Does this sound like an affair

[Cocolemon]

Husband has a female friend from work for 14 years now, they are close, but he rarely speaks about her to me. I only know about her because we ran into her at the grocery store once and she came up to him and gave him a hug. This was years back, but by then they had worked together for quite some time.

Anyways, am worried because she’s very bubbly and seems flirty, plus she’s attractive, long dark red hair, big emerald green eyes, and chubby like how he likes. 

There have been times when she’s invited my husband to her kids birthday parties and Halloween parties and we’ve both gone, not sure if a person having an affair invite their affair partner to come around her husband and family with his wife ? 
 

There was an instance though where she invited him to a party and I was getting off work soon so I told him to wait for me that I’d go to, he seemed bummed I suggested it and we argued about it, I ended up telling him he could go if he wanted and he ended up not going but sulked the rest of the day.

She’s married with 3 kids and seems to get on well with her husband from what she posts on her social media. She does have co workers she’s friends with on there so it seems strange to be so close to my husband at work when others can see and she’s got them on her social media... they could easily tell her husband something. My husband as well has social media but he hardly posts.
 

But there’s sketchy stuff, for one, how they look at each other when talking and how close they stand, with less than a forearm of space between them. The first time I saw her at the store she came up to him I was not by his side, I was grabbing snacks and looked from afar the interaction. 
 

I decided to do some snooping because from personal experience cheaters never own up to having an affair. So I go by their work on a day that’s a holiday when neither of them were there, just this past week, and people at work that were there said they are very close at work, getting breaks together, talking closely, being physical (hugs, back rubs) and they work on office assignments together when they could ask anyone else for help too. Upon leaving the office I do see other people there seem to be close as well, so not sure if this is how they roll here or what.

Would an affair go on for 14 years? If so, why have kids with someone else ? Why invite affair partner and wife to personal events meant for friends and family ? Why post on social media your life at home when your friends with people at work who know something is up, they could easily tell your spouse.

Not sure what to think, when I bring my concerns to him he tells me they are only friends, they’ve known each other a long time so theirs a great liking there, but that he has his family and she has her family. I’ve continued bringing it up and now he is just upset with me. Don’t know what to do. 

[Atwood]

I know that some stuff is ringing alarm bells here (back rubs from colleagues at work? I would not be pleased). 

However, if you have no evidence there's no way to tell. Do you trust your husband, or is there something that makes you think he would cheat on you? Believing your spouse is likely to cheat on you is the first sign of an issue. 

If there's part of you that thinks he is capable of cheating on you or that he likely could be, he's not going to admit to anything without evidence it seems. It's wrong to go snooping in his private business/accounts etc. but if cheating is a dealbreaker for you - get solid evidence before you accuse/use it as a reason to divorce. Because without that, they can deny it and make you question everything. Real, solid evidence can't be denied. 

This is hard because the seed of doubt has been planted and you will likely have to wait a while and watch carefully for signs that are unambiguous. However, it could just be that your husband has a really great friend. They might care about each other very much and be supportive of each other, but that doesn't mean they're having an affair. 

However, I would say that just because your husband says "well we're just friends" doesn't mean you can't have a talk about boundaries and what makes you uncomfortable. There's women I know my partner is just friends with, and that's all they will ever be, but that doesn't mean I have to be okay with them giving him shoulder rubs at work, you know? Could you have a chat about the things that specifically make you uncomfortable and ask him to set some boundaries in respect of your marriage? Even if he hasn't cheated, it's still not appropriate if he's enjoying the one-on-one female adoration he's getting from her. It's all about boundaries/appropriacy and not just about intent. If he doesn't want to cheat, but she does (and he knows about it) that's another situation where you husband should be setting appropriate boundaries with her instead of lapping up the attention. 

 

Some people are cool with the whole "this is my work-wife/work-husband" thing , but you don't have to be. If he refuses to hear your concerns or worries, and won't even talk about what's appropriate in the bounds of your relationship, that's a concern because he's then not putting your needs first. If he doesn't understand, try asking him how he would feel if you had a relationship like that with a coworker and continued it despite his requests for you to put boundaries in place. He would want the same consideration, would he not? 

 

I'm very sorry for what you're going through. It's tortorous and upsetting when you have suspicions like this. If you don't think your partner would do this or there appears to be no cheating, consider therapy or couples therapy. It can help with the feelings that cause these worries, and you will trust him more fully again, if he's trustworthy. 

[Cocolemon]

17 minutes ago, Atwood said:

I know that some stuff is ringing alarm bells here (back rubs from colleagues at work? I would not be pleased). 

However, if you have no evidence there's no way to tell. Do you trust your husband, or is there something that makes you think he would cheat on you? Believing your spouse is likely to cheat on you is the first sign of an issue. 

