Betrayed, again

[BaileyB]

I think the fact that you miss his presence in your life this week is to be expected. You will grieve his absence and the possible loss of this relationship is the same way anyone would.

Gaeta, I say this with kindness and respect, I think if you take an honest reflection of this man you will see that there have been lots of red flags here. He has struggled, to adapt at work, with his mental health, things that you have worked to support but somehow look a little different today. Now, you add a warning from an ex-wife and behavior that is self destructive - an extreme response to a very common problem... red flags abound. 

This is assuming that this isn’t a pattern of behavior. 

I agree with others who have said, this isn’t just a problem with coping skills, this is more serious. His behavior is egregious, nothing you could ever do should warrant this kind of behavior from the man you have chosen as a life partner - not menopause, a lack of affection, the fact that you have taken in a child. If he is unhappy and this relationship is no longer meeting his needs, he has the responsibility to talk with you and the option to end the relationship. He does not have the right to have sex with several women and put your health and wellbeing at risk. This is not the response of an emotionally healthy man - his chosen solution would not even be an option for most men. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by BaileyB

[Ruby_Red]



@Gaeta, I am so sorry this happened to you. You sure didn't deserve this. Like – at all.

I tend to get so tired of men and "their needs". They have everything, a solid relationship, a great partner, everything works well, finances are in order, they have good communication, a life together, and they get along with their partner. 

And in your case: Five years down the drain!!

 

Men always seem to be these "slaves" of their own sexuality, a "condition" that somehow triggers them to make poor choices.

And the excuses are always the same. 

 

Kind of losing respect for the male species here. I mean – is your penis really that important that you can't resist signing up on POF, in order to F some random chicks? This is not even something that "happened" to him. Or women throwing themselves at him...... He made a serious effort on an online dating/cheating site to get what he wanted to do all along. Consciously. And according to the OP, these aren't even women that are attractive, but the "drive" is oh so overpowering that you just can't help it? C'mon. Is random sex with random strangers worth losing everything? To put it in a more controversial way: Is random sex with unattractive women really better than preserving something beautiful, valuable that you have with a woman that you love?

 

I don't have any advice to give, other than telling you that I would definitely not have the strength and patience to stay with him, but if you decide to do just that, then you're way stronger than me. I think that staying with a man who can live a double-life like this is a major challenge, and I cannot even fathom the implications and consequences and worries that you must be going through. My heart goes out to you. I understand that throwing away a 5-year relationship must be tough, and you should be so mad at him for doing this to you. I feel like you can't win. You leave, you are leaving an otherwise good relationship, and if you stay, you'll always feel like the fooled one. How dare he put you in this position?    

[Gaeta]

No matter the outcome l will enter therapy for myself to talk this out with a professional.  I spend a lot on my renovations, kids, dog, it's time l spend on me in something that will benefit me from here and on.

[peach302]

13 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

No matter the outcome l will enter therapy for myself to talk this out with a professional.  I spend a lot on my renovations, kids, dog, it's time l spend on me in something that will benefit me from here and on.

Brilliant! 

[lurker74]

@Gaeta...I've been off LS for a few weeks so I was torn up when I saw the betrayed title and your name next to it. You are a pillar of this community and more importantly, you are kind. So to say that I am sorry about what you are going through is putting it extremely lightly. But at the risk of giving you advice you've given countless others, let me suggest a few things....things you know but you have to read and read again.

