I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Harry Korsnes]

25 minutes ago, S2B said:

Make a decision. You keep going back and forth. Being tough and being too soft.

you’re doing nothing but sending her mixed signals.

all this meeting up with the kids... you can be their Dad - just fine. She can be the Mom... there’s no reason to keep muddying things up while you decide.

keep your distance until the decision is made. You need the distance for clarity! She keeps coming around most days to confuse you even more.

Totaly agree.

Some doors need to be closed. 

[Buffer]

Well how are you feeling with the last discussion?

As things have been verified by SH GF, that puts some clarity in the fog. However; there are the constant lies by stealth to minimise the damage. 
Is she remorseful? I feel so. But like you said she is wanting to rug sweep this and go back to the days when you were none the wiser. However; that won’t address the how and why she can lie and risk your children and marriage. Yes there is more and she has to understand that the lying can’t continue if there is any chance to co parent in a harmonious way or R at a later date. 
One day at a time. 
Buffer
Can I ask what your MIL wanted to speak about?

 

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, WorldsSecondGreatestLover said:

In general, men can recover okay if there's no PA, and women can recover okay if there's no EA

Surely it depends  on the people involved and the circumstances and is not so black and white...
Plenty men have "recovered" from their wives being in full blown PAs and many women have divorced over a ONS.
There are so many variables.
Women tend to put up with more usually as they stay due to kids, finances and security, rather than it being anything to do with "recovering"...
Men also stay due to kids, finances and security too.  
"Recovering okay" may not be the reality though, if we were to delve deeper.. 
Plenty go through the motions and make the best of it.
Of course  staying in a marriage no matter how flawed may be better than the alternative...
Broke, staying in an apartment and seeing your kids 50% of the time, or only at weekends and fighting with the ex, or having your kids being brought up by other man/woman, is not what some really want.

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

 I have a divorce petition ready. 

Has your attorney outlined what the costs will be with regard to division of assets? Why would you talk to a realtor before you talk to your attorney?

What did the attorney advise you with regard to child custody/visitation and child support?

What did your attorney suggest is the best course of action?

Since this is a potential legal matter make sure you get professional advice.

 

 

[Pottering About]

I don’t think you are pathetic, just the opposite to be honest. I think there are a lot of people here who do hope everything works out fine.
 

Don’t feel guilty or sad about your feelings, I would suggest that these are normal at this stage of your journey.  In many ways, dealing with infidelity is  much like dealing with grief and there are plenty of models on Google which show timelines for the various stages and how you can move between them. It also helps you give yourself permission to have these feelings.

Don’t know how you get over the whole ILYs issue as this just goes round in circles. Honestly, I don’t think she said it and him saying it was just to achieve his personal agenda. You have the text messages and there is nothing there. 

Hope you are still planning to take your time about any decision. How many posts have we seen on here where people have rushed and regretted decisions?

Where are you now with your lines in the sand? Have you hit rock bottom yet?
 

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

20 hours ago, WorldsSecondGreatestLover said:

Normally, I'm a "they cheated, so walk away" guy.  But when a woman doesn't sleep with an affair partner, it's because she wasn't going to sleep with an affair partner.  Everything you've said about Mr. Wonderful indicates that he's an extremely dominant personality.  He would have reeled her in if she was going to reel in, in two months.

However: I think it's possible you don't know the full details yet.  Time and time again on every single site, you see the EA stories where the woman claims it's an EA but it turns out it was actually a PA.  In general, men can recover okay if there's no PA, and women can recover okay if there's no EA.

If you can FOR SURE determine that this guy didn't get into your wife's pants, since you have kids, I'd throw her into therapy, let her work on herself, and give her a chance to earn trust back.  ONLY if there was nothing beyond kissing though.

You are probably right, but I am not absolutely sure she would not "break" given more time and me not snooping and complaining. I also thought he was a dominant person, but after meeting his exGF I am not so sure. She was definitely the leader in their relationship. Maybe He was looking for something he was missing at home somewhere else. No idea and I don't want to think about that/him to be honest. And they HAD an PA and EA. Just no sex.