If there's part of you that thinks he is capable of cheating on you or that he likely could be, he's not going to admit to anything without evidence it seems. It's wrong to go snooping in his private business/accounts etc. but if cheating is a dealbreaker for you - get solid evidence before you accuse/use it as a reason to divorce. Because without that, they can deny it and make you question everything. Real, solid evidence can't be denied. 

This is hard because the seed of doubt has been planted and you will likely have to wait a while and watch carefully for signs that are unambiguous. However, it could just be that your husband has a really great friend. They might care about each other very much and be supportive of each other, but that doesn't mean they're having an affair. 

However, I would say that just because your husband says "well we're just friends" doesn't mean you can't have a talk about boundaries and what makes you uncomfortable. There's women I know my partner is just friends with, and that's all they will ever be, but that doesn't mean I have to be okay with them giving him shoulder rubs at work, you know? Could you have a chat about the things that specifically make you uncomfortable and ask him to set some boundaries in respect of your marriage? Even if he hasn't cheated, it's still not appropriate if he's enjoying the one-on-one female adoration he's getting from her. It's all about boundaries/appropriacy and not just about intent. If he doesn't want to cheat, but she does (and he knows about it) that's another situation where you husband should be setting appropriate boundaries with her instead of lapping up the attention. 

 

Some people are cool with the whole "this is my work-wife/work-husband" thing , but you don't have to be. If he refuses to hear your concerns or worries, and won't even talk about what's appropriate in the bounds of your relationship, that's a concern because he's then not putting your needs first. If he doesn't understand, try asking him how he would feel if you had a relationship like that with a coworker and continued it despite his requests for you to put boundaries in place. He would want the same consideration, would he not? 

 

I'm very sorry for what you're going through. It's tortorous and upsetting when you have suspicions like this. If you don't think your partner would do this or there appears to be no cheating, consider therapy or couples therapy. It can help with the feelings that cause these worries, and you will trust him more fully again, if he's trustworthy. 

We had been planning on adopting his sister’s child too. Now am not sure what am going to do.

Thanks for your input, I’ll talk to him about boundaries.

[Fletch Lives]

49 minutes ago, Cocolemon said:

There have been times when she’s invited my husband to her kids birthday parties and Halloween parties and we’ve both gone, not sure if a person having an affair invite their affair partner to come around her husband and family with his wife ? 

 

It's not likely he's cheating. Cheaters usually try to hide the other woman, they don't want you to know about her.

 

 

Good post by Atwood.... if he's doing things that make you jelous, that's a legitimate thing, he needs to stop it.

[Milly May June]

If they have worked for 14 years they have naturally developed some form friendship. But affair? I does not sound like it. Talk to your husband about boundries with the other women. Would he be ok with another man giving you back rubs? 

[mark clemson]

Seems like a lot of smoke for there to be no fire. Still possible, but I wouldn't just brush this off.

Particularly if there is no intimate contact, defining whether something is an affair and/or "emotional affair" is in partly "in the eye of the beholder" in this case the beholder being the spouse.

If YOU consider spending all this apparent time together, hugs, and backrubs to be a form of affair, then I think that's justifiable. If you think it's just a violation of boundaries that doesn't mean TOO much, that's reasonable as well.

My personal philosophy is that a spouse should have the "right" to ask that a specific friendship (that threatens the marriage) be ended. One can always find other friends. That can be hard to enforce in a work context, unfortunately.

I strongly suspect that there is at least some emotional connection to this friend and that there will be substantial push back if you ask him to end the "friendship". I think that will be telling. Sure LT friends are rare and to a certain extent precious in one's life. However, as a spouse, your sense of emotional security should be "worth" more than this friendship, for the sake of the health of your marriage. You may need to explain that to him very directly, as men relate best to direct communication.

It's nice you know some of the folks at his work, as you MAY need to keep further tabs on this.

[Atwood]

56 minutes ago, Cocolemon said:

We had been planning on adopting his sister’s child too. Now am not sure what am going to do.

Thanks for your input, I’ll talk to him about boundaries.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to explain that the adoption is going on hold if you're not feeling respected by your husband and his interactions with his friend/or lack of willingness to support you and talk through your concerns. 

[Cocolemon]

We talked today a lot, I said at this time I can’t adopt his niece because I don’t feel secure in the relationship. He stayed quiet then said ok.

He tries to avoid conflict a lot. So when I got upset and accused him of being with her he stayed quiet and just looks down at the floor, he said no, that he likes her and nothing is going on they are friends and if he is going to be accused of having an affair, that he may as well have done it and he says she has pressed herself against him, but that she’s like that with other men as well, she’s a flirt he said.

 He continues to say they are friends and nothing more, but today I find out through a coworker that she is possessive of him at work if she sees him speaking to another woman she’ll take him away from the conversation or if she’s talking to him and others join in she tends to leave, as in she is really only interested in speaking with him alone. She has other friends at work but the rest are females, and she’s flirty with other guys at work but she’s not so interested the way she is with him. Now am not sure what to do. 
 

