I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Pottering About]

Wow, big news. 

Her response to him professing love was avoidance. I would suggest she was uncomfortable with it and did not feel the same. If she was in the affair fog and did love him, then I am sure she would have said so. I would also question his motives for saying he loved her and whether it was genuine.

Can we revisit your lines in the sand - no sex, no I Love You on her part anyway, no plans for a future life. How are feeling about these now? You also have the texts which seem to confirm everything your wife told you.

You say that you thought you made progress yesterday and now this happened. From an outsiders point of view, you have more certainty about your lines in the sand and the texts. Some of the texts do hurt but I hope you come to see today’s revelations as the point at which you can now move forward. As a bonus, SH got his come uppance and you did not have any part in it (result).  You never did get to rock bottom of her having sex.

The BAD NEWS - SH has nothing to lose and may try to pick up again with your wife, at least as a short term backstop. What are you going to do about that? 
 

Glad you are taking your time about any divorce and I wish you all he very best. Please don’t let others’ dark thoughts get in your head.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Pottering About
Update

[colingrant]

Excellent news all around. The bad news is not as bad as what could have been. You are informed and thus far have reason to believe you know it all. I'd meet with the girlfriend as she is where you were a couple weeks back and need help confirming stuff. Plus, you may find out something else that wasn't available in text communications. Well wishes 

[WilyWill]

1 hour ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Also SH' GF would like to meet in person, not sure if it's a good idea. 

My wife doesn't know I have them. I want to process this before we talk again. Yesterday I thought we made a progress. And now this. At least I know bigger portion of a truth now. 

Definitely a good idea to keep in contact with the GF. This is good therapy for the two of you to finally regain a sense of control. Meeting in person is all the better, but be wary of getting roped into a revenge affair. Do not tell your wife about any contact with her and insist that GF does not tell her boyfriend. 

Do not reveal to your wife that you have the text messages, of course. Rather, ask her specific questions related to their content to determine if she is ready to be completely honest. 

[gamon]

1 hour ago, TobyBoy said:

Well here’s your chance to get some more truth from your wife. Tell her,  “GF found out the truth and SH confessed everything and even gave up all the texts....so start talking or I’m gone”.

 

I'm really liking this strategy. Obviously she doesn't get a second chance to come clean at a later date which would give her time to confer with the affair partner. She gives her version of the complete truth, now or never and it better match up to what you know or you're gone.

 

 

[aliveagain]

It has been a very long time since I have posted, here are my two cents. After exposure, if a couple want to save their marriage after infidelity, the onus of proof is always on the wayward spouse. It is up to her to prove to your satisfaction that intercourse did not happen and it is up to her to make you feel safe enough to stay married to her. Making out in a car can involve more then just kissing, touching over and under clothing is very common, some people don't consider oral sex. You should both be tested for STD's for several reasons. The first reason is that saliva is a bodily fluid and you can get an STD from the exchange of bodily fluids. Another reason is to drive home the seriousness of her actions, she put you both at risk not just herself. The shame and embarrassment of being tested won't easily be forgotten if a similar opportunity were to arise in the future. Knowing your rights is important and when talking to a lawyer make sure you inquire about a post nuptial agreement. People that don't honor boundaries usually honor a financial consequence. When you agree to reconciliation, a post nuptial agreement goes a long way to make you feel safe. Many will argue that they don't stand up in all Courts but you still have to spend money to find that out and that in itself is a deterrent. Make sure she gets independent counselling, don't waste money on marriage counselling until she gets independent counselling to find out why she gave herself the approval to cheat on you.

[gamon]

1 hour ago, aliveagain said:

. It is up to her to prove to your satisfaction that intercourse did not happen

It's impossible to prove a negative. If she had sex with the guy, it "might" come out from the evidence, or from guilt, or panic, or in a stress induced so-called "parking lot confession" . The truth may never come out but at least there's the possibility.

If there never was sex, there's nothing to admit, there's no truth to disclose and unfortunately there's never a way for the betrayed spouse to know if it ever did happen.

