ZA Dater Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Not even too sure if this could be described as a relationship idea but nonetheless. I have never managed to date anyone I like, just never connect with anyone I like or just am never good enough for them. Instead I am attractive to nobody I like. Over the years the ever increasing loneliness and hopelessness of this have lead me along a path of helping people in any way I can, I am good enough to help people apparently just not good enough to date. I have never until now considered going along with one of these helping type scenarios and turning into a very casual informal dating scenario. There are LOTS of downsides here but I just look around me and I have no prospects of a normal relationship, absolutely none whereas a helping transaction type relationship means I have some options. The background to this is I am in a particularly bad space at the moment, my judgement is pretty impaired for various reasons connected to the total hopelessness I feel for life overall. I have worked for years and years and frankly have never felt successful at any of it. Each day is crisis after crisis, very little positive, mostly impossible tasks and there is never any pat on the back, this cycle just goes on and on all the while I look around me, life passing me by. My conclusion really is just about the only thing I have of any importance is my family, they keep me going. I tried to work life to a plan, none of which has worked, absolutely not one bit of it. I then look at this sort of relationship, maybe I can at least matter to someone in some way, get some sort of companionship even if its mostly fake, its about the only opportunity i have of experiencing some sort of "caring" relationship. Anyone gone down this sort of road before and yeah I guess it ultimately ends in disaster but any insight would be valuable to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Yes. Many have gone down that road. Except it isn’t called an “alternate relationship“. It is what is commonly referred to as orbiting/friend zone. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 As apparently none of the women you like or find attractive have wanted to date you or be your friend then you are going to have to try to make friends with those who you don't like or who you don't find attractive. Can you do that? 52 minutes ago, ZA Dater said: Instead I am attractive to nobody I like. Maybe being in the company of someone who does actually like you, may give you a bit of a break from all the constant negativity. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 46 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: Yes. Many have gone down that road. Except it isn’t called an “alternate relationship“. It is what is commonly referred to as orbiting/friend zone. I think he’s taking about sugar daddy / sugar baby relationship? @ZA Dater can you clarify what you mean by alternative relationship? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SumGuy Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 That was my thought, a sugar daddy/baby type relationship. Is that what you are referring to ZAdater? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 Ohhhhh. Sugar baby/daddy relationships Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 From memory there were some that were interested in you and a few of them sounded quite nice but you weren't attracted to them or whatever, Wouldn't it be better to try spending more time with someone like that and giving that a chance . At least she'd be truly interested and should care if she really is, things could evolve you never know. Better than being a used up doormat for some extra good looking type that really couldn't give two shyts about you. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Ellener Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 hours ago, ZA Dater said: Each day is crisis after crisis, very little positive, mostly impossible tasks and there is never any pat on the back, this cycle just goes on and on all the while I look around me, life passing me by. My conclusion really is just about the only thing I have of any importance is my family, they keep me going. I tried to work life to a plan, none of which has worked, absolutely not one bit of it. First off, give yourself a pat on the back...I have had a bad year this year and listened to a lot of motivational stuff over the summer to try and change my 'inner self-talk' and accept being alone and reward myself for the little achievements climbing out of the bleak place I was falling deeper into... Your family love and appreciate you. That's a lot. My 'vision board' plan for 2020 sits on the shelf here, nothing on it worked out, and even my health deteriorated significantly...Ijust pulled out the blank card for my 2021 version and realised there will be a lot of question marks and gaps for now. I started a 'holiday hangout thread' in the water cooler section. One man who was struggling with his life went off and created a whole new life for himself, I posted one of the videos he made about living alone and making it count. You seem very pleasant to me, just be yourself. Don't overthink it or have too many preconceptions about relationships. You can be kind if that's who you are without being used or hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chilli said: Better than being a used up doormat for some extra good looking type that really couldn't give two shyts about you. Yes, better according to who though? My understanding is he’s not looking for a nice girl he does not find attractive. He wants the experience of dating a woman he finds attractive and provided he doesn’t care if he pays for the experience... well, that’s why those arrangements exist. Edited November 27, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 4 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: Yes. Many have gone down that road. Except it isn’t called an “alternate relationship“. It is what is commonly referred to as orbiting/friend zone. It also might be called "sugar daddy." Or, with a different power dynamic, "sexual coercion." OP. If you want to "help people in any way you can," that is noble. If you are thinking about "helping people" and then somehow morphing that into a scenario where the person you helped is going to feel obligated to have sex with you ... that's low. It also doesn't mean that they are interested in you. Why not limit your "help" to situations that will not have sexual strings attached. Help only charities or other men. If you want an exchange of money or services for sex, that can easily be arranged. It's commerce, not "helping." 2 Link to post Share on other sites
basil67 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 I thought ZA was talking about getting benefits from those he’s helped. ZA, I assume I’m wrong...can you clarify? Link to post Share on other sites
