I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

First part of it is how you're asking for space, her moving out, transparency and letters etc.   It's contradictory.   Space and her moving out are for if you wish to divorce.  Reconciliation in terms of letters and transparency are for if you want to work through it.    But you're having her do the whole lot without showing your hand... and as she's desperate to keep the family together, she's going along with it.  But if choose divorce after you've made her pay for her sins with letters and tears and promises, it won't be good. 

Likewise, asking her to agree to amicable divorce and for you to have the house and the kids while she's willing to agree to anything out of desperation will come back to bite you.    She should not be agreeing to anything while she doesn't have a lawyer and will likely change her tune when she's got one.  

 

 

I don't see it as contradictory. We both need time apart to think straight. There is a lot of emotions, too much actually. So staying apart is not to remove myself from my marriage but to not get overwhelmed by this. And as for my intentions - she knows in no uncertain terms that I love her but it's hard for me to get over such betrayal. We spoke about her getting a lawyer but she refuses until I say it's over.

Can you give me a rundown of what you would do in my situation? I refuse to play it out like iťs not s big deal or rug-sweep the whole thing.

 

8 hours ago, Harry Korsnes said:

And how do you think it would have gone If they lived together?

Thinking about how the kids will react when mommy and daddy fight all the time.

The time apart will help both of them. 

I wouldn't call what we do fighting, but it can get very emotional. But we never do this in front of kids.

 

7 hours ago, princessaurora said:

Sounds like this piece of trash gets off on coercing married women into breaking their vows just like the guy that used to work at my office. He deserves alot more than a broken nose and hopefully karma will give it to him. 

Looks like it. I don't believe in karma, I have seen many people being rewarded for their horrible behaviour. I decided to simply let go of it and don't get pulled down to his level.

[Harry Korsnes]

But you know the kids will catch on then what?

Btw my reply was ment if you two lived under the same proof.

[Pottering About]

I really don’t think anyone is expecting to play it out like it’s no big deal or that you should rug sweep. Far from it actually.

This is an awful, awful situation for you to be dealing with and everyone realises recovery will take a very long time, irrespective of the route you take.

People on here who advocate reconciliation on this thread, myself included, do so because they see something that is worth saving and are incredibly supportive of you.

What would I do in your situation? Well, pretty much what you are doing now, taking time, sorting my head out and starting the healing process. I would then gradually start spending more time with my wife and let the relationship develop through time. 
 

Things I wouldn’t do are have my wife move back into the house until we were both ready and the same goes for any degree of intimacy. But then you know this already. 
 

The thing I would do differently is to stop talking about reconciliation or divorce so regularly when you do talk. I think this is an unnecessary, emotive distraction. Still have thoughts on it but ....

I would not impose artificial deadlines. These don’t work when making informed decisions, particularly when you end up making flawed decisions just to meet any deadline. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Pottering About
Typos

[Buffer]

Thanks for the update. You have been through a lot in the last few weeks. 
I feel your WW is at rock bottom and is worthy of a hug from you. Just a touch that is all for her mental well being, as well as yours. I hope that you get what you need. I feel she will do well if you try to R. 
just  my opinion only. Good luck to you. 
one day at a time. 
Buffer

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

7 hours ago, MickeyBill said:

If he has $29 he can get your wifes phone number from many online reverse lookup sources like "whitepages" 

I am just amazed that the BF had at least 5 women including Mrs Flibble on the line...to paraphrase Jules from Pulp Fiction "he must be one charming mutherfncker".

It's possible. We are not in the US but I guess we also have things like that here in Europe.

I am astounded too to be honest. The guy's not what I would call handsome. My bet is he literally talked them into it.

6 hours ago, S2B said:

The codependency issue... when she has actual consequences that may help her realize she really really messed up and has to sacrifice some things - looks like you come in and rescue her so the consequences are taken away.

she won’t learn that way.

let her sell the jewelry! Don’t bail her out of anything! She can figure out ways to make amends to you... let her! She should also be paying for HER own counseling! She will appreciate it more when she pays.

 

heck, you should have seen all the jewelry I sold after my 27 year marriage ended - it happens - let it happen to her.

in fact, I sold almost everything in a 4200 square foot house - some things just need to happen after the $hit hits the fan.

