I think my wife is cheating on me with a coworker

[Harry Korsnes]

19 minutes ago, merrmeade said:

You think you know your spouse but you are about to learn there’s more to her. First, you are both in a very new situation. Second, she’s already lied and you didn’t catch it. Third, you may be looking more closely now but she’s still way ahead of you. Consider that she’s now been practicing deception and subterfuge for a while. 
 

Then there’s the apparent remorse. You’re sure she is genuinely, deeply upset and sorry - but for what? All that angst and worry that she’s going to be exposed to family, friends, mutual friends, the world whips up some genuine emotion that looks like regret but it’s a LOT about being caught.  So mix the genuine and the desperate together, and you can still end up with a performance. 

Just saying don’t think you’ll know the story today or tomorrow. It will be unfolding for years. For now, put the burden of proof - real proof - on her: a polygraph. 

I'd see how the talks go for a week or so and if he still feels ukomfortable with her story i'd have her served with a polygraph apointment, if she refuses then i'd have her served divorce paper.

[Buckeye2]

4 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

She probably wanted the attention he gave her. It's weird power move I still don't understand. 

And yes @elaine567, I now know her being SAHM and getting back into work while being disconnected from her profession probably played huge role in what happened

 I am taking kids to a park now. Will report later after our talk

 

There is another factor in this.   She has been in the role of a wife and mother for a long time.   When she was in a new environment (what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas) she could easily assume a new role.  When she was hit on she became a young and desirable sexual being again.

That’s why an old high school sweetheart is dangerous.

This is one of the saddest things I’ve heard:

A woman gave an excuse that her AP told her she was beautiful.    Her husband replied that he told her she was beautiful all the time.  Her response was “I know but you say that because you love me.”

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Buckeye2

[Harry Korsnes]

4 minutes ago, Buckeye2 said:

 

There is another factor in this.   She has been in the role of a wife and mother for a long time.   When she was in a new environment (what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas) she could easily assume a new role.  When she was hit on she became a young and desirable sexual being again.

That’s why an old high school sweetheart is dangerous.

This is one of the saddest things I’ve heard:

A woman gave an excuse that her AP told her she was beautiful.    Her husband replied that he told her she was beautiful all the time.  Her response was “I know but you say that because you love me.”

 

 

So true👍

[ExpatInItaly]

6 hours ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

 

@ExpatInItaly Yes, they do add up. As @elaine567 explained, one does not need to be gullible or weak to have someone manipulate you. But I agree, the issues are probably a lot deeper than I thought. If we decide to stay together there is definately to be MC

Of course. 

However, I don't think that's what happened here, in this case, with your wife.  I think she allowed it continue because the crush is mutual, not because he's a master manipulator. I don't buy that for a second. 

She was a volunteer participant. Not a hapless victim of manipulation. 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[TaserTag]

I want to say that I think you are a very strong and admirable person, MrFlibble, in that you've been handling this horrible situation very well.

Am I missing something with the polygraphs?  From my understanding, I thought that they were not accurate enough to be trustworthy.  I would put my money and attention into some marital counseling and personal therapy instead, but that is just me.  A good therapist can be met over video chat and help you both figure out where things went wrong and how you can sort out where you both really want to go from here. 

What your wife did to you is absolutely awful, especially with trying to make you feel unreasonable and controlling when you were 100% accurate and right about her being unfaithful.  She has obliterated your trust and that definitely needs to be addressed in a real way.  I think you need to figure out exactly what you need for the foreseeable future to make your home life tolerable and to learn to trust her again (whether that's her quitting her job and staying at home until you're comfortable again, installing a program to monitor her phone and computers, contacting her affair partner's girlfriend and coming clean and really putting a stop to their contact, or whatever else).

Being a stay at home mom must be hard and isolating to begin with, and I know that many people have not coped well with the covid quarantines either, but it's no real excuse for the choices she made against you and your children.  If you didn't have two small children, a home, and debt to that home in the mix, I'd say move on and find someone else, but leaving those other things and giving up on the family unit is a lot harder, in my opinion.  Hopefully you caught on to this infidelity and put a stop to it before it could completely destroy all of your lives.

[Ruby Slippers]

58 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I think she allowed it continue because the crush is mutual, not because he's a master manipulator. I don't buy that for a second. 

She was a volunteer participant. Not a hapless victim of manipulation. 

Absolutely. It takes two to tango. Sure, as the male he was likely the initiator and the driver, but that doesn't excuse the fact that she willingly went along for the ride. Every office has plenty of flirtation going on. I imagine Mr. Flibble would prefer to think of his wife as an innocent victim. But she was an equal participant. 

