Betrayed, again

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, Gaeta said:

@poppyfieldsI believe it can force a couple to acknowledge buried problems, like how I failed my role as a lover in our relationship. 

This can be true. I was actually thinking along these lines when you said you wished you hadn't seen the phone bill. It was a blessing (albeit painful) that you looked at his bill because then you became aware of a problem that may very well have been escalating. Imagine being blindsided by drama involving one of these women. Or, even more troubling than that, just think: you've been living side-by-side with someone who has a lot of resentment and other negative emotions towards you, but has been putting on a happy face and showing the whole world his great love for you.

But I also find myself wondering whether he's only been cheating for the past couple of months. Maybe this is a longer-term thing, in which case, how would you feel?

5 hours ago, Gaeta said:

Now he's giving me the silent treatment. I need access to my winter tires in my shed  but the front of the shed is full of heavy stuff that belongs to him. I called him and left a voice mail and hours later I left a text message explaining the situation. He read my messages but he's not replying. I know he's hurting too, he's probably embarassed, and all what a man must feel when he gets caught but geezzzzzz I'm the one who got betrayed!

He's blaming you for what happened and feeling sorry for himself.

[mark clemson]

50 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

 Both of them have had secret dalliances and say overall it's improved their marriage, as now they're much less tempted to abandon the wife and family. I eventually cut off all communication and now avoid married/involved men completely.

I would think that "improved the marriage" would be a distorted, or at least very one-sided, viewpoint heh. (Except perhaps in cases where this is actually an open and accepted arrangement.)

However, yes, for some portion of men this is how it is. OW's reading might want to take note.

[Gaeta]

10 minutes ago, peach302 said:

And what kind of response  is he doesn't know why he did what he did, maybe theres something wrong with him.

You'd be surprise at the amount of people that have addiction, or behavior they don't know why they do until they go into therapy. 

[Gaeta]

7 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

He's blaming you for what happened and feeling sorry for himself.

I have a good male friend here, a man with a lot of wisdom who's been working the 12 steps all his life and an ex cheater. He told me bf(ex) is not responding because he's embarrassed and he doesn't know how to manage the burst of different feelings he's experiencing. 

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

He told me bf(ex) is not responding because he's embarrassed and he doesn't know how to manage the burst of different feelings he's experiencing. 

He is projecting how he would feel onto your bf.
How your bf actually feels is anyone's guess.

[Allupinnit]

9 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I have a good male friend here, a man with a lot of wisdom who's been working the 12 steps all his life and an ex cheater. He told me bf(ex) is not responding because he's embarrassed and he doesn't know how to manage the burst of different feelings he's experiencing. 

Do you see now how he's gotten you to the point where you're worried about how HE'S feeling?  By ignoring you.  Unreal.  This is all about HIM!

[Weezy1973]

20 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You'd be surprise at the amount of people that have addiction, or behavior they don't know why they do until they go into therapy. 

That’s not the case here though. He’s blatantly said he doesn’t believe men are monogamous. That’s a core belief. He’s projecting what’s true of him to the whole population, which is wrong of course. But as it turns out he wasn’t lying about himself. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Weezy1973

[Gaeta]

elaine567: Yes you're right but it does fit with him. He doesn't deal well with issues, conflicts, or anything aimed at him. Once he had a big conflict at work. His work called me and I had to go pick him up, he was too distressed to drive.

[Gaeta]

6 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s not the case here though. He’s blatantly said he doesn’t believe men are monogamous. That’s a core belief. He’s projecting what’s true of him to the whole population, which is wrong of course. But as it turns out he wasn’t lying about himself. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

Ok you're stretching it. Yes it's HIS core value we know now but we all speak like that. Look at us on here women like this, women don't like that, we almost always phrase as 'we' and we don't represent all women.

[Acacia98]

19 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I have a good male friend here, a man with a lot of wisdom who's been working the 12 steps all his life and an ex cheater. He told me bf(ex) is not responding because he's embarrassed and he doesn't know how to manage the burst of different feelings he's experiencing. 

He may very well be right.

Personally, I'm going by the belief that your boyfriend has passive aggressive tendencies (based on stuff you've said in the past).

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

Personally, I'm going by the belief that your boyfriend has passive aggressive tendencies (based on stuff you've said in the past).

Yes he is absolutely. When he got passive aggressive I'd tell him: I  am not participating to this conversation and it worked well he would not take it further. 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Gaeta

[poppyfields]

54 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

When couples are in a big arguments all types of things are said. We bring back old issues, current issues, past relationships issues even. It's a big melt pot and people are raw and hurt. I attacked him, he went on the defensive, it's human. Even cheaters are human. 

