Could he be cheating?

[Wiseman2]

50 minutes ago, Stream said:

 

"I had to urgently use your laptop and after using, I discovered your poems folder. It made me curious and excited, because I've always loved your writing. So I started reading them. While reading I came across your poems on my affair and the pain you felt. Then I knew that it was personal like a diary, but I kept reading because it made me understand how badly I hurt you. You never conveyed your pain in such detail when we used to talk about saving the marriage. So to know your real pain, I kept reading it. The more I read the more I realised how strong you were and how lucky I was to have you. 

Then finally I came across your romantic poems. I read them thinking that you had already shared them with me. However, I realised that you were describing some other girl. I immediately felt uncomfortable and threatened. A lot of negative thoughts started appearing on my mind, including thoughts of you leaving me. I know that it's very unfair of me to think this way as you have never given any reason for me to doubt you.. ever. I also gave you the 'hall pass' 5 years back, so I don't have any rights to question you now. 

But.. the thought of you thinking about another woman hurts like hell. So I wanted to ask you.. is there anyone else?

I know that am a hypocrite and I hurt you badly.. but I am also a woman who loves you more than anything and a mom who wants the happiest home for her kids. So I decided  to ask."

Yes, if you want him to file for divorce, finally, send this. It proves several things.  That you do not respect his privacy and randomly violate it. That you are paranoid and jealous.  That you are still willing to lie to his face about "urgent use of laptop " to violate his trust and privacy. That you are willing to candy-coat things to this extreme thereby throwing your entire cheating-contrition story into question.

PLEASE stop reading infidelity sites and get professional therapy for your issues. haven't you hurt him enough yet? It's really unclear why you want to ruin the marriage.

[Mrin]

That text idea is BAD. 

Why dont you just engage him in a good conversation about your relationship. How you hurt him. How he's doing. At some point toss out something like, "five years ago I gave you a hall pass. Have you ever thought about using it? Were you ever tempted?" and see what he says. 

[LynneVicious]

I wish I had these infidelity sites many years ago during my marriage when my ex husband was cheating. I went the marriage counseling route and saw several, none of which helped. Many people though, find help from IC for why they cheated and help for the betrayed to cope with the betrayal. 
 

There is loads of information on these sites which can empower you with knowledge, which I encourage you to obtain. In your case, however, the situation is unique because you are a former ww, and you’re probably applying what you did during your affair to him, whether it’s true or not. 
 

I think it best to have a open and honest conversation with your husband. Not texting, not letters. He deserves that. 

[Pottering About]

I think Marin is offering good advice and that Wiseman2 makes a good point. 
 

This is a very difficult situation. Do you keep it all to yourself and suck up the pain caused by not knowing or do you risk opening the can of worms that is your husband’s emotions?  If you do take Marin’s advice, it could go one of three ways:; he is reluctant to discuss his feelings and shuts you down by telling you everything is fine; he opens up to reveal ongoing problems with your marriage; or he genuinely tells you everything is alright and he is happy. Have you planned how you will deal with the range of responses he may give you?
 

Good luck, whichever way you go.

[usa1ah]

If your husband cheats on you it isn’t as bad as your cheating. You broke the marriage when YOU decided to f’k someone else. That was your choice, not his. 
 

Your marriage is still a broken marriage. You will never get back  what the two of you had before you spread your legs for someone else. It doesn’t matter how hard you work at it, the special part of your relationship is gone forever. It was gone the moment YOU decide to introduce someone else into the marriage. 
 

maybe he is writing for a fictional woman that he wishes was his wife instead of you. The woman he thought you were. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by usa1ah

[usa1ah]

Also he would not be cheating on you with you giving him a hall pass. Unless you told him afterwards he can not use it. 

[Stream]

Thank you all for you great advice! I can feel that some of you must have been badly hurt by someone's betrayal and I know that your pain can reflect on your words. But I also know that all of you are good people who are trying to help a stranger in crisis, and I am very thankful for all your replies. 

Wiseman2

Ok, I think you are right. I'll quit the text idea. But I still think these sites help me. I know that people give good and bad ideas, and I know that there are toxic people there. But at the end of the day, I am the one who's gonna decide which advice to take and which not to. The replies I've got so far have made me do a lot thinking.

Also I don't wanna hurt him, I just want to save my marriage.

Mrin

I feel like this is the best option for us. I'll do this as soon as possible.

LynneVicious

I am sorry you had to go through all that. 

As you say, the sites have loads of useful information in the form of advice and experience. 

Yes, I'll have a honest face to face conversation.

Pottering About

I'll follow Mrin's advice.

If he chooses option 1, then I won't push him, but will let him know that I am available if he ever wants to talk to me. I'll also tell him how much I love him and how much our marriage is important for me.

