I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[TobyBoy]

I gotta say, for a first time cheater mrs f is a pretty accomplished liar and gaslighther! She had many convince all was confessed. But something about the texts from SH made it seem like Mrs F was the pursuer/instigator. Like the roles were reversed from your standard affair.
 

Not to generalize but, it’s usually the woman in an affair that’s texting “can’t stop thinking about you “ and “I love you” ........ while the male doesn’t reciprocate and keeps any acknowledgement hidden.  
 

Mr F, I’m sorry but it would appear in your case, your wife was in it for the physical part of the affair , while SH was more emotional invested. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by TobyBoy

[Ruby Slippers]

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear about this development. On the other hand, now you know.

I have zero experience with cheating, but it really made sense to me when other posters said grownups don't make out in a car only - it's almost certain they're going to seal the deal. Also, the way she reacted with so much guilt when you first confronted her, the fact that she didn't immediately deny anything happened, suggested strongly to me that they did go all the way. Ugh.

[mark clemson]

28 minutes ago, WorldsSecondGreatestLover said:

The issue that has everyone outraged is "who destroyed the marriage."

It's the one that broke the vows that destroyed it.  Not the one who reacts.

Sure I shot you... but you have the nerve to bleed out!

I disagree. I don't see a marriage as defined by vows. I see it defined by a mutual decision to continue together.

You may see it differently, that's fine. However, in truth, plenty of marriages survive the breaking of vows. The breaking of (one of the) vows doesn't necessarily end the marriage. And in fact in some marriages there's a mutual decision to disregard that vow (ie, an open marriage).

So, logically, it's the decision to divorce that ends a marriage.

Now, to get back to OP, while I don't recommend divorce, I personally certainly wouldn't expect him to try to work on the marriage under these circumstances. It is (quite understandably) bringing him too much distress. I'm in agreement with your perspective in that sense.

You BS's tend to be logical cake eaters when it comes to these things. You want to have it both ways. The cheater chose to cheat instead of work on the marriage (in cases where they were actually unhappy). But the BS somehow can't choose to work on their marriage. Sorry, no, logically you can't have it both ways. Divorce is a choice, just like reconciling, cheating, etc are. In this case the BS is making that choice.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mark clemson

[Harry Korsnes]

13 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

I disagree. I don't see a marriage as defined by vows. I see it defined by a mutual decision to continue together.

You may see it differently, that's fine. However, in truth, plenty of marriages survive the breaking of vows. The breaking of (one of the) vows doesn't necessarily end the marriage. And in fact in some marriages there's a mutual decision to disregard that vow (ie, an open marriage).

So, logically, it's the decision to divorce that ends a marriage.

Now, to get back to OP, while I don't recommend divorce, I personally certainly wouldn't expect him to try to work on the marriage under these circumstances. It is (quite understandably) bringing him too much distress. I'm in agreement with your perspective in that sense.

You BS's tend to be logical cake eaters when it comes to these things. You want to have it both ways. The cheater chose to cheat instead of work on the marriage (in cases where they were actually unhappy). But the BS somehow can't choose to work on their marriage. Sorry, no, logically you can't have it both ways. Divorce is a choice, just like reconciling, cheating, etc are. In this case the BS is making that choice.

Imo she destroyed the marriage and the family, so he chose to end the marriage. 

[mark clemson]

^^ like everyone, you're welcome to your opinion. MANY people in the world have all sorts of opinions that don't stand up particularly well to logical scrutiny.

Your argument seems to hinge on a convenient (and IMO spurious) difference in definition between "destroy" and "end". If she had simply chosen to divorce him (instead of cheating) she would not be destroying the marriage?  Hmm. Nope.

I think she cheated, and he's ending the marriage (assuming that happens). It's really that simple.

[Dreamer2017]

It is that simple!!! She ended the marriage when she cheated.  It is up to Mr. F to offer an opportunity for the marriage to re-engage.  My opinion is totally logical!

[mark clemson]

16 minutes ago, Dreamer2017 said:

 My opinion is totally logical!

No, sorry, not logically accurate either, although I can see how it could be your opinion. But, for example, if the cheating had remained undiscovered the marriage would have continued merrily (or otherwise) on its way.

Infidelity, by definition, occurs within the context of an existing marriage. By your logic, only the first instance of infidelity would actually BE infidelity and all subsequent ones would just be regular romantic activities, outside of a marriage.

Using this logic, for some people, a marriage would be OVER at the first instance of some strong (but ultimately meaningless and trivial) flirting (as EA activity), whether the spouse was aware of it or not.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mark clemson

[Dreamer2017]

Sorry, your logic is not logical only your opinion.