In other words the only way to possibly know for sure your cheating spouse had sex with the other person is if it actually happened.

It's a paradox.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by gamon

[BMI03]

3 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Thanky you for your kind word. It means a lot. Yes, I know my wife loves me - that's why this hurts like bi.ch. The rest was hard to read, but now I think I know the truth. See my update.

Glad you took it that way. I thought it may come across harsh, asking you to sit for 10 minutes to feel what 10 minutes feels like, but for me at least a critical element to getting to forgiveness is knowing exactly what it is you are forgiving. May suck more up front, but at least you have opportunity to feel the pain, and then start moving on. It's lightyears easier than feeling the pain for the partial truth, forgiving, learning more, hurting all over, trying to move on again, etc. etc. That slow erosion of the last remaining grains of trust will break you harder and for longer than the initial event itself.

Saw your update, and as sore is some of it is, I think overall that's full of some things you will come to find positive when compared with the very possible alternatives it could have been. I think keeping quiet on that connection point until you feel your wife has gained your trust that she is being fully honest is a right idea. Like you said, you had asked about him confessing love and were told 'no', so there is still work she needs to do to recognize the severity of her actions NOW. The actions she takes NOW could be more damaging than the actions she took with SH if she's not super careful and transparent.

Good luck to you. Wish you well.

[Timshel]

I'm a woman and I would divorce her.  Proceed at your own peril. 

Also, no need for all the gossip and meetings with peripheral folk.  Your wife was making out with, had his tongue and fingers all over with her wanting more...dude and that's what you 'think'  you know about.

Is 4Paws your wife?

When a woman is ready to let another guy put his d*ck in her, your marriage is over.  It may become polyamorous but monogamy and passion for you have left the building.

File for divorce and be the best co parents you can be; you don't know it yet but both of you and your kids will be a happier, healthier family.

[gamon]

14 minutes ago, Timshel said:

when a woman is ready to let another guy put his d*ck in her, your marriage is over.  I

Did you read the thread? Sounds like other man was ready but wife wasn't ready and pulled the plug on his advances. At least that's how much is known.

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

3 hours ago, Pottering About said:

Wow, big news. 

Her response to him professing love was avoidance. I would suggest she was uncomfortable with it and did not feel the same. If she was in the affair fog and did love him, then I am sure she would have said so. I would also question his motives for saying he loved her and whether it was genuine.

Can we revisit your lines in the sand - no sex, no I Love You on her part anyway, no plans for a future life. How are feeling about these now? You also have the texts which seem to confirm everything your wife told you.

You say that you thought you made progress yesterday and now this happened. From an outsiders point of view, you have more certainty about your lines in the sand and the texts. Some of the texts do hurt but I hope you come to see today’s revelations as the point at which you can now move forward. As a bonus, SH got his come uppance and you did not have any part in it (result).  You never did get to rock bottom of her having sex.

The BAD NEWS - SH has nothing to lose and may try to pick up again with your wife, at least as a short term backstop. What are you going to do about that? 
 

Glad you are taking your time about any divorce and I wish you all he very best. Please don’t let others’ dark thoughts get in your head.

 

 

 

Yeah, I think he was just pushing it too much. My lines are clear from the beginning - if they had sex or exchanged ILYs I am done. I don't think neither happened. I don't think they are going to try to continue their little affair. Looks like they are absolutely ready to throw the other under a bus. Oh, young love. And I am beeing sarcastic again. Great

 

3 hours ago, colingrant said:

Excellent news all around. The bad news is not as bad as what could have been. You are informed and thus far have reason to believe you know it all. I'd meet with the girlfriend as she is where you were a couple weeks back and need help confirming stuff. Plus, you may find out something else that wasn't available in text communications. Well wishes 

We already made plans to meet at park on Wednesday. 
 

