Tips for getting over ex MM at work

[SS2855]

I know it’s never ever ever a good idea to get involved at work, married or not. I am looking for ways if they even exist for how to process a “break up” with a MM who is also a business partner of sorts (no financial ties just close working relationship). We both had the grown up talk last week and more or less decided to mutually end it. There was no end goal- we never planned to leave and be together in the 2 years of the relationship. We both discussed in detail what that reality would look like and it was not something that made sense for either of our families (I honestly can’t think of a scenario where it would work without a lot of harm done to others and us overcoming trust issues with one another- ugh I know). Admittedly he is committed to staying in his marriage and I’m getting out of mine. It was a good talk with honestly no hard feelings as it just is- no broken promises just the feelings hitting that limit where there was simply no longer anywhere to go. I’m heartbroken and crushed but trying to forge ahead, finalize my divorce and heal with some good therapy. Though this is all new I’m struggling with ways to get through it and I’m praying that it’s possible even with him still in my life due to work. My work is a huge part of my life and identity so I don’t want to leave. Is it possible in time get to a point in this working relationship where the feelings leave, or are easier to just look back on as a memory? The relationship was very physical and even more so emotional in depth (yes sure one can argue this but to us it was) so struggling how to move on.

[Beca L]

Hi,

Sorry that you are going through this because I know exactly how you feel. I work in a school with xmm so although I don't work directly with him I do see him around school etc. I'm not sure that you can ever get to a place where you will be able to have a working relationship with someone you loved deeply and had a connection with without feeling the loss and pain. I still struggle, I know myself that leaving is the best option for me and I would also recommend it to you. I can't leave atm because of the pandemic but I'm hoping that by next summer things will be better. I don't think you forget and if anything you going through a divorce it is going to be a very tough few months ahead and seeing him moving on with his wife will be very painful. Keep posting and I'm sure others will have some great advice. I find indifference even it is faked is helping me, I just look past him as though he doesn't exist. 

[mark clemson]

I suspect that time will take care of this, it will just be even longer than it would have been. Everyone and every situation are a bit different, so I could be wrong, but just a more difficult road, not one with no eventual end.

I think a larger question for you may be - once you are ready to move on, how do you ensure you're a safe partner for any new person? Also, even if you genuinely ARE safe, will a new partner believe it. You may be stuck in a situation where revealing the situation early on doesn't make sense (as it is likely to drive a new partner away) but "coming clean" about it LATER may trigger a lot of distrust, possibly relationship-ending distrust. So a no-win situation.

I think this is likely to be a bit of a thorn in your side until eventually the situation changes. One possibility would be to never mention it at all to a new partner. However, keeping secrets from them "all along" isn't for everyone + there is a slight risk you will slip up and accidentally reveal it at some point.

Something to really think through and possibly discuss with your therapist.

[EvangelineVincent]

1 hour ago, SS2855 said:

I know it’s never ever ever a good idea to get involved at work, married or not. I am looking for ways if they even exist for how to process a “break up” with a MM who is also a business partner of sorts (no financial ties just close working relationship). We both had the grown up talk last week and more or less decided to mutually end it. There was no end goal- we never planned to leave and be together in the 2 years of the relationship. We both discussed in detail what that reality would look like and it was not something that made sense for either of our families (I honestly can’t think of a scenario where it would work without a lot of harm done to others and us overcoming trust issues with one another- ugh I know). Admittedly he is committed to staying in his marriage and I’m getting out of mine. It was a good talk with honestly no hard feelings as it just is- no broken promises just the feelings hitting that limit where there was simply no longer anywhere to go. I’m heartbroken and crushed but trying to forge ahead, finalize my divorce and heal with some good therapy. Though this is all new I’m struggling with ways to get through it and I’m praying that it’s possible even with him still in my life due to work. My work is a huge part of my life and identity so I don’t want to leave. Is it possible in time get to a point in this working relationship where the feelings leave, or are easier to just look back on as a memory? The relationship was very physical and even more so emotional in depth (yes sure one can argue this but to us it was) so struggling how to move on.

