Intuition or Fear?

[bluemountains]

I need a little advice. Short Story: My ex-husband of 20 years had an affair, and his actions when it came out has really damaged me. I have been dating someone for 3 years and some things have my hair on the back of my neck standing up. But because I haven't found much, I worry I may just a victim of my own mind. 

Full Story:

When my ex-husband's affair was discovered, he minimized, trickle truth, lied, manipulated, you know the normal acts when the MMs gets caught. Additionally, like they all do, he kept the affair going. Ultimately, I could not get past the betrayal and also learned the truth (well some of it) along with additional affairs. He still lies about everything. And the level of manipulation, reverse psychology BS, and gaslighting has really messed with my mind. I cannot trust very much. My reality was all fake, nothing in my life was real nor sacred. And everything ever told to me is a lie. 

So fast forward 4 years post divorce. I have been dating someone for 3 years. I have known him for many, many years. We have friends in the same circle and have business correspondence which kept us in contact at times. Over the years, he would sometimes text me out of the blue, just randomly.  Never anything inappropriate, but more just friendly chat about sports teams. He had girlfriends off and on, and most of the time, he was dating someone when he did. But I didn't think much because nothing was inappropriate. When he started dating someone else (who ultimately became his last serious girlfriend who cheated on him), he did early in their relationship text me something I found crossing the line. Nothing sexual, but letting me know he wished I was single. When I responded the conversation was inappropriate, we didn't speak again minus his apology text that came the next morning. Anyway, he was always someone I found attractive, and I really enjoyed his personality, and we have a lot of things in common (which is why when he expressed his interest, I put up some major walls and avoided him completely). So when I became single., and he did as well, we started to hang out, and the rest is history.

Because his ex cheated on him, and my ex husband did as well, he was always really good about being over the top reassuring that everything is on the up in up. For instance, if someone had text him, he would send it to me. We always had each other's phone passcodes, he always left his phone laying around, never brought it into the bathroom, etc. 

Until now.... his phone goes with him the restroom, it does not leave his side. We went from having sex nearly every time we see each other (which was 3-4 times a week... now we basically live together) to about once a week. He went from sending me adoring text messages every morning when he left for work, calling me during lunch, and being in contact every minute. TO not hearing a word from him except at lunch with just one exchange, "hows your day?" and then nothing at all after. 

I have had some freak outs before and he is usually pretty understanding. Yesterday, I talked to him about his behavior with his phone and basically told me he refuses to discuss this again. His actions otherwise say unless this is something happening during work hours, nothing else is going on because he is always with me. No weird trips to the store or anything. He goes to work, and he comes to my house and we have been inseparable since covid. There have been some small things he has done, but he ALWAYS sends me photos. 

I have trust issues, and really I likely should not be involved. But I am, and I love him. My kids love him, and some reason he puts up with me. But the changes in his behavior have me feeling concerned. Plus his defensiveness is a little strange. 

There is some other really weird small things that in my mind add up to something large, but when I break them all down, I feel silly. He is out right now with a friend, which is not normal, and I haven't heard much from him. And I feel so sick. 

So how overly paranoid am I? Or is there some potential for me to feel nervous? 

[Wiseman2]

It seems like something is wrong, but not necessarily what you think. That's your baggage talking. You are hanging out way too much and getting into a very boring rut. Start with that. Stop "practically living together". Return some mystery and romance to your relationship. 

[bluemountains]

But how does that translate when there is discussion of marriage (there is a specific reason why that hasn't happened yet and will be another 2 years before will). I mean, if we can't hack it now, sounds like that would be a mistake?

[d0nnivain]

I don't know if he's cheating & neither do you. 

What I do know is that you both have a shared history of being betrayed.  If you laid it out for him that his behavior specifically taking the phone everywhere is triggering you, his cold refusal to discuss it any more & his refusal to change his behavior to offer you reassurance says he doesn't care about you.  I know it's annoying to be repeatedly accused of something you are not doing but when you know that your partner, somebody you profess to love, has concerns you alter your behavior to accommodate that person.  Instead he's digging in his heals.  That behavior spells trouble for your relationship.  You can't continue with somebody who won't work with you but rather deliberately pushes your buttons.  

[bluemountains]

50 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I don't know if he's cheating & neither do you. 

