I'm not enough because I don't have money

[Poppet109876]

12 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I'm just using basic logic to analyze the situation based on the information provided.

One of the more telling facts that you have posted is that he does not consider a well written prenuptial agreement a viable secure instrument to protect his long term assets nor protection from possible alimony payments. 

If you do not live together, he will be forced to pay child support for the two children, period. That is not open to negotiation.  I don't know what the law states in your jurisdiction, but it is usually a formula and he will be forced to pay X amount monthly.

Yes in the uk any side of the relationship that has legal custody of the child/children the other side would have to pay support for the children only.  As of X amount depending on how many days/nights the other side has them for. 
 I’m very thankful that I have spent an amazing amount of time with the children. Hopefully this will push his hand to spend more time with them and noticed all the things he has missed out on and hopefully make up for it going forward 

[Ellener]

8 hours ago, Poppet109876 said:

he now decided he doesn’t want to share his savings or pension with me if we got divorced.

Are you sure you see a future with this er person? 

If you leave him he'll need to pay you 16% of his gross income in child maintenance in the UK.

[basil67]

16 minutes ago, Ellener said:

If you leave him he'll need to pay you 16% of his gross income in child maintenance in the UK.

If he's named on the birth certificate, he's probably paying it already.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. Legally and financially you are a single parent.

That means you have to count on your own earnings and savings. 

Make sure he is paying for the children and you are compensated for your work at home.

That means take care of yourself and your children only. You also need to go to social services to see what benefits a single parent can get.

Unfortunately he doesn't want to marry. That's ok but he still has to support his kids. If you are not remunerated for household work, don't do it. 

It's best not to count on him emotionally, financially or in other ways. He's not that committed to the relationship.

Watch out for yourself and your children. If living together becomes untenable, you can move out be free and he can pay the  children's child support.

It's important not to allow this engagement thing to become a carrot and stick situation to keep you acting like a spouse, without the benefits of equal partnership.

Take the engagement off the table and proceed with taking care of yourself and your children only.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Chilli]

Dunno op , the threads only 18hrs old but you've gone from some complaints about your fiance your living with and have children with , sadly to sounding like you've already broken up.

First thing ha how disheartening it is these days. lnstead of thinking about what's suppose to be the beautiful thing of sharing life together, people aren't even married yet and they're thinking about the divorce- Jezuz the worlds fkd up.  Thing is though you said he'd only have to pay child support anyway well they're his children too and he'd be looking after them now and nomatter what to adult anyway . l mean if he's talked to your mum through the yr about getting married,   maybe now that he's got the flat ,mates have gotten into his ear about protecting assets stuff and so his suddenly all worried about what ifs . Well , men have been getting totally screwed in divorces for yrs so in a way can't blame him but maybe that's all it is. Surely something could cover that legally if that's all his worried about.

Anyway , you've been together yrs and have two beautiful kids together and were gonna get married . First step would be spending a few more mths trying to work this out. Surely you guys don't want your kids growing up in a broken family, it's well worth a shot.

.

 

 

 

 

[LeoLady888]

Poppet,

 

Quote

Financially I can provide for myself and our boys. 

Then I suggest you do just that after you have kicked his sorry a*** into touch.

After all these years marriage isn't on his mind.

If that's what you want it ain't going to happen.

I'm sorry x

[Ruby Slippers]

5 hours ago, Chilli said:

Surely you guys don't want your kids growing up in a broken family

He's the one who "broke" the family by refusing to be the financial safety net for the mother of his children. An honorable man would step up and provide for his family in every way, make them all feel safe and secure. He's leaving her hanging, which creates a stressful, insecure situation.

As I said before, I'd make it my top priority to establish a decent career so I could provide for the kids and myself in retirement. He's made it clear he can't be relied on to do it. Probably once she gets better established financially, she'll leave this guy and find a more upstanding man to enjoy the rest of her life with.

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

...and find a more upstanding man to enjoy the rest of her life with.

I think that is easier said, then done.  I really don't think there are a lot of guys that want an instant family. Possibly a guy that wants a blended family?

A wife and two kids is quite a brood...  Not a lot of guys will want to raise another man's seed.

That was deal breaker #1 on my list, if she had children... I'm out, gone and done. 

[Ruby Slippers]

There are plenty of single dads out there, surely some with better values than this guy. 

[Happy Lemming]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

There are plenty of single dads out there, surely some with better values than this guy. 

Yes... bitter, financially destroyed single dads.  They may have better values, but I doubt they are all that happy and well adjusted.