14 hours ago, S2B said:

Make a decision. You keep going back and forth. Being tough and being too soft.

you’re doing nothing but sending her mixed signals.

all this meeting up with the kids... you can be their Dad - just fine. She can be the Mom... there’s no reason to keep muddying things up while you decide.

keep your distance until the decision is made. You need the distance for clarity! She keeps coming around most days to confuse you even more.

You are probably right, but it's easier said than done. I want our children to have a good relationship with their mom, how would that work if she's not seeing them that often? I don't want them moving from their home and I am not leaving the house either. So I came up with this settlement of her coming for visit. Then only solution I can think of is me leaving the house when She's here. 

 

8 hours ago, Buffer said:

Well how are you feeling with the last discussion?

As things have been verified by SH GF, that puts some clarity in the fog. However; there are the constant lies by stealth to minimise the damage. 
Is she remorseful? I feel so. But like you said she is wanting to rug sweep this and go back to the days when you were none the wiser. However; that won’t address the how and why she can lie and risk your children and marriage. Yes there is more and she has to understand that the lying can’t continue if there is any chance to co parent in a harmonious way or R at a later date. 
One day at a time. 
Buffer
Can I ask what your MIL wanted to speak about?

 

Some days are bad, some are good. Generaly I would say I am doing better and better. I think She is remorseful, I can see She hates herself for what she did. But She lied at least about that ILY just to cover her ass. Or to not hurt me. I heard both versions.

i didn't want to call MIL, but in the end I did because I was sure she wouldn't let me of the hook. I expected another reconnaissance expedition, but she just wanted to know how I am doing and how are the kids. When she started going after my wife I ended the call. I think we should find my W another living arrangements. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by MrFlibble_is_very_cross

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

8 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Surely it depends  on the people involved and the circumstances and is not so black and white...
Plenty men have "recovered" from their wives being in full blown PAs and many women have divorced over a ONS.
There are so many variables.
Women tend to put up with more usually as they stay due to kids, finances and security, rather than it being anything to do with "recovering"...
Men also stay due to kids, finances and security too.  
"Recovering okay" may not be the reality though, if we were to delve deeper.. 
Plenty go through the motions and make the best of it.
Of course  staying in a marriage no matter how flawed may be better than the alternative...
Broke, staying in an apartment and seeing your kids 50% of the time, or only at weekends and fighting with the ex, or having your kids being brought up by other man/woman, is not what some really want.

This is what's worst about this. If I decide to divorce my wife what will i get? 50/50 custody at best, 2 homes, child support and probably some other guy (or guys) playing daddy. I am against staying just for kids.. but damn.

 

7 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Has your attorney outlined what the costs will be with regard to division of assets? Why would you talk to a realtor before you talk to your attorney?

What did the attorney advise you with regard to child custody/visitation and child support?

What did your attorney suggest is the best course of action?

Since this is a potential legal matter make sure you get professional advice.

 

 

I do get professional help. I got very rough estimate of market value of our house and I know what to expect if it comes to divorce. As I said before 50/50 on assets during marriage (basicaly just our house and car), child support (a lot less than what I would willingly pay) and probably 50/50 child care if I wanted. 

[basil67]

2 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I want our children to have a good relationship with their mom, how would that work if she's not seeing them that often? I don't want them moving from their home and I am not leaving the house either. So I came up with this settlement of her coming for visit. Then only solution I can think of is me leaving the house when She's here. 

Why do you think she'd agree to leave the house?   

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

12 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Why do you think she'd agree to leave the house?   

She already did. She's staying at her parent's. But it's only temporarily, we need to find her her own place sooner then later.

[basil67]

2 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

She already did. She's staying at her parent's. But it's only temporarily, we need to find her her own place sooner then later.

She might take a different stance when divorce lawyers get involved.  

[elaine567]

19 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

She already did. She's staying at her parent's. But it's only temporarily, we need to find her her own place sooner then later.

I doubt she will leave the marital home without a big fight.
Fine she has left temporarily filled with shame and remorse, but once she wakes up, I doubt she will just get her own place and leave you with the kids in the house. 
You have no right to throw her out either. She has as much right as you have to stay in the house.
Can you afford to pay the mortgage on your own?
Many just end up selling the house and splitting the proceeds, as the legal fighting is too costly.
Some however do this sharing thing where the kids stay in the house all the time and the parents take it in turns to stay with them. 