As for him not being happy....he had issues, I had issues, but we were not unhappy. A few hours before this blow out he was telling me how much he's a lucky man to have me. Like I said it's not all white or all black. 

Gaeta, you can attempt to work this out with him, no judgment from me if you do.  However, the main issue as I see it is he does not believe in monogamy and you do.  You both have very strong beliefs about it from what I can sense from reading all your posts on different threads.

There is no right or wrong about that, some couples believe strongly that committed relationships should be monogamous and other couples do not. Every couple defines commitment in their own way, whatever works for them as a couple and individually.  I will go to my grave believing that.

Imo, this should have been discussed very early on before you became serious.  My fiancé and I have, I think it’s important to be on the same page.

It’s a major incompatibility in regards to values and moral standards.

But I will support you whatever you decide, whatever makes you happy.

Question:  Do you believe your boyfriend loves you?  Do you think you could live within the terms of a non-monogamous relationship? Because even if you resolved the issues that may have caused him to step out (not that his cheating was justified), you are still faced with this glaring incompatibility.

Edited November 23, 2020 by poppyfields

[Ellener]

53 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Even cheaters are human. 

Maybe but they are treating others as less than human. 

If you get back together I'd check first if it's okay for you also to have 'discreet flings' when you feel like it.

 

 

[Gaeta]

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Gaeta, you can attempt to work this out with him, no judgment from me if you do.  However, the main issue as I see it is he does not believe in monogamy and you do.  You both have very strong beliefs about it from what I can sense from reading all your posts on different threads.

There is no right or wrong about that, some couples believe strongly that committed relationships should be monogamous and other couples do not. Every couple defines commitment in their own way, whatever works for them as a couple and individually.  I will go to my grave believing that.

Imo, this should have been discussed very early on before you became serious.  My fiancé and I have, I think it’s important to be on the same page.

It’s a major incompatibility in regards to values and moral standards.

But I will support you whatever you decide, whatever makes you happy.

Question:  Do you believe your boyfriend loves you?  Do you think you could live within the terms of a non-monogamous relationship? Because even if you resolved the issues that may have caused him to step out (not that his cheating was justified), you are still faced with this glaring incompatibility.

My belief in monogamy is being shaken at this moment. Am I going to go from a man to another till I find one faithful? I'm living in the city of all sins, polyamory is popular here, open relationships and name it...even my mother lives by don't look don't ask. Am I a grown woman of 55 with unrealistic expectations, I'm telling you it's busy in my head. I said so many times on here this was the best relationship I had. He made me laugh every single day since we met 5 years ago. Sure I got to adapt to him and his holidays phobia but that's nothing when you come home to a man that worships the ground you walk on. 

Yes I believe he loves me. I could not live with an official open relationship but I could not ask as long as he's discreet and I know nothing AND he has to love me like I am the salt of the earth. That being said it's really fresh and I could change my mind tomorrow. 

[Ruby Slippers]

According to brain science, people are hard-wired for monogamy vs. non-monogamy and shades of grey, and it correlates with degree of empathy. Some people are 100% inclined to monogamy and empathy (I fall into this camp, and almost exclusively date the same kind of men), some people are 0% inclined to monogamy, and shades in between. Some people will cheat only if their partner isn't having sex with them, and some people will cheat no matter what for variety. 

[Ruby Slippers]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

Am I going to go from a man to another till I find one faithful?

I get the impression you're far more tolerant of those leaning non-monogamous than I could ever be - hence you end up with this kind of guy again and again. I also get the impression you're willing to accept much more compromise in romance than I ever would. That's probably because you're happier in coupledom with however many flaws than you are single. On the contrary, I'm sensitive and much happier single than saddled with too many messes, flaws, and compromise.  

I think it's unlikely you're going to dramatically "raise your bar." It's just not the way you are, not the way you think. You could do this, but it would involve major change.

How do you do when totally single? How might it be to have a period of a month or two apart to evaluate the situation and your feelings? 

[Allupinnit]

I feel like this kind of thread only reinforces the dudes who come on here and ask why women love cheaters and jerks.  

If he didn't have any respect for you before, he definitely won't when you tell him he's allowed to "cheat" as long he doesn't leave you and is discreet. 

I know you don't want to go back online to meet someone else; we've heard all about how many men you had to meet just to get to THIS one.  You're probably feeling afraid of the prospect of being alone.

But hey if you're fine with it, who am I to say.  I just know my heart would break every Saturday night he's not around and I'd know he was sticking it to someone else, with God knows who, picking up God knows what from POF.  🤮 That trust is gone now.  That sounds like a total crap way to live.  I don't think I could even touch him again.

