MM Alerts me about Behavior/What Does it Mean?

[BareBones]

Brief set-up: I'm OW (I'm singe/never married) to a MM who I knew back in middle school. He's been married almost 20 years and we have ONLY been talking for the past 19 months as we initially agreed to ONLY talk until both of his children graduate highschool (will happen in 2021) as we both had a father or step-father cheat on our mothers. He expressed that BEFORE he met me he always planned to file when kids graduated, had nothing to do with me. 

He told me he had NEVER experienced the feelings he has for me EVER in any other relationship. He told me he loved me within a month or so and had never felt as emotionally connected to anyone as he did to me (we have a lot in common/history/growing up, etc.). And while he's not been miserable in his marriage, he's not felt like it was the right fit/not connected and she got pregnant and he wanted to do the right thing. Regardless, he had never cheated but had opportunities to do so- but felt compelled to be faithful given his history of his dad cheating and not wanting to hurt his kids. 

To be clear, he pursued me and I pushed against it given both our histories with cheating parents. And he wanted initially to meet up but we both agreed to wait. Now it's coming up more and more that we should meet. And honestly, I think we should because that will tell me if I should just completely walk away or continue to wait around for another year. We go from HIGHS of talking about our future to LOWS where he has to lay low because his partner knows something is amiss and we don't talk/text at all (longest was 5 weeks). And the guilt I feel even just from talking is overwhelming and I want to end it until he's legally separated. 

Recently we had been talking and have had the strongest conversations that'd we'd had in the past 9 months, but then he texted me and said he was going to have sex with his wife and wanted to be upfront and was I okay with that? It completely threw me off because I know that they have sex (we both went into this very honest about what our lives were), but it's as if he had more guilt this time because we had gotten even closer than ever. And the next two nights he checked in and asked if I was okay. But I know they had sex again because again, he told me. 

I told him I was upset as I don't need it thrown in my face (and I'm aware as we've been very open about our lives) and it's not my place to give approval for what he does/doesn't do. And BTW, he wanted me to date others as he feels guilt too that he can't be my BF yet. I told him, I would if I wanted to, I would. And I'm not in a place where I want to date but i would tell him if I did. 

In a twist, the fourth day (after the second time he said they had sex) he was all about me and talked about us meeting up before the year ended. Almost like an about face -- like I want you, I want to see if this works.

My questions are:

- Why did he tell me about/ask for my "approval" of him having sex? Was this a foreshadowing of him saying he wants to end things? Or make it known that these things happen? It was so out of the blue. 

- If so, why then the next day talk to me for 3 hours and talk in great detail about us finally meeting up? 

Thanks,

BareBones

- 

Edited November 24, 2020 by BareBones
Include more info on me

[trident_2020]

There's lots of available single guys out there who aren't having sex with their wives while telling you how deeply they feel about you.

 

 

[mark clemson]

I can't read minds, but this all sounds quite dubious to me.

Your strategy of putting it on hold until he puts his money where his mouth is and divorces makes sense to me as a logical course of action (taking your perspective). IF you truly want him, then don't make him doubt you'll be there after that. You're all in, but just want to stick to the original plan/agreement. (Not that that's particularly wise, but you don't want to make him uncertain about divorcing if that's what you really want for him to do IMO.) Being all-in could include discussion meetings with no sex.

If him asking permission to have sex with his wife bothers you, tell him to stop.

It sounds like it all may be manipulation, or have started sincerely, but now he's either anxious to make sure it's actually going to happen or has changed his mind but is trying for sex anyhow. I COULD certainly be wrong about that, but people sometimes change their minds over time.

I think that the point that you could be starting/seeking normal relationships instead of spending tons of time waiting to see whether he's for real about leaving is certainly a valid one.

[BareBones]

Thank you- I appreciate your feedback. Talking about meeting up isn’t new but this is the first time it’s seems like it would happen, action would be put in motion. And we will definitely put parameters on what will take place. 
 

I believe his question arose from care/concern as he’s an emotional guy. And I agree w/your comment on telling him what I want/don’t want and told him I don’t need to give approval nor know when he fornicates with his wife. 
 

And to be clear, we both agreed to wait to have a physical relationship, given he wants to wait until the kids are graduated. I’m not saying either of us are saints, but it wasn’t all me saying we should wait.

 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, BareBones said:

And to be clear, we both agreed to wait to have a physical relationship, given he wants to wait until the kids are graduated.

 

Why not wait until he is divorced. Seriously. 

Nothing would turn me off more than a married man who is pursuing me with words of love while telling me that he is having sex with his wife. This is not a man that I want to date. 

I can appreciate that it is flattering - he is pursuing you, telling you that he has NEVER had feelings like he has for you in any other relationship, and he has known you since middle school so feels like this is fated in the stars... but honestly, these are big red flags. 

I’m not going to say that he didn’t marry young and hasn’t been utterly miserable in his marriage. I’m not going to say he that he won’t do as he has suggested and divorce to start a relationship with you. Anything is possible. But, I think you are being naive if you think his kids are going to magically be more accepting of the divorce/new relationship after they graduate. His decision to wait has everything to do with his own self interest, not the best interest of his family. Because, if he had their best interest in mind... he would not be sneaking around and communicating in this way with another woman. You are naive if you are not very cautious with a man who can do this to not just one, but two women. Be careful here. 

