I think I want to start dating again

[Watercolors]

Hey Shortskirtslonglashes has anyone ever diagnosed you as borderline personality disorder? I only ask because of the way you describe your main goal for dating is to get your needs met instantly, then you lose interest in the man after he meets your needs, and you reject him. It’s very similar to how a borderline personality person interacts socially especially with dating. You have a history of unstable relationships and your posts show a wide range of mood swings between self loathing and idealizing self. Something to seriously think about getting diagnosed as. 

https://www.besthealthmag.ca/best-you/mental-health/borderline-personality-disorder/

[Trail Blazer]

3 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

 

Bad idea for me to date unless I date very short term. I feel like that stops it from being such a bad idea.

Isn’t everyone’s reasons for dating inherently self-centered? Does anyone date and say “I’m doing this for the other person?” An altruistic dater sounds quite egotistical, actually.
 

It is not like they will not be getting anything out of it. I have always tried to make my dates happy. 

But yes, I do like to be chased by guys I’m into. In fact, I would say I love it. It is a huge motivator for dating. I also enjoy the time spent with guys that I am interested etc. I will also admit that yes I intend to omit the truth a little bit. There is a little bit of a moral struggle there. However, I feel like a lot of choices we make are about finding that balance between what makes us happy and not harming others too much. 

There's a difference between dating, with the intention of being completely honest, to ensure nobody gets hurt along the way, and dating to feed the need for self gratification, where if one or two people get hurt along the way then they're considered collateral damage.

Of course, everyone dates for their own reasons and everyone's fueled by self-interest.  However, that self-interest can be to find someone who you can love equally.  Someone who you wish to make happy and be as devoted to them as they are to you.

Exactly what is your moral dilemma here?  I don't want to go around in circles arguing semantics.  I believe my point is fairly obvious; if you can't be honest about your intentions then it's inherently a problem.  If you don't end up hurting anyone along the way, that's down to luck more than anything else.

I don't think you're doing anything "wrong" as such in terms of casual dating.  However, I encountered plenty of your kind on line.  Not forthcoming about what they wanted.  Sometimes I played the game and chased, a lot of the time I got bored and moved onto something else. 

The next guy might have chased and led on before ultimately getting hurt.  If the roles were reversed and it was a guy jerking women around, this lack of transparency would see him severely lambasted by a large contingent of the female posters on here.

[Cookiesandough]

1 hour ago, Watercolors said:

Hey Shortskirtslonglashes has anyone ever diagnosed you as borderline personality disorder? I only ask because of the way you describe your main goal for dating is to get your needs met instantly, then you lose interest in the man after he meets your needs, and you reject him. It’s very similar to how a borderline personality person interacts socially especially with dating. You have a history of unstable relationships and your posts show a wide range of mood swings between self loathing and idealizing self. Something to seriously think about getting diagnosed as. 

https://www.besthealthmag.ca/best-you/mental-health/borderline-personality-disorder/

I don’t think I have those symptoms. My relationships are stable until they end. There’s no fighting, drama, or anything like that during my relationships. l have a sense of self and not that moody either. Thanks for your insight/suggestion anyway though. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[poppyfields]

I am curious, how does one date to “ensure nobody gets hurt along the way”?  How can any of us ensure that?  It was also suggested that "dating shouldn't involve any harm." 

Wha?  There is always a risk of getting hurt, there is no way to avoid that.   I’ve hurt men, they’ve hurt me.  We move on from it. Learn, grow, evolve.

I don’t sense that shortskirts intentionally sets out to hurt anyone.  In fact, the opposite, her intention is to not hurt, hence the three-date limitation.   If she were seeking self-gratification, she wouldn’t give a *, she’d date, enter into a relationship, discuss marriage if the guy was pushing for it like her most recent ex.   And dump him when she got bored or whatever.

She’s aware of her limitations and is navigating those limitations as best she can by staying true to her own wants and needs while minimizing the potential harm she might do to others.  I personally think this is admirable. 

I think we all have a duty of care to ourselves, first and foremost.  I also believe it’s up to us to protect ourselves from harm or potential harm done by others.   When I dated, I didn’t feel it was up to me to ensure that a man I was dating didn't get hurt.  Nor did I blame a man when I got hurt.

We all do our best.  I don’t believe any of us intentionally sets out to hurt, but lord knows, as honest as I am, I hurt many men through my actions.  Or disappointed them.  Not intentionally but it happened.  Didn’t live up to their own self-imposed expectations. 

