Betrayed, again

[Wiseman2]

Do you live together? What is at stake if you leave? What is at stake if you stay?

Not sure what is meant by "Americans more traditional relationships"

You are not married to him, correct? Ok then this may just be an open relationship as opposed to "Americans more traditional relationships"

Go with the flow if you are happy with him and ok with an open "nontraditional" situation, then don't disrupt your life and just carry on.

[Gaeta]

Wiseman2: Americans (on here at least) are big on marriage it's viewed as the ultimate proof of love, not in my culture, we don't marry and many couples like us will keep 2 addresses in long term relationships especially in older couples with assets. It doesn't mean our commitment to each other is less important. Also example a few posters on here said it's impossible for him to 'love' me if he cheated, I would call that traditional thinking. Although I suspect these posters are much younger.

What I have at stake whether I stay or leave is not material. 

[elaine567]

Problem here was that your "commitment" to him was based on his assumed  commitment to you.
Now his commitment to you is found to be absent or lacking and based on lying, then can you live with that?

I would be very wary of taking the advice of a woman he cheated with..
It is in her best interests for you to fix things, it will assuage her own guilt and make her feel a lot better about herself...

i get the "being older", but does "being older" mean you have to put up with garbage to keep a man in your life?
I know you love how he seems to love you, but is that real love or is he just pretending.
Just like he pretended to these women to get sex...

[Weezy1973]

Will you be able to trust him again? To me, at the end of the day, that’s the only question that matters. 

[Gaeta]

10 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

I know you love how he seems to love you, but is that real love or is he just pretending.
Just like he pretended to these women to get sex...

Can people keep up pretend for 5 years? We were making tangible plans for our retirement together.

[Wiseman2]

29 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Americans (on here at least) are big on marriage it's viewed as the ultimate proof of love

That's funny because only 46% of adult americans are married.  Maybe that type of misinformation is a thread for the political section?🤔

Whatever your culture is really has nothing to do with whether you are distressed by this or not.

Either it bothers you...or not.

 

[Gaeta]

9 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Will you be able to trust him again? To me, at the end of the day, that’s the only question that matters. 

If l aim at something like monogamish then there is less rules to break and i'm reading when you allow your partner to step out his desire to do so drops.  I'm just thinking outloud. 

I know lf we get back together monogamy is over. 

[Gaeta]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

 

Either it bothers you...or not.

 

I am more bothered by losing our relationship and is his love real than l am bothered by the physical cheating. 

[Weezy1973]

21 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I am more bothered by losing our relationship and is his love real than l am bothered by the physical cheating. 

For me it would be the betrayal of trust. Would you trust him to follow the rules set out on whatever arrangement you made? 

[Calmandfocused]

26 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I know lf we get back together monogamy is over. 

Yes but the illusion of who you thought your boyfriend was/ is will also be over. 
 

You will never see him the same way again. You will struggle to believe anything he does/ says and you will always question whether his devotion to you is genuine. 
 

 

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

For me it would be the betrayal of trust. Would you trust him to follow the rules set out on whatever arrangement you made? 

It depends on how long he's been doing this, what dysfunction is laying under, will therapy be involved. 

[Gaeta]

9 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

Yes but the illusion of who you thought your boyfriend was/ is will also be over. 
 

You will never see him the same way again. You will struggle to believe anything he does/ says and you will always question whether his devotion to you is genuine. 
 

 

What he is is so much more than his cheating. He'll still be the boyfriend laying down in the middle of the highway for me and my daughters.

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, Calmandfocused said:

you will always question whether his devotion to you is genuine. 
 

 

Why would he bother to fake devotion to me? He has nothing to gain , l don't pay his bills and we have seperate addresses.

[SumGuy]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

If l aim at something like monogamish then there is less rules to break and i'm reading when you allow your partner to step out his desire to do so drops.  I'm just thinking outloud. 

I know lf we get back together monogamy is over. 

I doubt much will change, except now it will just be an open relationship for him.   Will it go both ways?   Will you be allowed to step out?

I'm completely ignoring the health concerns sleeping with others brings to your bed, or if he sleeps with someone who is not OK with letting him go.  I suspect he will not be as successful sleeping around if he is honest he has a partner who is OK with it.   

