Is the average man really that hard up on online dating?

[Cookiesandough]

OK so I read all the time about how “most guys have to send 100 messages to get 1 response if they’re lucky” Or that “80/20 rule means that only good looking/rich guys get any interest online”

and I was thinking ......

 

really? 


that seems so crazy to me. That would mean that there are a substantial amount of men who get little to no interest from women on online dating. Or are lucky if they get a date? Is anyone here someone that they would consider average? Is online dating really that bad for you

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Weezy1973]

I consider myself average, but had plenty of success with online dating. To be honest, on many metrics I’d by considered below average. Below average height. Below average income. Pretty average in terms of looks. Decently intelligent and funny to those that like my sense of humour. 
 

At the beginning when I was OLD, I struggled, but it didn’t take me long to figure it out. One of the main traps of OLD is that it gives the illusion of endless choice, and people (both men and women) tend to shoot somewhat out of their league. This leads to two main outcomes:

1. Men tend to send messages or swipe right without getting a response or a matching swipe.

2. Women tend to get the bulk of messages from men they’re not interested in.

 

And this is often the main frustration that comes from OLD. Once you figure that out, and expand the people you’ll go out on a date with, it gets way easier.

 

[SincereOnlineGuy]

It sounds as if you haven't found the easiest way to put yourself into the shoes of another.

 

Online dating is great...   IF you're an attractive woman whose guard (and fear) is so far DOWN that your seeming social ease shocks even the predators out there...

(predators not being people to waste a whole lot of time on one person, because so many others are so eagerly in-line to be their next victim that pausing is indeed a poor investment of time)

causing you to get TONS of attention from lots of people, and a heavy lean toward legitimate, self-confident and physically attractive men.

 

Even then you have to select one... out of hundreds...   by a set of criteria far short of what anybody should be using to select another person.

It's just pure randomness... and still even a numbers game even when playing at the very top.

 

Once the prime prospects are plucked from the top of the pyramid...  then the next set from the top become the prime prospects.

 

 

The  "average"   person you seek for information does not have time, patience or interest enough for online dating.

He/she has "real life"   ongoing all around...  even in Covid times.

 

 

[d0nnivain]

I only lasted 90 days on OLD & that was almost 15 years ago.  I never really had problems dating IRL.  When I found myself single in my mid 30s everyone said go on line, so I did. 

I joined an expensive for pay site that was a p.i.t.a. with its Qs because I didn't want something causal.  I could that in any bar.  I figured this had so many barriers to entry that nobody would go through this if they weren't serious.  

I was flaked on & rejected more times in those 3 months then in my whole life.  It was demoralizing. 

The 3 men I did meet were good on paper but awful in real life.  They were not attractive & had poor social skills. I felt like they spent their teens & 20s in their mom's basements or in a book because they were all successful in their careers (2 lawyers & an engineer, so not unaccomplished men) but honestly had I met them IRL first I would not have given them the time of day, let alone met them for a date.    They couldn't make conversation.  They were awkward.  They couldn't read body language.  They were clueless.  Those were the worst dates I ever went on.  

When my 90 day subscription ran out, I closed my account & never looked back.  It was hard because the system kept sending me messages about men who wanted to meet me.  There was a lot of FOMO but based upon the undesirable selection I had been given to date, logic won out & I didn't pay to renew.  

I met my husband at a business card exchange a few months later.  He told me horror stories from the guy's side.  We were on different sites & out of each other's age range parameters.  Now my husband is drop dead gorgeous.  Objectively so.  He's also shy.   When he left income blank on his profile because he was underemployed & not making much, he couldn't get a woman to write back to him.  When he put his real salary nothing.  When he lied & clicked the high income box, they came out of the woodwork but then made demands that they wanted a first date to be at very expensive high end places.  He took a pass on all those women.  One woman who seemed down to earth turned out to be a bigot, disparaging people of different races & faith during their date & then demanding that he join her cult like religion or she couldn't keep dating him.   He was OK with not having a 2nd date. 