Was this my fault?  I didn't think it was, but I don't know now.  According to LS, apparently it was.  Apparently, it was my job to ensure he didn't get hurt.

I would really like to know, how much self-disclosure should there be at the very early stages, say within the first three dates?  Is one obligated to disclose that they’re not seeking a LTR even if their date doesn’t ask?  Are they obligated to disclose they’re not interested in marriage and children?

Shortskirts admitted in another thread that in the past, when men have asked her if she wants a relationship, she has lied and said yes, knowing she did not.  I am not sure if she intends to proceed in this same mode now.  If she does, then no I don’t believe that’s right. 

But I am guessing she won’t encounter that too much, as in my experience, and most women I know, men don’t typically ask this question within the first three dates.

Lastly, frankly I am getting a bit tired of all the shyt shortskirts receives on here.  I mean it was suggested she might even suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder for goodness sake.  I think she handled that accusation quite admirably.   I am not sure I would have been as gracious.

I myself suggested she may be avoidant but after her further clarifying I don’t believe that anymore.  Good lord she is an attractive single woman trying to navigate the scene as best she can.   She doesn’t want a relationship and is doing her best to balance that with doing as little harm as she can to others.

Unless I am missing something major, this is to be admired IMO, not judged and criticized.

 

Edited November 21, 2020 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

@poppyfields I think that anybody with integrity will behave (within reason) to mitigate the chances of hurting someone else in the process of pursuing their own dating goals.

Until OP clarifies her moral dilemma, from my perspective I can only surmise that she's struggling at times with guilt due to not being totally forthcoming with her intentions.

I don't mean to deduce that OP doesn't have integrity.  So please, don't come back on the defensive on her part by implying that was my suggestion here.

At the end of the day, OP came here with the desire to be convinced to stop dating.  Something inside of her is screaming out "I should delay my gratification".  Why?  OP needs to further clarify that before I feel I can impart with any more meaningful input.

You have to remember that OP came here for advice and to generate discussion about her predicament.  She's not had unsolicited accusations hurled at her here.  She's asked for advice on a public forum and that, naturally, will attract wide-ranging perspectives.

[poppyfields]

Fair enough TB.   

38 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

@poppyfields I think that anybody with integrity will behave (within reason) to mitigate the chances of hurting someone else in the process of pursuing their own dating goals.

Until OP clarifies her moral dilemma, from my perspective I can only surmise that she's struggling at times with guilt due to not being totally forthcoming with her intentions.

Bolded, I agree with you!  But is that not what shortskirts is doing by imposing her own self-imposed three-date rule?  Behaving within reason to mitigate the chances of hurting someone else in the process of pursuing her own dating goals?

I respect your opinion(s) so much Trail, but I don't understand what you mean by her own moral dilemma.  I see no moral dilemma here.  She clearly stated in a previous post today on this thread "bad idea for me to date unless I date very short term. I feel like that stops it from being such a bad idea."  Hence the three-day limitation.  

So being that she has no moral dilemma, what exactly is she obligated to be forthcoming about?  Do you believe when she meets a man she is attracted to and he asks her out, she should say "I want you to know I only plan on having three dates with you, and then ghost you."  Or something of the like?

Okay, that's quite altruistic, putting his needs before her own.  Which is what she'd be doing as chances are many men will not wish to continue dating her after that disclosure so how would that be tending to her own needs and dating goals?  

It almost sounds like what you believe she should do is put aside her own needs and dating goals to ensure that a man won't get hurt or minimize the chances of him getting hurt.    Which I don't believe is right or fair.

I don't know. I understand what you're saying, I just don't think I agree with it, but will think more about it.  But great and interesting discussion nonetheless!

Edited November 22, 2020 by poppyfields

[Trail Blazer]

20 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Fair enough TB.   

Bolded, I agree with you!  But is that not what shortskirts is doing by imposing her own self-imposed three-date rule?  Behaving within reason to mitigate the chances of hurting someone else in the process of pursuing her own dating goals?

I respect your opinion(s) so much Trail, but I don't understand what you mean by her own moral dilemma.  I see no moral dilemma here.  She clearly stated in a previous post today on this thread "bad idea for me to date unless I date very short term. I feel like that stops it from being such a bad idea."  Hence the three-day limitation.  

So being that she has no moral dilemma, what exactly is she obligated to be forthcoming about?  Do you believe when she meets a man she is attracted to and he asks her out, she should say "I want you to know I only plan on having three dates with you, and then ghost you."  Or something of the like?