 

You are right, I probably am what you cam call codependent. We both are. Is it a problem? We spend last 13 years together so I think it's expected, right?

I am pretty sure she fully realized how much she f***.d up our lives. That's obvious. But I just simply can't be cruel to her, that's not who I am. She will be paying for her IC when she gets a new job and as that jewelery goes - lots of it is very personal and she would lost a lots of the value selling it. It simply does not make sense to sell it. I will get a pretty big christmas bonus in January so money's not a problem right now. 
 

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

How long do you have to be separated before she can file for divorce? Is your jurisdiction 50/50 as far as marital assets?

Have you worked out a formal custody arrangement or are the kids seeing thier mother when it suits you?

As long as you are still legally married, all the marital assets belong equally to her as to you.

Hopefully you'll be able to progress to divorce soon, so your children will have thier mother in thier lives according to law, not mood swings.

From what my lawyer told me there is no separation involved in uncontested divorce. Marital assets go 50/50 if there is no agreement beforehand (there is none). We haven't talked about any custody arrangements yet, I would want a shared custody 50/50. Neither of us is kind of a person who would keep the other parent from kids just in spite. I want her to spend as much with girls as she wants.

As the house goes, thats both in our names 50/50 but she offered to practicaly give up her half (~500 000 USD). If you want to be technical, yes I paid for about 80 percent of it since my wife was SAHM but I don't see it that way. Never have. What we had was ours, not yours and mine.

I declined her offer, I think it would be a very dick move.

2 hours ago, Harry Korsnes said:

But you know the kids will catch on then what?

Btw my reply was ment if you two lived under the same proof.

Yes, the older one (5) knows something is up, my wife and I never spent so many nights apart. We know we will have to sit them down and explain but it's so hard. So we try to play nice.

1 hour ago, Pottering About said:

I really don’t think anyone is expecting to play it out like it’s no big deal or that you should rug sweep. Far from it actually.

This is an awful, awful situation for you to be dealing with and everyone realises recovery will take a very long time, irrespective of the route you take.

People on here who advocate reconciliation on this thread, myself included, do so because they see something that is worth saving and are incredibly supportive of you.

What would I do in your situation? Well, pretty much what you are doing now, taking time, sorting my head out and starting the healing process. I would then gradually start spending more time with my wife and let the relationship develop through time. 
 

Things I wouldn’t do are have my wife move back into the house until we were both ready and the same goes for any degree of intimacy. But then you know this already. 
 

The thing I would do differently is to stop talking about reconciliation or divorce so regularly when you do talk. I think this is an unnecessary, emotive distraction. Still have thoughts on it but ....

I would not impose artificial deadlines. These don’t work when making informed decisions, particularly when you end up making flawed decisions just to meet any deadline. 

Great advice. Thank you. 

 

26 minutes ago, Buffer said:

Thanks for the update. You have been through a lot in the last few weeks. 
I feel your WW is at rock bottom and is worthy of a hug from you. Just a touch that is all for her mental well being, as well as yours. I hope that you get what you need. I feel she will do well if you try to R. 
just  my opinion only. Good luck to you. 
one day at a time. 
Buffer

Yes, I think last week she finaly got to her worst. When we hug I feel the pain 10 000x bigger so I try to not get pulled into it. I am also afraid I might do something stupid like kiss her. As much as I want to it would just add to the confusion. 

[Harry Korsnes]

34 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

It's possible. We are not in the US but I guess we also have things like that here in Europe.

I am astounded too to be honest. The guy's not what I would call handsome. My bet is he literally talked them into it.

You are right, I probably am what you cam call codependent. We both are. Is it a problem? We spend last 13 years together so I think it's expected, right?

I am pretty sure she fully realized how much she f***.d up our lives. That's obvious. But I just simply can't be cruel to her, that's not who I am. She will be paying for her IC when she gets a new job and as that jewelery goes - lots of it is very personal and she would lost a lots of the value selling it. It simply does not make sense to sell it. I will get a pretty big christmas bonus in January so money's not a problem right now. 
 