Out of the two of you, the only one doing the right thing after the fact, is you. You are getting divorce, as you should, because if you can cheat regularly on a man and go home to him like nothing is going on and sleep in the same bed as him, you don’t deserve that man. 
 

Your AP doesn’t want to do right by his wife and leave the marriage he had no respect for, a man willing to look his wife in the eye after messing around with others, and pretend like nothing happened is not a guy you want to marry. He can’t be trusted, only way he can redeem himself is if he sat his wife down, told her the whole thing, then left it up to her to decide what she wants to do. But like most MM, he will take it to the grave, and more than likely cheat again with someone else. Be glad you didn’t marry this loser, he loves no one but himself.

 

You will be fine in time. Ignore him completely unless it’s a work issue you can’t ignore. Be stern, no smiling, no flirting, no looks. If he wanted you, he’d divorce his wife and be with you, but he is only interested in convenience, staying married is more comfortable and less stressful than divorce and custody battles. He doesn’t want to deal with the consequences of his actions so he lies to the wife, remember this always. There’s nothing here for you. Move on by ignoring him and eventually you’ll date again.

[SS2855]

32 minutes ago, EvangelineVincent said:

Out of the two of you, the only one doing the right thing after the fact, is you. You are getting divorce, as you should, because if you can cheat regularly on a man and go home to him like nothing is going on and sleep in the same bed as him, you don’t deserve that man. 
 

Your AP doesn’t want to do right by his wife and leave the marriage he had no respect for, a man willing to look his wife in the eye after messing around with others, and pretend like nothing happened is not a guy you want to marry. He can’t be trusted, only way he can redeem himself is if he sat his wife down, told her the whole thing, then left it up to her to decide what she wants to do. But like most MM, he will take it to the grave, and more than likely cheat again with someone else. Be glad you didn’t marry this loser, he loves no one but himself.

 

You will be fine in time. Ignore him completely unless it’s a work issue you can’t ignore. Be stern, no smiling, no flirting, no looks. If he wanted you, he’d divorce his wife and be with you, but he is only interested in convenience, staying married is more comfortable and less stressful than divorce and custody battles. He doesn’t want to deal with the consequences of his actions so he lies to the wife, remember this always. There’s nothing here for you. Move on by ignoring him and eventually you’ll date again.

Thank you for these words. I know I could never go back to my marriage, and I also know that I was miserable in my marriage and should have dissolved it before going elsewhere, especially to an affair.  I think I just want to know that in time the sadness will leave even though he’s still a presence. I also don’t know how to feel as we’ve corresponded work stuff but I want him to know I’m hurting so much, but realize it doesn’t change anything. 

[EvangelineVincent]

31 minutes ago, SS2855 said:

Thank you for these words. I know I could never go back to my marriage, and I also know that I was miserable in my marriage and should have dissolved it before going elsewhere, especially to an affair.  I think I just want to know that in time the sadness will leave even though he’s still a presence. I also don’t know how to feel as we’ve corresponded work stuff but I want him to know I’m hurting so much, but realize it doesn’t change anything. 

Am not in your position as am single BUT I was involve with a MM before in the past. I took me 8 months to start letting go, I posted on here and that helped a bunch because before I had no outlet and the few people that sorta knew some of it, you can only talk about it so much before you feel you are dumping your problems on them, plus, people talk, you tell one person and then everyone knows.

What has helped me is that, I know it’s unrequited love, he is having sex with his wife at night, not me, he cheated on her and then lied to her face, why ? Because they have a kid, a nice house, and they’ve been together for a long long time, do you know my place in that equation ? It’s so tiny and insignificant that it didn’t make the cut. 
 

So many of these MM’s just want attention, someone to flirt with them, someone to put them up on the pedestal their wife no longer puts them in because the honeymoon stage is years gone.