2 hours ago, WilyWill said:

Definitely a good idea to keep in contact with the GF. This is good therapy for the two of you to finally regain a sense of control. Meeting in person is all the better, but be wary of getting roped into a revenge affair. Do not tell your wife about any contact with her and insist that GF does not tell her boyfriend. 

Do not reveal to your wife that you have the text messages, of course. Rather, ask her specific questions related to their content to determine if she is ready to be completely honest. 

There will be no revenge affair, nit with her amd not with anyone else. My anger is mostly gone anyway. Now I am more disappointed than anything.

Why you think I shouln't tell my wife. She knows we spoke. She gave her my number. As for the messages - as I said if they are genuine and not some cleanedmup version - they are in line with what my wife told me except that "I think I am in love with you" part my wife denied. Still not sure how to go about that. 
 

1 hour ago, gamon said:

It's impossible to prove a negative. If she had sex with the guy, it "might" come out from the evidence, or from guilt, or panic, or in a stress induced so-called "parking lot confession" . The truth may never come out but at least there's the possibility.

If there never was sex, there's nothing to admit, there's no truth to disclose and unfortunately there's never a way for the betrayed spouse to know if it ever did happen.

In other words the only way to possibly know for sure your cheating spouse had sex with the other person is if it actually happened.

It's a paradox.

 

Again, they didn't have sex. I thought that even before, but after reading their text I am now 100% positive. And ny "sex" I mean anything more than making out. 

[gamon]

10 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

 As for the messages - as I said if they are genuine and not some cleanedmup version - they are in line with what my wife told me

...they didn't have sex. I thought that even before, but after reading their text I am now 100% positive. 

I get that you've been traumatized and not thinking clearly. We're here to help. Look at the two lines you posted above, do you see where you cannot be sure if they didn't have sex, based entirely on what you posted above? You are sure they didn't have sex based completely on texts you cannot even validate.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by gamon

[Uruktopi]

15 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Seems to me many betrayed men are focused primarily on whether or not a woman had sex.
No sex = no divorce, sex = divorce, when that is probably the least of his problems.
Some affairs are about power, control and resentment, that to me is a more serious problem than whether or not his wife actually had sex with the guy at work..

I frequently and perhaps allways agree with you.

Not this time. For more than one single reason thay may be long to say, besides it may become a TJ.

But....are you sure that is wise to say what SHOULD be important for men instead of what it is? 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Uruktopi

[WorldsSecondGreatestLover]

Quote

are in line with what my wife told me except that "I think I am in love with you" part my wife denied. Still not sure how to go about that. 

Are you sure she didn't get confused and think you were asking her if she EXCHANGED I love you's or she thought you were asking if SHE said I love you?

BTW, OP... the other guy kissing her, her saying never again, and then him saying "we'll see about that..."  If I were you I would burn this son of a b**** down to the ground.  He's a supervisor?  Get your wife to file sexual harassment claims.

Edited November 16, 2020 by WorldsSecondGreatestLover

[Pottering About]

As I understand it SH’s girlfriend broke into his phone once she found his password and got hold of the text messages. She then sent you screenshots which you presumably have read. 
 

I am sure the two of you would have spotted gaps in the texts if some had been deleted. It seems to me the likelihood of SH doctoring only some of the texts is very small as, if there was a problem he would have deleted everything. In addition to this, it was the gf who sent the screenshots and what motivation would she have to doctor them? 
 

Never say never, but come on here people!

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

1 hour ago, gamon said:

I get that you've been traumatized and not thinking clearly. We're here to help. Look at the two lines you posted above, do you see where you cannot be sure if they didn't have sex, based entirely on what you posted above? You are sure they didn't have sex based completely on texts you cannot even validate.

 

 

 

 

I think I am thinking pretty clearly given the circumstances. But you are right, I might never know. But with the texts and our long talks I think I have a pretty decent picture. As I said before, it all comes down to me believing her or not. I know it sound stupid and naive and who knows what else but that just how it is.