From what my lawyer told me there is no separation involved in uncontested divorce. Marital assets go 50/50 if there is no agreement beforehand (there is none). We haven't talked about any custody arrangements yet, I would want a shared custody 50/50. Neither of us is kind of a person who would keep the other parent from kids just in spite. I want her to spend as much with girls as she wants.

As the house goes, thats both in our names 50/50 but she offered to practicaly give up her half (~500 000 USD). If you want to be technical, yes I paid for about 80 percent of it since my wife was SAHM but I don't see it that way. Never have. What we had was ours, not yours and mine.

I declined her offer, I think it would be a very dick move.

Yes, the older one (5) knows something is up, my wife and I never spent so many nights apart. We know we will have to sit them down and explain but it's so hard. So we try to play nice.

Great advice. Thank you. 

 

Yes, I think last week she finaly got to her worst. When we hug I feel the pain 10 000x bigger so I try to not get pulled into it. I am also afraid I might do something stupid like kiss her. As much as I want to it would just add to the confusion. 

Wish the both of you the very best! Remember its soon xmas

[Wiseman2]

18 hours ago, S2B said:

.she can sell her jewelry.

They are legally married and therefore all the marital property is still hers.

You can not legally evict a spouse. You can not legally hide or block access to marital assets.

No attorney in thier right mind would recommend this.

They have to legally divorce first, which he keeps threatening her with, but has no intention of doing because he wants his marital assets.

He would rather just keep tormenting her as revenge. It works better for him.

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

2 hours ago, Harry Korsnes said:

Wish the both of you the very best! Remember its soon xmas

Thanky you, you too. We are still not sure how to do this. We are supposed to spend it at my parents this year (we swap every year) but I am not sure if it's a good idea. 

 

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

They are legally married and therefore all the marital property is still hers.

You can not legally evict a spouse. You can not legally hide or block access to marital assets.

No attorney in thier right mind would recommend this.

They have to legally divorce first, which he keeps threatening her with, but has no intention of doing because he wants his marital assets.

He would rather just keep tormenting her as revenge. It works better for him.

Absolutely, if she wanted to be here I have no legal grounds to kick her out amd I wouldn't. The rest is nonsense, you got it all wrong. Don't know if I really come off like that or you just see what you want to see.

 

i just texted my wife we need to come up with a plan for Christmas. Kids are looking for it and I don't want to ruin it for them. Any ideas?

[Harry Korsnes]

38 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Thanky you, you too. We are still not sure how to do this. We are supposed to spend it at my parents this year (we swap every year) but I am not sure if it's a good idea. 

 

Absolutely, if she wanted to be here I have no legal grounds to kick her out amd I wouldn't. The rest is nonsense, you got it all wrong. Don't know if I really come off like that or you just see what you want to see.

 

i just texted my wife we need to come up with a plan for Christmas. Kids are looking for it and I don't want to ruin it for them. Any ideas?

Ideal!!!!

How about the two promisse to not talk relatenship through the holidays and have xmas dinner at your house then you spend time with the children at your parents and then she with Her's?

[MickeyBill]

1 hour ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

Thanky you, you too. We are still not sure how to do this. i just texted my wife we need to come up with a plan for Christmas. Kids are looking for it and I don't want to ruin it for them. Any ideas?

In my case we had to go to a big family event out of town. We were in the early phase of the break up and it was pretty awful as we were trying to put on a good face. Since all your in laws know what's up it may be better or worse, I don't know...

It will be hard for everyone...Maybe stay home because of the Covid?

[Ruby Slippers]

I think it's refreshing to see the way he's handling this. She came within an inch of completely destroying their marriage and family. She deserves to face serious consequences for it. I don't read a lot in the infidelity forum, but when I do, I'm usually surprised as to how soft and weak betrayed spouses are toward cheaters.

I get the impression that she will eventually redeem herself in his eyes and he'll let her come back. The marriage is forever changed. She caused a certain kind of damage that will never be reversed. But there does seem to be hope for some kind of reset.