People do do this so who is to say it can't work for you, I'd say just go in with your eyes open and don't feel you have to accept this because it is just "naturally" how men are.  Funny how the most self serving behavior of men is labeled "natural" as an excuse to not face their own lack of character.  

[poppyfields]

Good morning Gaeta, I hope you were able to get some sleep!  

Here are my thoughts re commitment.  I posted this earlier but perhaps it was missed.  

Every couple defines commitment in their own way, what works for them as a couple and individually.  Many couples do not associate monogamy with committment, it's sex, and sex alone does not a commitment make for many couples.  

Commitment entails so much more such as loyalty to be there through thick and thin no matter what!  Not bailing when times get tough, you stay and work through at least try to.

Folks stress the importance of commitment but yet advise you to go against what true commitment means, and bail.  Seems hypocritical to me.

I think even I suggested it and I was wrong to, this is your own personal choice based on your own values and moral standards.  No one else can define those for you.

Re cheating, yes he cheated.  He screwed up big time!  You said he tried to talk to you but you dismissed it (apologies if I got that wrong).

Anyway, not justifying his cheating, there is no justification, but you can try to understand it.   There's a difference

Now that you know and have accepted, if he chooses to continue down this path, he is no longer deceiving you, no longer lying, it's an open relationship, therefore it's no longer "cheating." 

My main concern for you currently is being exposed to whatever he brings home, covid or whatever else. 

Or what if he gets one or more of these women pregnant?  

Or what if he falls in love with one of the women like my dad did?

Relationships are such a risk as it is (no guarantees), without all that.  

I know you are leaning towards staying and accepting a non-monogamous lifestyle but please think long and hard.

My mum was absolutely devastated beyond belief after my dad announced to her one day he was leaving after 15 years because he fell in love with another woman - one of his many dalliances over the years.

That said, commitment goes both ways.  You said he "does not know" why he behaves this way.  Meaning it goes beyond simply satisfying physical needs. Which lends credence to it being an obsession and possibly a sexual addiction.

There is help for that.  Is he willing to seek help for it?  Do his part?  

I know you're not enjoying sex right now but there are still things you could do for him, such as oral sex, to satisfy physical needs if that's all it was.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck as you work though all this.  Many of the posts have been harsh, as you said tough love.

And it is love, everyone loves you dearly here and wants what is best for you.  xo

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

He'll still be the boyfriend laying down in the middle of the highway for me and my daughters.

( I hope you still have your sense of humour through all this ) reading that my immediate thought was 'I'll rev up my truck and take aim...' 🚙

You will get through this, with or without him. You have a lovely loving family. 

[poppyfields]

To add to my last, re "doing for"" him such as oral to satisfy his needs, you said he has done tons of things for you, gone out of his way to help, time and time again, right?  

So why not do for him?  I love giving my fiance oral!  Nothing in it for me except the pleasure I give to him. 💞

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

22 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I know you're not enjoying sex right now but there are still things you could do for him, such as oral sex, to satisfy physical needs if that's all it was.

Thank you for all of your post and I will read it over and reflect on it. 

I do enjoy sex, I am simply tired at night. See my bf isn't big on initiating, I have to start it, he told me once he's afraid of rejection so he doesn't initiate. It worked till menopause hit, I told him to get it going and I will get into it even if I am tired, I just need to be ignited. Then he tries but tries to ignite me in the middle of the night when I'm deep into sleep! When we get up in the morning he says he touched me and I didn't react....ggrr! 

Edited November 24, 2020 by Gaeta

[poppyfields]

32 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Thank you for all of your post and I will read it over and reflect on it. 

I do enjoy sex, I am simply tired at night. See my bf isn't big on initiating, I have to start it, he told me once he's afraid of rejection so he doesn't initiate. It worked till menopause hit, I told him to get it going and I will get into it even if I am tired, I just need to be ignited. Then he tries but tries to ignite me in the middle of the night when I'm deep into sleep! When we get up in the morning he said he touched me and I didn't react....ggrr! 

I understand that, but it did not address my question asking why not give him oral to satisfy his physical needs?   Assuming that is why he seeks out other women. 

