Why are cheating spouses capable of reform, but OW's are not?

[mark clemson]

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Usually the other woman/other man is a scapegoat. People don't want to accept that thier spouse is a lying snake and that thier marriage has been in the toilet for a while because of thier lying, cheating spouses.

Or because of them. 'Cause denial.

[Beca L]

On 11/3/2020 at 4:04 AM, BaileyB said:

As for the other women, I find that the saddest posts on this site are the lonely women, young and old, who place their trust unwisely in a MM who takes advantage of their naivety and trust. (Or vice-versa, because there are some men who find themselves in a similar situation). I would like to think that these women are capable of change - that they take something from the experience, and make a different choice for themselves after some serious self reflection.

 

Thanks @BaileyBfor your understanding in regards to OW. As an OW in NC I am trying to make a change as has been suggested.  I do sometimes wish that I had never ever got involved with my xMM but I did and I am responsible for my choice. Unlike others on this site my XMM did leave within a few months and we spent a year together and were planning marriage and a future together until he returned to BS 13 months later. I was taken advantage of and if any good comes from this terrible life experience for me is that I will never make such a bad choice again. ATM I don't feel like I could ever trust a man again and I feel scarred for life. The saddest thing is that this man who used me and broke my heart is still in my life in a way, as we work in the same building. If I see him now I just put my head down and walk past. Sad, very sad

[Beca L]

11 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Be careful here.
Yes there are crazy people around who will not take no for an answer, but I guess most of these women "hanging on", do so for a reason
Something her MM is doing is giving her hope, meanwhile he is telling you what you want to hear.

 

I agree. These men lie and lie and lie. They do whatever suits them and their agenda. I was misled for 2 years and kept hanging on by my xmm, he was telling me he was leaving again to be with me. If is wife knew anything I'm sure he would have told her a similar story  as @Camperis getting, that I wouldn't leave him alone and was stalking etc. These men are not to be trusted at all. 

[pepperbird2]

14 hours ago, Beca L said:

I agree. These men lie and lie and lie. They do whatever suits them and their agenda. I was misled for 2 years and kept hanging on by my xmm, he was telling me he was leaving again to be with me. If is wife knew anything I'm sure he would have told her a similar story  as @Camperis getting, that I wouldn't leave him alone and was stalking etc. These men are not to be trusted at all. 

That can happen, but there's also the small number of Ow and OM as well who refuse to let go.
I know for a fact how long the affair between my husband and his ow lasted. It was just shy of three weeks. Just three weeks.
If he had been single and she was still reacting to the breakup more than ten years later, people would not blame him. They question why she can't move on.

[Beca L]

2 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

That can happen, but there's also the small number of Ow and OM as well who refuse to let go.
I know for a fact how long the affair between my husband and his ow lasted. It was just shy of three weeks. Just three weeks.
If he had been single and she was still reacting to the breakup more than ten years later, people would not blame him. They question why she can't move on.

Yes I can see that 10 years over a 3 week affair seems over the top. Are you sure it was only 3 weeks ? can you really believe what your H is telling you ? It may have been longer or it may still be going on. Don't want to upset you but WS are liars and not to be trusted. 

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Beca L said:

Yes I can see that 10 years over a 3 week affair seems over the top. Are you sure it was only 3 weeks ? can you really believe what your H is telling you ? It may have been longer or it may still be going on. Don't want to upset you but WS are liars and not to be trusted. 

I understand where you're coming from and can see how it could make someone suspicious.
I know how long it lasted because it started about three weeks after she was posted to my husband's squadron. That's where they met each other. It ended a couple of weeks before he was deployed. The whole thing, from him meeting her to him leaving was less than three months.

[Beca L]

1 minute ago, pepperbird2 said:

I understand where you're coming from and can see how it could make someone suspicious.
I know how long it lasted because it started about three weeks after she was posted to my husband's squadron. That's where they met each other. It ended a couple of weeks before he was deployed. The whole thing, from him meeting her to him leaving was less than three months.

I understand. So he has not seen her since those few weeks, 10 years ago ? I don't understand why she still hasn't moved on. 

