HadMeOverABarrel Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, Alexa007 said: No, no, no- not at all. Ok, glad to hear this. Still good for other OW who might read your thread and subscribe to this fallacy. 12 minutes ago, Alexa007 said: I almost feel guilty for suddenly changing our dynamics, even though I know I'm doing the right thing Yeah, but don't feel guilty. Like I said, neither of you are committed to the other. If he's sincere about having that type of commitment, he will demonstrate it in his actions, which he has not done. 14 minutes ago, Alexa007 said: I *am* taking a moment to mull over your other response. It's definitely making me examine myself! Glad I got ya thinking. I hope it leads to some valuable information about yourself. 💜 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HadMeOverABarrel Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 3 minutes ago, Alexa007 said: HadMe, so much insight! I'd love to know more where your perspective comes from (former OW or BS?). I explained a bit above but we are not able to be separate at work. We are often in remote locations, just the two of us. I think you might be on to something about subconsciously wanting the upper-hand or some control. Spending a year as the OW has damaged me in ways I didn't think possible but all the "highs" kept me straggling along. It feels wonderful to finally say "no more" but it's obviously not a clean break. This is my second time ending things and I'm far more resolved this time. None of this is ideal. I'm definitely giving you the OW perspective. Consider that your brain has literally rewired itself while you've been in the affair. The longer you're in it, the more ingrained those neurological pathways become. It will take time to rewire. Just keep reminding yourself of that anytime you're tempted to start up again with him. You need a strategy to put as much distance between each of you as possible to allow your brain to transition back. Disclosure: I'm not a medical expert, but I sure learned a lot from the emotional whippings I got as an OW and my recovery from them in therapy. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Alexa007 said: 1) We were both married when the A started (I've since gotten separated- a move done for myself that had nothing to do with MM). How do I articulate that, even though I was once okay with the set up, I'm not anymore? You say exactly that, you were once ok with the situation but you have changed your mind. You have decided you want more than he can offer... Quote 2) He says it's hard on him too since he hates being at home. He is so hard done by... poor guy. I have little sympathy for the man, if he hates being at home with his wife, he always has the option to leave and file for divorce. Quote 3). Basically, he's saying that it's unfair that I'm suddenly not okay with the situation. Tough luck. Here’s the thing with relationships - people are allowed to change their mind, at any time. And - once one partner has decided to end the relationship, there is not a damn thing the other person can do but wish them well and find a different path. Seriously, people change their minds every single day - breakups happen when people are dating, at the alter, when they are married... the divorce rate is booming for people who have been married for 40-50 years and one spouse has decided - they have changed their mind... they want something else for their lives. The fact that you have slept with the man or told him that you love him does not entitle him to anything. And, he really shouldn’t be trying to guilt you and emotionally manipulate you to stay in an affair with him. He is a big boy, he needs to deal with his own problems. He can either deal with it or he can find another OW - YOU want more for yourself than a weak, conflict avoidant, user who promises you everything and delivers you nothing... Quote It would be different if this were the last time we'd be seeing each other but our lives are forever intertwined. Good luck with that. It’s not going to be easy to establish a healthy boundary where there has previously been none. I say, avoid him as much as possible... only contact is whatever is required for work, always in the presence of others. That’s what I would be telling him - leave me alone. Edited January 3, 2021 by BaileyB 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Alexa007 said: We are often in remote locations, just the two of us. That’s not going to work, and you know it. Is it possible for an alcoholic or a drug addict to abstain but still continue to surround themselves with their drug of choice and with people who have previously supported their addiction. No - it’s not. It’s the first law of recovery - there is a complete change in lifestyle that is required to support abstinence and if one is not able to commit to making whatever changes are required - the probability of relapse is really, REALLY high. Edited January 3, 2021 by BaileyB 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 The thing is, OP, that you don't need his endorsement on deciding to step away. You don't really need him to say, "Oh, okay, yeah, I get it." You can change your mind without offering him your supporting evidence - he's not your judge or juror deciding if your reasons and evidence are admissible. The less explaining you do, the better. He doesn't need to approve of your explanations. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Lotsgoingon Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 You gotta want to break up. You don't need to convince him of anything. You break up. If you really just act like someone who has ended a relationship, he will stop bothering you. You keep acting like a wishy-washy person and he'll keep bugging you. Did you expect him to "approve" of you dumping him? Did you expect him to send you flowers and to congratulate you. Never happens. In affairs and in regular relationships the dumpee always tries to flatter, beg, plead and guilt the dumper into resuming things. That's so frequent. The relationship ends because the dumper holds firm. Period. Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 20 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said: The thing is, OP, that you don't need his endorsement on deciding to step away. You don't really need him to say, "Oh, okay, yeah, I get it." You can change your mind without offering him your supporting evidence - he's not your judge or juror deciding if your reasons and evidence are admissible. The less explaining you do, the better. He doesn't need to approve of your explanations. Most definitely. If you are well and truly done with him, there is no discussion to be had. You have made your decision, he needs to respect that. He is trying to draw you onto the dance floor, to keep you in the dance. Are you tired of dancing? Or willing to go around one more time... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 On 11/16/2020 at 5:12 PM, elaine567 said: He has set up a nice little arrangement at work that doesn't involve all the usual risks of an affair. No sneaking around, no big lies to get out of the house, no "working late" nights, no hiding of dining out/gift expenses, no skulking around or travelling miles to avoid being recognised out on the town with his OW. The affair is all nicely comparmentalised at work. His needs are getting met and his wife will not suspect a thing, why would she? He is at work. ^^^ This. You need to point out this to him when he starts his nonsense about kissing you silly.... This "arrangement" suits him perfectly, none of it suits you. You think he is your friend, I suspect he is not your friend, just an opportunist. He saw an angle to get closer to you and took it. He does not have your best interests at heart. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: ^^^ This. He does not have your best interests at heart. No, if he had your best interest at heart, he would not be trying to guilt you back into the affair. He would be working toward a solution that supports both of you maintaining your employment in a way that is not uncomfortable for you. He would not be asking you to compromise yourself, your values, and possibly your livelihood/financial security. Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Amazing how everyone thinks that they have a different story yet it always follows the same pattern. How long has it been since you left your marriage? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Alexa007 Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) DKT3, 6 months... ETA, it's been sexless and over for close to 10 years, though... Married for 20.... Been faithful the entire time even though I wasn't in love (up until the affair last year). Also, I will say that finding this forum is what really opened my eyes. It's crazy how these things all seem to be the same. Edited January 4, 2021 by Alexa007 Link to post Share on other sites
DKT3 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 So for 10 years you were content. You start an affair and bout a year into you walk out on your marriage. Shortly after walking out, you want to break it off. You say MM should leave because he wants to and not because of the affair, yet you (even if you are not ready to accept it) left your marriage because of the affair. Lineal logic suggests that like mentioned above, you are using this break to pressure MM into leaving (again, something you are likely not ready to admit). Link to post Share on other sites
Bittersweetie Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 You are looking for words to use. Here are some: "I do not want to talk about this." "Please stop talking about this." "My choice has been made. Please stop bringing it up." "I would like to only discuss work now." Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. If you truly want to end the affair aspect of the relationship, and you continue to work together, you will have to create a SOLID WALL boundary. Only talk about work, and stymie every attempt to talk about your relationship. That wall will not be easy to maintain, you will have to work hard to do so. But if you truly want to do it, you can. But that also means disengaging from AP in all other ways...no social media, no analyzing what he does say to you, etc etc. Focus your mental energy on yourself and your growth, not on him in any way. That's just a waste of energy. P.S. I was a MW and agree with HadMe that the brain learns to operate differently, and it takes a strong focus to jumpstart out of that "brainwashing." Good luck. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole2 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I don't know that you need words so much as you need the strength to withstand his attempts to wheedle you back into a relationship. In any relationship, you have the right to end it whenever you want. In an affair where he's married to someone else? He's obtuse if he can't figure out why this relationship wouldn't be what you want going forward. (I don't think he's obtuse. I think he's just trying to get you to change your mind.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I said this on your last post. It's freaking impossible to go back to "just coworkers" after a physical and emotional relationship like this. Especially if you work together closely. Ask me how I know! It's YOUR family business? Then he needs to stop working for you. To answer your questions, just be straightforward and blunt with him. "I regret allowing myself to cheat on my husband and help you betray your wife. It's over and I don't want to talk about personal things again. I will only talk with you about necessary professional matters from here on out." Repeat ad nauseum. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
