I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Watercolors]

Mr Flibble,

Her letter is all about HER. None of its about you or your two children. Or, her reasons for cheating on you. Had she written you a letter like that; where she put you first and your two children first and explained why she cheated, that shows that she respects you. As it stands, her letter is all about her but written in a way to paint herself as a victim of her circumstances, "I didn't know any better" to "I'm selfish" etc. which are just excuses...they are not actual reasons that explain to you why she chose to cheat on you.

Marriage Counseling should not be about your wife explaining to you her reasons for cheating. Marriage Counseling should be about why your wife doesn't respect you enough to communicate to you when she feels like the marriage isn't working. Her cheating is the result of her not respecting you enough to have those hard conversations that married couples have when their marriage goes through phases.

The fact that your wife is either incapable or just simply couldn't be bothered to monitor the health of the marriage and alert you when she feels like her needs aren't being met is a HUGE red flag to you, because it shows you that your wife is not invested in your marriage for the same reasons that you have been invested for the past ten years together.

It's clear from her "me, me me!" letter, that she's not thinking about your feelings or your well-being. She's just defending herself, by painting herself as a victim which she definitely is NOT. She's just a horrible human being who is immature and selfish who doesn't respect her husband.

[Miss Spider]

That’s ridiculous. 
Note her use of the word “free“. She feels trapped with you. She’ll absolutely do this again. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[TobyBoy]

In her letter she mentions that she “loves you very much”, but nothing about being physically/sexually attracted to you. Why is that? 

[Watercolors]

1 minute ago, TobyBoy said:

In her letter she mentions that she “loves you very much”, but nothing about being physically/sexually attracted to you. Why is that? 

Her letter is extremely revealing, isn't it?

[MickeyBill]

There is always lot of navel gazing about the why. Doesn't it just come down to the cheater simply did not care about anything or anyone else than themselves?

[Zona]

2 hours ago, MickeyBill said:

There is always lot of navel gazing about the why. Doesn't it just come down to the cheater simply did not care about anything or anyone else than themselves?

She basically admitted she cheated because she is selfish and entitled, and that she felt that she deserved to be free to do as she pleases, and because she wasn't happy. In other words, she did it because she wanted to with no regard to how much it would affect OP or his daughters.

Time will tell if she is just in damage control mode and trying to save her reputation. If she shows increasing remorse over time by her actions, you may be able to reconcile, but only if she can figure out why she gave herself permission to cheat in the first place.

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Zona

[spiritedaway2003]

My advice: take a break from this forum.  It's a good time to get advice from people, but at some point, you will need to make a decision that's right for you and your life and be able to stand in that decision.  Because at the end of the day, you're the one who has to live it.  I'd highly encourage you to sign up for some IC so you can work through the feelings of the betrayal.  Figure out what you can live with and what you can't.  Figure out if her list of things are worth to give it a try, or if you are over the marriage. 

My opinion is that her letter seems sincere enough.  There are obviously still things to dig through (e.g. why she felt entitled to cheat), but that's for a conversation with you or in marriage counseling.  You can't expect everything to be put in a letter.  That's a conversation.  She admitted her wrong-doing.  She has to talk in "I" because that's the most effective way of owning up her actions.  But others will find fault with it, simply no letters or no apologies will ever be enough.  The reality is that even the best written and most well-meaning letter will get ripped to shreds here, because of the question "Why?" 

She does have a list of actionable items, some of which will take time to set up. Giving it until the end of the year, if you are willing, is also a way to see if your feelings had changed.  You can always change your mind, but it sounds like she is remorseful and willing to sign the papers if that is what you want.  I do think the letter is sincere enough, but it's a first step.  Her actions will speak volume. 

I'd encourage you to sign up for some IC to at least help sort out your feelings and headspace, before making major life changes. Best of luck.

Edited November 26, 2020 by spiritedaway2003

[Watercolors]

17 minutes ago, Zona said:

She basically admitted she cheated because she is selfish and entitled, and that she felt that she deserved to be free to do as she pleases, and because she wasn't happy. In other words, she did it because she wanted to with no regard to how much it would affect OP or his daughters.

Time will tell if she is just in damage control mode and trying to save her reputation. If she shows increasing remorse over time by her actions, you may be able to reconcile, but only if she can figure out why she gave herself permission to cheat in the first place.

 

And admittance isn't the same as confession/acceptance for her selfish behavior. Anyone can admit their wrong -- most people are only sorry when they're caught, not sorry for what they've done. I view her letter to the OP as a slight of hand.

