your thoughts of emails my wife makes to her friends about me.

[sp01]

I am hoping to get others' opinions of what my wife says about me in her emails to her friends, which I find hurtful. A disclaimer: I only know about these emails after she secretly babysat another man's child when I was out of town on business and that "friendship" with this other guy was also a secret. Immediately after returning I figured out that someone had been over when I was away and after confronting her she still kept quiet. Since she wasn't going to tell me what happened I checked her emails and found a whole bunch of negative emails about me. So, secret "friend" and babysitting for him while I was away aside for a bit (but I would love to hear comments on that), I just want to focus on these emails, which she thinks are not hurtful. Any opinions, even contrary to what you think I want to hear, are appreciated. I will give you my interpretation, but please be honest if you agree or not.

1) I worked my butt off on an application for a $80K grant related to my work. Unfortunately, the grant agency turned me down. My wife emailed several of her friends behind my back and told them I didn't get it. Her exact words were: "he got the letter and it was a big fat no." - I am hurt that she is broadcasting my unsuccessful applications to her friends (yes, I have pride). What is noteworthy is that she never emailed anyone when I was successful. Also, to describe it as a "big fat no" is to me making it sound like it was a strong rejection...as if the application was really junky. She cannot understand why I feel that way. What is your opinion of this generally and more specifically, what is your opinion of what a "big fat no" means?

2) At one time we had carpet beetles in the house. They will eat anything organic (wool, fur, cotton, cereals, etc). They are very difficult to get rid of. I recognized that we had a problem and we had to work hard to get rid of them. That meant moving furniture away from the walls and vacuuming and spraying the baseboards where they are usually at. We had to inspect every piece of clothing and linens. And we had to act fast because they will multiple like crazy and get all over the house. I could see that she wasn't really believing that the situation was that bad. She hardly helped me. Then I found emails to her friends really, strongly griping and whining (to say it politely) about all the work we had to do and that she thought we were all fine and in the clear after a little vacuuming. Her exact words in a couple of emails was (and italics are hers): a) "so we've been vacuuming like crazy and it's beyond exhausting. I think we're fine now, but Steve is incessant about it. It sucks" and b) "...we literally have all the furniture pushed in the middle of the room so we can vacuum the baseboards every single night (cue: eye rolling). Personally, I feel Steve has gone OCD on this but he's my husband and I have to support him." What is noteworthy was that we really were infested with them and she discovered that herself when we found the mother-load of hundreds of them under the appliances and eventually we had to call in the professionals. Also, the email calling me incessant was two days before Valentines day where I got a card that said "thank you for being you. So amazing and incredible." (she forgot to mention "incessant", too). What is your opinion of how she is describing me as being OCD and incessant - especially incessant? It is clear she didn't understand the seriousness of the problem, but that aside the fact that she is complaining to her friends rather than trusting/respecting me and instead is calling me incessant is something I find very hurtful. She cannot accept the fact that incessant is an inherently negative word. Is it obvious to you that incessant is meant in a negative way as "he is being annoying/irritating."?

 

These are just a of couple emails. Some might think it is being oversensitive to spend too much time being hurt by these emails. But isn't it safe to say that these are unkind at best and would be hurtful to most people? And what makes it worse is that these are not just a couple of emails to just get over - these are among years of emails complaining about mostly little things (e.g., the fact that I put Christmas decorations up a few days before Dec1, that I like to tidy the house up before visitors, etc.). Taken together, all these emails are like death by a thousand paper cuts. I look forward to hearing your opinions. Thank you.

Edited November 24, 2020 by sp01
typos

[carhill]

Old guy here, married in the past....

I've met practically zero women who don't talk smack about their husbands or boyfriends; it seems that's how they connect with each other, along with shopping.

It is what it is. My advice, talk less and grow a tougher skin. It took a divorce to teach me that lesson. Also, it helps to be good-looking and have plenty of money. Women like power. It's attractive. The actions speak louder than any words. Good luck!