The more I think about it.. if the OP's current "baby daddy" is working and providing, then that may be as good as it gets.  She may have to give up on the dream of being married and having that security. 

""Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know" - R. Taverner

[Ruby Slippers]

In any case, she'd be wise to start developing her own career and financial stability. I imagine once she gets stronger financially, she might be ready and able to move on from this guy. In my book, if you can support yourself and be self-sufficient, it's better to be alone than be with someone who's taking you for granted and making you feel insecure and unloved like this. Her own financial wherewithal is the key to greater freedom and happiness.

[Happy Lemming]

10 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

...she'd be wise to start developing her own career and financial stability.

100% Agree with you on this. 

[Chilli]

3 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

He's the one who "broke" the family by refusing to be the financial safety net for the mother of his children. An honorable man would step up and provide for his family in every way, make them all feel safe and secure. He's leaving her hanging, which creates a stressful, insecure situation.

As I said before, I'd make it my top priority to establish a decent career so I could provide for the kids and myself in retirement. He's made it clear he can't be relied on to do it. Probably once she gets better established financially, she'll leave this guy and find a more upstanding man to enjoy the rest of her life with.

 

Of course , but it didn't sound like it's about that , well , lets bloody hope not. You didn't get what l was saying.

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Chilli

[gamon]

On 11/15/2020 at 4:28 PM, Happy Lemming said:

They have to be prepared correctly and each party needs their own attorney, but if he has his mind set that he will never marry, then my point is moot.

There''s a lot more to it than just that. Prenups are overturned quite frequently even if both parties have their own council. The term "prepared correctly" is subject to a good amount of interpretation and 10 judges could look at it and come up with 10 different decisions.

Besides a marriage with a prenup isn't really a marriage at all.

 

 

[Happy Lemming]

1 hour ago, gamon said:

There''s a lot more to it than just that.

 

This woman is in the UK and I'm not the least bit familiar with how the United Kingdom works. I'll defer to someone more knowledgeable about UK law and its interpretations.

As previously stated the point is moot anyway, as he would not sign one. 

[clia]

On 11/15/2020 at 4:42 PM, Poppet109876 said:

 I have a lovely career in special needs and education, luckily throughout my 12 years I have been able to take each child to work with me. But unfortunately our youngest is too young for school so I still have to do school pick ups. Financially I can provide for myself and our boys. 

Why are you the one who has to do school pickups?  Can't he help?

Edited November 17, 2020 by clia

[Wiseman2]

On 11/15/2020 at 12:50 PM, Poppet109876 said:

Hello, I have been with my partner for 11 years and have known him for 14 years we have two beautiful children

we planned to go and look for an engagement ring.

Unfortunately, you need a lawyer, not a jeweler. You need to find out what your rights are as an 11year live-in GF and what your children's rights are. Try not to romanticize what is really a legal matter of whether you are common law or not and what you can do for yourself and your children with regard to social services and better financial security.. 

[Caauug]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:50 AM, Poppet109876 said:

 We have recently moved into a flat that my partner has a mortgage for, as we gave up the council flat to be with him and our children

He owns and has the mortgage for the flat. Do you also help with those payments? Or does he pay all of mortgage? How about the utilities like power, gas and water? Does he also pay for these?

On 11/16/2020 at 4:52 AM, Poppet109876 said:

I was stupid and got bad credit when younger.

And

On 11/16/2020 at 1:50 AM, Poppet109876 said:

The day before my partner made a silly fight about my tattoos (he not a big fan of them).

And

On 11/16/2020 at 1:50 AM, Poppet109876 said:

Unfortunately I do not have the same savings as I have a part time job and do all school runs so I don’t earn as much as him, 
I’m really struggling with the thought of am I not enough because I don’t have savings.

Your BF knows you can not manage money. You blow everything you make, if you have extra left over you waste it on tattoos. 

You want marriage and to combine finances? What would happen then?

Your BF knows he can not work for ever, if he is in a high physically demanding job now he is likely starting to feel it. He is only protecting himself, his children and you from financial ruin.

Has he ever let you go hungry, without cloths to keep you warm or boots to keep your feet dry? Has he ever refused to buy anything that you really needed? (Needed, not wanted, there is a difference)

On 11/16/2020 at 7:28 AM, Poppet109876 said:

he needs to think do I love her or do I love the money

I think he does love you, and he is showing it by protecting you from his savings. He knows you and the kids will need money to live if anything happens to him. It's not love for money, it's love for you and the kids....

On 11/16/2020 at 5:33 AM, Poppet109876 said:

It’s hard giving up on a relationship when you have children together and we are otherwise happy. The commitment would be the i wing on the cake. It’s just horrible I’ve given up everything so that he can do what he wanted to do.