She's implying that cheating on him was wrong, but she doesn't explicitly confess the reasons WHY she cheated on the OP, or apologize TO the OP in a way that communicates any respect she has (because she doesn't seem to have any).

Her letter is an outward expression of her weak ego; the way she distorts the OP's perception with her faux apology to make her come across as less threatening to him. Doing so protects her fragile ego, the way she distorts the facts, (or omits them, in this case of her letter), so that she's no longer culpable for her cheating on the OP.

The OP's wife is so weak, she has to warp the OP's perception of her actions (which my gut tells me, she's hiding more than she's let on), in order to defend herself as not having had sex with SH (b/c of those calendar dates she mentioned to the OP that put her with him, instead of with SH at the hotel on the date he claimed she was with SH). I think the OP's wife still had sex with SH but won't come clean about it...yet.

Her letter is suffused with deception.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Watercolors

[basil67]

Without a lot of therapy, she probably can't tell you why she cheated.  

[TobyBoy]

30 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

And admittance isn't the same as confession/acceptance for her selfish behavior. Anyone can admit their wrong -- most people are only sorry when they're caught, not sorry for what they've done. I view her letter to the OP as a slight of hand.

She's implying that cheating on him was wrong, but she doesn't explicitly confess the reasons WHY she cheated on the OP, or apologize TO the OP in a way that communicates any respect she has (because she doesn't seem to have any).

Her letter is an outward expression of her weak ego; the way she distorts the OP's perception with her faux apology to make her come across as less threatening to him. Doing so protects her fragile ego, the way she distorts the facts, (or omits them, in this case of her letter), so that she's no longer culpable for her cheating on the OP.

The OP's wife is so weak, she has to warp the OP's perception of her actions (which my gut tells me, she's hiding more than she's let on), in order to defend herself as not having had sex with SH (b/c of those calendar dates she mentioned to the OP that put her with him, instead of with SH at the hotel on the date he claimed she was with SH). I think the OP's wife still had sex with SH but won't come clean about it...yet.

Her letter is suffused with deception.

I totally agree with the above! The idea that SH had a whole harem of woman to chose from to take to a hotel during his lunch break is pretty far fetched! There was only one.....one woman willing to put husband, children, career at risk for some  forbidden sex. 

[Zona]

15 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

I think the OP's wife still had sex with SH but won't come clean about it...yet.

That's very possible. In fact her admission that she did it because she was selfish, entitled, unhappy and wanted to be "free" greatly increases the probability that she went through with it and is now covering it up.  OP will have to try to figure out if he has the truth. VAR's and the threat of a polygraph are the tried and tested methods a lot of people use.

[mark clemson]

She may not have mentioned sexual attraction because he has pushed away and felt bad, e.g. when she tried to hug you. She may have sensed it was making you upset and felt that it was inappropriate to mention or would be seen as disingenuous on her part.

If you read back, apparently SH did indeed have at least one other woman he took to that hotel room.

In my view, suggestions that she's still holding back info are jumping to conclusions. I COULD be wrong about that, but - you can't actually squeeze blood from a rock. If there's nothing to confess, but one assumes there must still be - well, you came upon this before - how does one prove a negative? Answer: you don't, because it's not possible.

The one thing I do find disingenuous in the text is the "give me a year" thing. To me this seems like asking for time to normalize things, which, to my mind is a form of rugsweeping. I might be wrong in how it's intended, I don't know. Not much of a mind reader.

At this point it's clear that she's choosing you. Some women don't - they realize the affair "means" they no longer love their husband, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. Whether you can bring yourself to do the same for her under these circumstances remains to be seen, and you may not know for sure for a while.

[Buckeye2]

6 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

And here is her list:

- I will have all her passwords to phone, e-mail and any SM account she has (I know only about her FB)

- She will delete her Facebook if I want her to

- I can go through her phone anytime I want. I can run any kind of recovery software on it

- I will have full access to her accounts and card transaction history

- I can put GPS tracking on her phone and car

It’s nice for a WS to volunteer this but it’s only symbolic.   If she gives you a list of 99 devices and their passwords then you’ll have a list of 99 things she will not use to contact men.  All she would need is a burner phone.  She could put her phone in a locker at her new work and have calls forwarded to her burner phone.

There are so many ways to contact people today that it would take the CIA to keep tabs on her.   Plus, it would be a full time job for you to keep track of all that. 

So don’t count on surveillance to keep her on the straight and narrow.   She has to know that one more slip up and you’re gone.   I don’t know how things work where you live but you could divorce and live with her.   That way she will have faced a consequence and she would know that if she cheated again you could just walk.