[mark clemson]

I think you could consider some marriage counseling so that she will (hopefully) step back and get perspective and at least be significantly more respectful even if it doesn't stop entirely. There are probably some adjustments you could make as well to keep her a bit happier. So, a win/win IF counseling is successful. Suggest you look for a very experienced counselor who genuinely specializes in relationship issues if you decide to do this.

[sp01]

Thank you for the replies so far. I get what you are saying. But, could you please answer the specific questions I have in my post?

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, sp01 said:

 I just want to focus on these emails, which she thinks are not hurtful.

You told her you read her emails?

[sp01]

Wiseman2: Yes, I did confront her about the emails the same time I confronted her about what she did when I was away. I don't honestly feel bad about reading her emails if she is going to go behind my back with a secret male friend and do whatever secret things they are doing. Everyone  I have told this to all say they don't blame me and the ends justify the means. My counselor even said that cheating or secret get togethers means that the offending spouse forfeits their right for privacy. Everyone I have spoken to agrees. I understand some people may feel different but ultimately how was I ever to find out when she refused to tell me what happened when I was away. That aside, she refuses also to understand the hurtful words in her emails. What do you think about my questions in my original post?

 

[Alpacalia]

I think oversharing with others about a relationship (especially marriage) is not the best idea. 

Unless of course the relationship is abusive. 

Maybe a discussion with your wife about which details in your relationship should be off limits or that you agree to keep between the both of you is in order?

[Ellener]

You find it hurtful your wife doesn't place you on a pedestal with her friends? is how I read what you are asking. She finds you pedantic and 'incessant' but loves you anyway!

And don't read other people's correspondence- that's just rude. 

 

[sp01]

10 minutes ago, Ellener said:

You find it hurtful your wife doesn't place you on a pedestal with her friends? is how I read what you are asking. She finds you pedantic and 'incessant' but loves you anyway!

And don't read other people's correspondence- that's just rude. 

 

No, I don't expect to be put on a pedestal. But I think it is fair to expect not to be trashed, especially unfairly. I wasn't being pedantic. I was finding infestation that was going eat all our clothes and rugs and linens and was getting into our kids cereal. And she wasn't helping but was calling me incessant. And as I said in an early reply, I am not proud of reading her emails but if she is doing secret things with a secret "friend" when I am away on business - everyone (including impartial non-friends) I have spoken to agree that the ends justify the means. I think what she did while I was away was more than "just rude"

[lana-banana]

I can see how this would be hurtful but I think you're blowing it out of proportion---yes, they're negative in tone, but they aren't hateful or cruel or mean, and I don't see any indicator in these that she doesn't love you. But you are right to wonder why she isn't more positive about you and your relationship. How are you guys doing in terms of spending time together? What does she usually tell you about her workday? Are you intimate regularly? Do you do date nights (at home because of COVID but still)? How often do you sit and just talk, go for walks, hold hands, etc? Not that any of this in isolation is prescriptive, but it sounds like the relationship itself might need a little TLC or possibly counseling. 

[Ellener]

2 minutes ago, sp01 said:

No, I don't expect to be put on a pedestal. But I think it is fair to expect not to be trashed, especially unfairly. I wasn't being pedantic. I was finding infestation that was going eat all our clothes and rugs and linens and was getting into our kids cereal. And she wasn't helping but was calling me incessant. And as I said in an early reply, I am not proud of reading her emails but if she is doing secret things with a secret "friend" when I am away on business - everyone (including impartial non-friends) I have spoken to agree that the ends justify the means. I think what she did while I was away was more than "just rude"

She's done nothing more rude to you by telling her friends about you than you have by reading her correspondence. 

You are incessant- analysing phrases like 'big fat no' to the nth degree. Let it go man!

A 'secret friend'- if by that you mean an affair all you can do is talk to her about that, that would be a serious threat to any marriage. 

But it sounds to me from what you write like she loves you but you drive her a bit crazy. 

[sp01]

2 minutes ago, Ellener said:

She's done nothing more rude to you by telling her friends about you than you have by reading her correspondence. 

You are incessant- analysing phrases like 'big fat no' to the nth degree. Let it go man!