If he chooses option 2, then I'll listen to him and try to find a fix. I'll try to get the families involved or may be a counselor (if he feels comfortable).

Option 3.. I'll trust him but always try to verify. At least until I am confident that everything is ok.

Thank you!

usa1ah

I know that my actions had polluted the marriage and probably polluted his innocence. I take full responsibility. I know what you mean and I agree. We won't ever be able to go back to what we had. Trust me, I get your point.

But we can try! We can try to get to somewhere close to what we had. May be it will lead to a new branch and become even better. We never know. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by Stream

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, Stream said:

But we can try! We can try to get to somewhere close to what we had. May be it will lead to a new branch and become even better. We never know. 

I would not recommend this to anyone. Neither one of you are the same person now. I have always told a betrayed spouse to divorce and heal. Then if the BS choses too, start dating the WS again and build a new relationship from there. 
 

Your old relationship is over, a new one needs to start from here. 
 

As far as him writing again, it might just be therapeutic for him. You have no proof of an affair on his end do you?

 

With this said, your husband for better or worse has given you another chance. I hope that the two of you do move on from this better off. It just hardly ever happens that way. 

[Wiseman2]

13 hours ago, Stream said:

,. I know that people give good and bad ideas, and I know that there are toxic people there. But at the end of the day, I am the one who's gonna decide which advice to take and which not to. 

And this is why personal therapy with a licensed qualified therapist is your best bet to heal yourself and your marriage.

You will get specific trained neutral supportive guidance, without the wear and tear of being stoned to death by random angry people harping on the past and unleashing thier personal wrath on to you.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Stream]

So as Mrin suggested, I had a serious talk with him.

It didn't actually go well. 😕

He said that he's been talking to someone and that the poems were for her. She's from a far away city so he hasn't met her yet. They are planning to meet when she moves here in a few weeks. He said he didn't want me to find out or hurt me. Anyway, I was shattered.

He said he wanted to punish me without my knowledge, and may be try to balance the relationship by having an affair if his own.

Even though deep down I knew that this would be his reply, I realised that I wasn't prepared to handle it.

We were both hurt, upset and angry. So we decided to continue the talk later

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Stream

[LynneVicious]

Oh boy. Sorry to hear about the update. At this point, it’s probably best to either divorce so you can both start fresh or work on true reconciliation ONLY IF both of you are committed to it. Since he doesn’t seem committed to reconciliation, it’s only going to snowball from here. 
 

In his mind, he may be able to ‘even the score’, but at what cost to your marriage? It sounds like he’s never forgiven you and is harboring resent meant this whole time. Is there a reason why you two won’t consider a divorce at this point?

[elaine567]

I don't believe men do very well in relationships where the wife cheats.
I think getting revenge, or evening the score somehow, is common.
Men are competitive and hate to lose. A loyal wife is a huge bonus to a man, a cheating wife is useless.

Hall pass or no hall pass this was kind of expected to occur sometime.
In 5 years he has got over you and is now looking for a "proper" wife.
I think offering a hall pass was a big mistake not necessarily because he would use it but by offering it, you showed him you did not care if he slept with other women. what kind of a love is that?
A monogamous person does NOT want to sleep with other people, does NOT want her man sleeping with other women either.
You offered him a "treat" to mend his broken heart and to let you off the hook... I guess it did not go down too well...

[schlumpy]

Before you do anything, ask for verification. Look at her FB page and messages between them. Make sure this is real and not some game he is playing.

If it is real, then I have to say I don't understand why he has wasted the last five years when he could have divorced and run to Curly girl free and clear. He wasted your life too and maybe that's part of the revenge.

I understand you are feeling guilty and maybe feel responsible to a reasonable extent to where you are now. Affairs belong solely to the people who initiate them. His intent to initiate this one is on him. He didn't have to stay. He could have walked away and by now both of you might be making your way through new relationships safe from the emotional crud that lingers after a divorce.

You could eat crow and look the other way hoping that this will finally end the animosity, but will it? I think it won't be enough for him. Revenge is always less satisfying then what you imagine it to be. 

I think you have to go on offense and insist that he drop this plan. Point out to him that he had his chance five years ago and chose not to leave and since then you have worked very hard on the marriage. Ask him if he can say the same? Or was his contribution just to hang around?

Offer counseling and working on the marriage. Individual counseling for him first as MC will not be effective while he is in contact with his "friend." If not that, then file for divorce. It's your only leverage to put an end to this.

I don't hear him saying he doesn't love you. I just hear "revenge" or "even the score." Five years is a long time to take to grow a backbone.

I just can't see you trying to drag him along into the future when it's obvious he wants to stay in the past and play the victim card.

His chance to rectify that wrong to himself was five years ago.

At that time, he decided otherwise.