• You are GOING through this. It will be a long time before you GET through this, and you need to be OK with the pain and uncertainty. But I promise you this. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, even when you think there is not. It may take time but you will be happy again.
• Going to therapy is critical and nearly an emergency. There is simply no way you can make a decision until you better understand yourself, so bravo. But make sure you have goals. I would suggest that your first goal is to determine what you want to do. Be open to staying or going. Let yourself explore the possibilities.
• Your BF is a bad person. He could have talked to you about his issues but he didn't trust you enough to do so.
• Your BF is a good person. You've listed all the things he does to make you happy and be present. It is a tough thing to recognize that there are very few good or bad people but instead persons made up of good and bad. You job is to determine if the good outweighs the bad.
• Likewise, you are a good and bad person too. In order to sort things out, the first thing you have to accept is that his cheating is in no way your fault. To think otherwise is to disempower him. Yes, there are things you could have done better - all of us have that - but your decreased sexual appetite is not the cause of his choice to cheat and his choice not to talk to you about it.
• People can change. We at LS like to say otherwise but if someone is willing to put in the work, they can change. What motivates them? Mostly relationships, romantic and otherwise. 
• Remember that the secret to long-lasting relationships is the ability to turn toward each other. At some point, the two of you stopped or reduced that to some extent. It sounds like he often did a good job of it in the past. But the other question you have to ask yourself is can you see yourself turning toward him again. Sometimes the answer, after cheating, is no.

I wish I could reach through this monitor and give you a hug. You are in for a long period of stress and sadness. But there are those around you - not just here - that love and care about you. Hold on to that regardless.

[gaius]

55 minutes ago, Ruby_Red said:

Men always seem to be these "slaves" of their own sexuality, a "condition" that somehow triggers them to make poor choices.

And the excuses are always the same. 

Kind of losing respect for the male species here. I mean – is your penis really that important that you can't resist signing up on POF, in order to F some random chicks? 

Not every man out there feels the need to bang every Khloe Kardashian that comes along.  I've never been tempted to cheat on my wife with anyone, ugly or attractive.

I think we have to keep in mind this is kind of the deal Gaeta signed up for. I remember there was one time he wanted to go to some other province for a while so he could "learn the language better". One of the most ridiculous piles of BS I've ever heard. I know he didn't end up going but Gaeta kind of let that and a lot of other stuff slide. And I'm not saying that in a critical way, whatever boundaries people want to set for their partners I'm fine with. But her boundary line has been pretty much letting him do whatever he wants and now all of a sudden she's trying to change the deal. 

It's actually kind of like what happened with Khloe Kardashian. She was dating Tristan Thompson, who was banging everything under the sun and she ended up pregnant. Then all of a sudden he was considered an awful guy for not becoming the doting, monogamous partner and father. But that wasn't the deal. And if Khloe thought she was going to get something out of him she wasn't getting before by getting pregnant then that was on her. Just like Gaetas not going to get anything more out of this guy no matter how many text messages she discovers. The deal is the deal.

Now it's just up to her to figure out what she wants. If she can still live with the existing terms or if she needs something else. Because he certainly ain't budging.

[Libby1]

23 hours ago, poppyfields said:

My heart literally dropped reading this^, hurt on top of hurt. Immense hurt.   I'm so sorry.

He cheats with god only knows how many women, 3 that you know of, 2 you haven't confirmed, and now doesn't want to talk for a week and ignores your messages? 

I'm on your side G, but WTF.  I'm feeling a bit ill imagining all this.

Damn girl, there is something very VERY seriously wrong with this picture.  

I'm sorry I know you love him but he sounds like some sort of narcissist or sociopath or something, I don't know, but but something is definitely off.

 

Agreed.   Finding out you've been cheated on sends you into a tailspin, especially if you're already vulnerable (and plenty of people are extra vulnerable just now because of what a strange and difficult year it's been).  In the midst of trying to process it all, a person can tolerate things that they really oughtn't tolerate...and honestly, I think narcissistic people often start taking advantage in a situation like that.  Calling the shots, even though they're the one in the wrong...thereby creating even more confusion and turmoil in the mind of the person who they cheated on.   I was in a similar situation years ago.  People can watch on in horror and ask "how are you letting this happen?" but a situation like this can be really traumatising, and a huge amount of emotional energy ends up going into just trying to process what's going on.  Which doesn't leave much energy for decision making and decision taking. 