What I do know is that you both have a shared history of being betrayed.  If you laid it out for him that his behavior specifically taking the phone everywhere is triggering you, his cold refusal to discuss it any more & his refusal to change his behavior to offer you reassurance says he doesn't care about you.  I know it's annoying to be repeatedly accused of something you are not doing but when you know that your partner, somebody you profess to love, has concerns you alter your behavior to accommodate that person.  Instead he's digging in his heals.  That behavior spells trouble for your relationship.  You can't continue with somebody who won't work with you but rather deliberately pushes your buttons.  

Yes, this is how it feels. I completely understand why he would be annoyed and frustrated. This has happened a few times where he would become protective of his phone and at the same not really seem to be distant. I talk to him about, he gets his normal defensive and shuts down the conversation, but he does change his behavior and becomes more attentive. Few months later, it is back. And given my history, it sounds/feels a lot like "oh she is getting suspicious, we need to lay low." But then the pull becomes too much. Of course, I have no way of knowing that. But... damn it infidelity... the gift that keeps on giving.

[FMW]

Since you're practically living together, the lessened contact throughout the day doesn't seem too unusual to me.  If you see him in the morning and know you'll see him in the evening, no real need to check in during the day unless something is going on you need to discuss.  Just my opinion of course.

Keeping his phone with him would bother me.  Unless he has to be on call for work, or has a family member with serious health issues, the new habit of always having his phone with him is a reasonable thing to question.

But since you brought up the subject and he didn't react well, I might just keep my lips closed and eyes and ears open for a little while and see what happens - whether or not the phone stays glued to his side or if something new pops up.  

Unfortunately you know that cheaters are really good at acting indignant at any question of their behavior, so of course that's making it even harder for you.

Have you ever had any suspicions prior to/other than the change in phone habits?   Especially if this is the first time in your three years together, I wouldn't just dismiss what you're feeling.  Like I mentioned earlier, keep your eyes open.   

Edited November 13, 2020 by FMW

[smackie9]

He's down playing it....an emotional affair is possible, flirtations, etc can be done on a cel phone to a coworker whom he would see at work everyday, to which you should have said to him. Point out the fact that he's taking his phone with him everywhere, even into the bathroom says shady behavior. Even if it's innocent, he should respectfully comply.

[bluemountains]

I agree that taking the phone everywhere feels shady.  I mean, that was one of the red flags that my ex was up to something. 

We had a talk. He said that he just brings it in the bathroom to give him something to read, and nothing at all is going on. I can have his phone any time, etc. Unfortunately, my mind goes to "that means nothing." But since we have had that talk, he has kept his phone plugged in, untouched while home. And he is a lot more attentive. 

While it does make me feel a little better, I hate what my past has done to me. My brain goes... "he could just switch the way he communicates." Maybe it is time to get back into therapy. 

[bluemountains]

Well, it took less than a week, and last night, he came home and brought the phone with him while he showered. Less attentive. Another scheduled "drink with the guys" night is on the books (this is out of the norm). There is a specific person that has always concerned me (and he and I discussed her, and he knows contact with her of any kind will be an end deal for me). While she lives an hour away, she does not work and she has to be in our town 3 days out of the week for a kid practice that she drops off and keeps herself busy during this time. One of those nights just so happens to coincide with the time he has "drink with the guys" night the last two weeks. Though, I have proof that he was at the very least with his friend that he said he was meeting out, it does little to comfort me that he hasn't also seen her. We also used to meet up for lunch, but haven't in ages. And then it was phone calls during that time, but again, that has stopped. I do agree it doesn't mean much because now we see each other daily, it isn't that much of a stretch. But I cannot get rid of this gut feeling. It is in the interactions she and I have had. It is in the seeing weird faces made at each other across the room. It is in some random text that I got from him that did not make much sense in context to our conversation that we were having after having her over to my home just a couple of weeks before. She's married with a child. I have no proof, just little gut feelings. And the feeling that he fights so hard to keep me so that he won't be alone because she spends her evening and weekends with her husband. I cannot discern if this is my fear talking or there is something there and my gut is screaming at me to see it. I feel sick daily now. 

[smackie9]

the only thing I can recommend is to hire a PI, or put a GPS on his vehicle to track his moves. Hopefully it will prove it's all in your head.

[Caauug]

23 hours ago, bluemountains said:

Though, I have proof that he was at the very least with his friend that he said he was meeting out, it does little to comfort me that he hasn't also seen her.

I'm sorry Bluemountains, your BF is likely cheating on you. Even by the slight chance he is not, he might as well be. Guilty by association... You can not trust him, so let him go. Find someone that values you that you can trust.