OLD can be an OK tool but it can't be the only way you search for love.  If it is you will be sadly disappointed more then you will find your mate. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by d0nnivain

[Chilli]

Ahhh, l think a lot of people out there just don't know how to go about choosing selectively , they just shoot at anything with legs,

Back in the day l never sent 100s of messages , fk that , l couldn't even find 1/2 a dozen women on mine that were even close to what l was looking for. l probably sent 4 or 5 to some what appeared to be very special ladies , met 3 of those but there was one in particular l had really high hope for andddd, she was even more than that and we;'ve been together ever since. Any women l spoke to though had all the same problems and burn out, it's hard for anyone male or female no doubt about that and it's all over ls too. That one - for anyone he or she, the odds are pretty slim for sure , but it can happen.

Edited November 11, 2020 by Chilli

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

I only lasted 90 days on OLD & that was almost 15 years ago.  I never really had problems dating IRL.  When I found myself single in my mid 30s everyone said go on line, so I did. 

 

Similar experience here, but I'm a guy.

I'd say I'm an average man... I did try on-line dating for a brief period of time (many years ago) and absolutely HATED it.  I think I had a few more "horror" stories than @d0nnivain, but pretty much the same experience. I (also) went back to meeting people in "real-life".

A confident man does not need an "on-line" dating service, he can walk up to a woman he finds attractive, chit-chat with her and ask her out on a date.

I met my present long term girlfriend at an apartment complex pool, in this case I swam up to her, introduced myself, chit-chatted with her a bit and asked her out for drinks later that night.

[central]

From what I read here and elsewhere, it seems many men have a poor success rate.  Of course, many of them really only want to hook up, so may do poorly unless they are exceptional.  And sincere men need to have one or more attractive traits to make much progress, it seems, since most average or better women have plenty of choice (but not always many good ones).

When I was using OLD (because meeting people in person was too difficult given my situation and location), I had great success (some great relationships and a wife).  I'd say I'm average looking, but sincere, reasonably successful in life, and a good communicator.  

[SumGuy]

15 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

OK so I read all the time about how “most guys have to send 100 messages to get 1 response if they’re lucky” Or that “80/20 rule means that only good looking/rich guys get any interest online”

and I was thinking ......

really? 

that seems so crazy to me. That would mean that there are a substantial amount of men who get little to no interest from women on online dating. Or are lucky if they get a date? Is anyone here someone that they would consider average? Is online dating really that bad for you

Online dating was very easy for me.  Got a response about 3 in 4 for the messages sent out.  Good looking? I guess if I am one's type but not universally so.  Rich?  Intentionally keep my profile to "t-shirt and jeans" and I like heavy metal so I can't be rich  

All the men I know who do OLD, all 40+ or 50+ most divorced but a few perpetual bachelors have zero issues with OLD.  In fact I an very surprised how easily some of them met someone (they are seriously out of shape, to be all judgey about it), none rich...well except for one guy  and he had the "hardest" time because he is a bit of an a**...the single guys, the world is their OLD oyster. 

None of the men I know ever needed to go to forums, or PUA sites, etc. to get dating help.   The one thing all these guys have going for them (even the a**, but hey some women like the macho pose) is they are genuine, they just be themselves.

It's like many things, in my view, the internet is where people go to complain and find like minds when there are none about them; so believe the percentage of men struggling so bad on the internet is higher than in real life.  However, do believe that some men do indeed struggle so and it can very much depend on where you live and the OLD sites you use IMHO. 

 

[Foxhall]

while I had dreams of greatness I think I have now settled for that I will only ever be average!! 

ah wel as long as one is happy,

I dont know Im probably reflective of an "average" guy or more accurately "a struggler" in terms of my stint at online dating,

getting the dates was easy enough, the in -person meet ups grew tiresome, I went on something like a run of 20 dates at one point without getting a second date,

the few women I have clicked best with have been met in real life and there were also two ladies I have kept in touch with that met through online,

so yes as regards the theme of the topic online dating or any kind of dating can be a little disheartening for an average guy who is not a "hotshot" or whatever way you describe them,

for someone though who had obvious struggles in this department, I have also found there are women out there who I did connect well with and fortunes can change,

Personally I can make women friends much easier now and that perhaps is a starting point for an average guy- build friendships with women with view to it progressing.

 

 

 

 

[salparadise]

15 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

That would mean that there are a substantial amount of men who get little to no interest from women on online dating. Or are lucky if they get a date? Is anyone here someone that they would consider average? Is online dating really that bad for you

It's hard to quantify objectively, but there are enough people on LS relating their experiences that we all know. One thing I can say confidently is, that if you're an attractive woman you have no idea what it would be like to be an average man –– in online dating, or generally. You all go through life mostly being highly annoyed by unwanted attention, trying to figure out how to be alluring to the few men you want to attract without having to be bothered by the rest. In other words, women are not even a little bit attracted to average. 