Wiseman2 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 (edited) Sorry to hear that. Being this severely chronically depressed may make it impossible to have any type of relationship no matter how you wish to label it. Edited November 28, 2020 by Wiseman2 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 15 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: Yes, better according to who though? My understanding is he’s not looking for a nice girl he does not find attractive. He wants the experience of dating a woman he finds attractive and provided he doesn’t care if he pays for the experience... well, that’s why those arrangements exist. The problem is it’s not actually what he wants. He wants to feel worthy of being loved which to him means women he’s attracted to are also attracted to him. If he’s paying, it defeats the purpose. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 8 hours ago, basil67 said: I thought ZA was talking about getting benefits from those he’s helped. ZA, I assume I’m wrong...can you clarify? Not at all I need to clarify that the only benefit for me would be helping someone, maybe have coffee or lunch with them. Nothing else really. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 19 hours ago, Chilli said: From memory there were some that were interested in you and a few of them sounded quite nice but you weren't attracted to them or whatever, Wouldn't it be better to try spending more time with someone like that and giving that a chance . At least she'd be truly interested and should care if she really is, things could evolve you never know. Better than being a used up doormat for some extra good looking type that really couldn't give two shyts about you. The downside of that is just huge for me. I have chatted with someone I met up with last year for 3 months on and off but the reality is she is alright I suppose but I just feel nothing. If I do not chat to her for a week it does not make any difference to me. Some here have actually hit the nail on the head, I simply want someone I like to actually like me too. Trying to force myself to like someone defeats the object. What I am essentially asking with this thread, I like to help people at times because I do and I feel good about helping them and for once they actually do engage with me on some sort of level. I never enjoy the end of the year, its a joyless experience for me because inevitably I have no work to do and few friends either so I occupy my time working out which I do enjoy but then I go out and see all these couples, I hear about my friends latest conquests and that void that is always there just seems bigger. I have found someone who is really in a bad space in life, life has not been kind to her and yes I can help her a bit, no expectations from me but she is just thankful for the help. I do not expect people to understand this but when you have been ignored by people virtually your entire life, overlooked by anyone you found attractive, rejected when you did bother to try its is NICE to actually get some sort of attention. This is actually a big problem because I need to differentiate interest from common friendliness which is hard to do so I always just go for the latter as its actually safer and the wiser option considering my pathetic dating outcomes. Wheezy I think has pointed out a few times the need to actually try clean the slate so to speak and believe it or not I do try but every time I just find the same impediments and the same issues return. Someone else I think it was Elaine once pointed that over time one becomes either more inclined to settle or more stubborn minded, I think I would find it easier to settle if just once I actually had the sort of dating experience I want. People ask me about my dating life often and of late my answer is I simply cannot be bothered. I am focusing on things which do make me feel good about being me its just unfortunate nothing about dating makes me feel good, quite the opposite. Whereas sitting and helping a co worker does make me feel good because the get to improve and I get to feel like I make a difference. Most of you will note I never put the word "love" in any of my posts, simply because I am sceptical about the concept, I have met people where I loved everything about them, not many but some but it would seem the very concept of love is rooted in "well how much can I ignore and overlook". The bottom line is really I tend to care about people who simply do not care about me. At least with someone like this the person "cares" to the extent that I can help them, I am not so stupid to think any of this is genuine but I have frankly reached the point where a fake reality is preferable to a unpleasant reality. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted November 28, 2020 Author Share Posted November 28, 2020 21 hours ago, elaine567 said: As apparently none of the women you like or find attractive have wanted to date you or be your friend then you are going to have to try to make friends with those who you don't like or who you don't find attractive. Can you do that? Maybe being in the company of someone who does actually like you, may give you a bit of a break from all the constant negativity. It does not help if I am not attracted to them. All that happens then is it becomes a business meeting and I turn it into one, offer up nothing about myself, nothing about my feelings and find a topic to have a conversation around which has effectively nothing to with me as a person. I am starting to look at things in terms of "what possible advantage is this" and typically the very few people who do find me attractive actually would not contribute anything but the same is true of the people I like, I'd contribute nothing conventional to their lives either. I have sat with countless pages and written things down what I could offer and when I then put this against the dates I have been on and what I see around me its little wonder (unattractive looks aside) I did not get anywhere. All I did was underestimate the fact that people feel comfortable conforming, they do not want a guy who could not care about conforming. This is why these "use" situations where I have a particular use for someone have a bit more appeal to me now because my role in their life is very clearly defined, like it is with K, I am a friend she sees every few weeks, we have breakfast or lunch and there is no communication between these "events" with this definition its usually about me being useful for a particular objective, be it the guy who is phoned when people want an honest opinion, the guy to help with this and that. The part I get wrong is I completely misread the market, I rock up with the same attributes which are simply not in demand or wanted then I mope when nobody wants to buy. SO I can sit and run someones finances and get very specific attention related to one sphere of life which gives me