[mark clemson]

I'd ask you to show how that's in fact true, but I feel that's probably not helpful to the OP at this point. You're welcome to start a thread defending the logic of your (IMO illogical) opinion, if you wish. I doubt it would stand up to scrutiny (as I've already shown above), but one never knows.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mark clemson

[Harry Korsnes]

If op disides to not destroy (divorce) the marriage and stay together for the children but not r. Then what is it she has done to the marriage and the family?

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Will post proper update later but it's good!

[trident_2020]

I've been following this topic without commenting but I have to ask what can possibly be good about any of this?

I sure hope she didn't just tell you what you wanted to hear and you accepted it without question.

 

[Had I Known]

Can't wait to hear how this is "good", but if you are happy then great....I guess.

Wife must have sold some SOLID proof in her defense, or maybe it is "good" because she was honest and admitted to it and won't contest the divorce?

Only way I'd say it was good is if wife brought a copy of SH's obituary from the newspaper and said she made things right.

If your wife gave you an explanation, does SH's ex buy it too?

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, Harry Korsnes said:

If op disides to not destroy (divorce) the marriage and stay together for the children but not r. Then what is it she has done to the marriage and the family?

If this was directed at me, I think I'd say that she significantly damaged it. I think that's fair, as something that's damaged is neither destroyed nor ended.

To spare OP and avoid spamming up this thread even more, I'd prefer to take discussion of the possible logic/scenarios/rationales on this point to a new thread, if that's something you or others feel the need to do.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mark clemson

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

So.. full update. 

 

I had this whole speech prepared but I knew I would screw that up so I just sat her down, pulled out my phone and hit play.

I had to shush her down few times because she started protesting right away. When the recording was over I just told her to think for a minute about her response and left to make myself a coffee to kill the time.

My hands were shaking so much I just gave up on that and I came back maybe 2 minutes later. I expected her to either deny everything or break down into a sobbing mess. She just looked me in the eyes and said "It is not true. We never went to any hotel room ever, He's lying."

So I told her If she can't be honest even after I have a solid proof we are done and I gave her her copy of a divorce paperwork and asked her to leave.

After seeing the filled out and ready papers she started panicking and kept saying again that it's all nonsense. Asked me to play the recording again and to show her that card transaction because it must be fake.

This made me chuckle to be honest, and also pretty angry. I knew it was genuine and I even had a confession ffs! Come on. It's over. Just admit it so we can move on.

We had collosal fight after that. Her reasoning? She told me they never slept together so it's true! She would never do this to me. Ha.

I said some things I am not proud of. I told her EVERYTHING I bottled up. She let let it all out. She knows me, knows my temper is short-lived. When I was done she just told me again she never went to any hotel with him, those two sessions is ALL that ever hapenned between them and she's disgusted by herself and by what she did to me. But to please give her at least a chance and to hear her out.

So I let her speak. 

Well, the statement IS real.

The transaction IS real.

The hotel meeting IS real.

It just wasn't my wife.

 

She went through her callendar and She wasn't even at work that day. She was with ME at her aunt's funeral 4h away. Guess I was too angry to think about checking the date. Can't believe I missed that. 

Not gonna lie - I was so relieved. We both cried. At least my wife finally understood the gravity of how deep she destroyed my ability to trust her. I think until today she wasn't willing to admit how much she screwed up. Now she knows. 

After we put ourselves together we had an long discussion about our marriage and her affair. I think we finaly started to move forward. She willingly told me two things She lied about or didn't tell me before and swears on our children that's it

 

1) One of her friends knew about the affair. She encouraged my wife to "have some fun" and offered to cover for her. She's now out of our lives forever and I made my wife call her husband and tell him everything and block her number. Maybe a dick move but if I were him I would want to know. And I bet she cheated/is cheating on him. I never liked her anyways. 

2) SH invited her multiple times for some fun time at that hotel. She never went.

 

As for SH - no idea what was his plan. I think He went there with someone else and when was caught he tried to  save his own ass by putting this on the only affair his GF knows about. I'm pretty sure there were multiple women. 

And it's almost comical. Did he really think my wife will cover for him? The more I know about him the more I think he's not the sharpest tool.

We later called his ex together. My wife started to apologize but was cut short in a few not that nice words. Can't blame her. It was deserved. SH's ex thinks my wife is lying but I know where she was that whole day and night. With me. So I told her it absolutely wasn't my wife and I think the guy just didn't get what he wanted so he found a new object. I asked her if there is any way I could help but she just hang up. This all sucks, I will call her tomorrow to check on her.

Also, SH's now apparently living with his parents in their 2 bedroom appartment, is jobless and got dumped. But after that stunt He just pulled I can assure you the fun for him just begins.