Like you, I have a very bad feeling about this man having cheated and now calling the shots about needing space etc.  I think cheaters in this situation can quickly start to feel a combination of guilt and power...which is a very, very toxic combination.   Taking back power is vital.  Not in a "playing power games with the cheat" sort of way, but simply in terms of taking back power over one's own life.  If he's announced that he needs space...well, an old Beautiful South song comes to mind.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lGzJwksSv4

 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Libby1

[Gaeta]

36 minutes ago, gaius said:

But her boundary line has been pretty much letting him do whatever he wants 

You're 100% right. I think it's suppose to be that way. We cannot control others, you can participate to a life together and if something is unbearable and cannot be changed then you leave.

[Cookiesandough]

10 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You're 100% right. I think it's suppose to be that way. We cannot control others, you can participate to a life together and if something is unbearable and cannot be changed then you leave.

It’s not about controlling others. It’s about having boundaries. You are just pushing your boundaries back and making justifications for why they shouldn’t be there . Have you ever heard of the hedonic treadmill? There’s a part in it where when bad things happen to us we can mentally adjust to where it becomes completely acceptable.  So, a person loses a limb and becomes homeless, they can adjust to the situation to where it their happiness levels are similar to where they were before. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Gaeta]

Some of you are trying to impose on me *your own* boundaries. None of you have asked what my boundaries are and what my deal breakers are.  I live more by * live and let live* then most of you. It was not my place to forbid him to go to Toronto. My boundaries was l'm not going with you. That's the part l control.

[Cookiesandough]

You did consider it a betrayal that he slept with other people. You were devastated by it. You left your last partner for similar reasons(?)That implies that that you did have boundary there that was overstepped. 
 

 

[Wiseman2]

17 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

 what my boundaries are and what my deal breakers are. 

As long as he knows what they are, that's all that matters.

[Gaeta]

24 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

You did consider it a betrayal that he slept with other people. You were devastated by it. You left your last partner for similar reasons(?)That implies that that you did have boundary there that was overstepped. 
 

 

It so much more complicated than that. 

I was devastated yes, then during the cool down period I had to admit to myself I knew deep down I knew there were probably an occasional woman. I did not look, I did not want to find, he made me happy, made me feel loved, and important to him in ways I had not experienced before. Yes he had flaws, I have flaws, we all have flaws. We adapted to each others flaws. Then the truth I did not want to see blew out in the open. I am forced to face it but does it really make that big of a difference. I had already accepted he had a secret side. 

There are women discovering their partner cheats and fall from the 10th step down. It's not my case, I am falling from the 5th step down probably, I had already accepted he's a secretive man, I just did not know the full details. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Gaeta

[lana-banana]

13 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I am forced to face it but does it really make that big of a difference. I had already accepted he had a secret side. 

"Does it really make that big of a difference"? He not only has a secretive side, and it's a secretive side that he hasn't even remotely come clean to you about. You don't know when this started, how many women there have been, and you don't have any idea what other behavior he may have been carrying on with this whole time. While the cheating is a grave concern, his unwillingness to be honest with you and ignoring you for a week---giving himself a week to do God knows what; erase phone records? Buy a new one? Tend to his wounded ego?---is far worse. YOU are the one who should be taking time to breathe while he falls over himself apologizing, not the other way around. 

Please do not minimize his behavior. You wouldn't minimize it if any of us were writing about husbands and partners doing the same. Feel however you want to feel, and let yourself experience all kinds of hurt (as well as missing his good side, which is totally fine and correct! Nobody's black and white; you can be a good person while still being a bad partner and vice-versa), but do not lose sight of the key facts here. "Live and let live" is not the same as letting someone take advantage of you. And it is not outrageously prudish or old-fashioned or inflexible to believe that a partner who treats you this way is not long term relationship material.

[Cookiesandough]

If your point is that pushing back boundaries and dropping standards of behavior is more easily accomplished when they are  chipped away at slowly,  I completely agree with you. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Ellener]

How's today going @Gaeta? What will you do tomorrow with your family? ( it's Thanksgiving Day here for those overseas )

[Ruby_Red]

13 minutes ago, Ellener said:

How's today going @Gaeta? What will you do tomorrow with your family? ( it's Thanksgiving Day here for those overseas )

But she’s in Canada 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

 I had already accepted he's a secretive man, I just did not know the full details. 