Okay, that's quite altruistic, putting his needs before her own.  Which is what she'd be doing as chances are many men will not wish to continue dating her after that disclosure so how would that be tending to her own needs and dating goals?  

It almost sounds like what you believe she should do is put aside her own needs and dating goals to ensure that a man won't get hurt or minimize the chances of him getting hurt.    Which I don't believe is right or fair.

I don't know. I understand what you're saying, I just don't think I agree with it, but will think more about it.  But great and interesting discussion nonetheless!

It's not too dissimilar to your dismay about happy lemming's lies to get sex.  How is it okay to suppress or even lie about one's intentions purely because you know it will make the other person run for the hills?

If OP wants to only limit herself to three, or any arbitrary number of dates with someone then fine, no problems, so long as she's willing to be honest about not wanting to pursue anything serious.

However, I suspect that if OP was completely honest about her lack of desire to seriously date, she'd only attract the ONS/FWB guys, and she knows that, too.  Admittedly, there's a fair contingent of them on OLD.  Notwithstanding, those guys probably aren't going to offer her what she's after. 

It sounds like OP wants the dating experience she'd receive with guys who are looking for something long-term, all packaged up in a short-term package.

OP sounds like a decent person, albeit with some emotional challenges which she's working through.  OP doesn't sound like someone who just wants a string of ONS encounters. 

So, I believe her moral dilemma is knowing that to attract the kind of guys who'll offer her what she wants, she'll have to omit critical information which would potentially have altered a guy's desire to pursue her.  It's those guys who are open to being hurt, having put their heart (and wallet) on the line pursuing a dead end prospect.

But hey, "all's fair in love and war" is the catchcry that gets bandied around a lot to justify all kinds of less-than-ideal conduct in the dating sphere.  

 

[poppyfields]

16 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

It sounds like OP wants the dating experience she'd receive with guys who are looking for something long-term, all packaged up in a short-term package.

So, I believe her moral dilemma is knowing that to attract the kind of guys who'll offer her what she wants, she'll have to omit critical information which would potentially have altered a guy's desire to pursue her.  It's those guys who are open to being hurt, having put their heart (and wallet) on the line pursuing a dead end prospect.

Very fair points.   I have no response but trust shortskirts will respond clarifying if what is written above is true.

[poppyfields]

27 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

It's not too dissimilar to your dismay about happy lemming's lies to get sex.  How is it okay to suppress or even lie about one's intentions purely because you know it will make the other person run for the hills?

If OP wants to only limit herself to three, or any arbitrary number of dates with someone then fine, no problems, so long as she's willing to be honest about not wanting to pursue anything serious.

Bolded, I feel that's different as Lemming was intentionally lying and deceiving to achieve a goal (sex).  Admittedly, not giving a crap who gets hurt.

I don't believe shortskirts intends on doing that and I believe she does care who gets hurt.  Unless I suppose one considers a lie of omission of equal value to what lemming did, which frankly I find borderline sociopathic if not flat out sociopathic.

But again, I trust she will return to clarify if she's so inclined.  

[Trail Blazer]

2 hours ago, poppyfields said:

Bolded, I feel that's different as Lemming was intentionally lying and deceiving to achieve a goal (sex).  Admittedly, not giving a crap who gets hurt.

I don't believe shortskirts intends on doing that and I believe she does care who gets hurt.  Unless I suppose one considers a lie of omission of equal value to what lemming did, which frankly I find borderline sociopathic if not flat out sociopathic.

But again, I trust she will return to clarify if she's so inclined.  

The level of one's remorse after the fact is of little consequence to the person at the other end.  

Like Lemming, OP's situation would start by a lie of omission.  I guess the true test would be when OP is faced with the question of what she's looking for. 

If OP lies about her intentions because she believes that she would no longer be in the position to obtain the gratification she seeks, then both scanarios are tantamount to using someone for personal gain, with the potential of inflicting emotional pain.

Certainly, I don't think OP intends to operate with scant disregard for others' feelings.  In fact, I think that it's a big part of OP's moral dilemma. 

However, it can be a hard balancing act trying to get what you want out of life without having to stomp on a few people in the process.

[LivingWaterPlease]

On 11/9/2020 at 5:51 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

 

Hi basil I guess it is somewhat hard for me to accept that I’m shouldn’t be allowed experience a fun life experience that just about everyone else does. I can’t have the excitement and energy of spending time with a man I am romantically interested in on a Saturday night. Especially since I would pay my way and it’s just a couple dates.

I guess that is what is hard for me to accept. 