It manifests more literally in online dating than in real life because the sites create the illusion of unlimited choice, that all choices are available to you. So yea, the 80/20 thing... except I think it's more like 95/5. I've had women tell me how many message they get, and how few they respond to. I'm not saying women have it made exactly... women are frustrated because they can't find the guy they want, while men are frustrated because they can't get any attention at all, or next to none. We have a number of regular male posters on LS who have been trying for years and have never even a small success.

I've been doing OLD since my divorce ten years ago, and I've had more success than most, but it still ends up feeling yucky. I started keeping a list with notes after my last relationship ended a few years ago. I'm sometimes tempted to post those notes... would be hilarious. Like the one when I walked out the emergency exit and triggered the alarm. 

I really feel for those who have no success. Can you imagine how it would feel to literally be unwanted by any woman. Life is tough for some folks.

[Cookiesandough]

Mmm. More average guys for me then 

 

(kidding)

Edited November 11, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Shining One]

I'm not sure whether or not I would be considered average, but I'm certainly within the struggling group that has to send a lot of messages to get a response. I'm statistically undesirable in my area due to ethnicity (Indian), so that automatically makes things harder. I would sometimes message 200+ a month and usually get less than 10 responses. Fortunately for me, this area seemingly has an unending supply of women. With the recent changes to Match, I expect my ratio to drop even further.

[Wiseman2]

 

[basil67]

A male friend of mine who was starting out again in his late 50's has a two for two strike rate.   First time on OLD, he only found one woman who interested him - they dated for about 6 months.  Second time, he again found only one.  They've been together for a couple of years now and is still going strong.

The thing he's got most in his favour is that he's very easy company.

[QuietRiot]

On 11/11/2020 at 7:06 PM, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

OK so I read all the time about how “most guys have to send 100 messages to get 1 response if they’re lucky” Or that “80/20 rule means that only good looking/rich guys get any interest online”

and I was thinking ......

 

really? 


that seems so crazy to me. That would mean that there are a substantial amount of men who get little to no interest from women on online dating. Or are lucky if they get a date? Is anyone here someone that they would consider average? Is online dating really that bad for you

 

 

 

Oh man, don't get me started on this! ...too late!  LOL

I've been on other message boards where men have thrown their arms up at online dating, esp. since OK Cupid went from a standard dating profile, to a more Tinder swipe app. Apparently, OK Cupid made it difficult for men to message women, UNLESS the woman "liked" their profile. The platform announced that it knew that women got tired of the sea of emails in their inbox, so they figured they'd use another process.

A man declared that he was actually having success with the site pre-Swipe, and now, it went to nil for him.

Of course, you'll get the occasional guy that says they have great success, I'm guessing he's living in a more of a different demographic. Then some say "it's your fault that you never get replies" or "it's something that' you're doing" and so on.

And when you DO get responses, I've noticed men complaining how they are ghosted faded on...constantly when the subject of meeting in person comes up. 

Even talks of last minute cancellations and so on.

Most of the women I dated exclusively said they tried online dating, and got the hell off days into it. They couldn't deal with the hundreds of emails...so they stuck to meeting men organically in in person situations. 

[quote] It manifests more literally in online dating than in real life because the sites create the illusion of unlimited choice, that all choices are available to you. So yea, the 80/20 thing... except I think it's more like 95/5. I've had women tell me how many message they get, and how few they respond to. I'm not saying women have it made exactly... women are frustrated because they can't find the guy they want, while men are frustrated because they can't get any attention at all, or next to none. We have a number of regular male posters on LS who have been trying for years and have never even a small success.[/quote]

Yep...abundance mentality. I've always wondered why even average looking women would not be interested in an equal in looks and it seems online dating ups their expectations to beyond that. I mean, a chubby gal  would expect a guy with washboard abs.  It would seem that women on dating sites seem to expect something from a guy that they themselves cannot bring to the table.