[Lotsgoingon]

Someone I know got caught in a lie with a partner. 

Over time, the betrayed partner bombarded this guy with questions. The cheating partner was patient and apologized ... crushed really .... and he answered questions for hour after hour ... day after day ... week after week ... where were you on this day? ... where did you meet her? ... how long were you there? ... What did you eat? Who paid? ... What were you feeling? ... How did you set up the meeting? ... You mean on the day we went to dinner and I was so happy, you mean the day before you had been with her?

This went on for weeks ... maybe more ... and finally the betrayed partner felt she knew EVERYTHING about what the cheating partner had thought and felt and done during the period of cheating.  It was at this point that the betrayed partner began to feel safe. She was still mad and hurt and devastated and wasn't sure she wanted to continue the relationship. But her sense of reality and connection to reality had been repaired. And at this point, the betrayed partner realized she knew her bf better than ever before. Her confidence in being able to read her bf had been restored--was never more solid.

The first weeks of this were hell for the guy, as they needed to be. And the woman was hurt by the answers of course! GF during this time didn't trust a word bf said--she wanted to know what he did that day, what he ate for lunch and how long, and why he was at the grocery store for 30 minutes instead of 15 ... and on and on. At every moment, she wanted to know where he was. Until she somehow trusted him again. 

Just one story and this was NOT a marriage--so maybe it's irrelevant.

One point though is clear: the OP's wife has to come totally clean, and the OP needs to be 100 percent convinced of her story--not just plausibly convinced, not just intellectually convinced, but also physiologically convinced that he has the full story.  Many betrayed partners need all the details, even the ones that hurt, in order to begin to build trust again.  

 

 

 

[S2B]

^^^ for sure! And I don’t think the OP has gotten but a tiny fraction of her truth.

[Caauug]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I imagine Mr. Flibble would prefer to think of his wife as an innocent victim. But she was an equal participant. 

^^^^^ AGREE^^^^

It's up to OP if he really wants to know the truth. Sometimes people don't want to know or are afraid that the truth will hurt too much. We can scream and shout as much as we want but if he's unwilling to open his eyes, that's on him, it is his life he is living.

WW easily volunteers to leave her job: She just turns the page in this chapter of her life and leaves it all behind. She doesn't have to deal with OM, the gossip at the office water cooler etc. She only has to support the story she has spun to her "loving" H who has accepted her back with open arms to save his family..... What happened at the office will stay at the office....

Why would she want to keep her job and face dirty looks and gossip at work? If she really wanted to she could soon get the message across to OM to "bugger off", all women have lots of practice in doing this with low value men making advances. She knows others at the office know what she has done, she doesn't want to face the music or chance the stories slip out years later.

She tried to monkey branch, it failed. It failed so badly she is willing to forget the whole tree (her job also)…… She has to try and stay with you OP and do damage control. She has proven to you by her actions you are NOT her first choice, remember that!!! She is only being nice now and trying to save the marriage because first choice did not work out and she does not want to be alone!!!

She would not have been "Kissing" MR. Young SH if you were her first choice....  Why aren't you?

I'm not victim blaming... Just trying to get OP to see there is more....

 

 

 

[princessaurora]

42 minutes ago, Caauug said:

She tried to monkey branch, it failed. It failed so badly she is willing to forget the whole tree (her job also)…… She has to try and stay with you OP and do damage control. She has proven to you by her actions you are NOT her first choice, remember that!!! She is only being nice now and trying to save the marriage because first choice did not work out and she does not want to be alone!!!

She would not have been "Kissing" MR. Young SH if you were her first choice....  Why aren't you?

I don't think we should jump the gun here. Yes, what she did was wrong and awful but that doesn't mean she doesn't love OP and he's second choice. She doesn't even know this guy well enough to know if she'd want him long term. As has been pointed out before she was a SAHM and just got to get back in the world again, so she might have just got in over her head with the first dude that made her feel desirable again. It doesn't make it right, but it's a strong possibility. I'm not convinced she's trying to monkey branch, she might have just been blindsided by the excitement of something new after the monotonous life she's been living so long. This guy made her feel beautiful/sexy and things escalated,  how far is uncertain. So I don't recommend putting  the idea in OP's head he is second choice because we really don't know that and I don't think that would be helpful to him at this point in time.  Obviously, there is something lacking in their marriage for her to take this to a  physical, affair,  but it doesn't mean she's only grovelling now because she doesn't want to be alone. She may truly love him and not want this dumb mistake to ruin her marriage. I mean she's obviously regretting it as she was vomiting all over the place, so there is true remorse.  I'm not making up excuses for her, just stating the facts. At this point there are so many unknowns and hopefully OP will get all the answers very soon so he can move forward with whatever he decides to do. 