[McPuff]

@MrFlibble_is_very_crossI wish I’d gone your route and walked out. I too suspected. She too said he hated her workspace and her coworkers and was actively looking for work elsewhere. Then covid hit and she spent a month away from work, but eventually had to go back to work. After that she came back happy said she didn’t hate anyone anymore snd they were treating her better. She was happy. I was happy for her. But then she too received a text while I had her phone. Someone asking are you still seeing someone, asking for a friend. Right there and then I should of told him off and left her. But because of covid I had lost my job and had literally no where else to go. Well fast forward a week or two and she tells me to move out, and she’s been with that person ever since and things have only gotten worse. This all happened July 7th. I could of possibly prevented all of this happening to us or maybe not. In the end I was stuck homeless and the ex. Neglected our daughter to live a single life. I’m glad you were able to put a stop to your situation. I too am reading alone with everyone else, I find our situations very similar. 

[Pottering About]

Regarding Christmas,  I suppose the obvious question is what would you have done normally without all this stuff going on and is that still appropriate? 
 

The Christmas question was discussed at some length on a different site by someone in a similar position as yourself. They agreed that husband, wife and kids alone was not a good idea, too many potentially emotional triggers. They agreed to fill the marital home with selected family members from both sides so that the children were cocooned. Again, don’t know if that works for you.

The one thing they did agree on was that it was better if the husband and wife stayed away from alcohol.

 

[Watercolors]

Frankly, while you and your wife work things out, what are you doing to provide security and emotional support to your two young daughters? 

I'll tell you that lying to them will come back to bite you. 

I would suggest not making up a story to your 5 year old. She knows something's going on. You need to be honest with you and you need to ALLOW her to feel everything she feels, in response to the news. Do not shame her. Do not gaslight her. Do not lie to her. Respect her and tell her the truth. Don't project your own feelings on to her either. Parents do that to their children thinking it will somehow stabilize the situation, but that doesn't work that way. Children are not stupid and should not be treated as such. 

 

[MickeyBill]

17 hours ago, princessaurora said:

Sounds like this piece of trash gets off on coercing married women into breaking their vows just like the guy that used to work at my office. He deserves alot more than a broken nose and hopefully karma will give it to him. 

The old saying is you can't cheat an honest man. (It means that a truly honest man would never put himself in a position where a cheat could get an advantage and manage to cheat him) He can't hook up with a non-cheating woman. It's a joint effort to cheat.

 Did you break your vows due to his smooth talk?

[Harry Korsnes]

1 hour ago, Pottering About said:

Regarding Christmas,  I suppose the obvious question is what would you have done normally without all this stuff going on and is that still appropriate? 
 

The Christmas question was discussed at some length on a different site by someone in a similar position as yourself. They agreed that husband, wife and kids alone was not a good idea, too many potentially emotional triggers. They agreed to fill the marital home with selected family members from both sides so that the children were cocooned. Again, don’t know if that works for you.

The one thing they did agree on was that it was better if the husband and wife stayed away from alcohol.

 

Dont think thats a good idea there would be to manny coments/back talking 

[Watercolors]

4 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

i just texted my wife we need to come up with a plan for Christmas. Kids are looking for it and I don't want to ruin it for them. Any ideas?

Simple. Make Christmas about your two daughters. Have it at your home. Invite everyone over. Have it as you normally do. No need to ruin Christmas. 

[Harry Korsnes]

32 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

Simple. Make Christmas about your two daughters. Have it at your home. Invite everyone over. Have it as you normally do. No need to ruin Christmas. 

Exaktly 

[princessaurora]

2 hours ago, MickeyBill said:

The old saying is you can't cheat an honest man. (It means that a truly honest man would never put himself in a position where a cheat could get an advantage and manage to cheat him) He can't hook up with a non-cheating woman. It's a joint effort to cheat.

 Did you break your vows due to his smooth talk?

No ,I didn't, but several other girls did. When he would ask me to go to "lunch" with him, I told him I only eat lean cuisine. 

But he was attractive and a smooth talker. He was able to find the "cracks" in 3 of the girls relationships and eventually got them to have sex with him.

There is never an excuse to cheat, but  a man who deliberately seeks out an already taken woman is the lowest of the low. 

[McPuff]

56 minutes ago, princessaurora said:

No ,I didn't, but several other girls did. When he would ask me to go to "lunch" with him, I told him I only eat lean cuisine. 