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Beca L said:

I understand. So he has not seen her since those few weeks, 10 years ago ? I don't understand why she still hasn't moved on. 

I really believe she's mentally ill.

[Beca L]

11 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

I really believe she's mentally ill.

Sounds like it. 

[EPC82]

On 11/4/2020 at 1:50 PM, DKT3 said:

The wayward spouses are in established relationships that are interwoven on all fronts. Having had a history with that person they have been seen in better times. OW are just seen as the problem.

OP, maybe I'm wrong but are you actually a MW?

 

I was in the beginning. There was a DDay and I told my husband I was unhappy and wanted to end our marriage. I was a OW for nearly 3 years post separation. 

I am free now. I went NC in August and he did contact me (sneakily) several weeks later. 

For me, once the affair fog cleared and I saw it all for what it actually was, I just couldn't unsee it, unsee him for who he is. Eeww.

I suppose I made this post because it seemed to me that the blame often falls harder on the OW. I believe that I was just being defensive because the replies on here have shown me that I likely was wrong. 🙂

Its always so much more complicated that it seems. 

 

[Beca L]

27 minutes ago, EPC82 said:

I was in the beginning. There was a DDay and I told my husband I was unhappy and wanted to end our marriage. I was a OW for nearly 3 years post separation. 

I am free now. I went NC in August and he did contact me (sneakily) several weeks later. 

For me, once the affair fog cleared and I saw it all for what it actually was, I just couldn't unsee it, unsee him for who he is. Eeww.

I suppose I made this post because it seemed to me that the blame often falls harder on the OW. I believe that I was just being defensive because the replies on here have shown me that I likely was wrong. 🙂

Its always so much more complicated that it seems. 

 

In my personal experience the WS has not changed or reformed at all and personally I don't think they do. I was a single OW and my MM left and we were together for a year. He missed his adult sons who had disowned him and his life so he went back and his xW took him back and I was to blame, after 13 months of being together and living together it was all my fault ! Personally I think the BS changes, they are desperate to keep the WS and their life. I think they do as many have said on this post, they are in denial and are deluded about how badly behaved their WS is. They are quick to blame the OW/OM  and they set about reinventing themselves and bending over backwards to convince the WS they made the correct decision to stay. They believe all the lies that the WS tells them. 

I've been reading stories on this board for over 8 months and your story is repeated over and over. Most WS (MW) leave their H and start divorce after an affair as they realise the reason they started the affair is that something was seriously wrong in their marriage and they had been unhappy for years. The MM never leaves after d-day and they continue to pursue OW secretly when it suits them, all behind the poor unsuspecting BS's back. Shocking. 

So no,  I think the majority of WS do not reform. 

[DKT3]

26 minutes ago, Beca L said:

In my personal experience the WS has not changed or reformed at all and personally I don't think they do. I was a single OW and my MM left and we were together for a year. He missed his adult sons who had disowned him and his life so he went back and his xW took him back and I was to blame, after 13 months of being together and living together it was all my fault ! Personally I think the BS changes, they are desperate to keep the WS and their life. I think they do as many have said on this post, they are in denial and are deluded about how badly behaved their WS is. They are quick to blame the OW/OM  and they set about reinventing themselves and bending over backwards to convince the WS they made the correct decision to stay. They believe all the lies that the WS tells them. 

I've been reading stories on this board for over 8 months and your story is repeated over and over. Most WS (MW) leave their H and start divorce after an affair as they realise the reason they started the affair is that something was seriously wrong in their marriage and they had been unhappy for years. The MM never leaves after d-day and they continue to pursue OW secretly when it suits them, all behind the poor unsuspecting BS's back. Shocking. 

So no,  I think the majority of WS do not reform. 

Truth is very few WS leave thier marriage for other people,  women leave slightly more then men but both are rare.

Betrayed husband’s don't really stay with unfaithful wives.  This site and a few others aren't a true measure of this, most men simply walk away from cheating wives. 

The number of Betrayed wives that stay is on the decline and drops significantly with wives who earn enough to be on thier own. 

Upon finding out about the affair,  Betrayed spouses are in a state of panic however,  this idea that they are desperate to keep a cheater in thier life is not true. 