 

24 minutes ago, WorldsSecondGreatestLover said:

Are you sure she didn't get confused and think you were asking her if she EXCHANGED I love you's or she thought you were asking if SHE said I love you?

BTW, OP... the other guy kissing her, her saying never again, and then him saying "we'll see about that..."  If I were you I would burn this son of a b**** down to the ground.  He's a supervisor?  Get your wife to file sexual harassment claims.

I should probably check the recording. Not sure about wording. This could be put on wording/phrasing - after all we don't speak english. It's possible some meaning might get lost in translation.

I am still contemplaging about what to do with SH. I am absolutely sure we will never meet in person, because I would end up in jail. He's peers, does the same job as my wife. We will see what will come up from their HR.

There is no point for sexual harrasment complain. Nothing was done against her will

 

But as I write this I realized that my W's job requirments are not only professional but also ethical. She needed a few written recommendations regarding her character traits back when she started. I guess she really IS screwed. 

[gamon]

2 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

But as I write this I realized that my W's job requirments are not only professional but also ethical. She needed a few written recommendations regarding her character traits back when she started. I guess she really IS screwed. 

If you stay together you'll be the breadwinner since she can't get a job (or at least one at her current level of pay) due to the workplace exposure.

 

[mark clemson]

If it's been proven "to your satisfaction" that they didn't screw, that's at least a positive and is all you can really get. Hopefully this is accurate. As noted above, it's impossible to prove a negative.

If things play out as seems likely per posts above, the (STBx I imagine) GF only did you a favor in the short term. In the longer term, if your wife's career is derailed due to the HR call, it is money taken away from your children (and possibly from you if you stay together, even e.g. living together but divorced).

Sure it helped "end the affair" but it appears that was fully over anyhow + your wife had agreed to leave. Hopefully she'll be able to get character references from others or address this bank review of "her character" in other ways. Otherwise, she'll presumably have to restart her career in a new field.

Maybe things will be fine, but if not - well, it's not a surprise (to me at least) that they aren't. Don't kid yourself - her vindictiveness and/or myopic "morality," that puts adult's emotional needs over the physical needs of children, may well end up substantially harming your children's well being.

Edited November 17, 2020 by mark clemson

[usa1ah]

6 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I might disappear for few days after this, sorry. But I bet you can understand writing on here's not my top priority right now. 

 

But I am still very grateful for every response here. You prople help me to stay afloat.

 

So.. update. 

 

 Today has been a hell of a day.

 

Firstly, cat's out of a bag so to speak. My wife got call from an HR this morning. Somebody apparently reported them both. She called me right away why I did that, told her I didn't.

 

She called me again in tears an hour later to tell me SH's GF called HER and yelled at her for good 20 minutes. Then she wanted to speak to me.

 

So I called her in between meetings. 

 

She apparently found the NC message my wife sent over the weekend and went into investigation. We spoke about the situation we are in, I gave her my part of a story and we put together what we know. 

 

She's obviously the one who reported them to HR. Said she had some suspicion about the two, but since SH never let her into his phone there was no proof. She somehow found out the password and voilà!

 

On a positive note - looks like SH didn't bother deleting any messages. She has them all and sent me everything after our conversation. She also kicked SH out since He lives in HER appartment. Won't lie, great sense of justice. 

 

 

 

So I got the screenshots. Lots of them. 

 

Sort of good news/bad news.

 

Good news - I am now 100% positive they didn't have sex. It was never explicitly discussed, but He texted her apologizing for pushing her into it and she told him this was too much and they should stop. Other messages were hard to read, but they are in line with what she told me. Also if those messages are not some sort od cleaned up version of events they didn't text all that much, definitely less then I thought after my W told me she deleted some messages and even whole conversations.

 

No sexting. Just some inuendos and flirting from both sides. I was mentioned only few times and never in a bad way, more like off-hand comment. Guess there was no place for me or kids in their Neverland. 

 

Bad news - He told my wife multiple times He's in love with her. She either didn't adress it at all or downplayed it. This made me angry because I asked her directly before and she denied this. 