a use which I do not have when I go sit having coffee with someone off bumble or tinder. I feel good about actually being of use to someone. So effectively all I am looking to do here is just be that superficial "help". At least then I will feel like i have some sort of worth. There are very few moments in my life where I have really had friends, I wonder through life pretty much alone, sure there are people around me but I never really get the sense they care to any great degree. I have made lots of mistakes, poor ideology, incorrect assumptions and sure my viewpoint might be wrong on much that is dating but all those viewpoints were built piece by piece by experience by experience so its not a case of just throwing them away because those experiences remain. Long ago I let go of the idea of being marketable because my experiences told me I was not marketable. From a human point of view it is hardwired into us to find companionship and for me I wish I could simply let go of this idea completely but no matter what it does not go away, my assumption is everyone else finds, at least once someone that really like who really likes them back. I can be liked for the help I provide, again this is me trying to plaster over a hole using a piece of paper. I am going to hobby related events but even there I do not really connect with people on any level at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted November 28, 2020 Share Posted November 28, 2020 Yeah fair enough , and no l wasn't saying someone like that that you feel nothing for , waste of time. Anyway , you know what you'd like and what your thinking would work for you , just try to go with that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Miss Spider Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 8 hours ago, ZA Dater said: I am going to hobby related events but even there I do not really connect with people on any level at all. I feel you, bro. You just are a little bit picky. OK you’re a lot picky. But you know what they say. Better to be picky early. It’s a lot easier to never have a relationship than it is to leave an unfulfilling relationship. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 18 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said: I feel you, bro. You just are a little bit picky. OK you’re a lot picky. But you know what they say. Better to be picky early. It’s a lot easier to never have a relationship than it is to leave an unfulfilling relationship. But if you’re so picky that you literally never even get a second date and you’re 37 years old, it’s likely that the pickiness is a defense mechanism. If you can’t ever find someone to form a meaningful relationship with, then you can’t get hurt. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Chilli Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 l think he'd go for it if she actually liked him back. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Chilli said: l think he'd go for it if she actually liked him back. Yes maybe, but is he deliberately choosing and pining after women who he knows will never like him back or are already taken or who are crushing on other guys... ie unavailable women. Two groups. Women who he does not find attractive, and women who do not find him attractive. Black and white. Catch 22. Best avoid both and he never gets hurt. Link to post Share on other sites
Fletch Lives Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Never settle 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 21 hours ago, Weezy1973 said: But if you’re so picky that you literally never even get a second date and you’re 37 years old, it’s likely that the pickiness is a defense mechanism. If you can’t ever find someone to form a meaningful relationship with, then you can’t get hurt. I would not say I am any more picky than most. Its just the combination of things I find attractive are quite hard to find and when I do find it, well I am then forced to be the guy who sits on the sidelines and need to step up and take a penalty which inevitably I mess up in some way or other. A good example of this was a fairly recent interaction, her 35 yo, physically attractive and the text conversation was quite good and then "maybe we should go for a drink" , I side stepped that because it would be the same old "well I don't drink because I am trying to work on my fitness" and she would immediately loose all form of interest. That's the biggest problem I have, conforming. A good example few things are less appealing to me sitting among a group who is just drinking and talking BS, all the while I sit there not drinking. Question for the ladies would this be a deal breaker for you? Sure, I can sit and converse with people but again humour is not something I have a lot of so effectively what I do with dating is find myself attracted to the usually opposite of myself because confident people bring out the confident person in me. Here I can help someone out and they can sit and have dinner, lunch, coffee with them and I can actually spend time with someone on terms which would actually work for me. They could go partying and drinking and I would not care. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 hours ago, Chilli said: l think he'd go for it if she actually liked him back. Exactly I put in all the effort all of the time and for what really, I might just as well find some sort of mutually beneficial arrangement because at least then the scales would be better balanced. The truth of the matter is nobody I ever liked has liked me back. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 9 hours ago, elaine567 said: Yes maybe, but is he deliberately choosing and pining after women who he knows will never like him back or are already taken or who are crushing on other guys... ie unavailable women. Two groups. Women who he does not find attractive, and women who do not find him attractive. Black and white. Catch 22. Best avoid both and he never gets hurt. Not on purpose no. Both groups are hardly full of people either. In most respects I chase ideals, I know there is a better side of me, I know I can be confident so I do not see much reason, on paper at least I am any less able to date the people I find attractive. Until I start writing down the issues. I have actually be fundamentally damaged by rejection, its made me rather cold and emotionless when it comes to dating. It also comes down the fact that very few people are actually nice, kindness is seldom reciprocated so add that all together and what you arrive at is a very jaded person. Good example, matched with someone who had most of the attributes I liked but the conversation just died, despite having lots of common interests. This year I might go on holiday on my own for a few days, I probably wont speak to anyone in days but maybe I should try this. Link to post Share on other sites
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