Edited November 24, 2020 by BaileyB

[BareBones]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Why not wait until he is divorced. Seriously.

Sorry — to be clear, we would wait to be together physically/until he separated and that would be when the kids have graduated. And I agree with you — I think he should do it now but he wants the kids to be done with high school before he divorces.

Again, not my decision to make. My decision to make is whether or not to cut ties until the divorce is final or keep communication open. 

[BaileyB]

Just keep in mind, separated does not equal divorced. Separated is another word for “still married.” 

Not to be a downer, but this site has seen many women who built relationships with men who were married or separated only to have this man decide to return home to his family. Some of these women dated, lived with, or even bought a home with the man - only for him to decide that he wanted to return home to his family. Some have tried to keep their affair partner, after returning home. Others have ended the relationship. The truth is, it’s hard for a man to end a long term marriage. The financial cost of divorce is high. The emotional cost of divorce is high - it’s hard to hurt the people that you love. There is a lot of guilt. Your guy has already told you that he doesn’t want to be seen as the bad guy to his children. If they don’t respond well to the idea of divorce/new relationship - you have to weigh the risk that he will want to return home. You will live with this fear for years. Women often underestimate this risk, because he says so many wonderful words of love and talks so often of a future together... but, divorce is hard and affairs/new relationships make it even harder for everyone involved. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by BaileyB

[BaileyB]

30 minutes ago, BareBones said:

My decision to make is whether or not to cut ties until the divorce is final or keep communication open. 

That seems like a very wise decision to make. This relationship likely has a far greater chance of going the distance if he comes back to you, with signed divorce papers in hand. He has a lot that he needs to get in order - his legal situation, his relationship with his wife, his finances, his relationship with his children, his living situation. If he is planning to leave his marriage, it sounds like he is building a bridge with you. But, he needs to stand on his own two feet. You are t doing him any favours if you enable him to avoid the hard reality of divorce - he needs to deal with the end of his marriage and get his house in order, as they say. If it’s truly meant to be, he will come back to you from a position of strength - divorceD, financially stable, emotionally stable, and ready to put the work in to build a new relationship. 

[BareBones]

Thank you - I appreciate your insight. And believe me, I'm an overthinker times a million, so I've thought about all of this A LOT. And I check in to confirm he still wants "end game" because the minute there's any hesitation, I"m out. And I get it, I understand what can/can't happen. I'm here because I'm thinking more and more about it especially with the odd conversation we had last week. 

And I will say, he was always planning to divorce way before he met me. And one of my other options is to stop communication (coming up soon) before he actually files (6-12 months beforehand) so we don't have "us" looming over it. I was not involved in his decision to divorce, that was made years ago.  And if our bond is as strong as we believe, then it will still be there after all is said and done. 

[BareBones]

1 minute ago, BaileyB said:

That seems like a very wise decision to make. This relationship likely has a far greater chance of going the distance if he comes back to you, with signed divorce papers in hand. He has a lot that he needs to get in order - his legal situation, his relationship with his wife, his finances, his relationship with his children, his living situation. If he is planning to leave his marriage, it sounds like he is building a bridge with you. But, he needs to stand on his own two feet. You are t doing him any favours if you enable him to avoid the hard reality of divorce - he needs to deal with the end of his marriage and get his house in order, as they say. If it’s truly meant to be, he will come back to you from a position of strength - divorceD, financially stable, emotionally stable, and ready to put the work in to build a new relationship. 

Great minds think alike - exactly what I just posted. It's true - if we are meant to be, we will be. And if we REALLY love each other and this isn't just infatuation or BS, we will be better for it in the long run. 

Okay, y'all are making me feel better about my decision making process. I've read a LOT of judgment on this site, but also great insight. I appreciate all the helpful words. 

[EvangelineVincent]

He is looking out for HIMSELF only. 
 

That’s why he doesn’t want to physically cheat on his wife, because then he’d be screwed in the divorce if he was caught.

Two, he wants to wait until the kids are out of high school aka until they are 18 aka he doesn’t feel like paying child support.

In the meantime he screws his wife and keeps you wrapped around his finger.

If he can lie, cheat and manipulate his wife he is a prize to no one. 
 

Let him go, if you mattered to him at all, you’d know it because he’d have been honest with his wife about his feelings for someone else and left.

Also, I don’t actually think he’d leave his wife, he is just wanting an emotional affair and attention from another woman. However, if he truly did want to leave his wife only after the kids turned 18 he’d be a scumbag, wasting her time, youth, best years of her life on him, when he had planned to leave her all along. She could have met someone who loved her and appreciated her the way she deserves but because of his selfish behavior she didn’t. 

[Zona]

So you are both doing what your father and step father did. A deep emotional attachment that is hidden from a spouse is an affair. He is lying to his wife every day.

It sounds like you are doing mental gymnastics to convince yourselves that you are not cheating, but you are. It's too bad that you two didn't break the cycle.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Zona

[ExpatInItaly]

I think he gets off on making you jealous, OP. 

He likes knowing two women want him, and he's using it to fluff up his ego. 

Ugh.