 

Also SH' GF would like to meet in person, not sure if it's a good idea. 

 

My wife doesn't know I have them. I want to process this before we talk again. Yesterday I thought we made a progress. And now this. At least I know bigger portion of a truth now. 

 

I also had a skype appointment with a lawyer today. Looked like a right guy, just a few years older than me. I told him my story and then let him speak. Looks like if we agree on kids and a house we can be done in 3 months. I was actually surprised, I thought I took longer than that. There is also no separation period.

 

That's probably too fast for me. I don't want to rush it, also 3 month is way too soon to see if there is any hope for us. So I won't file this year.

 

Wife has been trying to reach me since morning and I am playing it cool, just told her I need some time now.

 

We have a bank holiday tommorow, so we are both free. Not sure if it's good or bad. 

So, she never returned the ILU from SH. That is good, sad that she couldn’t say that he had said it. 

[DKT3]

I spoke in the beginning of this thread about falling for illogical "truths" because its a combination of what you want to hear and what makes you most comfortable,  also I spoke about taking hard stances not really understanding how you will feel the next day or week. You've made both mistakes,  hopefully it doesn't come back to get you.

Those texts mean nothing since it wasn't likely the day you found out,  much could have happened between those  texts and when you found out. But, it makes you feel better.  

You are making the topical mistakes that almost all BHs make. Foolishly wanting to believe a minimized narrative that your WW is more then happy to allow you to believe.  The innocent victims who was pressured into doing things she didn't really want to do, the quiet damsel who ignored all the sweet talk.....so ask yourself just what the hell was your innocent damsel doing?

Lots of pain and disappointment lay right beyond the naive blindness. 

[MickeyBill]

Since you seem to have the emails, IMO there would have been some evidence of references to sex. Eggplant and Peach Emojis or "that was amazing" even just "Wow" texts. To be honest I sent a "Wow" after sex to a GF and got a "you said it!" in return. While your W may have cleaned up her side of the texts he may not have cleaned it up his- he'd keep them as a trophy.

And the idea of  them getting back together is absurd. FWIW I think your W will be on her best behaviour. For a long time.

 

[princessaurora]

2 hours ago, usa1ah said:

So, she never returned the ILU from SH. That is good, sad that she couldn’t say that he had said it. 

She may have been too scared that would have made him file for divorce and since she didn't reciprocate the ILY,  and had already ended things, she didn't want to make it any worse for herself.. Who knows if he even meant it? He might have just been trying to break her down so she'd give him sex. 

[endlessabyss]

4 hours ago, DKT3 said:

I spoke in the beginning of this thread about falling for illogical "truths" because its a combination of what you want to hear and what makes you most comfortable,  also I spoke about taking hard stances not really understanding how you will feel the next day or week. You've made both mistakes,  hopefully it doesn't come back to get you.

Those texts mean nothing since it wasn't likely the day you found out,  much could have happened between those  texts and when you found out. But, it makes you feel better.  

You are making the topical mistakes that almost all BHs make. Foolishly wanting to believe a minimized narrative that your WW is more then happy to allow you to believe.  The innocent victims who was pressured into doing things she didn't really want to do, the quiet damsel who ignored all the sweet talk.....so ask yourself just what the hell was your innocent damsel doing?

Lots of pain and disappointment lay right beyond the naive blindness. 

Beautiful post.

[S2B]

So what will HR do to them now? Is she still planning to stay at that job until January?

[Buffer]

Well good and bad. Good that there was no sex, but bad that she is still lying about the ILU from him to her. Again as stated by others she is still trying to control the situation. Minimise the fall out. 
send her a copy of the text now and talk about it tomorrow. If she hasn’t yet she needs to be tested for STIs.
As always exercise, eat healthy and drink water. Please put the children at #1. 
One day at a time. 
Respect ✊ 

Buffer

Edited November 17, 2020 by Buffer
Spelling

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

19 hours ago, gamon said:

If you stay together you'll be the breadwinner since she can't get a job (or at least one at her current level of pay) due to the workplace exposure.