17 hours ago, smackie9 said:

the only thing I can recommend is to hire a PI, or put a GPS on his vehicle to track his moves. Hopefully it will prove it's all in your head.

Will it always be in her head? or the next time will be real? Maybe not next time but the time after.....

On 11/13/2020 at 6:57 AM, bluemountains said:

I have trust issues, and really I likely should not be involved. But I am, and I love him. My kids love him, and some reason he puts up with me.

Give it up girl, you had a crack and he did not meet your expectations. Set him free and get yourself sorted out. You have your family to care for, they come first. You can not keep living in fear.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. It seems like he is hiding something. Stop immediately "practically living together". Stop playing house this much. You need to change up your routine immediately. This way you can step back and observe.

Be very careful about regurgitated infidelity advice about voice recorders, gps devices, etc. Much of that is illegal in many countries and jurisdictions.

Instead get out of the playing house complacency and start to step back and observe. Right now you are on the defensive, watching his phone habits, shower habits, boys night out habits etc. You need to be proactive and seriously shake thing up. Make HIM wonder what's going on.

[bluemountains]

I have considered breaking it off just because the relationship causes me a lot of anxiety and maybe not even his fault. I hate that we had a conversation last week, and through the weekend, things were amazing. And then all of a sudden, it is back to how it was. And each day... a little more and more gone. 

I guess I'll see how tonight plays out. I did think about what friends were around (i'm in a new city) that would go to the place they are going to tonight, but then I thought that sounded like a crazy lady. He did invite me, but he also knows that I have a lot to do so it is nearly impossible. I do not know his friend to be a cheater, I only get the impression that there is major "bro" code. There was a story before that my BF didn't go home one night after being out with friends (with his ex GF). The ex GF was calling around trying to find him, and this friend said he didn't take her call because he wasn't getting in the middle of it... that he was probably sleeping it off. That is his story (that he was too drunk to drive home, so he slept it off in his car). So that seems quite suspect story... and quite the cover up from the friend. 

I should have seen these red flags and knew that this relationship (even if there is nothing) would make me feel sick. But I ignored instead. 

[bluemountains]

I put things aside for awhile and told myself that if I keep looking and looking and looking but never find anything, then I'm just making myself crazy. For instance, sometimes he would get a text, and just ignore it. This is what my exH would do. He would get a text, and instead of checking immediately, he would not open his phone. For my BF, this would happen, and I would later snoop on his phone, and it would be work or something. Last night, he got a text and he looked for his phone but didnt' check the text. Didn't even look at his phone, just put it face down (I had been out right before and only just came home). This morning I looked at his phone, there is no text. The last one was from hours before. He's also turned off active status on his social media. 

I know in my head what I should do. I just don't know how fair it is. And with so many people involved (kids and family), it makes it really hard. 

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately you don't seem happy. How long can you play peekaboo with his phone and build up resentment and distrust.

This isn't about how "fair" it is to others. 

Sadly it seems a lot of your divorce baggage is seeping into and dominating this. Including dragging kids into this then stating dragging them out of this " is unfair".

[bluemountains]

5 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you don't seem happy. How long can you play peekaboo with his phone and build up resentment and distrust.

This isn't about how "fair" it is to others. 

Sadly it seems a lot of your divorce baggage is seeping into and dominating this. Including dragging kids into this then stating dragging them out of this " is unfair".

Fair meaning... does he deserve my suspicions. There have been many times I have worried about something to turn around and it be nothing. 

I do agree that I have a lot of baggage. I'm just unsure how much is that talking or is there really something there? DId I get so much into detective mode with the ex that I just cannot get out of it?

We have been dating over 3 years, there was no way not to bring the kids into it. I have only gotten worse on my trust issues. I full trusted him at first.ANd I was caught off guard about how much I did. Because I was expecting never to be able to let my guard down again.

[Datergirl]

I don't think you'll get specific answers as to whether each thing that makes you worry is real or imagined. You'll tie yourself up in knots trying to work each thing out. 

You have trust issues as a result of what your ex husband did. You now question everything your new partner is doing and you don't trust him.

He either is cheating or he isn't. Over analysing everything he does is not helping you. It's giving you anxiety. 

Have you spoken to a therapist? What did you do during the year between your ex husband and new partner? 

[bluemountains]

17 hours ago, Datergirl said:

I don't think you'll get specific answers as to whether each thing that makes you worry is real or imagined. You'll tie yourself up in knots trying to work each thing out. 

You have trust issues as a result of what your ex husband did. You now question everything your new partner is doing and you don't trust him.