Except you're not interested romantically in any of them after you've dated them a very short amount of time and once they begin to show interest in a romantic relationship with you.

In your OP you mentioned that none of your attempts at finding friends has worked out. Something like that. I need to go back and read it. But, this is a huge red flag. Until you are able to establish friendships you really aren't ready to go on a first date.

Your posts under your other name, Cookies, revealed you to be a fun and intelligent person with entertaining posts. What I'm going to write, please don't take personally because you have a sweet tender side to you and I don't want to hurt that part in any way. I'm posting it so that you can benefit from it as it may help you to mull this over.

You posted some photos of yourself that were very beautiful and many people complimented you on your appearance.  My thought then was, "Why would such a beautiful woman be posting her photo on a forum where very few people ever share their photos?" 

Maybe ask yourself why you would do that when it's not necessary and when most don't even post photos of themselves.

Is it possible you have an extraordinary need for attention? Is it possible that you want to date a lot because you need the admiration that comes along with that but you don't care about the relational aspect of it beyond being admired?

Your behavior and posts about it seem to indicate that possibly something traumatic happened to you as a very young child that you have never dealt with. Either that or you may have gotten way too little attention or way too much of the wrong kind of attention from your parents growing up.

It seems to me the pattern of relational and relationship behavior you've posted about is that of a very young child. This is not a criticism as much as it is an encouragement for you to get into counseling and give it your all so that you can have a solid, mature, full and happy life!

In your OP you asked for someone to stop you from dating. So I do want to tell you to stop. Stop, Cookies. You're not ready for it and it's not a kind thing to do to others.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease

[mark clemson]

All of the recent points being made probably have some validity.

That said, if SSLL/C&D sticks to a 3-date and done rule, is honest that she is multi-dating, and indicates she is only looking for casual at the moment - how much harm can she really do?

Sometimes it's not your fault IF the other person can't see the clear and obvious signs and starts to get attached (after 3 dates!) when you're telling them all along you're just in it for fun right now. If she is straightforward about this, frankly, it ain't really her fault if the other person is so needy that they get hurt. Sometimes you gotta read the label and take the warnings seriously.

To me, if the above rules are how she intends to proceed and are followed, getting hurt is on them, not her. Honestly a person who gets all wrapped up and emotionally connected to the point where they can be significantly hurt after only 3 dates probably shouldn't be dating, but instead seeing a therapist so they are ready to date.

[poppyfields]

57 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

All of the recent points being made probably have some validity.

That said, if SSLL/C&D sticks to a 3-date and done rule, is honest that she is multi-dating, and indicates she is only looking for casual at the moment - how much harm can she really do?

Sometimes it's not your fault IF the other person can't see the clear and obvious signs and starts to get attached (after 3 dates!) when you're telling them all along you're just in it for fun right now. If she is straightforward about this, frankly, it ain't really her fault if the other person is so needy that they get hurt. Sometimes you gotta read the label and take the warnings seriously.

To me, if the above rules are how she intends to proceed and are followed, getting hurt is on them, not her. Honestly a person who gets all wrapped up and emotionally connected to the point where they can be significantly hurt after only 3 dates probably shouldn't be dating, but instead seeing a therapist so they are ready to date.

I tend to agree with this, and to the bolded, imo this is all she is really required to do to still maintain her own moral conscience and ethical code.

[LivingWaterPlease]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

All of the recent points being made probably have some validity.

That said, if SSLL/C&D sticks to a 3-date and done rule, is honest that she is multi-dating, and indicates she is only looking for casual at the moment - how much harm can she really do?

Sometimes it's not your fault IF the other person can't see the clear and obvious signs and starts to get attached (after 3 dates!) when you're telling them all along you're just in it for fun right now. If she is straightforward about this, frankly, it ain't really her fault if the other person is so needy that they get hurt. Sometimes you gotta read the label and take the warnings seriously.

To me, if the above rules are how she intends to proceed and are followed, getting hurt is on them, not her. Honestly a person who gets all wrapped up and emotionally connected to the point where they can be significantly hurt after only 3 dates probably shouldn't be dating, but instead seeing a therapist so they are ready to date.

To some, she'll do little or no harm probably. To others whose emotions may develop more quickly, she may do more harm. It's anyone's guess.

