Husband is from an enmeshed family

[batfink]

I love my husband and want to make this work. However he is from an enmeshed family and he sees any criticism of that as a reason the marriage won't work. We're both seeing therapists separately and as soon as I told him mine had said his family is dysfunctional in this way and how boundaries are healthy, not something to be fought, he immediately got defensive and said 'this is why it won't work'. I said maybe we should go to the same therapist and he agreed that we will. I really don't think he'll ever see it and he is the way he is because he's from this enmeshed family and he will not change. So it's my decision to accept that and just change my behaviours and the way I react in order to 'keep the peace'.  The reason they are the way they are is due to a huge trauma in their lives so I need to understand. The problem is, if there is a boundary (always to do with our child and what I'm comfortable with, eg they wanted her to stay overnight from a very young age and I wasn't ready for that) am I now supposed to just let it go? Let them do what they want, even if I feel uncomfortable? Going with the example I set, I know she would be well looked after with her grandparents so they can't see why I would have a problem. I wonder if I'm too clingy to my husband and child. They want us to be one big family and that's what I am finding it hard to comprehend as I never had that, nor wanted it, I left home young and have had an independent life. Any opinions are welcome on this!

[Wiseman2]

4 minutes ago, batfink said:

I told him mine had said his family is dysfunctional in this way and how boundaries are healthy, not something to be fought, he immediately got defensive and said 'this is why it won't work'.    

Sorry to hear that. How long have you been married? Are you from different cultures/ religious or socioeconomic backgrounds?

Therapy is supposed to be a healing tool, not a weapon to take cheap shots at him/his people.

What you can do is have your own boundaries with regard to your house and child. You're the mother, you call the shots, it's that simple.

 

[batfink]

That is the main problem, he doesn't see why I have to have any boundaries, we should all be one big happy family. He doesn't see that there's a hierarchy in the family and everyone happily goes along with what his Mother wants. Me coming along has upset the system and he wants me to fit in to that system without questioning it. It's so hard but I'm willing to try.

I agree about the therapy, I was hoping I'd make him see that it's not all me that is at fault but he didn't take it that way. He says I should be the only one going to therapy really, as it's me that has the problem, resisting his family and causing upset with them. 
 

We've been together 15 years and married for 12. Pretty much the same socioeconomic backgrounds, same culture but they had a very traumatic experience as a family when he was young and so I understand why they are the way they are. I don't want to come across as unsympathetic to that, it has taken me a while to understand why they are this way and I can see that clearly. 

[Atwood]

26 minutes ago, batfink said:

he doesn't see why I have to have any boundaries [...] He says I should be the only one going to therapy really, as it's me that has the problem, resisting his family and causing upset with them. 

These are red flags. Every person is allowed to have boundaries and enforce them, providing they aren't causing harm or are abusive etc. Additionally, being completely unwilling to take any responsibility or accountability (it needn't be blame), is concerning. A relationship is a team sport, and what your husband is essentially saying is "me and my family are perfect as we are, and you are the one who has to change/fit in with us". I imagine if you attempted to do this with him and your family, it wouldn't go so well? 

A boundary is a boundary, and I see no reason why you should be forced into something like allowing your child to sleepover if you're not comfortable with it. 

What I'm hearing is that your husband wants you to do as you're told, specifically by your mother-in-law, and if you don't, there's something wrong with you. That doesn't sound right to me and I think you know that it isn't right at all, but I imagine their shared trauma and your husband's insistence can wear you down/make you feel quite guilty for pushing back. 

It's really admirable that you're understanding and sympathetic to his background, but is he being symapathetic and understanding about yours? We are all, mostly, products of our upbringings. When a couple come together, they need to find a way to make those two histories marry up harmoniously. I don't see him attempting to compromise or marry up anything, he's imposing his way and his family's way upon your own. You are not his. You are not his doormat. And no matter what trauma someone has been through, it doesn't get to rule the lives of everyone around them. I know it sounds harsh, but it's not healthy for it to do so. 

Did you go and see that same therapist together? I would be interested in seeing how he would react to the assessment of his family dynamic, but from what I've heard already, I guess he will reject it and decide there's something wrong with the therapist. Blaming everyone else seems to be their family-style. 