 

I am kind of OK with that. Money's not my concern right now, I make enough to keep us afloat. We can stop investing into our house and be OK. But I will pressure her to find a new job as soon as possible.

18 hours ago, mark clemson said:

If it's been proven "to your satisfaction" that they didn't screw, that's at least a positive and is all you can really get. Hopefully this is accurate. As noted above, it's impossible to prove a negative.

If things play out as seems likely per posts above, the (STBx I imagine) GF only did you a favor in the short term. In the longer term, if your wife's career is derailed due to the HR call, it is money taken away from your children (and possibly from you if you stay together, even e.g. living together but divorced).

Sure it helped "end the affair" but it appears that was fully over anyhow + your wife had agreed to leave. Hopefully she'll be able to get character references from others or address this bank review of "her character" in other ways. Otherwise, she'll presumably have to restart her career in a new field.

Maybe things will be fine, but if not - well, it's not a surprise (to me at least) that they aren't. Don't kid yourself - her vindictiveness and/or myopic "morality," that puts adult's emotional needs over the physical needs of children, may well end up substantially harming your children's well being.

Yes, I asked her today if she found a way how to assure me they didn't sleep together. Surprise, surprise She didn't. I think her career is basicaly done, at least for now. Looks like she still fails to comprehend. 

 

18 hours ago, usa1ah said:

So, she never returned the ILU from SH. That is good, sad that she couldn’t say that he had said it. 

Yes, if there is something that will finish our marriage for good it will be her lies. Not kissing some loser.

16 hours ago, DKT3 said:

I spoke in the beginning of this thread about falling for illogical "truths" because its a combination of what you want to hear and what makes you most comfortable,  also I spoke about taking hard stances not really understanding how you will feel the next day or week. You've made both mistakes,  hopefully it doesn't come back to get you.

Those texts mean nothing since it wasn't likely the day you found out,  much could have happened between those  texts and when you found out. But, it makes you feel better.  

You are making the topical mistakes that almost all BHs make. Foolishly wanting to believe a minimized narrative that your WW is more then happy to allow you to believe.  The innocent victims who was pressured into doing things she didn't really want to do, the quiet damsel who ignored all the sweet talk.....so ask yourself just what the hell was your innocent damsel doing?

Lots of pain and disappointment lay right beyond the naive blindness. 

thank you, I needed to hear that. You are right, I tend to bend the truth a little to make it more digestible. That's very dangerous and I will try to correct myself.  But I still think I know the basics of her affair pretty well now. And my wife is nit some kinde of damsel in distress, too naive and stupid to see through this. I think I made myself clear here that I put a stop to this narative early on. 

 

16 hours ago, MickeyBill said:

Since you seem to have the emails, IMO there would have been some evidence of references to sex. Eggplant and Peach Emojis or "that was amazing" even just "Wow" texts. To be honest I sent a "Wow" after sex to a GF and got a "you said it!" in return. While your W may have cleaned up her side of the texts he may not have cleaned it up his- he'd keep them as a trophy.

And the idea of  them getting back together is absurd. FWIW I think your W will be on her best behaviour. For a long time.

 

I have not seen anything of this sort. Her behaviour in future is up to her. I won't play a marriage policeman. She's either in or she's out. Simple as that. 

 

16 hours ago, princessaurora said:

She may have been too scared that would have made him file for divorce and since she didn't reciprocate the ILY,  and had already ended things, she didn't want to make it any worse for herself.. Who knows if he even meant it? He might have just been trying to break her down so she'd give him sex. 

That's exactly what I think about that ILY. I don't think he was/is in love with her. He was just trying to get in her pants. 
 

15 hours ago, S2B said:

So what will HR do to them now? Is she still planning to stay at that job until January?

No idea, she might be fired. Probably will be. Waiting for HR meeting. She's staying till January for now. No other option.