I'm sorry G, not buying you are too tired to give oral sex to a man you describe as being an extremely loving, caring and giving boyfriend for 5 years.

Most men love oral!   Even more than intercourse sometimes.  And it can go beyond simply "getting him off."

I feel very connected to my fiance while giving him oral and him to me.  I mean, I really do love his ****, it's part of him after all. 

And he feels that love from me too, it's quite validating for him and for me.

Just a suggestion G, it might resolve this mess without him obsessively going out and chasing tail.

Unless it's an addiction and if it is, again there is help for that.  Is he willing to seek help?  Do his part in maintaining the commitment?

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by poppyfields

[Allupinnit]

If you accept this lifestyle brought about to you through lies and deception just watch as your self-esteem, pride and confidence whither away until you are next-to-nothing.  

He's afraid of rejection?  Do you realize what a load of crap that is?  *Clearly* he has NO PROBLEM.  Girl you are being PLAYED!!!

@Gaeta - that man you thought he was doesn't exist.  All of those things you swear he does for you, are what ANY loving boyfriend should be doing.  That doesn't set him apart.  They don't negate this addiction he has for validation and sexual gratification.

I had a friend in your shoes.  She got a call from a woman in front of her nieces and nephews, the woman couldn't believe "Craig had a girlfriend, because he's been sleeping with me for months."  This was at her family's house during a birthday party.  Imagine the heartache, humiliation, outrage, embarrassment, etc!!!

We all suspected she'd take him back, and she did.  He really loved her, he just had a "problem" and dammit, she was going to stick by him and help him through it.  A few years later into their marriage and after their daughter was born he was at it again, found him on Ashley Madison, got to read all of those juicy emails back and forth between these strange women, detailing what they were going to do to each other/setting up second meets, etc.  It killed her all over again, and thankfully that was enough for her to divorce him.

I think right now he's ignoring you and that makes you feel like he can walk away and you want him to choose you, not these other women.  You are being manipulated.  This is not love.

[Gaeta]

He's not interested in getting oral, he tolerates it 10 seconds, he says it's not satisfying to him. He's a PIV kind of guy.

[Miss Spider]

Just playing devil’s advocate for a moment 

I think we are all looking at it from our perspective and  what would we would do/feel. But we are not Gaeta. She says that she does not desire to have sex with her boyfriend that often or at all. But she does care deeply for him and believes he cares deeply for her. She seems happy with every other aspect of the relationship. She feels she is getting a lot out of it.  I am pretty sure this is a big reason why many agree to  poly/open relationships. They do not think they can provide everything the person needs, but they care about the person and enjoy other parts of being with them. 
 

I know that you are very hurt, Gaeta. Now is not the right time to make any rash decisions. I would say that you need to really consider how much of your boundary you can move back to where it is still healthy and you can be happy. 

[Gaeta]

5 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

He's afraid of rejection?  Do you realize what a load of crap that is?

He can talk the panties off a woman no problem but he will never initiate  a physical touch, especially with a strange woman who can turn around and say that touch was unwanted I will get you in trouble. It's still not a problem for him, women here are very aggressive and will initiate physical touch no problem. 

[Watercolors]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

The problem many have who use the forum is that they have no other outlets. They may have friends relatives but discussing such personal issues is not something they may not want to do hence the use of the forum.
Advice to leave the forum, take your problem elsewhere, is thus not really helpful.
Gaeta has been here a long time, it is up to her whether she is finding the forum helpful or not.

I disagree with everything you’ve written Elaine except the part where its up to Gaeta to decide. You nor I nor anyone else in this forum gets to tell Gaeta what to do. Doesn’t matter how long she’s been here. If she’s burnt out from being yelled at by everyone because she’s not doing exactly what they demand she do, then she should step away and stop coming here for a week or two so she can clear her mind.

[poppyfields]

3 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

He's afraid of rejection?  Do you realize what a load of crap that is?  *Clearly* he has NO PROBLEM.  Girl you are being PLAYED!!!

That is a great point!  Think about it G, how could he fear rejection when he's out chasing other women? 

Is he only afraid of being rejected by you, his loving girlfriend of 5 years, but not them?

Makes no sense.