[spiritedaway2003]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I doubt she will leave the marital home without a big fight.
Fine she has left temporarily filled with shame and remorse, but once she wakes up, I doubt she will just get her own place and leave you with the kids in the house. 
You have no right to throw her out either. She has as much right as you have to stay in the house.
Can you afford to pay the mortgage on your own?
Many just end up selling the house and splitting the proceeds, as the legal fighting is too costly.
Some however do this sharing thing where the kids stay in the house all the time and the parents take it in turns to stay with them. 

This is very logical.  Things may be heated right now, but she stepped away (temporarily) so you both have a chance to cool down and assess the next steps.

The marital home is shared, so you don't have a right to throw her out.  You have every right to look for an apartment just as she does, if you don't want to see each other.  If it's going to be a big legal battle, selling and splitting the proceeds is probably the most hassle-free option if you choose to divorce.

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

The marital home is shared, so you don't have a right to throw her out. 

I hope things work out for you, but this is correct and the main reason why an attorney's step by step advice is crucial now, whether you reconcile and particularly in the event of divorce.

If you divorce, and it's time for the custody hearing, using tactics like kicking her out of a house she legally owns and has the right to live in, won't bode well.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

She might take a different stance when divorce lawyers get involved.  

Yes, I said it before. Sheň will either move back in if we decide to reconcile or we sell the house. But for now we both agreed she should leave our house for a few weeks and I will stay here with kids.

 

9 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I doubt she will leave the marital home without a big fight.
Fine she has left temporarily filled with shame and remorse, but once she wakes up, I doubt she will just get her own place and leave you with the kids in the house. 
You have no right to throw her out either. She has as much right as you have to stay in the house.
Can you afford to pay the mortgage on your own?
Many just end up selling the house and splitting the proceeds, as the legal fighting is too costly.
Some however do this sharing thing where the kids stay in the house all the time and the parents take it in turns to stay with them. 

See my reply to basil67. We never had my/your money. Always ours. Of you want to be technical about It, OK - I paid for most of it (80% percent since she was at home with kids) but the house is 50/50 in both our names. If we sell it She'll get 50% market value. There is no mortgage, we paid for it from our own pocket. It took us 6 years (we built it basicaly ourselves) but at least we are mortgage free, which is great. 

 

9 hours ago, S2B said:

You mean SHE needs to find an apartment.

You seem to take responsibility for all the things SHE should feel responsible for.

and her visitation? Well... SHE can figure out how to come visit her kids when you get custody of them. That’s for HER to figure out - not you. It doesn’t stop her from being a good mom. She can be a good mom if you divorce.

 

Yes, She needs to find an appartment. But She's still my wife and mother of my children who is now jobless and without savings. So I will pay for it until She gets on her feet. What She did was horrible, absolutely. But I am not going to kick her out on a curb. If She wasn't remorseful It would be a lot different situation.

But that's all in case we decide to divorce. Still not sure about that. 

 

4 hours ago, S2B said:

Seek some professional help with codependency. It’s affected you deeply.

she did this. The consequences are hers. Repairing the damage is hers. 
 

parenting separately and effectively is hers too - if you divorce. 

Will read on that later, thank you. I agree we are both intermingled more than we realize. But we spend 1/3 of our lives together, have two children and life together. I don't think you can cut it loose in two weeks.

[schlumpy]

The only aspect of reconciliation that I find troubling is her attempt to "get back to normal" with the hug and kiss. In my humble opinion that is an open window into how much remorse she feels and of what type and quality it is.

She is not on the same page as you are. Maybe she will get there later on. She may be in denial because she has told the truth and that should be the end of it from her point of view. 

The idea is for her to fully understand what she risked and express her regret in ways that make it unlikely there will be a repeat in the future.

Has she read any of the popular books on infidelity like "Not Just Friends"? Is she doing any research at all?

Is she talking about individual counseling for herself?

She should be making an attempt to fix this that you can recognize as a good faith effort. 

[merrmeade]

Just to let you know a similar situation regarding the arrangement:: 

My son’s wife gave my son the “I love you but I’m not in love with you” two years ago this month. She was consulting her boss and updating him, so my son suspected there was more to it. (Sure enough they are dating now. He suspects it was an EA already then).

