe it but at the same time, I think that one’s perspective can get a little skewed based on areas that they are particularly sensitive to. 

[FMW]

Again, I think the divide usually comes with the betrayed spouses that stay in the marriage and want to make it work.  Those that divorce the unfaithful spouses don't need to aim a load of vitriol at the affair partner.  

As far as blaming the betrayed spouse, that comes from the affair partners who are desperately wanting to believe what they have is true love.  The object of their love/obsession has to be given a reason for straying so they have to make out the spouse in such a negative way it that it was ok that their beloved strayed with them (and of course would NEVER do the same to them).

Creative reasoning.  Those outside of the bubble see it for what it is.   

[Nats_16]

I don’t think it is true that the BS thinks the MM is able to reform and the OW is not. It’s more to do with how the BS makes excuses for his behaviour in order to take him back after he has chosen to betray his wife/partner in the worst way. Not to say that some MM aren’t capable to change but in these circumstances she has to blame someone in order to eradicate any of the blame on her husband to accept him back.

[mark clemson]

47 minutes ago, FMW said:

Creative reasoning.  Those outside of the bubble see it for what it is.   

I'll take the other side of that in the sense that sometimes the BS really is a flawed or problematic partner and the WS really is deeply unhappy. They may want to stay in the marriage for a variety of reasons, but their emotional needs aren't being met, so they look outside for a band aid in the form of AP.

In the past, when an OW/OM posted there sometimes was a chorus of posters claiming the WS must be making that all up. How would they know? Not sure, but they sometimes seemed quite confident in that assertion. I felt in some cases like the poster was being fed baloney and so felt obliged to chime in with arguments to the contrary. I'm sure that sometimes that view is indeed correct, but it's more like (in the absence of data) a 50/50 chance (or whatever the actual ratio is).

I think that a certain (small) % of posters (for clarity, not @FMW) are significantly emotionally damaged from an affair to the extent they are out to bash or hurt any AP - OM/OW or WS. They tend to have pretty narrow viewpoints, be quite sanctimonious, and use a lot of unnecessary adjectives in their posts. There seem to be a lot fewer of them now than there were when I first started posting here.

Edited November 2, 2020 by mark clemson

[FMW]

28 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

sometimes the BS really is a flawed or problematic partner

Oh, absolutely, I agree.  But - cheating is still cheating.  The answer is to end the marriage before getting involved with someone else.  I know there are a lot of reasons that make people think they can't leave the marriage, but unless the married couple mutually agree to open the marriage, it's still cheating.  Each partner is responsible for their behavior in the marriage, and betrayed spouses usually aren't saints (none of us are).  But the partner who strays is 100% responsible for making that choice to cheat.  

I've been on both sides of this issue, so I certainly can't get sanctimonious either way.  But I think it's important to be real.   

[Uruktopi]

11 hours ago, EPC82 said:

The generally feeling in this forum is that all OW's are the devil, yet betrayed spouses believe that their wayward spouse is entirely capable of change and growth and healing. 

As an ex OW, I am familiar with the intoxicating, addiction which is an affair. This addiction is not only felt by the OW/OM. WS's feel it too. 

It seems like a crazy double standard to me. It takes two people to have an affair and its not usually the OW that love bombs and gaslights. 

Thoughts?

First things first, I would make no significative difference between an OW and an OM. Not a gender thing for me.

An OW as much as an OM can change as all people may. And as all people they may also do not.

Perhaps the focus on each individual puts some fog in other relevant aspects about relationships.

What happens with betrayals to exclusivity is that there are more "teams" than the betrayed ones expect it to be.

Two "teams" instead of only one, when the OM or OW is "single" (not also betraying another one).

Three "teams" instead of only two in the other also common alternative.

Think it  for a moment in the view of a Greek philosopher (forgot whom) who compared couple infidelity with the betrayal of a comrade during a battle.

So....only when an intent of reconciliation is made, each betrayed one takes (or hopes, probably wishful thinking) as if the former traitor is bringing back his / her loyalty to the original "team" and breaking the"additional" alliance with  the OM / OW against "them".

While the OM / OW is still the ennemy.  Not necessarily a personal one, but an ennemy of the relationship.

They can´t offer a lot to the betrayed, so there is not an emotional reasson for a softer oppinion on him / her.

This view doesn't make a moral judgement on the OW / OM. But a a descrition of it´s position in the conflict of loyalties.

Does it make any sense to you?

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Uruktopi

[Uruktopi]

1 minute ago, Uruktopi said:

Duplicate, sorry

 

 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Uruktopi
Duplicate

[BaileyB]

I don’t agree with your assertion at all. 

I can appreciate why a BS would hope and pray that their spouse is capable of change. It seems reasonable to me that one would want to forgive, to reconcile if possible, given all that is invested in the marriage, the family, the finances - the past and the future. 

Whether it’s wise to take the risk - to stay and discover whether your spouse has the character, the integrity, and the capacity to change - is another matter entirely. 

As for the other women, I find that the saddest posts on this site are the lonely women, young and old, who place their trust unwisely in a MM who takes advantage of their naivety and trust. (Or vice-versa, because there are some men who find themselves in a similar situation). I would like to think that these women are capable of change - that they take something from the experience, and make a different choice for themselves after some serious self reflection.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by BaileyB

[pepperbird2]

Saying this gently, I would suggest that these sorts of blanket statements about why a BS does what he or she does or feels how they feel are, well, hogwash.

