I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Harry Korsnes]

Seems to me that some here beleave its his fault she cheated. 

[spiritedaway2003]

6 hours ago, DKT3 said:

So what is he to do? Just accept what she's done?

I find it odd that any time a woman has to face consequences for affairs some female posters (or several) always find objections.  

Its my opinion that OP simply doesn't want to be married to his wife because of her affair, but isn't fully ready to let her go.  I dont see it as toxic or taking a pound of flesh.  I see it as him doing whats best for him. She has every right to move on after the divorce.  He isn't forcing her to do anything. 

 

No, he doesn't have to accept what she's done.  It goes both ways. Imagine if he had told her, "You have to cut off the AP and go cold turkey".  If her response was, "No, I'm not ready to let go of AP yet", then the overall advice to the OP would be to give her the boot.  Why?  Because that would be sound advice for OP.  The problem with "I'm going to divorce and then reconcile" is similar - what is the difference in proceeding with the divorce if the goal is to reconcile?   The old relationship is gone.  They still have sort out the dynamics.  It's mixed messages. Are you in or are you out?

If he wants her to face the consequences, fine, leave and divorce her.  She was suffering but she was going to accept that his leaving was a possible outcome.  Is the divorce symbolic or financial?   I haven't followed this thread closely, but I did recall reading that she was willing to sign away her rights to her marital assets for the attempt at reconciliation (that's where's the pound of flesh comes in).  You do not make people sign things when they are under duress (she clearly was, in a last bid to save her marriage).  It doesn't matter if you (or any of us, quite frankly) think that's fair consequence -- that's why there are divorce courts and settlements so one party doesn't get taken advantage of when they're in emotional distress.

I don't think female posters here have a problem if OP chose to leave if that's his hard line.  It's just that once he decides to divorce, then divorce. Do it cleanly and properly. Either you're all in or you're not.  I'd say there might be value if they choose to divorce (cleanly), take some time apart (including dating other people), and then decide to get back together because they want - and choose  - to be with each other.

No one is also forcing him to stay if he really wants to leave.  There is no double standard here.  There is no giving the cheating spouse a pass (except to point out that it hadn't gotten as far as other affairs).  What is now in question is the intent of the OP (to divorce then reconcile) and he knows it better than all of us.

Edited February 12, 2021 by spiritedaway2003
missing words

[basil67]

8 hours ago, DKT3 said:

So what is he to do? Just accept what she's done?

I find it odd that any time a woman has to face consequences for affairs some female posters (or several) always find objections.  

He should work through it with her, likely using a counsellor.  Or if he can't do that, then divorce her.  But these games are toxic.

I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. I have no time for games and manipulation no matter which gender chooses to employ them.

[DKT3]

2 hours ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

No, he doesn't have to accept what she's done.  It goes both ways. Imagine if he had told her, "You have to cut off the AP and go cold turkey".  If her response was, "No, I'm not ready to let go of AP yet", then the overall advice to the OP would be to give her the boot.  Why?  Because that would be sound advice for OP.  The problem with "I'm going to divorce and then reconcile" is similar - what is the difference in proceeding with the divorce if the goal is to reconcile?   The old relationship is gone.  They still have sort out the dynamics.  It's mixed messages. Are you in or are you out?

If he wants her to face the consequences, fine, leave and divorce her.  She was suffering but she was going to accept that his leaving was a possible outcome.  Is the divorce symbolic or financial?   I haven't followed this thread closely, but I did recall reading that she was willing to sign away her rights to her marital assets for the attempt at reconciliation (that's where's the pound of flesh comes in).  You do not make people sign things when they are under duress (she clearly was, in a last bid to save her marriage).  It doesn't matter if you (or any of us, quite frankly) think that's fair consequence -- that's why there are divorce courts and settlements so one party doesn't get taken advantage of when they're in emotional distress.

I don't think female posters here have a problem if OP chose to leave if that's his hard line.  It's just that once he decides to divorce, then divorce. Do it cleanly and properly. Either you're all in or you're not.  I'd say there might be value if they choose to divorce (cleanly), take some time apart (including dating other people), and then decide to get back together because they want - and choose  - to be with each other.

No one is also forcing him to stay if he really wants to leave.  There is no double standard here.  There is no giving the cheating spouse a pass (except to point out that it hadn't gotten as far as other affairs).  What is now in question is the intent of the OP (to divorce then reconcile) and he knows it better than all of us.