[usa1ah]

One last thing tonight. 
 

If you and your wife get together and go at it like mad, don’t beat yourself up about it. It will happen almost always when the wife is trying her best to make amends. Don’t think you failed or that you are weak, so many have done it. 

[Had I Known]

Mr. Flibble, I'm very sorry to hear your wife has done this to you. 

Unfortunately it certainly did go further then your wife is admitting to.  I've spent far more time reading through the testimonies of men who have been cheated on than I should've and I can't recall a single time the complete truth was voluntarily disclosed.  There is ALWAYS "trickle truth".

You will have to decide if you can accept KNOWING your wife passionately kissed another man and submitted to the groping and fondling that ALWAYS goes with any extended "make out session", particularly with a grown man who even your wife admits wanted sex.

Then you will have to decide if you can accept KNOWING she lies to you up to the point of you walking out and only then decides to tell you what she decides she has to admit to knowing there is no sure way for you to get the truth.

As you said earlier, do you really want to be married to someone you have to polygraph?  

The smart thing to do at this point is tell her you will be divorcing her.  Tell her you hope you can remain friendly and there may even be an opportunity to look at a relationship in the future, but that would depend on her behavior during the divorce and afterward.  If she is amicable you can divorce very inexpensively and you should minimize any support you have to provide her since she was a SAHM.

The reasons you MUST divorce are three fold: 

1. It sends a clear message regarding the seriousness of her actions and your willingness to cut her from your life.

2. You know if she fights to get you back even after a divorce and seeing you date other women than she truly wants you.

3. You can make a prenuptial agreement before getting remarried that is solidly in your favor regarding finances and child custody if she were to cheat again.

I wish you the best and I believe you will find peace again when you proceed toward divorce.  Staying with her will result in constant torment due to her actions.

[DKT3]

3 hours ago, princessaurora said:

I don't think we should jump the gun here. Yes, what she did was wrong and awful but that doesn't mean she doesn't love OP and he's second choice. She doesn't even know this guy well enough to know if she'd want him long term. As has been pointed out before she was a SAHM and just got to get back in the world again, so she might have just got in over her head with the first dude that made her feel desirable again. It doesn't make it right, but it's a strong possibility. I'm not convinced she's trying to monkey branch, she might have just been blindsided by the excitement of something new after the monotonous life she's been living so long. This guy made her feel beautiful/sexy and things escalated,  how far is uncertain. So I don't recommend putting  the idea in OP's head he is second choice because we really don't know that and I don't think that would be helpful to him at this point in time.  Obviously, there is something lacking in their marriage for her to take this to a  physical, affair,  but it doesn't mean she's only grovelling now because she doesn't want to be alone. She may truly love him and not want this dumb mistake to ruin her marriage. I mean she's obviously regretting it as she was vomiting all over the place, so there is true remorse.  I'm not making up excuses for her, just stating the facts. At this point there are so many unknowns and hopefully OP will get all the answers very soon so he can move forward with whatever he decides to do. 

I think this is a bit of a reach. He suspected something,  she lied. Now, if it was how you described wouldn't think she would say "OH crap,  my husband is on to it, I should stop before I ruin my marriage " she didn't do that, she basically said f it. Hard to argue he is her first choice at that point. Like you said,  she was with the guy long enough to think she'd want a life with him....but she didn't stop, why? It most likely because she was more interested in exploring it then she was in the preservation of her marriage.  That is the definition of second choice.  Being someone's second priority. Husband and marriage was clearly not her first priority. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

Before we started yesterday I asked her if she is 100% sure she want this marriage. She was almost offended I suggested she doesn't. It took good 5 minutes to calm her enough we could have a civil conversation.

She's beem trully in a horrible state this past few days. Maybe we should have a week long pause before we get back to anything. Just to decompress. 

 

I still don't fully understand their weird dynamics but the fog is slowly clearing.

I would like to point out here that my W absolutely does not put all the blame for this on SH. Yes, he knows how to play these mind games but it does not mean that my W was not a willing participant. She had many opportunities to stop it. She didn't. She is responsible for this same as him. 