The man I was with flirting back with me and we were touchy feely at work, we never met outside of work, it truly was what was convenient for HIM, Nevermind his wife or me, it was about him. On the days he felt guilty he’d back off, but after a few days, it was like nothing happened and once again my advances were returned. Eventually he left the job after another ex coworker of his found him a place to work, the two of them were close too, though he denies anything went on. 
 

These are men that shouldn’t have ever married in the first place because they can’t be faithful to anyone, and still knowing this, they get married and have kids.... 

Feeling angry or resentful did nothing for me, especially since I knew that although I was single the whole time, he was not, so am to blame too. I’ve learned from now on, if someone can’t give me their all, they deserve none of mine. 
 

This man might try to once again pick up the affair with false pretense of friendship concern for you, do not engage, no matter how much he contacts you or pleads or what he says. UNLESS he tells his wife what happened and takes accountability as an adult, then gets DIVORCED, do NOT entertain him. He is worth no one’s time. If he persists in any way, tell him you’ll tell his wife everything, he will stop.

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by EvangelineVincent

[SS2855]

4 hours ago, mark clemson said:

how do you ensure you're a safe partner for any new person?

That’s a great question and I know down the road I will have to atone for it. I’ve thought about that so much as well. I am committed to therapy and fixing behaviors and self as I’m bound to repeat the same i realize without proper healing. I’m wrapped up in so much emotion where I don’t even know which self to present to the MM now. He believes we’re friends and just made this decision together but truly I’m heartbroken. Struggling as expected to not keep visiting and revisiting all the times and places in my head where we spent together. Just hurting and so hoping I can ride this through and get to the other side where it just doesn’t hurt anymore even when I see him- which is inevitable at some point because of work.

[Bittersweetie]

I would suggest coming up with a line or response that you would have if/when xMM crosses the boundaries, or says something flirty, or reminisces about your mutual past, etc. Something simple like, "I am not discussing this" or "Please do not bring that up." Then if he continues, you just repeat it over and over. It's something you can nail into your brain so if/when it happens, you're not like a deer in the headlights and you have an automatic response. I didn't work with xMM but I decided if I ever ran into him and he said something to me, I'd simply say "Please leave me alone." And if he didn't, I would just keep raising my voice until it became uncomfortable. Fortunately I never had to use it, but it made me feel better to be prepared.

There was a poster years ago who continued to work with xAP after her affair. You may be able to look up her posts to see if you find anything helpful, her name was Anne1707. She was a regular poster for many years then suddenly stopped, I always wondered if she was okay.

[mark clemson]

14 hours ago, SS2855 said:

 but truly I’m heartbroken. Struggling as expected to not keep visiting and revisiting all the times and places in my head where we spent together. Just hurting and so hoping I can ride this through and get to the other side where it just doesn’t hurt anymore even when I see him- which is inevitable at some point because of work.

One thing to be aware of is that drama (even "mentally internal" drama) and poignancy are your enemies as they will keep this stuff replaying in your head. @schlumpy likes to recommend the cheating 180 to those cheated on or broken up with, but you might try apply some of that stuff yourself here. At its core the 180 is mostly about using Cognitive Behavioral Therapy principles to start emotionally detaching from a partner IMO. So I think it can apply in your situation as well.

You probably also want to do the "brain happiness" suggestion I frequently make - e.g. time in nature to boost serotonin, etc, etc which I've posted a lot around here.  None of this stuff is a quick fix, but it should at least help take the edge off your distress.

[RebeccaR]

Instead of agonizing about how to present  yourself to your xMM, why not tell him the truth? “I am taking the breakup very hard and can’t be friends now, and need NC unless something unavoidable and work related comes up.” If he cares about you, he will respect your wishes. The less contact you have with him, the better it will be for your recovery. Why does he think it was a mutual decision to end things?

[jah526]

I work in the same department as the xMM but rarely have to see him. I went completely NC with him so that makes it easier. When I have had interactions with him in the 3.5 years since I broke it off, it’s been very formal. I can look back at him now as a sleazebag I got away from. I’m disgusted with myself as well, and I can’t turn off the pictures in my mind, things I’m horrified by now. In your case, I’m not sure there are any good tips. You have a close working relationship and that’s going to make it very difficult. I wish you luck.