I disagree...when he mentioned divorce,  posters did indeed give him problems because his wife is willing to work on it.

His intent is to divorce because he doesn't want to be married.  What relationship they have after is thier relationship. 

And no it wouldn't be the same if said she wouldn't cut off her AP, honestly its a bad analogy for many reasons most obvious they are in a committed monogamous relationship (supposedly) while divorce is ending that commitment.  In a sense she is being demoted from wife to girlfriend.  Just like in the professional world,  she can refuse. 

My personal opinion is OP will divorce and move on, after a short period.  

As far as no gender bias. Ha, if it wouldn't get me in trouble I would cut a paste the posts to prove my point, many of those posters have been active on this thread.

[DKT3]

19 minutes ago, basil67 said:

He should work through it with her, likely using a counsellor.  Or if he can't do that, then divorce her.  But these games are toxic.

I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. I have no time for games and manipulation no matter which gender chooses to employ them.

So they can't do that after the divorce?  I'm just not getting your insistence that its a toxic game. Whats the game? Ending a contract that has been breached? 

[basil67]

@DKT3  The marriage contract has a clause of 'for better or worse'.  That clause says that the marriage is not to be discarded because one breaches it.  A regular (business) contract does not have this, so it's a false analogy.    It's not just this though.  If you look back, I've been flagging game playing throughout the thread.

If the situations were reversed, I'd never do to my husband what the OP is doing to his wife. 

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by basil67

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Trouble is  SHE, once all the furore is over, may decide getting back with a guy who has engineered that and has put her kids though that, is not what she wants.
Resentment kills relationships and this charade of divorcing and getting back together I guess will be a huge breeding ground for resentment going forward.

I think this is likely quite true SOME of the time. FWIW, my read is that:

A) OP isn't doing this to be cruel per se; it's something he needs to do; the psychology is a little beyond me, but I think to the extent there's cruelty in the divorce aspect itself, it's unconscious if it's there at all; she wants him back, he's cooperating, but he needs them to go through this to get there, for whatever reason. Regaining a sense of control is probably part of it, I agree.

B) For the wife, I think many women would perhaps do as you say, BUT I think they'd be a little less "desperate" to keep the guy. I think this wife is not in a place where she's self-aware enough to be thinking this way. Now 10 years down the road, who knows, but at the moment getting him back is what she NEEDS to normalize her psychology/brain function; I think that's all she's focused on ATM. If she was more self-aware, it might be different, but she is clearly experiencing the prospect of their relationship ending as severe trauma. I'd say years down the line it's a toss up. She may look back one day and resent him and the whole situation, she MAY feel like she luckily "won" her one true love who she almost blew it with, etc. Hard to say IMO.

The psychology of breakups is tricky and somewhat unpredictable and this is a form of breakup/near breakup.

Edited February 13, 2021 by mark clemson

[Had I Known]

MrFlibble made a tough decision, but the right decision for the following reasons. 

1.  His ex wife may decide after the divorce that she doesn't want to work on a new relationship.  If so, MrFlibble can thank God he made the right decision to save himself from being cheated on in the future by a wife that didn't really want him.

2.  If she is completely devoted to showing her desire to be his wife again, and puts every effort into building a new and better relationship, then he knows she truly wants him.  If she just doesn't seem to put forth any effort and is hanging around for the kids, support and security, then MrFlibble can decide to pursue someone who wants to be with him.  Unfortunately living in the same house will make this harder to decipher since she will be gaining security, support and complete access to the kids (vs. shared custody) in this arrangement.  If there are other such benefits MrFlibble provides that other men don't those benefits may be leading her to chose him rather than soley on her desire for MrFlibble.  Ideally MrFlibble would know she still chooses him on an even playing field, or as even as possible.  This is necessary to address the fact that his ex wife chose someone else while married to him.

3.  MrFlibble will be able to have a pre-nuptual agreement in place before another marriage.  He needs to make sure the agreement is HEAVILY in favor of him should they divorce again due to her cheating again.  Her enthusiastic acceptance of this is another assurance he deserves from her to show she is completely commited to him.  My understanding is that post-nuptual agreements are often unenforceable.

4.  Divorcing her leaves no doubt in her mind that a 2nd offense will be the end.  So many people on here continue to cheat after being forgiven and don't stop until they are served divorce papers.

5.  This is probably not as good of a reason, but it may be for MrFlibble.  If he and his wife were each other's "only" in some ways....possibly high school sweethearts with no other boyfriend/girlfriend....he may not be able to deal with the imbalance that was created.  Divorcing and separating for a time allows that imbalance to be addressed without the lies and deceit of cheating as his wife did. 