As to addressing those who may get hurt after dating her three times and should be seeing a therapist, they aren't asking. She is. Your post sounds to me as if you don't have concern for them. OP is going to live her best life possible if she cares about others' feelings and lives, even if they're dysfunctional people who should be in therapy. And I'm not saying folks who develop feelings after three dates are dysfunctional. They, in fact, may be more functional than those who don't develop feelings. Each case would be evident on it's own merits as to which person is dysfunctional or not. Point being, everyone is unique but to date with disregard for another because they may need therapy seems unkind to me.

However, to herself she'll do most harm.

It's possible there are issues of attention addiction she needs to address rather than to feed so that she can have a full life in the long run. To do her the greatest service it's important not to encourage her in behavior that is destructive to herself or others.

There will come a day most probably where OP won't have the attention she's getting now. Best to get set on a pathway that will lead to fulfillment not only at present but in the long term.

To me, supporting OP for her best life possible both now and in the long term is goal!

Not sure if I'm following forum guidelines here as back and forth between posters about OP may be off limits?

Edited November 22, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

 Not sure if I'm following forum guidelines here as back and forth between posters about OP may be off limits?

Good point 👍  it should be.

Dating is fine whether it's casual, FWB, hookups, whatever. As long as you two are on the same page, it's fine.

The only confusing thing is that you have to obscure genders to prevent your parents from knowing that you are on a date.

How much of the dilemma revolves around parents?

Edited November 22, 2020 by Wiseman2

[basil67]

@Shortskirtslonglashes you started this thread by asking us to stop you.   But you then argue why what you want to do is OK.

Was making this post about wanting us to take the role of your conscience?   Or have you already made your mind up?

 

 

[LivingWaterPlease]

57 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

The only confusing thing is that you have to obscure genders to prevent your parents from knowing that you are on a date.

How much of the dilemma revolves around parents?

Shortskirts, do you have to obscure genders to prevent your parents from knowing you're on a date?

Not sure if you've ever posted your age but somehow I got the impression you had graduated from college and may be in graduate school. Do you mind posting your age? I'm only asking because if you're 20, 21, or over and your parents are monitoring your dates that would lend some information to your dilemma that I didn't realize. If you're under the age of 18 that would also change the advice I gave earlier. I just assumed you're a woman, not a girl.

[Cookiesandough]

Hi. Thank you guys for your perspectives. Very interesting and something to consider. I appreciate you taking the time to try to help. 

To answer your question , LWP. I am 28. As I stated earlier, I don’t want my mom in specific  to know I date because she always wants more information and is very judgmental about who I choose to date. It hasn’t stopped me from making my own choices, but I just find it easier to avoid telling her about it. 

I feel there are some wrong assertions about me, but I don’t think it would be useful for me to refute them. It’s ok. I consider this thread resolved now ✅ Thanks, in part, to the advice given here earlier in the thread. I was only going to use this thread to update with new dating experiences, so I guess it can be closed or abandoned now 

 

Thank you again 

[mark clemson]

10 hours ago, LivingWaterPlease said:

To some, she'll do little or no harm probably.

There was a lot to unpack there LWP, but it seems SSLL may feel things have been discussed to death per the close request above. Clearly there are different views/takes on the situation (as usual per LS).

[LivingWaterPlease]

11 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Hi. Thank you guys for your perspectives. Very interesting and something to consider. I appreciate you taking the time to try to help. 

To answer your question , LWP. I am 28. As I stated earlier, I don’t want my mom in specific  to know I date because she always wants more information and is very judgmental about who I choose to date. It hasn’t stopped me from making my own choices, but I just find it easier to avoid telling her about it. 

I feel there are some wrong assertions about me, but I don’t think it would be useful for me to refute them. It’s ok. I consider this thread resolved now ✅ Thanks, in part, to the advice given here earlier in the thread. I was only going to use this thread to update with new dating experiences, so I guess it can be closed or abandoned now 

 

Thank you again 

Thank YOU, Short, for your kindness and transparency in stating your age and in responding with such grace about it. Thanks, too, for reiterating the reason why you don't want your mom to know. I missed that when you shared it earlier. It's understandable to me why you don't want her to know given the circumstances. Since you want to close the thread I'll leave it at that and look forward to reading your posts on other threads!

7 hours ago, mark clemson said:

There was a lot to unpack there LWP, but it seems SSLL may feel things have been discussed to death per the close request above. Clearly there are different views/takes on the situation (as usual per LS).

Thanks for your kind response, too, mark clemson! I always enjoy your posts!

[HiCrunchy]

 

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread.

Sounds to me like casual or fwb might work perfectly for u. Tons of guys online would love this. Hangout, have fun and have sex till u don't wanna anymore. And u won't break and hearts!