[SS2855]

1 hour ago, RebeccaR said:

Instead of agonizing about how to present  yourself to your xMM, why not tell him the truth? “I am taking the breakup very hard and can’t be friends now, and need NC unless something unavoidable and work related comes up.” If he cares about you, he will respect your wishes. The less contact you have with him, the better it will be for your recovery. Why does he think it was a mutual decision to end things?

I honestly don’t know. Since the pandemic began in March we went from seeing and/or traveling together 2-3x per week for 2 years to suddenly almost nothing at all. We managed the random lunch meeting/walk etc. here and there but it was and has been tough to spend time together since nobody has really had anything to “go to” or reason to leave the house the last several months. In this time while he kept contact I felt more of the disconnect. He would always deny it- tell me about troubles at home (children issues and spouse)- and then come back with more words of affirmation, song lyrics, etc. and I’d convince myself he was still very much in love as that is what it felt like. Only recent I felt the pull away when we both happened to be on a random work related trip (one he asked me to meet him at) where I found him to be distant. That was enough for me when we returned to ask him what was going on. He said nothing and then said he’s struggling knowing he can’t give me what I deserve right now. I took it to heart and just have kept my distance. We had a good conversation a week ago but have been very little contact since. I feel heartbroken because just a week ago after said conversation he sent me a message with a song lyric he pointed out specifically about “wanting to be me and you- I want it to be to”. Doing mental gymnastics in my head since- I’m feeling destroyed by the low contact (I haven’t and won’t initiate) what felt like a break up and push to friendship, and then only a week ago sending me music that pulls me back in. Nothing since Friday and I feel like crumbling. A good friend and close business associate. You are right in that if he does reach out with something random I will have to tell him I can’t do it anymore and need time to heal. I’m heartbroken.

[Luna66star]

The lesson I learned (as I was in a similar situation as you) was that although it appears MM appear interested - they really, or at least in my case, are not that interested in who we really are inside.  It's all superficial, surface level engagement.  Even during sex, they are detached. While it was for awhile great for my ego, I can say confidently that the entire situationship was preposterous from start to end.  Everything was about him - period.

MM was also in the workplace.  Quite often you will find out they are hitting on other females in the office.  That's when it occurred to me I was nothing special to him.  The flirting made him feel wanted as his wife wouldn't allow him to touch her anymore, separate bedrooms, nags him ad nauseam.  Or so he said.  Who knows what the actual truth was. One time he commented that he enjoyed the make up sex.  WTF?  Contradictory facts were abound with him.

I will never get involved with a MM again, not even as so called friends.  It may seem cold to some to turn away a friendship.  It's just maintaining strong   boundaries from further heart ache.

You may not be able to cold Turkey your MM as you see him at work.   Be cordial & non personal with him.  You actually may want to tell him outright that you wish to be left alone.

MM in my case doesn't contact me anymore, thankfully.  I kept saying no to all his invitations and I turned indifferent.  Eventually he gave up, stopped calling, texting, stopped appearing out of no where and went on with his life or sought out other woman. 

Hopefully one day you can have peace in your heart and leave it wide open for a man who is single and ready to love you in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

On 11/23/2020 at 4:25 PM, EvangelineVincent said:

Am not in your position as am single BUT I was involve with a MM before in the past. I took me 8 months to start letting go, I posted on here and that helped a bunch because before I had no outlet and the few people that sorta knew some of it, you can only talk about it so much before you feel you are dumping your problems on them, plus, people talk, you tell one person and then everyone knows.

What has helped me is that, I know it’s unrequited love, he is having sex with his wife at night, not me, he cheated on her and then lied to her face, why ? Because they have a kid, a nice house, and they’ve been together for a long long time, do you know my place in that equation ? It’s so tiny and insignificant that it didn’t make the cut. 
 

So many of these MM’s just want attention, someone to flirt with them, someone to put them up on the pedestal their wife no longer puts them in because the honeymoon stage is years gone.