They tried marriage counseling but she made it clear she did not want to try. 

He wanted her out of the house asap. She found the apartment and was gone in a week. .He paid for it until they filed for divorce. He pays insurance and a certain amount of child support and is buying her half of the house (community property state). They have 50/50 child custody and switch every week. So it does happen. It’s a choice.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

I have been thinking about it since last night and you all are right. We ARE stalling. So I sent my wife text telling her that if we want to move forward in any direction she needs to put together list of steps she will take to show me she wants this marriage, wants to stay together and what concrete steps she will take and when. I gave her time till Wednesday to put it together. 

[Wiseman2]

15 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I have been thinking about it since last night and you all are right. We ARE stalling. So I sent my wife text telling her that if we want to move forward in any direction she needs to put together list of steps she will take to show me she wants this marriage, wants to stay together and what concrete steps she will take and when. I gave her time till Wednesday to put it together. 

Not sure what that would accomplish.  Remorse homework?

Please make sure you cover all the bases. That means professional marriage counseling as well as finally getting a consultation with an attorney to legally navigate separation, potential divorce and child issues.

Lives are at stake, particularly the fate and well being of your kids 

That being the case, don't let this life altering situation be a DIY thing, guided by horrible hateful advice on infidelity sites. (Much of it is illegal in many jurisdictions, such as spying, eviction,etc.)

It seems to just keep confusing you. Where did this idea of writing out some list come from? Or schmoozing with the co-workers GF?

There's no coming back from the scorched earth approach. It's harmful to everyone involved, most of all your kids. Get appropriate professional advice.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Wiseman2

[elaine567]

35 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I have been thinking about it since last night and you all are right. We ARE stalling. So I sent my wife text telling her that if we want to move forward in any direction she needs to put together list of steps she will take to show me she wants this marriage, wants to stay together and what concrete steps she will take and when. I gave her time till Wednesday to put it together. 

I am sorry, but this is just nonsense.

[Miss Spider]

That will accomplish NOTHING

Edited November 23, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Annonymous1234]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Not sure what that would accomplish.  Remorse homework?

Please make sure you cover all the bases. That means professional marriage counseling as well as finally getting a consultation with an attorney to legally navigate separation, potential divorce and child issues.

Lives are at stake, particularly the fate and well being of your kids 

That being the case, don't let this life altering situation be a DIY thing, guided by horrible hateful advice on infidelity sites. (Much of it is illegal in many jurisdictions, such as spying, eviction,etc.)

It seems to just keep confusing you. Where did this idea of writing out some list come from? Or schmoozing with the co-workers GF?

There's no coming back from the scorched earth approach. It's harmful to everyone involved, most of all your kids. Get appropriate professional advice.

This. . . .  I hope things work out for you, OP, whatever path you decide to take. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

58 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Not sure what that would accomplish.  Remorse homework?

It will let us move forward, now we are just treading water. W told me early on she will do anything to show me she's sorry and to save our marriage. I want to know what that means, what steps she will take. "Doing anything" means absolutely nothing, it's just words.

I take everything I read here wit some distance. It's my life after all, I will have to live with my choices.

36 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I am sorry, but this is just nonsense.

Why? Be blunt please. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

. W told me early on she will do anything to show me she's sorry and to save our marriage. 

If that is the case, why won't she go to marriage therapy with you?

[ExpatInItaly]

1 hour ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

.I want to know what that means, what steps she will take. "Doing anything" means absolutely nothing, it's just words.

What does it mean to you? 

What is it you want to see her do? I think you need to define the terms for yourself, too, or she's just going to be tossing ideas into the wind without really knowing if that's what you want or need. 

[TobyBoy]

I think a list of conditions is good. Here is generic list of conditions that would need to be met for me to consider reconciliation. 
1. No more lies or minimizing of facts. 
2. Full transparency, phones, social media, emails...

3. IC(individual counseling) 

4. STD test. 
5. No Contact with her affair partner or enablers. 
6. Quit her job where affair occurred. 
7. Find a new job. 
8. Polygraph 

9. Written detailed timeline of her affair.

I understand some conditions have already been met. These are just the minimum I would use. 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by TobyBoy
Added 9.