BaileyB Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Curious to know how your conversation went today... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 My AP/MM and I worked together closely too, and leaving my job seemed impossible. (Very limited and competitive job field, etc.) We were in love and had absolutely zero success keeping things ended. It's pretty impossible. Your ONLY hope is to treat him like your worst enemy on earth, who you *have* to be polite to but that's it. No small talk, no personal talk, no fun together, no non-essential activities together. Only the bare minimum of professional interaction and that's it. My MM and I are both divorced from our previous spouses and very happily married to each other and still work together. So, yeah. Based on my experience and on every perspective I've ever read from all sides of this situation, it's very difficult to do what you are trying to do. ESPECIALLY if you try to stay "friends". Just no. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
S2B Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Do your work you are paid to do. Anything other than that is extra. you can’t be his “friend”. Stay in your own lane - he is married - you have no right to know anything about his wife after participating in betraying her! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SS2855 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 On 1/3/2021 at 6:24 AM, Alexa007 said: Honestly, as hypocritical as it sounds, even if he did leave I'm worried I'd be untrusting and concerned about infidelity. I don't want a relationship like that. I always think about that. In a perfect world if we did live happily ever after then how could I ever trust him.. and vice versa I suppose. Stay strong and keep us posted. I’ve been personally doing well but today find myself anxious. It ebbs and flows. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) On 1/4/2021 at 8:30 PM, SS2855 said: I always think about that. In a perfect world if we did live happily ever after then how could I ever trust him.. and vice versa I suppose. Stay strong and keep us posted. I’ve been personally doing well but today find myself anxious. It ebbs and flows. We are in this situation (married after an affair together) and I can honestly say it's not an issue at all. I know that bad marriages don't cause cheating, etc, but we were both in unhappy situations with partners who, though we did love them, did not ultimately suit us very well. My husband and I are just very well matched and very similar, and we have done a lot of work on ourselves to examine our faulty coping mechanisms for stress and unhappiness in a marriage, etc. I think if anything, having been through what we have been through, we are FAR LESS likely to cheat than the average person. We can see how that path can unfold pretty easily given the right circumstances, and we know now how to guard against that. Whereas before, i think we were both really naive about "of course I would NEVER do that!". And some people might read this and say, oh well just wait until life gets hard for you. But we've been through a LOT already, lol. There was the utter s***show of DDay, his very nasty divorce from a narcissist (my exH is actually a wonderful guy and we were able to stay friendly, thanks to his wonderful ability to forgive and be kind in the face of me doing such a horrible thing to him). We now have a son with chronic health issues (and who we adore more than anything!), and we are doing IVF for secondary infertility. On top of regular 2020 bulls***. So! We have been through a lot of s***ty stuff together, and it's just made us closer and work better as a team. Anyway, I don't mean this all as any kind of endorsement of cheating to find a spouse.... probably the worst effing idea ever. But it's just to illustrate how it's possible to go through all of that and actually end up very happy and trusting together. That said, I think our situation is very rare and that most cheaters, especially MM, are garden-variety scumbags. Edited January 7, 2021 by Birdies Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) double post, whoops Edited January 7, 2021 by Birdies Link to post Share on other sites
Xerad Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/3/2021 at 6:24 AM, Alexa007 said: He's been texting me like crazy and I've got to stop playing along because I'm likely sending mixed signals. Will you still go to remote locations, just you and him, to work? Who gives the directive for the two of you to go to these remote locations? It doesn't sound conducive to ending an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Alexa007 Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) I'm truly ready to end my A with a MM after just over a year. I've ended it twice but he "love bombs" me and I lie to myself that "things will be better this time" and "I can just enjoy him and still live my own life". Like everyone else, I love him dearly and this is gut-wrenching. Logic is starting to finally win-out over my heart, though (and that's a good thing). Logically, he's not mine. As wonderful as he can treat me, he also is inconsistent/ hot and cold, he's never made any moves to leave but allows me to hope with talks of "our future"... Even if he did leave BS, in reality could I ever really trust him? The issue is that NC is truly impossible (I promise it's not just inconvenient, it's actually impossible so please just trust me). Has anyone ended an A where they still have to see MM, often? Please help. Edited February 20, 2021 by Alexa007 Grammar Link to post Share on other sites
ExpatInItaly Posted February 20, 2021 Share Posted February 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, Alexa007 said: The issue is that NC is truly impossible (I promise it's not just inconvenient, it's actually impossible so please just trust me). How closely do you need to be in contact with him? Meaning, do you need to have direct and private communication with him, or are you just physically in his presence without the need to stay connected digitally? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Alexa007 Posted February 20, 2021 Author Share Posted February 20, 2021 1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said: How closely do you need to be in contact with him? Meaning, do you need to have direct and private communication with him, or are you just physically in his presence without the need to stay connected digitally? Close contact, often alone. Link to post Share on other sites
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