But he was attractive and a smooth talker. He was able to find the "cracks" in 3 of the girls relationships and eventually got them to have sex with him.

There is never an excuse to cheat, but  a man who deliberately seeks out an already taken woman is the lowest of the low. 

I completely agree. If you have any issues with your parent, you bring it up to them and them only. You sit you a** and work it out for the sake of your relationship to ever avoid being put in a cheating situation. Some people are selfish and only think of themselves

[Acacia98]

As far as what to do for Christmas is concerned, OP, do what makes the most sense for you guys as a family unit. Maybe that's having Christmas together. Maybe it's doing separate celebrations. You guys know best what would be bearable. There's no point in having a Christmas together if it's going to be a high-tension get-together that brings out the worst in you and your wife, you know what I mean?

Whatever you decide, do make sure that you (separately or together) do something special with the kids, that emotional stability prevails, that they feel safe, and that you shower them with love. And you should probably talk to the kids about your situation before Christmas. Don't keep them waiting for that conversation. Sensing that something is wrong  but not knowing what's going on is often much worse than knowing your parents are living separately now but they still love you both.

As for whether or not you should hug your wife to reassure her. That is up to you. The idea of any of us telling you it's time to get over the pain already and start working towards reconciliation makes me wince. It reminds me of those instances where people want someone to get over a loved one's death and move on. I don't think recovery from trauma works on a fixed clock. We feel pain differently, we grieve differently, we recover differently. So honor your emotions. Forcing yourself to hug your wife through the pain would probably make you resent her more, and that surely isn't the direction you want to take. Understandably, though, a time may come when your wife decides that she can't stay in limbo indefinitely. It may end up being healthier for her to accept that things are over and start acting accordingly. If that day comes and you are still unsure what you want, it will be important for you to honor her emotions.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Acacia98

[MickeyBill]

3 hours ago, princessaurora said:

No ,I didn't, but several other girls did. When he would ask me to go to "lunch" with him, I told him I only eat lean cuisine. 

But he was attractive and a smooth talker. He was able to find the "cracks" in 3 of the girls relationships and eventually got them to have sex with him.

There is never an excuse to cheat, but  a man who deliberately seeks out an already taken woman is the lowest of the low. 

Yes, he was pretty low but he he found three women who were as low as he was. In fact the married women may be lower as they broke the trust with their husband, while you did not. I knew a guy who flirted with almost every woman he saw, he was single and also a smooth talker, said that if he chatted up 10 women every day he would get a few phone numbers and eventually sleep with a few of those. Most were single, some married. My XW said no to players like this for 8 out of 9 years...

But we are getting a bit off track from the OP.

[WilyWill]

I would keep Christmas looking as normal as possible for the kids' sake, even if it requires a bit of theater-level acting.

If you end up reconciling next year, it will be better that the kids never know how close you came to divorcing.

If you end up divorcing next year, it will be better that the kids do not forever associate Christmas with the breakup of their family. Let that news be delivered to them in some month  next year that doesn't relate to this sacred family holiday.

[Zona]

19 hours ago, princessaurora said:

No ,I didn't, but several other girls did. When he would ask me to go to "lunch" with him, I told him I only eat lean cuisine. 

But he was attractive and a smooth talker. He was able to find the "cracks" in 3 of the girls relationships and eventually got them to have sex with him.

There is never an excuse to cheat, but  a man who deliberately seeks out an already taken woman is the lowest of the low. 

My WW's AP slowly and purposely played on whatever resentments she had towards me. I think that is pretty common. He slept with other married women (he was a male nurse, so always had a ton of women around him to play head games with and try to get them into bed - all while he himself was engaged). One of those women had her affair exposed, and ended up getting divorced.

Regardless, while he may be a low-life, he never made vows to these women's husbands. They broke those vows, so they are just as low.

Mr. Flibble, sorry that you are struggling. Having some time to clear your head is great, but being separated for too long could take you past the point of no return.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Zona

[Wiseman2]

10 hours ago, WilyWill said:

I would keep Christmas looking as normal as possible for the kids' sake, even if it requires a bit of theater-level acting.

If you end up divorcing next year, it will be better that the kids do not forever associate Christmas with the breakup of their family. 

Agree. Try to keep it for the kids.