Best of luck MrFlibble.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I feel very sorry for your children, Mr. Flibble. However old they are they've been going through trauma long enough. Either divorce and move on or stay married.

The longer this stretches out as to whether or not there will be a final parting of the ways, it seems to me, the harder it is on the children.

Both you and the Mrs., IMO, have been thinking mainly of yourselves. While it's important to think of oneself, good judgement must prevail and once children are in the mix that adds another dimension to decisions that are made.

If you think this is not affecting your children think again, you're sadly mistaken.

Going through the divorce is going to be traumatic for Mrs. Flibble, the mom of your children. Yes, her adultery was also traumatic for you,  Mr. Flibble. But, enough trauma is enough trauma! The sooner your family is stabilized the better for the children.

Your children may show problems because of all of this now, or it may not surface to the extent you can notice them until much later in life. But, the longer this goes on the worse it is for the kids.

 

 

[S2B]

Your kids are getting this marriage as their example for what a marriage looks like. Expect them to search out a relationship when they get old enough - that mirrors the example you are showing them.

its sad, but that’s what they will choose for their future - it’s whats “normal” for them.

[Mrin]

What a weird end to a relatively ordinary and PG-13 story. 

[basil67]

On 2/13/2021 at 3:46 PM, LivingWaterPlease said:

The longer this stretches out as to whether or not there will be a final parting of the ways, it seems to me, the harder it is on the children.

This ^

If there's one thing that kids need, it's stability and security.  At present, everything is topsy turvy and it sounds like you can't tell them what their near future will look like.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Wow, this blew up.

I am sorry but I don't feel like getting pulled into any kind of drama here, my life provides enough of that and I don't feel like spending more of my time and energy defending myself instead of using it on my relationship with my W and kids.

To make myself clear - we are divorcing. No point of discussing it anymore, we (me and my W) agreed on this and we set things in motion. My W knows and understands why this is happening and she's coming to terms with it. It doesn't mean it's over between us, far from that actually. Take it as a step forward.

We talked a lot about future and possible outcomes, be it D and co-parenting or navigating an uncertain path of find a way back to each other.  I offered her an easy, fair and amicable way out, but she doesn't want that and asked me what are my requirements for future R. So I told her.  She can accept that or we can both start working on moving on. Her choice, and I say a fair choice given the circumstances.

I really don't feel comfortable with being told I am the bad guy here. She cheated on me and I responded in line with my moral compas. She knew all along that any kind of infidelity will ultimately lead to dissolution of our marriage. And she did it anyway. And the burden of finding a way out of this mess fell on me, and what did I get in return? I am being judged, deemed an abuser and I was made a bad guy. SHE screwed up, and now it's up to her to face consequences.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

And don't worry about kids, they are doing OK. They are happpy we are both at home amd thing are slowly coming back to normal. They obviously know what happened (in a age appropriate manner) and understand it will take some time, but we will be OK. We spend every free moment with them. I cut down my work even, we both work from home and are just enjoying our time in our little bubble

[Harry Korsnes]

3 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Wow, this blew up.

I am sorry but I don't feel like getting pulled into any kind of drama here, my life provides enough of that and I don't feel like spending more of my time and energy defending myself instead of using it on my relationship with my W and kids.

To make myself clear - we are divorcing. No point of discussing it anymore, we (me and my W) agreed on this and we set things in motion. My W knows and understands why this is happening and she's coming to terms with it. It doesn't mean it's over between us, far from that actually. Take it as a step forward.

We talked a lot about future and possible outcomes, be it D and co-parenting or navigating an uncertain path of find a way back to each other.  I offered her an easy, fair and amicable way out, but she doesn't want that and asked me what are my requirements for future R. So I told her.  She can accept that or we can both start working on moving on. Her choice, and I say a fair choice given the circumstances.

I really don't feel comfortable with being told I am the bad guy here. She cheated on me and I responded in line with my moral compas. She knew all along that any kind of infidelity will ultimately lead to dissolution of our marriage. And she did it anyway. And the burden of finding a way out of this mess fell on me, and what did I get in return? I am being judged, deemed an abuser and I was made a bad guy. SHE screwed up, and now it's up to her to face consequences.

Good for you for standing up for your self👍

[Pottering About]

MrFlibble, quite agree with your line above. There have always been a number of regular and respected posters on here who have supported you throughout. 
 