[Gaeta]

3 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I get the impression you're far more tolerant of those leaning non-monogamous than I could ever be - hence you end up with this kind of guy again and again. I also get the impression you're willing to accept much more compromise in romance than I ever would. That's probably because you're happier in coupledom with however many flaws than you are single. On the contrary, I'm sensitive and much happier single than saddled with too many messes, flaws, and compromise.  

I think it's unlikely you're going to dramatically "raise your bar." It's just not the way you are, not the way you think. You could do this, but it would involve major change.

How do you do when totally single? How might it be to have a period of a month or two apart to evaluate the situation and your feelings? 

It's normal you think that way about me. You are very traditional and expect very traditional relationship with traditional men. I don't see myself as putting up with flaws, compromises and such. People come with wrinkles you integrate them to your life or you don't. I adapted fine to the holidays situation, I would not adapt to a man that drinks alcohol. I still get to pick what flaws I can live with. 

I was totally single 8 years, I did just fine. I am not afraid of being alone. There will always be a man somewhere for me. 

He offered we cool down 1 week. That's ok. A cool down of 1 or 2 months to me is a break up. 

[elaine567]

I believe open relationships work when both are wishing to explore their sexuality with other people and both adhere to the rules worked out between the two of them.
Gaeta hardly wants sex with one guy never mind a gaggle, so here her bf would be out there "exploring" every week with a collection of Walmart Wilmas, whilst she sits home worrying...

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

He offered we cool down 1 week

Is this before or after he went MIA today?

[clia]

9 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

My belief in monogamy is being shaken at this moment. Am I going to go from a man to another till I find one faithful? I'm living in the city of all sins, polyamory is popular here, open relationships and name it...even my mother lives by don't look don't ask. Am I a grown woman of 55 with unrealistic expectations, I'm telling you it's busy in my head. I said so many times on here this was the best relationship I had. He made me laugh every single day since we met 5 years ago. Sure I got to adapt to him and his holidays phobia but that's nothing when you come home to a man that worships the ground you walk on. 

A man who worships the ground you walk on would not hurt you by sleeping with multiple women over two months.  It's not unrealistic to find a man who won't cheat on you, at any age.  All men do not cheat.  If you keep finding yourself with men who do cheat, then perhaps its because you are choosing to be with men who are more inclined to cheat, rather than men who don't.  I'm with some of the other posters in that I don't think this is the first time he cheated.  You don't go from perfect loyal boyfriend to sleeping with multiple women over two months.  If this was a "one off" (like he got drunk at the bar, met someone, and cheated) and he was groveling for your forgiveness, it might be more forgivable.  But he created a dating profile and made plans with multiple women to get together and have sex.  He left you in the morning on Saturday knowing he was going to go and have sex with other women, and then happily appeared back on your doorstep on Sunday morning after having done so.  I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I don't have any sympathy at all for him right now.  He's a horrible person to have treated you this way. 

Quote

Yes I believe he loves me. I could not live with an official open relationship but I could not ask as long as he's discreet and I know nothing AND he has to love me like I am the salt of the earth. That being said it's really fresh and I could change my mind tomorrow. 

But you would know.  When he wasn't with you on Saturday night, you would know exactly what he was doing.  How would that make you feel?

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, Allupinnit said:

But hey if you're fine with it, who am I to say.  I just know my heart would break every Saturday night he's not around and I'd know he was sticking it to someone else, with God knows who, picking up God knows what from POF.  🤮 That trust is gone now.  That sounds like a total crap way to live.  I don't think I could even touch him again.

You're making it ugly and dirty and it hurts me. If ever I am ready to negotiate an arrangement of that sort there will be several rules.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, Gaeta said:

You're making it ugly and dirty

Nothing pretty and clean about bedding 5 women behind your gf's back in the space of a very short period...

[Gaeta]

3 minutes ago, clia said:

But you would know.  When he wasn't with you on Saturday night, you would know exactly what he was doing.  How would that make you feel?

If it makes me feel hurt then I know it's not for me and we end it. 

[ThereSheGoes]

I have never been in a relationship that has lasted more than a year, so I could only imagine the type of attachment you will have after five years. But....you are worth way more than to be a side piece to this man. Because thats what you will be if you stay. You deserve to be number 1 and the only 1. Lots of women your age start over, and find successful, HEALTHY relationships. Don't doubt yourself this way. Don't be afraid of the starting over. It could be the best thing that has ever happened to you.

And whats the worse that could happen if you break up with him? Your life would continue on. You still have your daughter. Still have your house. What, exactly, would you be losing in the trade off?