 

[TobyBoy]

9 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

If you read back, apparently SH did indeed have at least one other woman he took to that hotel room

I must’ve missed that part. I thought SH admitted to his girlfriend that he took OP wife. But, I guess his “other” woman just happened to have the same lunch schedule as SH. 

[Watercolors]

I realize that I've changed my tune towards Mr. Flibble's wife. But I agree with the poster Buckeye2 about her "list" for Mr. Flibble. It's only symbolic in gesture. Like I said earlier, words are but wind. She can tell Mr. Flibble what he wants to hear, but that means nothing without action to support those promises.

Until his wife explains the WHY of her cheating, Mr. Flibble will be stuck in a painful limbo of sorts. The longer she takes to explain herself, the harder it may be for Mr. Flibble to trust his wife ever again. Cheating is a choice...it's not a mistake.

 

[Pottering About]

Wow, what a lot of negativity on here. What has happened to some people to make them feel like this? You can feel the anger and pent up frustrations being transferred on to your wife. I will probably get hammered for saying this but someone has to get some balance in here.

Yes, the letter is not perfect but wouldn’t you be more suspicious if it was?  So her words may not have met the obviously high standards of some but FFS!

To me, this was a very difficult letter, both for the person to write and for you to read. IMO, she does put forward reasons for her affair and, from my experience working in HR, these reasons are far more common than you think.

Women returning to work do feel trapped by the SAHM role, as do men. Years of having to put others before your needs make you feel like that. Going out into the workplace is exciting, it is fun, it is a chance to start life over and get some ME time. This, in itself, is not something to be condemned.

What is obviously wrong is the way she allowed herself to get sucked into this affair and I don’t think anyone can say anything than she was wrong. It wasn’t a mistake, it was wrong and indefensible. 
 

However, this is about how you move forward. The list she provided drew yet more criticism. What more do people want? Why don’t people make POSITIVE suggestions if they feel something is missing? Time to P*SS OR GET OFF THE POT!  OFFER SPECIFICS!   Yes, she can get other accounts or phones, nothing is going to be 100% but that attitude is just going to eat you alive.

I hope never to become so cynical that I see very abject regrets and apologies as meaningless words or rug sweeping. HOW ELSE COULD SHE HAVE PUT IT? GIVE SOME SPECIFIC WORDS INSTEAD OF SNIPING AT WHAT SHE HAD WRITTEN. 

The only thing that matters here OP, is what you think. The letter makes pretty hard reading and I do not know if I would be able to recover from it. Any possible reconciliation is going to take time and the 12 months your wife asks for may not be enough if other threads are anything to go by. 
 

I do think/hope that the letter was truthful and offered a way forward if you want to take it. I do also think you and your family have the opportunity for a good life together. No, it will never be the same but both of you will have learnt from this experience and a loving, happy, fantastic marriage can rise up from the ashes.

As you may have gathered, feeling pretty p*sped off at the way some people have treated you and your wife, particularly lately,.Expecting the wrath of the righteously sanctimonious now but, so what. 
 

Good luck and wishing you all the best.

 

[Wiseman2]

At least you know how unhappy she was being a SAHM and that she was afraid to talk to you about that.

She takes responsibility for the affair and probably looks forward to working again.

In the long run divorce is probably the best option.

If she hated being a SAHM and your wife, she'll really hate being a prisoner.

As long as you both focus on your kids, and your jurisdiction is 50/50 with assets and children, you'll both do fine finding happier ways to live and partners you can love and trust.

She doesn't love you. No amount of lists and punishment will change that. It will just reinforce that the marriage has been over for a while before the affair.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Thank you all. I read all your replies and decided to keep myself off this forum at least for a few days. I plan to instigate LC with my wife for now too. I feel a little overwhelmed and I need to think this through in peace withoun any interventions from outside. Please don't take this as me not being grateful for your opinions and help. That's not the case.

So everytime she comes over instead of joining I will leave the house. Hope she will understand and will not try to fight me on this.

As for the letter - I feel it's genuine. I think the reason why you all find it fake and dishonest is because you get only part of a story. I wish I could put here everything that was said, how It was said and why. But I don't think it's possible.

So that's it for now. See you all later

 

[schlumpy]

13 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

As for the letter - I feel it's genuine. I think the reason why you all find it fake and dishonest is because you get only part of a story. I wish I could put here everything that was said, how It was said and why. But I don't think it's possible.

So that's it for now. See you all later

 

I for one do not think the letter she sent was disingenuous. I see it as a real first step in the right direction. It is what she should be saying.

I also make allowance for the translation. My wife is German and translating the nuances of any language into another is very difficult.