A 'secret friend'- if by that you mean an affair all you can do is talk to her about that, that would be a serious threat to any marriage. 

But it sounds to me from what you write like she loves you but you drive her a bit crazy. 

Unfortunately, there is only so much I can put in a post without it being super long to give greater context. I am not analysing phrases to the nth degree. Just on the face it - I think it is super obvious what it means and rather than analyse it to death I decided to come here. To give greater context, I have been asking for years to go on date nights and spend more quality time with her - and she never took me up on those attempts. She prefers to play around on facebook on her phone than talk to me. She has secret friends who are men and she won't be honest about that (she also has a history of cheating on her ex-boyfriends and being the other woman in an affair). She complains about the littlest thing like me putting Christmas decorations on Nov 28th or 29th instead of her preferred date Dec 1 (who is being pedantic?). There is absolutely nothing in my original post that I have analysed anything to the nth degree or that I am doing things that are driving her a bit crazy. What I am asking is just on the face of it without reading too much into stuff you don't know the full context and with some empathy what are the answers to my questions.

[trident_2020]

She had a secret male friend over to your house when you were away on business, she refused to disclose the details when you confronted her and you're worried about a few emails?

Me thinks you need to re-prioritize things a wee bit.

 

[sp01]

4 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

She had a secret male friend over to your house when you were away on business, she refused to disclose the details when you confronted her and you're worried about a few emails?

Me thinks you need to re-prioritize things a wee bit.

 

LOL! Yes, I know. I am taking one thing at a time. And that issue is too big and heart breaking for me to deal with right now. And it is not a few emails. There tons of the same nature. I am just trying to come to grips with what secret things she has been saying about me all these years to understand why she would even have a secret male friend at my house when I am away. I can only deal with one hurt at a time.

Edited November 24, 2020 by sp01
missed text

[trident_2020]

I think you're dealing with the wrong hurt.

 

[Alpacalia]

So this is really about the prospect that your wife is having an affair with a secret friend? 

Scratch my previous comments, you have bigger fish to fry. 😬

[Ellener]

6 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

I think you're dealing with the wrong hurt.

 

I think so too @sp01 Complaining about things which irritate in a marriage is fairly common amongst friends, and trivial, suspicion of an affair is a whole different thing.

Hope you gain the clarity you are looking for here.

[MsJayne]

It's disloyal. The emails have a condescending tone, kind of "look what I have to put up with".  A lot of women put their partners down in this way, but so do a lot of men. It's kind of a juvenile bonding exercise, something to gossip about because they have nothing more intelligent to discuss. This, coupled with her secret male friend, should make for a major discussion about the boundaries of the marriage. She seems to think you're a pain in the butt and she's the martyr who must suffer the ignominy of having a responsible husband. She needs setting straight about respect and loyalty, and secret friends, but don't be surprised if it gets twisted so that you're the bad guy snooping through her emails. 

[deepthinking]

Some people are moaners; I knew one such woman, and she was glad to have him in her life but would moan to me, plus, women communicate more than men do.

She drove me to distraction in the end;  candidly, i came to understand she had a weakness inside her, negativity.

Edited November 25, 2020 by deepthinking

[ShyViolet]

You are overreacting, over-analyzing and yes, being a bit OCD.  She didn't say anything THAT bad.  You need to take a step back, stop over-analyzing her emails to death, and focus on what is actually important.  The "secret friendship" she had with some man is something that maybe you should actually be concerned about.  Not the emails.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Your wife is way out of line, IMO, and I'd bet in the opinion of most marriage counselors.

All women do not talk smack about their husbands with their girlfriends. Most of my girlfriends would not write what your wife wrote in emails. My closest friend is married to a very wealthy man and she has told me he likes to fix things himself rather than hire help. She'd rather he hired help. But, she does not ever disparage him to me about it.

I have one friend who's in a marriage where she feels smothered. She does talk to me about it behind his back. I feel sorry for both of them. Her for feeling smothered (and I see her viewpoint) and him for being married to someone who doesn't want to be close to him and talks about it behind his back. But, she's my dear friend still.