He either is cheating or he isn't. Over analysing everything he does is not helping you. It's giving you anxiety. 

Have you spoken to a therapist? What did you do during the year between your ex husband and new partner? 

I was in therapy for a long while. While trying to figure out the best path in my marriage, and then for about another year or so after (I was still in therapy when we first started dating). I think it would be good to go back. 

A lot of it is from my past. Some of it is my BF's past. The overanalyzing definitely isn't helping. I think in most cases, I could probably just let be what will be, I think. But with a looming decision on the horizon (to marry or not), I think it is really freaking me out. I don't feel as I can trust him. It's just hard to know if for sure that is because he is shady or I'm just overly paranoid. I love him. Fully. I can't imagine a life without him. But more and more, I keep feeling like marrying would be not wise. If that is the case, I need to let him go now while he is young and can have children (I cannot give him children).

[smackie9]

Maybe you need to communicate to him how you are feeling and maybe suggest couples counseling. You know, do this together.

[Gaeta]

Unfortunately when we leave a relationship with infidelity we often, without being conscious of it, get back into another one. That's what happened to me. The difference was cheating partner number 2 was much smarter at hiding it than partner 1. My first cheating partner was more on the narcissist side, he was not a nice man, we would fight, he'd belittle me, threaten me, etc.  I left and spend a few years single until I met my recent ex. He was completely different than cheating partner 1. He was the perfect boyfriend for 5 years, he always put me on a pedestal, I had daily compliments, he'd move mountains for me and my daughters. At first when I saw the signs I ignored them, like you do, because he was such a good boyfriend, it must be me or some insecurities, right!. Even my adult daughter told me it's impossible he cheats on me the man is too enamoured with me. But the signs were there and the biggest sign was his phone was always on silence and yes he took it in the bathroom with him when he showered and he got one of those phone case with a flip cover so no one could see his notifications.

I've discovered my recent ex was cheating by looking at his phone bill. I had never done that before in my life and honestly I thought I would find nothing or maybe he's chatting with some woman for attention. What I found was earth shattering. He was talking with 6 women, I called 4, and he slept with 3 of them in the month of November only. And yes, he was home for dinner each night. 

My advice is: I know you love him and you will not end this relationship only based on a hunch so my advice is do what it takes to learn the truth. 

 

[poppyfields]

On 11/12/2020 at 2:57 PM, bluemountains said:

Yesterday, I talked to him about his behavior with his phone and basically told me he refuses to discuss this again. 

Because of the drastic change in his behaviour, specifically his phone behaviour, suddenly so protective and secretive, your concerns were valid.  You had every right to want to talk with him about it.  

His response quoted above was not an acceptable response.  He shut you down and no woman should accept that from her partner imo. Ever.  It's just not okay.   Especially under the present circumstances of him suddenly being so secretive and protective of his phone, etc etc.

It also highly suggests he does have something to hide. And most likely is, imo.  

I am engaged to be married and if my fiance shut me down like that after attempting to communicate about something that was troubling me, I wouid be seriously seriously reconsidering marrying him.

And combined with all his other questionable behavior, his defensive posture, etc, I dont think I wouid need solid proof he was cheating, my intuition would be good enough.

To answer your question, is it intuition or fear?  It's both.  Your intuition is screaming at you, and what it's screaming is scary as hell.  

Follow your gut.  Do you even need solid proof?  By doing what, snooping his phone or socials?  

I suppose if his behaviour were not so blatantly obvious, snooping might be okay. 

Perhaps it's even okay here, I don't know.  Whatever you need to do to get to your truth and protect your heart.

I would never resort to that but I am a bit of an anomaly on this forum.  And my intuition and BS meter is very strong.   Always has been, it's a gift and I consider myself fortunate.

So I would just go with my intuition, and consider leaving.  Or just leave.   I could do it, and have.  I'm strong, another gift.  

But that's just me.  You do what you need to do bluemountains, what's best for you.

I'm sorry you are experiencing this and I wish you best of luck.  xo

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by poppyfields

[Fletch Lives]

Sure, he could be having a pen-pal affair, who knows? But you can't kiss over the phone, so it's not serious. Who a person is with is what counts. Talk is cheap - and that's all that happens over the phone. Actions scream. But I understand, the previous may not help much.

It sounds like you have trust issues, understandably so, based on the cheating by your ex.. It might not go away and you probably can't fix it on your own. This needs to be addressed in counseling. This is a  known mental issue and counselors have experience with it. All the tracking software won't fix a mental issue.