I think last night my wife saw first time for herself what kind of person SH really is. He hasn't contacted her since she sent that NC text, so He probably decided she's not worth the trouble. 

Up until today she thought what they had was some kind of "connection" or whatever, that they were each other's shoulders to cry on. Honest friends. Each other's support columns in this world. Yeah, no. 

I think the moment she saw through all this her ego got a direct hit. She feels ashamed and stupid. We will work on that later.

 

I also asked her a question today to which I dreaded the answer - if she had/has feelings for him. She thought there was something in the beginning, but definitely NOT love. Now she knows this was just plain stupid. 

 

She also admits she was attracted to him physically. I feel.. ok with that. Everybody finds other people attractive even when in commited relationship. I do too. The problem is when you start acting on it. And even bigger problem is when you act on it and you start convincing yourself it's all innocent and not hurting anyone. Like my wife did. 

 

But the truth is a lot more ugly. He was just saying the right things, pushing the right buttons like my wife was some kind of vending machine and if he has done all the right steps in the end she would break and give him what he wanted. Sex.

 

After last night I feel 99% sure he didn't get what he wanted. 

This is what happened during that session in his car. He started pushing (literally), she felt uncomfortable and left. She told me she had some kind of panic attack after that and swore she will never be alone with him and will never tell me because she was sure I would leave her. We still fight about this. 

We put our kids to bed together and before she left she asked me if I still love her. I told her I do, but it's just not the same. It's impossible to go back, that marriage is done and gone. 

 

I told her I want us to be honest to each other, so I informed her I have an Skype call with a lawyer on monday. She did not took that well but later told me she understands, we hugged and she left. She came back 5 minites later in tears and asked me for some pictures that are hanging in our house. She took some of them and left.

Genuine or some kind of manipulation? Not sure

I still love her. And I am a sucker. 

[Wiseman2]

Divorce seems like the best option for you. 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

14 hours ago, S2B said:

You seem quick to believe her words - you need a polygraph to know what is real.

Polygraph is out of a question. For now at least. At the end of this I either believe her or I don't. If I do - great. If I don't and feel she's not being honest - divorce. It's very simple. 

has she quit the job yet? Yes, this morning.

 

if monkey branching means going from one guy right away to another that's not what happened here. They never spoke about beeing together

Regarding the TT, I made it pretty clear last time this is her only chance to come comletely clean. No more lies, hiding or not being honest. Or we are done.

Yes, I will probably file for divorce. But not this year. Now I am thinking January feels right if things won't go that great between us.

 

sorry if its confusing but I am tired of formatting. I write this all on my phone.

 

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Divorce seems like the best option for you. 

Yes, if you asked me last year for my advice on this situation I would say divorce and don't look back.

If it happens to you and you have kids things are a lot more complicated than this. But I am strong on one point - if they slept together or there were talks about future, ILYs I am done. She knows that. 
 

The real question is if that's what stopped her going in that direction or if she went that way and is now doing damage control so I wouldn't divorce her. 

Edited November 12, 2020 by MrFlibble_is_very_cross

[MickeyBill]

IMO your wife knew what was happening, and where things may end up...she willing went along and encouraged it, as his attention turned her on, she is not an idiot...She was receptive to his button pushing and it gave her a bit of that feel good brain drug when texted or called...she's not "breaking" she was letting him seduce her  but he pushed too much too fast. Other women would not fall for it. Any woman over the age of 15 knows how to friend zone a guy and how to keep a guy interested...

Not sure I buy the car make out session story but there's no way to prove what they did or did not do in the car

13 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

I think last night my wife saw first time for herself what kind of person SH really is. He hasn't contacted her since she sent that NC text, so He probably decided she's not worth the trouble.  

I also asked her a question today to which I dreaded the answer - if she had/has feelings for him. She thought there was something in the beginning, but definitely NOT love. Now she knows this was just plain stupid. But the truth is a lot more ugly. He was just saying the right things, pushing the right buttons like my wife was some kind of vending machine and if he has done all the right steps in the end she would break and give him what he wanted. Sex.

 

After last night I feel 99% sure he didn't get what he wanted. 

This is what happened during that session in his car. He started pushing (literally), she felt uncomfortable and left.

 

[Wiseman2]

11 minutes ago, MrFlibble_is_very_cross said:

If it happens to you and you have kids things are a lot more complicated than this. 

Then why tell her you contacted an attorney?

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

@MickeyBill Yes, i said it many times here she was willing participant. That breaking comment was on a sex part. As you said it, he pushed too much too soon. I told my wife It's obvious given more time she would give in. It was only matter of time. She says she would never sleep with him but I am not stupid.