Good luck with everything and hope to get a positive update in the more distant future.

[RebeccaR]

You aren’t in the wrong. I personally think you should have imposed the fair and amicable solution. You’re giving her an option on a future relationship, even though it seems like your instinct is to end things. If you both agree years from now to reunite, that would be separate from anything that went on the first time. 
 

Even if she does everything you request, you may still not want to be with her, but she will be able to argue that she followed the rules. None of what happens between you in the future should be up to her.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

On 2/15/2021 at 6:51 PM, RebeccaR said:

You aren’t in the wrong. I personally think you should have imposed the fair and amicable solution. You’re giving her an option on a future relationship, even though it seems like your instinct is to end things. If you both agree years from now to reunite, that would be separate from anything that went on the first time. 
 

Even if she does everything you request, you may still not want to be with her, but she will be able to argue that she followed the rules. None of what happens between you in the future should be up to her.

Not sure what do you mean by that. Clean and fair divorce without R? If we had no kids I might just do that, who knows. Our lives are merged into one solid form and even though things changed a lot, and it will never be the same, I still love her.

And I am not forcing her or twisting her arm into this. She can leave anytime she wants

[merrmeade]

On 2/15/2021 at 3:18 AM, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

And don't worry about kids, they are doing OK. They are happpy we are both at home amd thing are slowly coming back to normal. They obviously know what happened (in a age appropriate manner) and understand it will take some time, but we will be OK. We spend every free moment with them. I cut down my work even, we both work from home and are just enjoying our time in our little bubble

Hey, you do NOT need to explain yourself.m, Flibble. And it IS what you said: drama that has little to do with your needs or reality now.. So, so very weird. I mean, you come back on here clearly with everything put back together so much better than it ever was, a clear sign you’ve had some great individual counseling,. You simply make an announcement. You give some of the reasons and that should be enough. You didn’t ask for advice, assessment, or judgment this time and showed the opposite of ambivalence.

It really doesn’t matter what anyone on here thinks now. After all, we actually know very little about what’s happened to you since you were posting daily.. It may have been your thread at one time, but just let them have at it and don’t react. It is simply not up to anyone here any more to opine on your situation. This time you weren’t even asking for their opinion. You were simply doing the courtesy of keeping us informed out of gratitude for the help you got when things were not so clear.

So just don’t worry about it. It really doesn’t matter. It may have been your thread initially, but you’re at a different place. Just let them have it, ignore and certainly don’t worry about it. You’re doing just fine. You don’t need our approval, so just ignore the disapproval.

Anyway, that said, let me go out on the positive. You really are doing well. The voice you project now conveys 180 degrees a  different persona . You have so thoroughly worked this out with the people that matter or who have your best interest foremost or who you pay to give you the best advice available. You’re working through emotions and practical affairs for your life and the people in it with the expert advice that everyone on here told you to get—a psychologist, a lawyer and ? You’re on top of it. You’ve passed them by.

Edited February 24, 2021 by merrmeade

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Thank you. I do plan on comming back here from time to time to see how things are around here. And maybe to satiate your curiosity of how I am doing.

Not sure about all that 180 different persona, but I feel a lot more centered and firm on my legs. The only thing I honestly didn't expect was the fact that all those bad thoughts and feelings really come in wawes. They come and go, ofter very swiftly. I expected more linear experience, but what the hell.

[Watercolors]

4 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Thank you. I do plan on comming back here from time to time to see how things are around here. And maybe to satiate your curiosity of how I am doing.

Not sure about all that 180 different persona, but I feel a lot more centered and firm on my legs. The only thing I honestly didn't expect was the fact that all those bad thoughts and feelings really come in wawes. They come and go, ofter very swiftly. I expected more linear experience, but what the hell.

Mr. Flibble good luck with everything. Your situation reminds me of the Yes song, "Changes." These stands out to me for your situation: "root yourself to the ground..." and "The love we had has fallen/the love we used to share/We've given up pretending/As if you didn't care..." 

I never viewed you as the bad guy either. Just for the record. 

[Just a Guy]

Hi Mr. Fibble, I guess I am late in reading through and reacting to your situation. One of the reasons was that I was blocked from signing in and responding to the various threads being posted here due to some new security software that this website had deployed. I have been a member here since 2012 and for the last year or so I had been busy with various other matters and did not find the time or leisure to browse this website. When I did try to sign in, I found I was blocked from doing so. When I contacted the Mods, they kindly let me back in, so here I am.