Why do you have to give up on the relationship? You have lived together for 9 years, what has changed to make you give up on the relationship? Commitment? 9yrs together shows commitment. "You given up everything" so he can save and provide for you and your kids in the future.... 

You can leave now, demand your share and get child support. He will likely still be divorce raped by the system even though you are not married. He will save the rings and marriage costs, you will get your share, or more.... Or you can stick by him like you have the last 9 years.... In time you should see that savings... The chances of him kicking the bucket before you are high. Then you would have all of what is left. Money can only be spent once. For most people there is not an endless supply. You only have a limited time in your life to make success, use that time wisely.

 

When I first had a read of this thread I sided with many of the other posters, thinking you were the victim and your BF was the bad man..... I now see your BF as the smart one, he's the one that is looking after his family, he is the one preparing for the future. Maybe he is going about it wrong? I can't say, I know very little about UK family law.

[elaine567]

On 11/15/2020 at 9:46 PM, d0nnivain said:

You got him to do the big snip but he balks at marriage?  What an odd duck he sounds like

That is because she was pushing against an open door.
He doesn't want more kids, not with the OP not with anyone, so a vasectomy is a no brainer.
No more kids, no more expense. 

[Poppet109876]

7 hours ago, Caauug said:

He owns and has the mortgage for the flat. Do you also help with those payments? Or does he pay all of mortgage? How about the utilities like power, gas and water? Does he also pay for these?

And

And

Your BF knows you can not manage money. You blow everything you make, if you have extra left over you waste it on tattoos. 

You want marriage and to combine finances? What would happen then?

Your BF knows he can not work for ever, if he is in a high physically demanding job now he is likely starting to feel it. He is only protecting himself, his children and you from financial ruin.

Has he ever let you go hungry, without cloths to keep you warm or boots to keep your feet dry? Has he ever refused to buy anything that you really needed? (Needed, not wanted, there is a difference)

I think he does love you, and he is showing it by protecting you from his savings. He knows you and the kids will need money to live if anything happens to him. It's not love for money, it's love for you and the kids....

Why do you have to give up on the relationship? You have lived together for 9 years, what has changed to make you give up on the relationship? Commitment? 9yrs together shows commitment. "You given up everything" so he can save and provide for you and your kids in the future.... 

You can leave now, demand your share and get child support. He will likely still be divorce raped by the system even though you are not married. He will save the rings and marriage costs, you will get your share, or more.... Or you can stick by him like you have the last 9 years.... In time you should see that savings... The chances of him kicking the bucket before you are high. Then you would have all of what is left. Money can only be spent once. For most people there is not an endless supply. You only have a limited time in your life to make success, use that time wisely.

 

When I first had a read of this thread I sided with many of the other posters, thinking you were the victim and your BF was the bad man..... I now see your BF as the smart one, he's the one that is looking after his family, he is the one preparing for the future. Maybe he is going about it wrong? I can't say, I know very little about UK family law.

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me. I see he you think that I’m just out for the money and bitter for him not wanting to get married to me . 
I pay for water,gas,food and eclectic he pays the mortgage and ground rent and council tax. I also pay for anything the children need (not want) on a day to day basic  And he will pay for school uniform when needed.
 

The only time I have ever had to ask him for money was for 6 months before our second son started nursery because my maternity ended but wasn’t in a situation to pay for any nursery yet and it was hell asking him for money for petrol or money to buy food- deciding if the £5 pounds he gave me goes on petrol to get our oldest from school or lunch my our youngest (had to ask for more). He currently earns 3x as much as me.  We share and pay the same for each child birthdays and other then that our money is very separate. 
 

Yes I wasn’t very good with money when I was a teenager but I have grown up a lot and also how my own savings that I put into regularly, as for tattoos I have 7. With no interest on getting anymore. 4 that I got before I met him, my two children’s name and a heart that he paid for.  
 

for me it’s more personal, I will never have the same surname as my children, I will never have a chance to try on a wedding dress.  I will never get to see my dads face as he walks me down the isle  unless it’s not with him that I dont want . 

Multiple times over the last year he has gone out of his way to convince me he was going to propose 

 

•asking for my ring size

• telling my mum he was going to ask my dad for his permission 

• point out and asking me what rings I like 

• telling me he has saved up for a ring 

•always talking about “when we get married”

 

so yes to say I’m heartbroken is and understatement, he works hard exactly how I have to.