So is there a line. If he tells you the full details, is there anything he can say that would be an instant “we’re done”? What are your boundaries here?

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

I had to admit to myself I knew deep down I knew there were probably an occasional woman. I did not look, I did not want to find, he made me happy, made me feel loved, and important to him in ways I had not experienced before....
 Then the truth I did not want to see blew out in the open

I did wonder as you seemed to go rather quickly from shock to discussing turning a blind eye and the possibility of an open marriage... as opposed to instant "hate" and throwing him out.
i also thought it slightly odd that you said his sex drive was big, yet you seemed fine with having sex once a month.
I suppose if you thought he was getting it elsewhere too, then you didn't have to bother trying to satisfy him at home...
BUT there is a big difference between suspecting and essentially burying your head in the sand, AND then having it all exposed in brilliant technicolour...
No longer, ifs, buts or maybes, no excuses, it is now REAL in all its glory.

I can see how women who are not really emotionally involved with their man can  turn a blind eye.
She can live with the affairs and the extramarital sex as she doesn't really care, she is in it for the money, the status, the kids, the house..., what he does is of no concern of hers,  their "love story" died years ago, they live separate lives, BUT you still seem very closely entangled, can you share him, would you want to share him?
Now you know, he may not feel the need to keep you "on side" in quite the same way...

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, lana-banana said:

"Does it really make that big of a difference"? He not only has a secretive side, and it's a secretive side that he hasn't even remotely come clean to you about. You don't know when this started, how many women there have been, and you don't have any idea what other behavior he may have been carrying on with this whole time. While the cheating is a grave concern, his unwillingness to be honest with you and ignoring you for a week---giving himself a week to do God knows what; erase phone records? Buy a new one? Tend to his wounded ego?---is far worse. YOU are the one who should be taking time to breathe while he falls over himself apologizing, not the other way around. 

I am tired about people bringing up this 1 week cool down as something evil. I have said in this thread he can't mentally deal with highly stressful situation. I am not defending him I am explaining to you a FACT. He has a mental blockage and he goes into a very dark place and it takes days for him to come back at the surface. I have witnessed it, my daughter as well. Now, you want him to do something he is mentally incapable. I can disagree all I want it STILL is his reality!! 

[Gaeta]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

So is there a line. If he tells you the full details, is there anything he can say that would be an instant “we’re done”? What are your boundaries here?

Nothing comes to mind. He's very vanilla in the bedroom. He's only interested in PIV and him and I used protection without fail for 5 years I doubt he had unprotected sex. Yes I hate he cheated but I think I may be able to get passed it. The things I would never endure are physical abuse, verbal abuse, drug and alcohol addiction, someone can't hold a job. 

[Cookiesandough]

Such thought experiments are typically kind of useless. Women that end up battered usually didn’t fall from the 10th step either. It usually starts  as one insult that was excused and escalates from there.  Justifications continue to be made until the abuse becomes normalized. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[BaileyB]

18 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Nothing comes to mind. He's very vanilla in the bedroom. He's only interested in PIV and him and I used protection without fail for 5 years I doubt he had unprotected sex. Yes I hate he cheated but I think I may be able to get passed it. 

Respectfully, you don’t know what he did or did not do with these women. He is very vanilla in the bedroom, with you. He doesn’t usually initiate, with you. But he did something that most would never consider by seeking sex with three different women (as far as you know) in a short period of time while in a relationship with you. That’s a sexually promiscuous man. 

Live and let live Gaeta, you will make your own decisions related to this relationship. But, I see you doing gymnastics, making excuses, justifying and rationalizing, and I worry about you... don’t lower your standards too far. Your kindness and empathy is not necessarily serving you here. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by BaileyB

[Gaeta]

12 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

 Justifications continue to be made until the abuse becomes normalized. 

I was in a physically abusive relationship and it never ever became normal to me! 

[Gaeta]

14 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Respectfully, you don’t know what he did or did not do with these women. He is very vanilla in the bedroom, with you.

So he may had 3sums and whatnot, l don't see  why it would make a difference. Maybe l don't fully understand the question.