I have got the gist of your situation by dipping into your thread at various points. I am really very sorry to see what has happened to you and your family during the last few months. Infidelity sucks and I can imagine the trauma that you have had to suffer. My hat's off to you for having handled a difficult and painful personal problem with maturity, patience and compassion for your wife. No woman could have asked for a better husband and I am sure once the dust settles on this painful event, your wife will realise just how fortunate she has been in having you as her husband.

I have to say that you have taken a very wise and thoughtful decision in putting in process a divorce from your wife,  with the stipulation that you and your wife(ex?) will reconcile and start afresh with a new marriage. To me this is like turning over a new page in your life, leaving the old page with all the errors, erasures and dirty rubber marks all over it, behind and starting on a clean new sheet. I know that infidelity leaves an indelible mark on your lives including those of your children. It will be something both you and your wife will carry to the grave. However, a fresh , clean start is like changing the tires on your car, having it overhauled and changing the engine oil so that it runs smoothly and silently, not giving you any sort of trouble for ever do long. All the nay sayers seem to have got it wrong. In fact some posters seem disappointed that your relationship did not come crashing down and that you are still living, breathing and capable of being a compassionate human being! Do not worry about the negative comments. Do what you know is right. If you can, read DKT3's story. He too, divorced and remarried his wife after her infidelity. That is a success story which should inspire you.

In closing, I would like to wish you and your wife the very best going forward and for you to trust your own judgement. Warm regards.

[Caauug]

On 2/13/2021 at 5:41 AM, basil67 said:

He should work through it with her, likely using a counsellor.  Or if he can't do that, then divorce her.  But these games are toxic.

I would say the same thing if the genders were reversed. I have no time for games and manipulation no matter which gender chooses to employ them.

Yes I would call it a form of "Dread".

He really has no other options IMO, if he wants to reconcile. Rug-sweep the whole thing shows his weakness and his W will value him less, this just leads to the next A. Just D her and move on he looses his family, he wants to reconcile. Play "dread" for a while, show his W what she will be loosing, brings her back around to admire him, he gets to reset the relationship and start over. Sounds like he is at this stage now. 4 months is not long term considering what he is also dealing with...  I don't think he knows he is playing it.... 

Yes, "Dread" can be toxic when played long term, it's emotionally abusive. Short term (applied correctly) it can play as a wake up call, add value to a relationship, and even bring people closer together. His wife's actions have proven that. I hope he will be ending it soon....

Games are played all the time in relationships, I think women play more than men. Crap tests are the most common. Girls play projection at the start of relationships: Girl gets new BF and is now into drag racing, motocross racing and loves beach fishing.... She hates the smell of burning rubber, never rode a motor cycle, doesn't own a fishing rod and can't tie a knot except shoe laces.... Push-Pull is another one. Some even class a woman's make-up and/or perfume a game of deception... Flirting is a game.... Women have been known to play "Dread", it's just not a man's game. 

We all play games of some sort.... Just don't take them too far.

[elaine567]

37 minutes ago, Caauug said:

He really has no other options IMO, if he wants to reconcile. Rug-sweep the whole thing shows his weakness and his W will value him less, this just leads to the next A. Just D her and move on he looses his family, he wants to reconcile. Play "dread" for a while, show his W what she will be loosing, brings her back around to admire him, he gets to reset the relationship and start over.

You and he forgets the very female trait of resentment.
Women rarely forget and whilst in a desperate state she will play the game, it doesn't mean life will be golden thereafter.
In her mind she had a reason to cheat, she was the put upon SAHM, who out in the workplace and "free", took an opportunity and ran with it.
How far she would have actually run if left to her own devices is open to debate... This guy may not have come up to scratch, but the next one might have.
All this male power stuff may in fact turn her off even further when she gets her head back together. 
So far from respecting and admiring Mr Flibble, she may grow to hate him for putting her and her kids through all this trauma...

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Caauug said:

Yes I would call it a form of "Dread".

He really has no other options IMO, if he wants to reconcile. Rug-sweep the whole thing shows his weakness and his W will value him less, this just leads to the next A. Just D her and move on he looses his family, he wants to reconcile. Play "dread" for a while, show his W what she will be loosing, brings her back around to admire him, he gets to reset the relationship and start over. Sounds like he is at this stage now. 4 months is not long term considering what he is also dealing with...  I don't think he knows he is playing it.... 

 

I'm sorry, you've lost me.  I see nothing admirable in power plays.