What is sad is seeing the same faces of the same ladies that I had contacted,  in my area that are always online. They've become permanent fixtures there. Even seen some pop up in my "people you may know" list on Facebook....small world.  Figured in more smaller towns with more limited options they'd be kind of forced to be less restrictive.

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
unsubstantiated claim

[dangerous]

OLD is fundamentally a lazy way to date. That is why it is flawed. 

The reality is that anyone can go on from the comfort of their home (no effort) can lie, hide, block, ghost, play etc etc with little or no consequences. Personally i have concluded it is not a good use of time. The number of message convos, and unsuccessful dates have taken so much of my life over the past 6 years, and not productive.

Further, the stats are in favour of the women: If you have a man and a woman both average, lets call them a 6/10. The woman will get loads of appraches (so her perception is that she is above a 6/10) and the guy will be lost in the crowd (i.e the woman has so many admirers to choose from she rejects the 6/10 guy, so he feels he is less than a 6 now). This perpetuates: the woman becomes more choosey and entitled, and the guy becomes more despondent.

Personally I am over average, as i am super-fit, debt-free, popular witty... and modest lol, but I still abhor OLD as the women i fancy are either too inundated or demanding, or in any case, any "diamonds" out there are hidden and I would have to meet so many to find one... so I'd rather wait until i can meet them in real life, then find out face-to-face if we are a match.

The relationships I have had, ALL resulted from real life, meeting new people in social settings. The only results from OLD were "message relationships" which gave me thrills for what they were (either just virtual company, or sexting) and dates varying from fun to disappointing, but NEVER a relationship beyond a few dates or a one-nighter.

Do I still do OLD? Sometimes, between signing out and going back for short term whims. BUT I have no faith in it whatsoever. Its even worse during covid, and I know that my own dating is on hold until the real world opens up again.

Finally, I do recognise that there are some success stories, but my answer to that is "even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day" lol

[QuietRiot]

51 minutes ago, dangerous said:

OLD is fundamentally a lazy way to date. That is why it is flawed. 

The reality is that anyone can go on from the comfort of their home (no effort) can lie, hide, block, ghost, play etc etc with little or no consequences. Personally i have concluded it is not a good use of time. The number of message convos, and unsuccessful dates have taken so much of my life over the past 6 years, and not productive.

Further, the stats are in favour of the women: If you have a man and a woman both average, lets call them a 6/10. The woman will get loads of appraches (so her perception is that she is above a 6/10) and the guy will be lost in the crowd (i.e the woman has so many admirers to choose from she rejects the 6/10 guy, so he feels he is less than a 6 now). This perpetuates: the woman becomes more choosey and entitled, and the guy becomes more despondent.

Personally I am over average, as i am super-fit, debt-free, popular witty... and modest lol, but I still abhor OLD as the women i fancy are either too inundated or demanding, or in any case, any "diamonds" out there are hidden and I would have to meet so many to find one... so I'd rather wait until i can meet them in real life, then find out face-to-face if we are a match.

The relationships I have had, ALL resulted from real life, meeting new people in social settings. The only results from OLD were "message relationships" which gave me thrills for what they were (either just virtual company, or sexting) and dates varying from fun to disappointing, but NEVER a relationship beyond a few dates or a one-nighter.

Do I still do OLD? Sometimes, between signing out and going back for short term whims. BUT I have no faith in it whatsoever. Its even worse during covid, and I know that my own dating is on hold until the real world opens up again.

Finally, I do recognise that there are some success stories, but my answer to that is "even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day" lol

Yeah, I got a friend of mine that has NEVER done online dating. He works at a gym, mid-50s, good shape and decent looking guy for his age and he can pull women from not only the gym that he chats up , but even at the local watering holes on a Saturday night.

Thing is, socially he doesn't hone in completely on women in a crowded room. He's the kind that'll strike up a conversation with ANYONE. He's so comfortable in his own skin, and it shows. He just has the gift of gab. He can grab a utensil, make a comment about it, and get people laughing...something I can't do. lol But yeah, he's doing it the old-fashioned way.

[flitzanu]

i mean, maybe i'm average.  i haven't done OLD in a very very long time though so i can't speak to that.  i tried it once, met a girl, both of us "signed up and paid" just so we could communicate, dated a while, ended.  so, i did meet a girl on Match, we were basically looking for the same thing, and were both weird.  i can say now, not using OLD, i haven't been on a date in like, 3 years or more.