The man I was with flirting back with me and we were touchy feely at work, we never met outside of work, it truly was what was convenient for HIM, Nevermind his wife or me, it was about him. On the days he felt guilty he’d back off, but after a few days, it was like nothing happened and once again my advances were returned. Eventually he left the job after another ex coworker of his found him a place to work, the two of them were close too, though he denies anything went on. 
 

These are men that shouldn’t have ever married in the first place because they can’t be faithful to anyone, and still knowing this, they get married and have kids.... 

Feeling angry or resentful did nothing for me, especially since I knew that although I was single the whole time, he was not, so am to blame too. I’ve learned from now on, if someone can’t give me their all, they deserve none of mine. 
 

This man might try to once again pick up the affair with false pretense of friendship concern for you, do not engage, no matter how much he contacts you or pleads or what he says. UNLESS he tells his wife what happened and takes accountability as an adult, then gets DIVORCED, do NOT entertain him. He is worth no one’s time. If he persists in any way, tell him you’ll tell his wife everything, he will stop.

 

Are you saying the affair is the wife's fault?

[EvangelineVincent]

10 hours ago, Luna66star said:

The lesson I learned (as I was in a similar situation as you) was that although it appears MM appear interested - they really, or at least in my case, are not that interested in who we really are inside.  It's all superficial, surface level engagement.  Even during sex, they are detached. While it was for awhile great for my ego, I can say confidently that the entire situationship was preposterous from start to end.  Everything was about him - period.

MM was also in the workplace.  Quite often you will find out they are hitting on other females in the office.  That's when it occurred to me I was nothing special to him.  The flirting made him feel wanted as his wife wouldn't allow him to touch her anymore, separate bedrooms, nags him ad nauseam.  Or so he said.  Who knows what the actual truth was. One time he commented that he enjoyed the make up sex.  WTF?  Contradictory facts were abound with him.

I will never get involved with a MM again, not even as so called friends.  It may seem cold to some to turn away a friendship.  It's just maintaining strong   boundaries from further heart ache.

You may not be able to cold Turkey your MM as you see him at work.   Be cordial & non personal with him.  You actually may want to tell him outright that you wish to be left alone.

MM in my case doesn't contact me anymore, thankfully.  I kept saying no to all his invitations and I turned indifferent.  Eventually he gave up, stopped calling, texting, stopped appearing out of no where and went on with his life or sought out other woman. 

Hopefully one day you can have peace in your heart and leave it wide open for a man who is single and ready to love you in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

 

All I can say is I agree with everything you were saying too. My MM had someone else at work he was flirting with and close to before me, still continued after me now that he left town and job. These men need female attention, they start out by getting to know you, light flirts that are so subtle you might miss it, but they do get that flirty look in their face, they offer to help you out with certain work things, give you their number, next thing you know, you are hooked because you already had a crush to begin with. 
 

Then that’s when you realize that now things are on HIS terms, you can touch him in private but he either acts like he doesn’t know you in public or he flirts with you in front of others to make it appear things are light and airy between you guys. You can’t text or call during certain times because although he doesn’t mind cheating and disrespecting his wife behind her back, he is a choir boy in her presence.

Then you find out that the guy has had a lot of “female friends” women that are usually very much into giving to him and receiving all the same stuff you guys do too.

Oh and did I mention low effort ? In my case he couldn’t be bothered with me anywhere but at work since he had to be there anyways he figured why not ? Then he left town and other than an “add you doing ok ?” Text from him months ago, he hasn’t initiated any real contact because I gather he has someone new to mess with and am too far away to make it worth the bother, it’s all at his convenience. 
 

The only thing scummier than this guy is maybe a murderer or child molester. 
 

Yet I fell in what I thought was love for this man for years, talk about a complete waste of time. 

[SS2855]

13 hours ago, RebeccaR said:

Instead of agonizing about how to present  yourself to your xMM, why not tell him the truth? “I am taking the breakup very hard and can’t be friends now, and need NC unless something unavoidable and work related comes up.” If he cares about you, he will respect your wishes. The less contact you have with him, the better it will be for your recovery. Why does he think it was a mutual decision to end things?