[princessaurora]

5 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

At least you know how unhappy she was being a SAHM and that she was afraid to talk to you about that.

She takes responsibility for the affair and probably looks forward to working again.

In the long run divorce is probably the best option.

If she hated being a SAHM and your wife, she'll really hate being a prisoner.

As long as you both focus on your kids, and your jurisdiction is 50/50 with assets and children, you'll both do fine finding happier ways to live and partners you can love and trust.

She doesn't love you. No amount of lists and punishment will change that. It will just reinforce that the marriage has been over for a while before the affair.

She never said she hated being a wife. You can hate being home with kids all day. That doesn't mean you hate being married.There is a world of difference. And just because she cheated does not mean she doesn't love her husband.  I have a friend who cheated on her husband over 15 years ago. Because of Hurricane Katrina, her workplace was destroyed and she had to relocate a few states away to the next location. Her husband still had his job at the University so he stayed put and flew up there every Friday afternoon.  She had never had sex with another man in her life  and when someone in her apartment complex started flirting and paying attention to her she got all caught up in it. They ended up having sex several times. The guilt led her to tell her husband about it and it took him awhile but he forgave her. They worked through it, are still married, and she hasn't ever felt the need to do it again. And they have no children, so that's not why she stayed. She stayed because she loves her husband. She just made a huge mistake.  While some who cheat don't love their spouses, there are plenty that do and based on how emotionally distraught she is and how much she's trying to reconcile I do believe she loves him. Yes, what she did was totally wrong and she never should have put herself in that situation, but people do hurt the ones they love sometimes. So, I don't think it's right to try and convince the OP his wife of over 13 years doesn't love him and I don't think it's helpful to him at all. 

[princessaurora]

10 hours ago, TobyBoy said:

The idea that SH had a whole harem of woman to chose from to take to a hotel during his lunch break is pretty far fetched!

Some men are very good at playing women. One of the guys in our office was sleeping with 3 different married girls for months who all had young children. He would have sex with them at lunchtime. He was very manipulative and got off on getting married women to break their vows. It was his thing and you could look at these girls and see the spell he had them under. They all knew about each other and would fight over him. Some men just know how to push all the right buttons to break a woman down. Apparently,  SH is one of these sleazeballs. 

[Buckeye2]

2 hours ago, princessaurora said:

And just because she cheated does not mean she doesn't love her husband. 

That’s very true.   They can love the life they have with their husband and want to grow old with him.   They can love the family and social ties they have with their husband.   He can be as much of a family member to them as a blood relative.  They would give him a kidney if he needed one.

Many in this category don’t consider physical cheating to be a big deal.  In their mind they really didn’t cheat because they never intended to leave their husband.

The above is why, after being caught, they’re immediately willing to walk over hot coals to save their marriage. 

They thought that they would never be caught and had a great life with two men supplying their needs.   The men were even specialized.  One to supply the boring husband stuff and the other excitement.  

Quite often the one that provides excitement isn’t willing to put in the time to provide boring husband stuff.

In a way the husband has to earn the sex that the OM gets merely for being exciting . 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Buckeye2

[Watercolors]

Mr Flibble I don't understand why you only posted parts of your wife's letter to you. You know that skews our responses don't you - we don't have the full letter and what she said. Did she give you explicit reasons for why she cheated on you in her letter, that you left out for us? Just curious.

Good luck with your situation. I hope you and your wife can figure out your situation for an outcome that suits you both.

Edited November 26, 2020 by Watercolors

[Uruktopi]

5 hours ago, princessaurora said:

 And just because she cheated does not mean she doesn't love her husband. 

We surely have different meanings on what love is.

If you are right there is something that remains true: I would rather be single for a lifetime than having that kind of...of....of.... (oh well) love.

[Uruktopi]

3 hours ago, Buckeye2 said:

That’s very true.   They can love the life they have with their husband and want to grow old with him.   They can love the family and social ties they have with their husband.   He can be as much of a family member to them as a blood relative.  They would give him a kidney if he needed one.

Many in this category don’t consider physical cheating to be a big deal.  In their mind they really didn’t cheat because they never intended to leave their husband.

The above is why, after being caught, they’re immediately willing to walk over hot coals to save their marriage. 

They thought that they would never be caught and had a great life with two men supplying their needs.   The men were even specialized.  One to supply the boring husband stuff and the other excitement.  

Quite often the one that provides excitement isn’t willing to put in the time to provide boring husband stuff.

In a way the husband has to earn the sex that the OM gets merely for being exciting . 

Standing applauses!