6 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Then why tell her you contacted an attorney?

To see my options. I don't know anything about divorce in our country. And to give her a reality slap. She needs to understand her actions have consequences. 

[TobyBoy]

Did you ask why she cut down on sex with you? 
If he was the reason to continue working there after her wanting to quit?

If sh was the reason she couldn’t wait to go back to the workplace?

Did you ask her how long she plan to continue cheating?

Did you ask for her to get tested for stds?

All these questions are designed to smack her with a dose of reality! 
 

Listen, as others have mentioned, rarely...if ever does a wayward give the complete truth at first. Ask me how I know!!

[schlumpy]

This is all about you now and what will satisfy your need to know.

Again, I can't fault the way you are handling this. It would help you a lot if you could get some glimpses of your wife when she is by herself. Away from the need to display remorse or make grand gestures of sentimentality. A window into her thoughts.

What has she offered to do to help you get over and through this "bump" in the marital road?

Is her phone still locked up tight? Are all pass words being shared? Is the GPS locater on her phone active or silent? Has she given you the written timeline yet? Has she made an appointment for IC yet? What positive steps beyond hugging and crying is she actively pursuing absent your lead?

What is she doing without your prompting to make this right and give you a window into her true nature? 

Your options are very limited without the polygraph so you will have to trust your gut and it's OK to take whatever time you need to do that. There is no rush as far as you are concerned.

I think it is not a farfetched idea that your marriage can be saved but I also would say not to move forward too quickly without a better picture of what she did and what you are forgiving. How you get that picture is up to you but a timeline will help.

Your biggest long term problem is that she comes back without any behavior changing consequences and a few years down the road it's repeat city.

I know. One problem at a time.

Good luck sir and Good Morning as well.

Edited November 12, 2020 by schlumpy

[MrFlibble_is_very_cross]

36 minutes ago, TobyBoy said:

Did you ask why she cut down on sex with you? 
If he was the reason to continue working there after her wanting to quit?

If sh was the reason she couldn’t wait to go back to the workplace?

Did you ask her how long she plan to continue cheating?

Did you ask for her to get tested for stds?

All these questions are designed to smack her with a dose of reality! 
 

Listen, as others have mentioned, rarely...if ever does a wayward give the complete truth at first. Ask me how I know!!

I did. She felt guilty, cover that guilt with anger a was basicaly punishing me for pushing on her about SH. He was part of a reason she didn't leave her job. She told me she felt out of place, incompetent. He was the one who helped her with her job. That's what started this.

It's over now, practicaly been over for almost 3 weeks. I started putting together a list of demands or points I want her to follow. STD check is there

[Pottering About]

First time posting on here but I have been following your thread from the start. Firstly, very sorry that you find yourself on here. I have been hoping that everything would work and that she would provide an explanation last night that would help you move on. At first glance, I thought that her admissions about her relationship with OM may have been enough but the more I re-read your posts and think about this, the more uncertain I become. My thoughts here are that your wife had an emotional affair with the OM would would have gone on to a full blown PA. However, I am not sure that she is willing to either recognise or acknowledge it as such, preferring only to cal it “a connection” or “feelings”. Until she acknowledges that she was in love with him, that she did have an emotional affair and that she was probably going to move to a PA, then I don’t think you will be able to move forward. Having said that, do you feel that she has taken enough steps to make reconciliation a reality and could you live with these admissions. On the positive side, she IMO did not have sex with him, had quit her job and is obviously emotionally distraught. I understand your feelings of betrayal and anger which will take time to resolve. However, with more work on her part to acknowledge the extent of the affair and full openness on her social media and other sites, I think and hope that you should give this relationship a chance. You are right, the marriage you had is dead and gone but perhaps you can start a new relationship and marriage, even if the starting point is divorce. Whilst not making any attempt to shift blame on to you, any commitment to the relationship is going to take some pulling back by you to make her feel wanted and not cowed by fear. This is far easier said than done but I really do think you can be the bigger and better man here. I wish you all the very best in what ever route you take. I hope you are able to take some comfort from the positive feelings you have had for your wife over the years and the good parts of your marriage and that you can use these to build on. Please keep posting updates.

[Crazelnut]

Mr. Fibble, I think your WW is definitely downplaying what happened in their makeout sessions. I know what you think about a polygraph, but I think you should TELL her you're going to do a polygraph and see what new confessions that might bring out.