Thanks Rebecca- haven’t spoken in a few days and today as expected got the happy thanksgiving! “group text” which makes me feel worse now- like nothing special there. I don’t know if he’s just that s***ty or following the rules of our new found friendship. I almost want to message him back and tell him I’m heartbroken so leave me be but I don’t want to ruin his holiday. It hurts to go from being someone u thought was one of the most special in someone’s life (he used to call me his “favorite person”) to just a person in a generic holiday text. I’m soooo tempted to message him back to let him know how I feel but what good does that do right?

[EvangelineVincent]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

Are you saying the affair is the wife's fault?

Not sure where you got that from, it does take two for a marriage to work out, but it was HIS decision to cheat, and MY decision to be with him back then. So the fault is mine and his, his especially since he was the one that was married and broke his vows.

[EvangelineVincent]

4 minutes ago, SS2855 said:

Thanks Rebecca- haven’t spoken in a few days and today as expected got the happy thanksgiving! “group text” which makes me feel worse now- like nothing special there. I don’t know if he’s just that s***ty or following the rules of our new found friendship. I almost want to message him back and tell him I’m heartbroken so leave me be but I don’t want to ruin his holiday. It hurts to go from being someone u thought was one of the most special in someone’s life (he used to call me his “favorite person”) to just a person in a generic holiday text. I’m soooo tempted to message him back to let him know how I feel but what good does that do right?

Being that he is married ? That will do no good to text him. Only get in touch when he has divorced (most MM’s don’t ever divorce ). Even if he divorced, she’s not the bad guy in the marriage, HE was, so she’ll be glad to be rid of him and you’ll be getting no prize.

Serial cheaters don’t change, it’s a waste of our time. It only works if you know for sure you’ve been the only woman he ever cheated with and then he told his wife everything and divorced to be with you. That’s VERY rare because most men that cheat, do so on the regular with multiple women throughout the years, is very unlikely there was only one woman.

Hang in there, am in a similar boat too, and I’ve gotten past the itch to reach out stage, in time when you keep playing all their crap behavior in your head, you learn to move on.

 

[GeorgiaPeach1]

8 hours ago, EvangelineVincent said:

Not sure where you got that from, it does take two for a marriage to work out, but it was HIS decision to cheat, and MY decision to be with him back then. So the fault is mine and his, his especially since he was the one that was married and broke his vows.

"So many of these MM’s just want attention, someone to flirt with them, someone to put them up on the pedestal their wife no longer puts them in because the honeymoon stage is years gone."

Your exact words. 

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by GeorgiaPeach1

[EvangelineVincent]

12 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach1 said:

"So many of these MM’s just want attention, someone to flirt with them, someone to put them up on the pedestal their wife no longer puts them in because the honeymoon stage is years gone."

Your exact words. 

 

That doesn’t mean the wife is to blame, I never said the wife is to blame. Even if the wife stopped giving attention, she still doesn’t deserve to be cheated on, there’s always either a way to fix the marriage or a way to end it. He opted for neither and took the route of a cheater.

[mark clemson]

On 11/26/2020 at 8:07 AM, EvangelineVincent said:

The only thing scummier than this guy is maybe a murderer or child molester.

That seems rather strong, especially considering how many women were apparently happy to be in affairs with him. I've also seen the figure mentioned in posts here that something like 70% of people cheat at some point in their lives. And apparently lots of first responders and doctors and other medical professionals have affairs.

 

On 11/26/2020 at 8:22 AM, EvangelineVincent said:

So the fault is mine and his, his especially since he was the one that was married and broke his vows.

A bit less one-sided.

Edited November 27, 2020 by mark clemson

[EvangelineVincent]

22 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

That seems rather strong, especially considering how many women were apparently happy to be in affairs with him. I've also seen the figure mentioned in posts here that something like 70% of people cheat at some point in their lives. And apparently lots of first responders and doctors and other medical professionals have affairs.