 

[DKT3]

1 hour ago, EPC82 said:

I was in the beginning. There was a DDay and I told my husband I was unhappy and wanted to end our marriage. I was a OW for nearly 3 years post separation. 

I am free now. I went NC in August and he did contact me (sneakily) several weeks later. 

For me, once the affair fog cleared and I saw it all for what it actually was, I just couldn't unsee it, unsee him for who he is. Eeww.

I suppose I made this post because it seemed to me that the blame often falls harder on the OW. I believe that I was just being defensive because the replies on here have shown me that I likely was wrong. 🙂

Its always so much more complicated that it seems. 

 

Complicated usually translates to knowing what should be done and not wanting to do it. Affairs are hardly ever complicated. Normally just two people being selfish and not wanting to do what needs to be done. Like leaving a marriage that your not happy in, or not sleeping with someone else spouse. Not of that is all that Complicated.  Divorce is a difficult decision to make, but not at all Complicated once the decision is made. 

[Beca L]

7 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

Betrayed spouses are in a state of panic however,  this idea that they are desperate to keep a cheater in thier life is not true. 

I agree this might be the case around d-day but 13 months later they are no longer in a panic. I disagree, most BW are happy to forgive and forget, especially those in +25 marriage. In my case this happened and she ignored the fact that he was continuing to contact me even when she discovered emails 12 months after he had returned. I accept my part and regret continuing a relationship with him after he went back but I believed all his lies that he was going to leave her again and that he was deeply in love with me. 

If, as you say, the numbers of WS leaving their marriages for other people is low then surely this proves my point. WS are only able to stay in their marriage because BS are very quick to forgive, accept lies and bad behaviour and blame the OW, otherwise they would be out on the street with the belongings in black bags.  

[elaine567]

I believe many BSs are desperate to  keep a cheater in their life.
Many, especially women, have a lot to lose.
Financial security, their home, their status as a married woman... 
They are often facing life as a divorced single mother and need to rejoin the working world, not part time but as a person who needs to earn a decent living whilst juggling child care...
She will be thrown back onto the dating market, something she probably never previously considered doing...
If she can keep her cheating husband, then that would be a bonus...  no-one likes change that is foisted upon them, of course many will be desperate to get things back to "normal"  and keep the status quo for her and her kids.

[MrPlop]

OW/OM are not the devil, you'll always be subject to unwanted advances or start those advances yourself, is up to you to go through with them.

Edited November 5, 2020 by MrPlop

[Beca L]

18 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Many, especially women, have a lot to lose.
Financial security, their home, their status as a married woman... 

I agree and more so with older women. The kids have left home and they have spent years bringing up the family and supporting the MM and keeping home. If they don't have their own career and (as someone said earlier) they are not financially independent then they are usually desperate to keep the cheater. The massive change of having to sell the family home, get a full time job, move into a small home or flat and suddenly be living on your own at 50+ is far worse than the alternative of taking back your lying, no good, cheating spouse and blaming the OW for causing the whole thing !

[EPC82]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

Complicated usually translates to knowing what should be done and not wanting to do it. Affairs are hardly ever complicated. Normally just two people being selfish and not wanting to do what needs to be done. Like leaving a marriage that your not happy in, or not sleeping with someone else spouse. Not of that is all that Complicated.  Divorce is a difficult decision to make, but not at all Complicated once the decision is made. 

To say an affair isn't complicated is to reduce the who thing down to good decisions vs. bad decisions. You completely disregard the complexities of the human condition. We are not robots with basic settings. People aren't organized into good and bad categories. We are allll capable of being both good and bad. 

Honestly, when I said "its complicated" I was actually referring to BS vs. OW vs. MM. The whole sorted, messy, painful thing. It is as complicated as it gets. 

I feel like I could write a novel about how complicated it is!

 

[Beca L]

36 minutes ago, EPC82 said:

Honestly, when I said "its complicated" I was actually referring to BS vs. OW vs. MM. The whole sorted, messy, painful thing. It is as complicated as it gets. 

I feel like I could write a novel about how complicated it is!