[Pottering About]

So very sorry to hear your news but at least it is out in the open. I do think that is not the time for instant decisions on divorce or reconciliation. I do think you need to take a short period to let yourself grieve. Your willingness to fight for your marriage and demonstration of love and loyalty over the past 5 years is going to be tested now and, IMO, you will probably need to do the same now if you want to save your marriage.
 

Even though you are now the betrayed spouse, your husband is testing you and not the other way round. Blame and recrimination on your part may be counterproductive as he can point to your affair. I would also drop any mention of hall passes, let him bring that up and decide how you want to respond.

 

The questions that sprang to mind (and many of these will take a long time to answer) when I read your posts were:

Husband’s Motive:

Does he actually intend to develop this into a physical affair?

Are his actions designed to hurt you and even up the score or are they designed to, ultimately, enable him to move on to a new relationship without you?

Now that his intentions have been discovered and he can see your pain, will this be enough to have evened the score?

 

Your Reactions:

Now this is real, will you still want to work on and save your marriage?

Are you going to fight before they meet and/or start any affair or are you going to let it take its course so he “gets it out of his system”?

What coping systems do you need to put in place if you decide to “let him have his fling”?

What do you need to do if your husband says he wants out of the marriage?
 

What can you do to stay informed about what is going on and what his thoughts are? What are you going to do and say to achieve your desired outcomes?

There will be times when you suffer despair, anger and uncertainty. What support network do you have or need to build up?

I am sure there are going to be other questions and answers will change/develop as matters progress. 
 

Look, I am not an expert by any means, nor will I tell you what to do. A good proportion of my working life was spent problem solving, often in an HR environment, and this was achieved by asking questions which enabled concerned parties to develop their own answers/solutions. Others may provide instant solutions, some of which will have value. Some may be haters and you need to work out how to stop them bringing you down. Others may also, hopefully, proffer further questions that help you. I offer the above for you to do with as you will but it is going to be a long hard road ahead and I wish you both the very best of luck. 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Pottering About
Update

[mark clemson]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:14 PM, Stream said:

 I also know that all of you are good people who are trying to help a stranger in crisis

Certainly much of the advice is helpful (and what is not can be discarded) but in actuality you have no idea whether that is true.

Do yourself a favor and be sure to sanity-check any/all advice you receive off the internet. Speaking generally, people could be mentally ill, cult members, or simply out to hurt others for fun, among many other possibilities. You really never know. It's important to recognize that.

Edited November 16, 2020 by mark clemson

[Wiseman2]

15 hours ago, Stream said:

He said that he's been talking to someone and that the poems were for her. She's from a far away city so he hasn't met her yet. They are planning to meet when she moves here in a few weeks. 

Your marriage is in peril. Why? Because of the DIY approach and sweeping issues under the rug.

Did he tell you all this or did you somehow come across more phone/laptop data?

It's interesting that you sensed things were off and this started your snooping. Sadly things have been  troubled in your marriage for a long long time that "elders" and infidelity sites obviously never fixed.

 

[Stream]

Thank you for all your replies. I haven't read them
  yet. Before that, wanted to give an update. This is long, sorry about that. 

So.. we talked again and I've made the situation worse I think. I am not sure where the marriage stands right now.

The cause for my husband's sudden anger, need to punish me and get even.. was his discovery of OM's identity. Apparently it has opened up his wounds. 

I lied about OM and hid his identity because, my  husband already knew OM and about his character, and he warned me. Husband and OM were from the same locality. It seems OM was a notorious jerk and player who preyed on women going through a bad phase. I however didn't take the warning seriously because, I was very confident of my character and moral beliefs. Also, I considered my self too stupid to cheat, and hurt myself and loved ones. I went to the same gym as OM. He was a good looking sweet talker. At a very low point in my life, I became his victim. (Not excusing myself)

Later, from my behavioural changes and  some  text messages, my husband figured out that I was cheating. When he asked about the OM, I lied. Apart from my two closest friends, no one else knew his true identity. I lied because, I didn't want our situation to worsen, Also OM moved to a different city, so since he was no longer in the  picture, I didn't think it was necessary to reveal his identity.

My husband has come to know of OM via a common friend. Regardless of promising to keep the affair discreet, seems OM has been bragging about his record with married women. My husband told me that it devastated him to know that I cheated with the same guy he warned me about. 

He said, the new information had wounded him terribly, which I can understand. He thinks the only way for him to heal himself and recover any respect left, was by having his own affair.

I told him that a revenge affair wasn't gonna help the marriage. I told him that it wil lead to more pain. I invited him to go to marriage counseling,  told him that we can change counselors, until he finds one, he is comfortable with. I tried my best to talk him out of his madness, but he was being very adamant. I knew that he was acting out in pain, but I got mad too. At one point he thanked me for the hall pass and said his affair will officially commence in a few weeks. He said that he's found the right girl for him and attempted to show her picture.. and I lost my temper there!!