 

 He has cheated in the past and we have overcome that but it has made me feel never enough and I would like something even ifs it’s a £1 ring off ebay that show a commitment 

 

[Poppet109876]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

That is because she was pushing against an open door.
He doesn't want more kids, not with the OP not with anyone, so a vasectomy is a no brainer.
No more kids, no more expense. 

It was me asking for the snip. As I didn’t want to be on the pill anymore (personal reason). And he didn’t want to wear condoms  so the snip fitted both of us 

[elaine567]

12 minutes ago, Poppet109876 said:

It was me asking for the snip. As I didn’t want to be on the pill anymore (personal reason). And he didn’t want to wear condoms  so the snip fitted both of us 

Hence why I said you were pushing against an open door.
He wanted the snip as much as you did, so it cannot be seen as something he did just to please you or something he did to make your life better,
He did it as much for himself as anything else.
In fact had it not suited him, he probably would not have done it.
It doesn't suit HIM to get married hence why he is stalling, else he would likely have asked you to marry him long ago..

You are in a very dodgy position.
Common law in the UK means little. 
You do not have the same protections a marriage gives you. Fighting for you and your children's rights may be costly and not guaranteed you would win. He essentially owns your home, his name is on the title deeds and he pays the mortgage. You are nowhere.
Consult a lawyer.

[Libby1]

On 11/15/2020 at 5:50 PM, Poppet109876 said:

Turns out this was a ploy to make us not go because he now decided he doesn’t want to share his savings or pension with me if we got divorced.
 

If you married and then got divorced a couple of years down the line, you'd only be entitled to half of the portion of savings/pension that had accrued during the marriage.  The portion of the pension you'd get would be insignificant in a short term marriage, and given that keeping his money to himself is a priority to him the likelihood is that he'd squirrel savings away somewhere you couldn't find them.  

As far as your rights if you were to split up go...England is a bit behind Scotland at the moment, with regard to cohabitee rights.  In Scotland, there's a window of opportunity (a year) following a break up where you can apply for financial provision....though it's not equal to the sort of provision you'd get if you were married.    England doesn' t make provision for cohabitees at the moment.  There's a Cohabitation Rights Bill going through Parliament just now.  It's yet to get a hearing in the House of Lords, and apparently there's a fair bit of opposition to it.  Which seems pretty crappy, as it isn't exactly asking for much...just a bit of protection for people in the situation you're in.  

Quote

I have suggest that (prenup), his reply was they can’t always been enforced. 

They're not legally binding, but courts tend to be reluctant to overturn agreements formed between consenting adults who have capacity to enter into a contract.  Factors that would increase the likelihood of a court ignoring the terms of a prenup would include lack of opportunity to seek legal advice (which is why solicitors will always include "you should seek independent legal advice" in their covering letter - and the agreement itself will include a clause to say both parties have had the opportunity to seek legal advice), lack of equal bargaining power when the contract was made (which I suspect would be a reality in your particular case) and manifest unfairness.  

The primary aim of prenup is to make things simpler and more straightforward for everybody in the event of a divorce, and to prevent endless, expensive and stressful wrangling over the drafting of a separation agreement.  If somebody gets a prenup drafted with a view to preventing their future partner from getting their legal entitlement post divorce, it's almost certainly going to be overturned if the whole thing ends up in court...and the law will never permit them to contract out of their child support obligations.

Your partner doesn't sound like a partner at all.  He sounds totally out for himself.  If you got married and it failed after a few years, you wouldn't get much anyway.  If he were willing to enter into a reasonable and fair prenup, there wouldn't be a question of it failing to stand up in court - because there would be no point in you challenging it in the first place.  The very fact that he's talking about prenups not being enforceable suggests to me that he'd only be willing to enter into one that provided you with even less than the small amount you'd end up getting if you got married and then divorced a couple of years down the line.  You still wouldn't be adequately compensated for all the years you've already given this man.  I'd seriously rethink what sort of a future you have with such a selfish individual.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Libby1

[Fair]

He really doesn't seem like much of man. Unfaithful and ungrateful and unloving.

[Whodatdog]

It seems more and more men have no interest in marriage anymore. In a way, who could blame them? Women will bear their kids, live with them, cook and clean for them...all without the benefit of marriage. If Ive read one thread, Ive read a thousand where a woman was waiting for years for a marriage proposal, after having kids and living with a man for years. It would be the same story, Im waiting for the right time to propose, Ill be ready next year, excuse, excuse. But the truth is, why would he get married? What incentive is there for him? Its a sad fact, but true. After 11 years, the odds of him marrying you are slim, Im afraid.