 

I feel the same and I feel your pain. This is the worst thing that has happened to me, worse than my divorce and tbh I'm still not 100% over it, just starting to accept it for what it really was. Your situation sounds just as complicated as mine but in different ways. I hope eventually we find love with decent, honourable men, who will want the best for us and put our needs and happiness to the forefront. 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:51 AM, EPC82 said:

The generally feeling in this forum is that all OW's are the devil, yet betrayed spouses believe that their wayward spouse is entirely capable of change and growth and healing. 

As an ex OW, I am familiar with the intoxicating, addiction which is an affair. This addiction is not only felt by the OW/OM. WS's feel it too. 

It seems like a crazy double standard to me. It takes two people to have an affair and its not usually the OW that love bombs and gaslights. 

Thoughts?

If sex wasn't offered up by OW, men couldn't cheat. 

[mark clemson]

Hmm. The entire concept of an EA is predicated on the idea that they could.

Even if women completely refused to engage with a married man at all, he could still "chase" - send her flirty texts and/or pics. If she blocked, he might continue to send them into the void.

That might be less like an affair and more like sexual harassment, but it's still quite clear he had an intent to stray, even if it's only one-sided.

Attitudes towards infidelity vary and apparently some % of people would attach more weight and significance to an EA vs. a short and purely physical PA, such as a ONS.

Edited November 6, 2020 by mark clemson

[Cookiesandough]

Of course it’s a double standard. But is it much of a shock that one holds a different standard for a WS who they presumably love and an AP, that allows them to forgive and move past it? Or that men are held to a different standard and seen as somehow less capable of controlling their sexual urges, only barely able to resist the wiles of jezebel?  
 

no. It’s not. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[pepperbird2]

15 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Of course it’s a double standard. But is it much of a shock that one holds a different standard for a WS who they presumably love and an AP, that allows them to forgive and move past it? Or that men are held to a different standard and seen as somehow less capable of controlling their sexual urges, only barely able to resist the wiles of jezebel?  
 

no. It’s not. 

It goes both ways. There's this belief that married men are like predators, chasing down naive single women who are too vulnerable to say "no".
I expect that happens sometimes, but more often ,it's just two people who, for whatever reason, decided to get involved. It;s nothing dramatic, there was no pressure, "luring" or anything like that.
In my opinion, it makes sense to blame the WS for his or her part and the OM/OW for their part. If a couple decides to reconcile, that individual will slowly become a non-entity in the relationship anyway.
As for the idea that " an ow/om has no responsibility to the BS", true enough I guess on its ace. However, that excuse is still pretty lame.

[Starswillshine]

I take a little offense to BS being happy to take back their lying, cheating, weak man and also to desperation. Yes, some BS take them back, and I guess some BS might be desperate to not lose half of their life/net worth/children/etc.... but I can tell you there is NOTHING happy about being a BS. And in my case, there was only one being desperate, and it certainly was not me. 

I find it common here to portray the BS as some weak woman who is also manipulating her man into staying with him/away from the OW. And also is to blame for the affair in the first place. 

 

[Beca L]

5 hours ago, Starswillshine said:

I take a little offense to BS being happy to take back their lying, cheating, weak man and also to desperation. Yes, some BS take them back, and I guess some BS might be desperate to not lose half of their life/net worth/children/etc.... but I can tell you there is NOTHING happy about being a BS. And in my case, there was only one being desperate, and it certainly was not me. 

I find it common here to portray the BS as some weak woman who is also manipulating her man into staying with him/away from the OW. And also is to blame for the affair in the first place. 

 

I can understand why you might feel like this and take offence. However if you have read the common themes on this site the story is the same, again and again. These WS are liars, dishonest, self centred and usually narcissistic. I'm not sure that I would be able to forgive and forget just because I have a shared history, life and family. Surely that is the reason why this person shouldn't have betrayed me in the first place, if they could do that to me, with no regard for my feelings they no longer deserve me. You may have your reasons for taking back your WS but if you read the stories on this site these WS continue to contact their affair partner, all behind the back of their unsuspecting spouse, after they return. It happens again and again. I'm just not sure I would ever be able to trust them or anything they say again.