BS feel like they do based on what they have experienced. I had to deal with a OW who was, well, dealing with some mental health issues . I openly admit that for a long time, I was angry at her. To an outsider looking in, it might have looked like I was placing unfair blame on her, but the reality?

She was a stalker and I had to get law enforcement involved to get her to leave me and my children alone. For some reason, my guess is because I refused to compete with her, she developed a weird obsession. Dozens of calls, emails, sitting outside my home in her car watching my kids, play, suicide threats, etc. She even tried to convince my spouse I was cheating on him by sending him anonymous emails.

This sort of nonsense went on for more than ten years. Every so often, I'll get a message from her, which I send straight to the trash bin. if I wanted to, I could have her arrested and charged with harassment, but she's a mom and I don't want to do that to her. her kids need her.

Now I know some will say "it's your spouse's fault for bringing her into your life. I agree. However, the only one responsible for her behaviour is her. If she can't move on after all this time, she needs some psychological help.

 

[pepperbird2]

21 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

I would also like to add... I see much much more bashing of MMs here than I do of OW. 

I'm a former BS (I divorced his cheating self). I didnt blame the OW for his affair. I dont see too many BS blaming the OW for the affair. I see a lot of BS's here warning the OW that the story MM is giving to the OW is likely lies. 

The only thing I put onto the OW was her obsession with me and her harassing me. That is fully on her. She knew what she was getting into when she got involved with a married man, I was NOT to blame for it. 

With these sorts of people., the blame will forever and always be placed on someone else. It's your fault! In her mind, you should have just given up and gone away.

[Starswillshine]

13 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

Saying this gently, I would suggest that these sorts of blanket statements about why a BS does what he or she does or feels how they feel are, well, hogwash.

BS feel like they do based on what they have experienced. I had to deal with a OW who was, well, dealing with some mental health issues . I openly admit that for a long time, I was angry at her. To an outsider looking in, it might have looked like I was placing unfair blame on her, but the reality?

She was a stalker and I had to get law enforcement involved to get her to leave me and my children alone. For some reason, my guess is because I refused to compete with her, she developed a weird obsession. Dozens of calls, emails, sitting outside my home in her car watching my kids, play, suicide threats, etc. She even tried to convince my spouse I was cheating on him by sending him anonymous emails.

This sort of nonsense went on for more than ten years. Every so often, I'll get a message from her, which I send straight to the trash bin. if I wanted to, I could have her arrested and charged with harassment, but she's a mom and I don't want to do that to her. her kids need her.

Now I know some will say "it's your spouse's fault for bringing her into your life. I agree. However, the only one responsible for her behaviour is her. If she can't move on after all this time, she needs some psychological help.

 

I wonder when it will it will stop. I thought it was bad enough to still be harassed 4 years later, but sheesh, 10 years? 

 

7 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

With these sorts of people., the blame will forever and always be placed on someone else. It's your fault! In her mind, you should have just given up and gone away.

I even gave up and went away, and I guess it is STILL my fault. Funny how I didn't have power while I was married to him, but apparently, I have lots of power over him while we are divorced. 

[pepperbird2]

3 minutes ago, Starswillshine said:

I wonder when it will it will stop. I thought it was bad enough to still be harassed 4 years later, but sheesh, 10 years? 

 

I even gave up and went away, and I guess it is STILL my fault. Funny how I didn't have power while I was married to him, but apparently, I have lots of power over him while we are divorced. 

It's not common now, just every so often. I heard a while back through the grape vine that she's marred now and her husband isn't exactly a loyal guy. I feel bad for her- she has young kids, and I wouldn't wish being the BS on anyone.

[Camper]

I cannot speak for all, but in my case... upon my discovery of the affair, my H immediately said he wanted to end it, and in fact had tried several times to end it, but the OW would not go quietly. He has not seen her in months but she emails him daily. He has told her several times that she needs to stop. She even sends a gift from time to time. H does not respond to her except for his requests to back off. He's essentially ghosting her. We have not gone the restraining order route because she is mentally unstable (BPD I think) and could become volatile.

So some OWs just don't get the message and continue to try and interfere in the married couple's life. 

Edited November 4, 2020 by Camper

[Wiseman2]

Usually the other woman/other man is a scapegoat. People don't want to accept that thier spouse is a lying snake and that thier marriage has been in the toilet for a while because of thier lying, cheating spouses.

This is why people like phrases such as "homewrecker", to shift the blame away from thier own bad choices in staying with a selfish cheater.

Anyone involved in affairs either as the cheater or the other one involved is bound to have heartaches.

More importantly, the victim of the cheating needs to wake up and realize that thier spouse is the culprit. Not waste time in marriage therapy trying to "heal", only for it to happen again.

[elaine567]

9 hours ago, Camper said:

I cannot speak for all, but in my case... upon my discovery of the affair, my H immediately said he wanted to end it, and in fact had tried several times to end it, but the OW would not go quietly. He has not seen her in months but she emails him daily. He has told her several times that she needs to stop. She even sends a gift from time to time. H does not respond to her except for his requests to back off. He's essentially ghosting her. We have not gone the restraining order route because she is mentally unstable (BPD I think) and could become volatile.

So some OWs just don't get the message and continue to try and interfere in the married couple's life. 

Be careful here.
Yes there are crazy people around who will not take no for an answer, but I guess most of these women "hanging on", do so for a reason
Something her MM is doing is giving her hope, meanwhile he is telling you what you want to hear.

 

[DKT3]

The wayward spouses are in established relationships that are interwoven on all fronts. Having had a history with that person they have been seen in better times. OW are just seen as the problem.

OP, maybe I'm wrong but are you actually a MW?