I can't make speculations about what on earth is going on with his mother and the family, but family influence is very difficult to shake off if the person doesn't see anything at all dysfunctional or wrong about the family dynamic. They need to want to break the cycle and make the change. My only advice would be to stick to your guns, and surround yourself with friends you can confide in and who are understanding of your situation. Do not give in to their demands if they are unreasonable or unhealthy, you may feel like a stick in the mud, and they may treat you like one, but you need to remind your husband that you were an individual person when he met you who could do whatever she wants, and that you could continue to do so without him if need be. He's very much taking your desire to please for granted. 

[Wiseman2]

You are fighting a losing battle trying to change his entire family and thier dynamics

Trying to pathologize it/them/him won't help you.

Simply stop fighting with your husband about your MIL and make you own boundaries with regard to yourself, your child, your house.

Be a full and equal partner. 

[batfink]

Thanks for the advice both of you. 
I do wonder if I’m wasting my time trying to work out why things are the way they are. I could just stop the fighting and let things just ‘be’. I can’t make boundaries though as they don’t see the need for them because they’re enmeshed. 

I feel he just wants me to submit and slot in to how his family run things and never question anything again. 
By seeing their side and putting myself in their shoes it does help. 
They respect my privacy, I don’t have to see them that often, I’m wondering if I should just do this as my marriage is great apart from this issue. I don’t want to be a doormat but if it means making my husband happy with just this issue I feel it’s worth it. I will keep going to my therapy anyway and see what she says. She said I can change my behaviour towards things they do (accept I can’t change them but I can change how I react) but I mustn’t lose who I am. It’s getting my husband to see that. 
 

[Ruby Slippers]

He won't change. I was in a relationship like this, where they always wanted more, and it was a constant struggle and negotiation to defend our personal time and space. I couldn't see myself dealing with that for the rest of my life, so I had to go. 

The issue, as you pointed out, is that in a healthy marriage, the immediate family's priorities come first - meaning those of you, your husband, and your child. A healthy family understands and respects that natural hierarchy. Because of the enmeshment, in your husband's mind, the extended family's priorities are on the same level. 

I think the only solution here is compromise. Your desires are often going to be polar opposite. So sometimes he/they gets their way, and sometimes you get yours. 

 

[batfink]

Yes that’s what I’ve thought too. Marrying together our differences instead of fighting for me to give in and only do things his way. 
I hope he can come to realise this

[batfink]

We’ve now had counselling for a month and things were going well. The therapist told him I do not need to work on anything with her and that I do not have a problem. I’m happy in my life the only issue I have is with him so we started to go together. When she started to get him to look in the mirror and work on himself, things went bad. After the last session, we tried to talk without the therapist being there. It went very, very badly. 
Twelve hours later, exhausted from him bringing up what I thought had already been dealt with in the sessions and me apologising over and over again, I felt I was at the end of my tether. He started to laugh as I got upset and I said I just feel like banging my head against the wall! He said ‘go on then’ and I did. 
He instantly said I’m crazy and that’s the proof that I’m the problem. He instantly denied telling me to do it. He said I will probably tell people he did it to me. (Wtf!)

I want to tell my therapist what happened and that obviously this is a massive turning point for me. Up to now I’ve been sympathetic, I’ve worked with him in therapy, we were turning a corner and things were looking good again.

I feel like this man is driving me crazy. I’m scared what the therapist might do if I tell her what happened. I am otherwise of completely normal mind it’s just this one problem with my husband. I’m so upset! 
I cannot understand how he can disregard everything that was said in our sessions with the therapist. How he can say one thing there then come home and forget it all. 

[Wiseman2]

3 minutes ago, batfink said:

. The therapist told him I do not need to work on anything with her and that I do not have a problem. I’m happy in my life the only issue I have is with him .

Sorry this happened. Unfortunately the problem is your marriage, so you can't isolate that from yourself because you are in it.

Try not to discuss therapy outside of the therapy setting.

Instead process and reflect . Cool off, don't engage in long drawn out knock down drag out fights.

Your therapist can not miraculously fix him.

Next time talk to the therapist about conflict resolution. Try to stay away from "here, fix him, he's the problem, I'm perfect" type of thinking.(unfortunately very common)

Keep in mind that you are just as involved in the marriage and it's conflicts as he is. Try to focus more on that.

[batfink]

Thank you for this. I feel better after reading your reply.

I will go back and say conflict resolution is what we need to do together and I think it’s safer we do not try to discuss things away from our therapist for a good while yet.