 

A bit less one-sided.

Cheating and lying about it IS very scummy and a huge character flaw. There are not that many things that top it out there.

Am not saying someone is scummy for cheating, IF they own up to their cheating, tell their significant other, end the relationship and move on or work on it, that’s fine. That can be understood.
 

But, it IS very scummy to cheat and then go home like nothing went down and look your spouse in the face afterwards like nothing happen, pose for family pictures, tell them you love them, continue on as normal while you continue to cheat. If this is 70% common and out there, then we as a society are scum. It doesn’t make it right just because people behave this way often. 
 

My favorite is when they claim to stay together for the kids, as if lying and cheating on their partners is better than treating them with respect and divorcing a marriage that’s not working.

My MM was this way, he was ok with lying to his wife and usually ok with cheating on her, but he drew the line at telling her the truth and letting her decide what she wanted to do. He had no respect for her because in his mind it’s more important to keep the marriage going for his son so he doesn’t come from a broken home ( even though he has already broken the home his family is just unaware). 
 

He was close to another female “friend” who was married with kids too, they were physically displaying their affections without kissing or holding hands. They were also very joined at the hip, it worked better for him to cheat with her because she didn’t expect him to be honest and forthcoming to his wife, the reason she didn’t expect him to be that way is because she was lying and cheating too ! She didn’t want to leave her husband she just wanted extra male attention, I wanted him to be honest, he had no plans for that.

It scares me to think that if I ever marry my husband will rationalize his cheating behavior the same way this guy did and I’ll never know. 
 

I sometimes wonder if it’s not best to be alone forever that way you don’t ever have to worry about betrayal. 
 

I’ve thought of telling his wife about him and I and him and his other female friend, just so she knows and can decide for herself what she wants to do. I’m no longer speaking to him or seeing him anywhere, but then he could turn around and say am lying and am just revengeful because he turned me down. So I’ll just stay quiet, no doubt in the future she’ll find out, even though he is very sneaky and covers his tracks well.

 

[mark clemson]

 You're of course entitled to your opinion. I find it bizarre that you're not counting an OW/OM's "character flaws" as nearly equivalent, but I guess we all think differently.

Humans generally aren't perfect. I think it's VERY likely most of those that don't cheat will have other moral flaws. There are a WIDE variety, depending on one's perspective. Such things are very much in the eye of the beholder. For example, in some parts of the world and adulteress might be stoned to death, but a 13 year old might be married off to an adult male without batting an eye. Whereas in many US states you can have an affair with zero impact on the divorce outcome (assuming divorce occurs); try marrying a 13 year old though...

1 hour ago, EvangelineVincent said:

Cheating and lying about it IS very scummy and a huge character flaw. There are not that many things that top it out there.

You're of course entitled to your opinion. I find it bizarre that you're not counting an OW/OM's "character flaws" as nearly equivalent, but I guess we all think differently.

Humans generally aren't perfect. I think it's VERY likely most of those that don't cheat will have other moral flaws. There are a WIDE variety, depending on one's perspective. Such things are very much in the eye of the beholder. For example, in some parts of the world and adulteress might be stoned to death, but a 13 year old girl might be married off to an adult male without batting an eye. Whereas in many US states you can have an affair with zero impact on the divorce outcome (assuming divorce occurs); trying marrying a 13 year old though...

 

1 hour ago, EvangelineVincent said:

It scares me to think that if I ever marry my husband will rationalize his cheating behavior the same way this guy did and I’ll never know.

Again, NOT scared of the women who'll cheat with him. Some may even actively "tempt" him to it. No worries (or judgement) there, tho? Seems bizarre to me, dunno.

Personally I think a (deliberate, aware) tax cheat has at least an equally bad moral compass to a cheater. And has, in fact, actually committed a crime (here in the US).

To each their own, I suppose.