I told him some very hurtful things and he left. He hasn't come yet. I am waiting for him. I wish i hadn't lost my temper earlier.

[Wiseman2]

25 minutes ago, Stream said:

  I became his victim. 

You're not a victim. You're only a victim of your own lies to yourself. Your husband doesn't need marriage therapy. He's not a pathological liar.

You have 3 choices. Get divorced, open your marriage or take a taste of your own medicine and stick around with a cheater.

Why did you stay married in the first place? Is this a forced or arranged marriage or you can't afford divorce or support yourself.

Your disrespect and contempt for your husband is rather astounding.

It's now clear why you frequented infidelity sites. You were looking for tips to make yourself look like a contrite victim, all the while still lying.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Stream]

Wiseman2

I might have been disrespectful when I had the affair but not now.

It's a love marriage. 

If I had to choose one options, I'd choose the last. But until things get there, I'd try my best to remove the new lady from the equation.

I didn't say that I was forced into the affair. I was at slow point in life and he took advantage of me. I am not blaming him solely. It's my fault as well.

[Stream]

Pottering About

He said the affair will commence in a few weeks when she arrives here. I couldn't tell if he was serious or bluffing.

Before the last conversation I believed that he only wanted to hurt me, but after the conversation, I am no longer sure if all he wants is just to hurt me.

I hope all he want was just to make me feel the same pain and nothing more. If that's what he wanted, then he's already succeeded.

...

Yes, I will try my best to save the relationship.

I am gonna fight and try my best to stop it. I know I am being a hypocrite. Can't help it, I am just humans too. Even the thought of him with another lady makes me vomit. I've learnt my lesson. I wish I could take back the hurt I caused him five years back.

I don't know how I'd be able to cope. I didn't think of anything when I gave him the hall pass. I haven't thought of this yet 😕

If he wants out.. I don't know. I can force him to stay or make his possible exit extremely costly for him financially and emotionally.  I already have the support of our families and close friends. They know how much genuine I was in reconciliation.

But I don't want him to stay unless he wants to.  I really hope he wants to stay. Because in the past five years, I've not given a single reason for him to doubt my love or commitment to him. I hope he isn't gonna punish me again for something I did give years back.

Also he and kids are inseparable and I don't think he will be willing to be a part time dad. 

The families and close friends are the support network. I am also planning to get counseling.

Thank you very much Pottering About

Your replies are helping me a lot! I really appreciate your help. 

I honestly consider you to be an expert. Thank you again.

 

[elaine567]

52 minutes ago, Stream said:

The cause for my husband's sudden anger, need to punish me and get even.. was his discovery of OM's identity. Apparently it has opened up his wounds. 

I guess they were never closed.
They are now being used as an excuse for him to find some "strange" of his own.
I am  not sure why you want to hold onto a man who is so obviously now on a path to find happiness elsewhere.
Let him go.
He has been in hell for years and now you want him and yourself to go through even more hell.
Your marriage is not built on "love", it is a sham.

Edited November 17, 2020 by elaine567
typo

[Stream]

elaine567

I honestly don't believe that he wants to find someone new. If that were the case, why would he wait for five years? Part of me still believes that he was bluffing.

I strongly believe that he still loves me. If not, I'd let him go. Unless he asks me for s divorce, I don't think I can let him go 

 

 

 

 

[elaine567]

If he was bluffing, why is he writing love poems about her?
It takes about 3-5 years to get over a cheating event.
Seems like he came out the other end looking not to properly reconcile, but looking for someone new. 
 

[Stream]

schlumpy

Thank you, these are exactly my thoughts. 

I strongly believe that he loves me.

Now he revealed the reason for his sudden anger. It was again a decision I made five years back to save our marriage. Had I been any wiser, I would have decided differently. To be honest with you, I don't blame him for being mad. He is in a lot of pain. My stupidity has opened up his wounds. But I'll do anything to help him heal.

I am still not sure if he's telling the truth or bluffing about the new lady. Most of me still believe that it's a bluff. Because... I know for a fact that he is a very emotional person. He cannot be physical with anyone unless he has a strong emotional connection. When we were dating, it took a long time (months) for him to come to the emotional state where he could go physical. So I don't think he can simply jump into bed with a lady he probably knows for a few months. He's also very introverted which doesn't help. 

I had a similar conversation with him as you have suggested. But unfortunately, I became emotional and did something hurtful. I should have practised more patience. Anyway hopefully he'll be back and from there we'll continue conversation. 

[Stream]

elaine567

I am not saying the healed completely, bit things were going great for us, until he learnt about OM's identify, which probably made me look like I was hiding facts for ulterior motives. I hid OM's identify for us to be able to heal faster. I did a huge mistake there.