When I was married I didn't talk to my gf's or my family about my H's faults, shortcomings or failures at all. If I ever marry again it will be the same.

Classy people uphold the reputation of their spouses when with their friends or anyone else. When you value yourself and the person you're married to you uphold the union behind the back of the other.

Same as, if you have a nice car you take care of it. If it's a piece of junk type car you treat it carelessly. If you have a nice car and treat it carelessly you soon have a piece of junk car. Same is true for marriage. You have a good one and treat it carelessly, you end up with a junk one. Have a good one, take care of it, and most likely you keep the marriage in great shape!

Edited November 25, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease

[Lotsgoingon]

"A big fat no" ... well that one is harsh, but she doesn't say you're a loser.

On you being incessant about cleaning the house to get rid of the carpet beetles, her words don't sound critical to me. Lots of couples (almost all) have one spouse is more thorough than the other, more into cleaning and straightening than the other. I don't see her as badmouthing you.

And she has to right to say you applied for an application with friends. Why is that some secret? Almost everyone talks about their spouse to friends. And that includes good stuff! 

Seems to me the problem is not these emails. The problem must be some other issue in the marriage such that you're hearing her words, hearing her voice in a way that I don't.  Perhaps you don't feel like she affirms you in the relationship? I can see why you would feel that. But that's the point, not the emails. 

Get to those deeper problems that are making you unhappy about the marriage. 

[Wiseman2]

The male friend is the problem. The other nonsense is her confiding in friends to blow off steam. 

You as well came here to blow off steam about your complaints.

You can never be the thought police or control what others confide in thier friends about.

When people snoop through other's confidential content they're bound to find something to get upset about.

The carpet bugs and house decorations etc is a ridiculous thing to focus on when you believe there may be an inappropriate relationship.

Start with marriage therapy. Clearly there's resentments and issues piling up that need to be sorted out and redirected.

[Whaatamidoing]

Although she is your wife and my circumstances differ greatly to yours, I think what you have here is too much knowledge- something that is plaguing me in my MM OW relationship.

We work together and had been going through some huge financial issues, a non paying client, I had been working my butt off to use any profit coming in to negotiate payment plans with suppliers etc etc. It was all very stressful for 12 months +. I was asked to settle a debt for a season ticket for football, we were in a position to do so and the payment was made immediately. What I had failed to be informed about was the fact that the email sent to me was one of about 8 prior to that asking for settlement from MM's friend. Anyway, he copied me into the email which had a thread attached to it. It stated that it was impossible to get any money out of the business because I treated it as though it was my own bank account. We have to bear in mind here that the debts were so bad that he could have lost his house, would have had to tell his wife, everything could have gone if I hadn't done the things I had done and more to the point, it had never happened, I did what was asked of me, no questions asked. I was hurt and felt betrayed for a long time about this.

My point being that he wrote the email to protect himself from his friend, to protect his reputation and never gave a thought about me because he thought I would never see it. I think we are all guilty of this, writing on here for instance I feel I can be open and honest but I don't necessarily know that I would want my MM to see it. (Perhaps i secretly do). She wasnt mean about you, she was just airing her opinion that she would do things differently- I think this is hurtful when you come across it but realistically it is probably healthy for her to vent to her girlfriends, if she didn't and didn't feel she could talk to you then these things might turn into much bigger deals than they are.

Hope that getting your frustration on here helped to see the problem a bit more clearly, I find that once I have calmed down, things are not as bad as they first appear.

 

[spiderowl]

I don't think your wife's comments are respectful but when frustrated with someone we all have times which are not our finest moments.  Guys get together and do this too.  I knew one guy who referred to his wife as his 'bimbo' and complained she wouldn't have sex if he didn't do the ironing once in a while.  He adored her though.  Some of it is blowing off steam; some of it is bravado.

The main issue seems to be whether your wife is disloyal to you.  Her history has you worried, not surprisingly.  What to do?  I suggest relationship counselling.  There is a big trust problem here and you have probably been worrying about this for some time.