So this is where we are now. My wife asked me if she could stay tonight. Right now she's asleep in our spare bedroom.

[trident_2020]

Whew that was a close one!

 

[mark clemson]

7 hours ago, princessaurora said:

Maybe if OP's wife, did refuse to have sex with him, he moved on to someone else, but after SH's girlfriend just caught him cheating with his married coworker, he's not going to add an additional woman to his troubles so he says it's OP's wife so he doesn't get in anymore trouble with her than he already is. He already knows what his gf is capable of.

Congrats, PrincessA, on apparently calling this one.

                                   🤔

This thing reads a bit like a mystery novel.

Edited November 24, 2020 by mark clemson

[trident_2020]

Just something I thought of, and I hope I'm wrong.

We can probably assume that this guy who you call "SH" has taken several women to this hotel at varying times.

Therefore there's more than one credit card transaction for that hotel.

What if you were given the wrong one?

 

[Had I Known]

Those must be some wildly chaotic emotions.  Wanting to thank God and maybe even the urge to "make up" with your wife, but then remembering why you are dealing with this s*** in the 1st place.  

Maybe wife didn't cross that line.  If SH's MO is taking women to that hotel and he took wife some other time she would have probably fessed up not knowing herself that it was a different woman on a different day when she heard the recording.

[trident_2020]

6 minutes ago, Had I Known said:

If SH's MO is taking women to that hotel and he took wife some other time she would have probably fessed up not knowing herself that it was a different woman on a different day when she heard the recording.

Most cheaters deny even if literally caught in the act. It's like if they say it didn't happen then it didn't happen even if there's clear evidence to the contrary.

 

[Uruktopi]

18 hours ago, princessaurora said:

....why she did this. What is lacking in your relationship that she needs? What was this other guy giving her that you weren't?

As both can´t coexist without making one of the two "relationships" be a fake and each one is a choice, the only relevant reason (even if there are other secondary ones) is that the OP is him instead of being the OM.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

26 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

Whew that was a close one!

 

I am still processing it. I don't think I will be able to sleep tonight. My wife powered off in 30 seconds, she looks so exhausted. She admited she sleep 4 hours a day max.

18 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Congrats, PrincessA, on apparently calling this one.

                                   🤔

This thing reads a bit like a mystery novel.

I wish. Apparently my life became a soap opera at some point. I don't believe this either. 

 

11 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

Just something I thought of, and I hope I'm wrong.

We can probably assume that this guy who you call "SH" has taken several women to this hotel at varying times.

Therefore there's more than one credit card transaction for that hotel.

What if you were given the wrong one?

 

It's my assumption. Why else would he get a hotel room and "admit" he took my wife there? There is one transaction I know of. I think his ex would let me know if there were more. 

 

10 minutes ago, Had I Known said:

Those must be some wildly chaotic emotions.  Wanting to thank God and maybe even the urge to "make up" with your wife, but then remembering why you are dealing with this s*** in the 1st place.  

Maybe wife didn't cross that line.  If SH's MO is taking women to that hotel and he took wife some other time she would have probably fessed up not knowing herself that it was a different woman on a different day when she heard the recording.

Exactly. I have always been very put together and straight forward guy, so I find it hard to cope with all this crapshow. And yes, I think she told me the truth. 

[WorldsSecondGreatestLover]

My friend... the GODS THEMSELVES must want to save your marriage.  The chances that this hotel charge would have happened on a date that you could specifically document as her being away with you seem so astronomical as to require divine intervention.  He could have done it a couple days off in either direction, and she could be completely innocent, and you'd never believe her.  Are you absolutely sure about all dates?

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

17 minutes ago, WorldsSecondGreatestLover said:

My friend... the GODS THEMSELVES must want to save your marriage.  The chances that this hotel charge would have happened on a date that you could specifically document as her being away with you seem so astronomical as to require divine intervention.  He could have done it a couple days off in either direction, and she could be completely innocent, and you'd never believe her.  Are you absolutely sure about all dates?

Yes, we were gone for 3 days so it's pure luck. I was absolutely ready for divorce, had it all printed out and even signed. Now that I am off the adrenaline high I realize if she didn't have any proof I would divorce her even if she was innocent. How do you prove you didn't do something? It could be a day she had to stay later really working and we would be done. It truly scares me. I have no idea how to deal with that.

 

edit: Now that I think about that there were probably many more dates where my wife would be able to proof where she was.

Edited November 24, 2020 by MrFlibble_is_very_cross

[princessaurora]

So, SH's girlfriend has said he's cheated on her in the past, he was messing with your wife, and apparently at least one other person. Wow, this guy is something else. He seems skilled at playing women.