Edited November 27, 2020 by mark clemson

[EvangelineVincent]

35 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

 You're of course entitled to your opinion. I find it bizarre that you're not counting an OW/OM's "character flaws" as nearly equivalent, but I guess we all think differently.

Humans generally aren't perfect. I think it's VERY likely most of those that don't cheat will have other moral flaws. There are a WIDE variety, depending on one's perspective. Such things are very much in the eye of the beholder. For example, in some parts of the world and adulteress might be stoned to death, but a 13 year old might be married off to an adult male without batting an eye. Whereas in many US states you can have an affair with zero impact on the divorce outcome (assuming divorce occurs); try marrying a 13 year old though...

You're of course entitled to your opinion. I find it bizarre that you're not counting an OW/OM's "character flaws" as nearly equivalent, but I guess we all think differently.

Humans generally aren't perfect. I think it's VERY likely most of those that don't cheat will have other moral flaws. There are a WIDE variety, depending on one's perspective. Such things are very much in the eye of the beholder. For example, in some parts of the world and adulteress might be stoned to death, but a 13 year old girl might be married off to an adult male without batting an eye. Whereas in many US states you can have an affair with zero impact on the divorce outcome (assuming divorce occurs); trying marrying a 13 year old though...

 

Again, NOT scared of the women who'll cheat with him. Some may even actively "tempt" him to it. No worries (or judgement) there, tho? Seems bizarre to me, dunno.

Personally I think a (deliberate, aware) tax cheat has at least an equally bad moral compass to a cheater. And has, in fact, actually committed a crime (here in the US).

To each their own, I suppose.

If I was married and my husband cheated on me with another woman. I’d be upset at both, but at the end of the day I didn’t marry that other woman, I didn’t buy a house with her, I didn’t have kids with her... I did all that with my husband, so HE is the responsible party, not her, HE is married, not her, HE took vows, not her.
 

If I was married and in love with my husband and some guy came to me hitting on me, I’d tell him am not interested and that I’m happily married to the love of my life. If I was tempted by this other man and I cheated, I can’t say “well, it’s the other guys fault that I broke my marriage vows and cheated on my husband “ can I ? Of course not, am married not the other guy, it’s my responsibility to be faithful, and guess what ? When you’re in love, is easy. 
 

So I guess the question is why are people married to people they aren’t in love with and cheat like there’s no tomorrow with zero accountability for their actions ? Why not divorce and give their partner the chance to be loved by someone that will be faithful ?

I’m not in love with MM now, and am no longer in limerence like I had been for months and months, so I guess I no longer see him as perfect.

I’m not perfect either, far from it. I was the single party though. The thing am guilty of is falling in love with a man that was ok with cheating on his wife. I should have never looked his way let alone spend enough time at work with him to where I fell in love. What was I thinking ? I was stupid. 

Not bashing him, I wish he finds happiness perhaps opening up to his wife about his infidelities and they work it out and their marriage gets stronger. I don’t think wishing anyone does bad in life is a good way to live and it won’t make you feel better. 

[mark clemson]

4 minutes ago, EvangelineVincent said:

So I guess the question is why are people married to people they aren’t in love with and cheat like there’s no tomorrow with zero accountability for their actions ? Why not divorce and give their partner the chance to be loved by someone that will be faithful ?

IMO, while there are a wide variety of specifics I see 3 usual categories:

- Those who simply want to and either don't care about or aren't thinking about the risks they are taking.

- Those who are genuinely unhappy in their marriage but for whatever reasons don't want to leave it and so use the affair as a sort of emotional salve.

- Those who gradually and to a certain extent unintentionally develop feelings for another person such as a friend or co-worker who they have regular contact with. They may or may not act on these feelings.

There are cases that don't fit these - drunken ONS "mistakes" and revenge affairs being among them, but IMO those 3 are the main types. The 3 types IMO are not necessarily mutually exclusive either as people's feelings and moral philosophies can sometimes shift around over time.

You mention worrying about a future husband. IMO your best bet is to keep him extremely happy and content with you. That is NOT a guarantee by any means, but is likely to stave off the middle type I mention above.