Does it sound like an affair ? She has male friends outside of work that she is close with, can’t tell if this is me being paranoid or something more.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Cocolemon

[ExpatInItaly]

I actually don't think this is just an innocent friendship, but it doesn't appear to be an affair. Yet. 

It seems clear they have mutual crushes on each other. His strange denial of the affair would raise my eyebrow as well. If he's going to be accused of cheating, he might as well have done it? 

He's looking for justifications to proceed at this point. 

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, Cocolemon said:

 I said at this time I can’t adopt his niece because I don’t feel secure in the relationship. 

Are there other marital conflicts besides his work friend and thier over friendliness?

You seem to vacillate between somethings not right and maybe it's my imagination.

Overall there seems to be a communication breakdown.

Perhaps a marriage therapist could get you two started on unpacking and sorting out these issues and on the road to better, clearer boundaries and communication.

 

[elaine567]

You need evidence but unfortunately you made the mistake of alerting him to your suspicions without solid proof.
Now he knows you are watching, so if he is in an affair he is going to be extremely careful and take it all underground.
 

[elaine567]

16 hours ago, mark clemson said:

It's nice you know some of the folks at his work, as you MAY need to keep further tabs on this.

Can she trust them to tell her the truth?
They are her husband's and this other woman's co-workers and friends...
Will they snitch on their colleagues? 
What is in it for them?

[Wiseman2]

Once you feel the need to police your spouse, it's time for marriage therapy. You'll be confused by many conspiracy theories, but a trained professional will sort out what's what without a tinfoil hat.

[elaine567]

The therapist cannot give her the answer to the question, IS he cheating?
If he is conflict avoidant as the OP states, he will lie and lie and lie to save his skin...
Marriage therapy tends to try to save the marriage and BSs if indeed she is a BS, tend to get a raw deal as the "affair" gets rug swept in order to save the marriage... 

[Cocolemon]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Can she trust them to tell her the truth?
They are her husband's and this other woman's co-workers and friends...
Will they snitch on their colleagues? 
What is in it for them?

They’ve told me how close they are at work, I think they are telling the truth. Also, if they had been caught red handed they’d have been fired. So all they have is a suspicion. When I asked around they said, they don’t know.

 

[Cocolemon]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are there other marital conflicts besides his work friend and thier over friendliness?

You seem to vacillate between somethings not right and maybe it's my imagination.

Overall there seems to be a communication breakdown.

Perhaps a marriage therapist could get you two started on unpacking and sorting out these issues and on the road to better, clearer boundaries and communication.

 

A marriage therapist won’t give me the answers I need of “is he cheating outright”

Other than this close friendship we don’t argue about anything.

Except issues with his sister who needs to constantly be bailed out of jail, she’s a drug user and he is trying to adopt her daughter, that’s a whole separate issue. But even about that, it’s his family and I stay clear of arguments about his family. 

[Cocolemon]

3 hours ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I actually don't think this is just an innocent friendship, but it doesn't appear to be an affair. Yet. 

It seems clear they have mutual crushes on each other. His strange denial of the affair would raise my eyebrow as well. If he's going to be accused of cheating, he might as well have done it? 

He's looking for justifications to proceed at this point. 

This was odd to me too, I had been arguing with him and said some things I probably shouldn’t have and he tells me he didn’t cheat but if he’s going to be accused of it, he may as well have done it

Odd response for sure.

[Cocolemon]

Is it an admission of an affair when he said “ if am going to be accused of cheating I may as well have” as in I may as well have gotten the pleasure of doing what am accused of.

He does admit she’s attractive when I made the comment he agreed, so there’s sexual interest here. 
 

Not sure if that was his admission to it. I had been pushing for an answer and in anger he burst out that 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Cocolemon said:

A marriage therapist won’t give me the answers I need of “is he cheating outright”

Neither will he. however if a trained profession gets you two to communicate better, you may find out a lot more that all the tinfoil hat memes out there about (illegally) putting trackers and tracers on devices vehicles etc. 

Listen if their friendship, emotional affair or whatever you think this is bothers you, you need to be able to talk in a professional setting and get the cards on the table.

Tiptoeing around (like you are with Huge issues like adopting his niece, troubled family etc.) won't help you either way. Seething and smoldering is not helping you distinguish if his situation with her is inappropriate or if it's a side issue to avoid real issues or if it's jealousy or poor boundaries or whatever.

Bottom line. It bothers you and it's going in one ear and out the other with him. Real or imagined? You'll only find out with Open Honest Communication. Besides running to infidelity sites doesn't give him the message that there is a Real problem the way that saying you want marriage therapy does.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Wiseman2

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Can she trust them to tell her the truth?

A fair question. I think she feels comfortable talking to them + apparently they've been at least reasonably forthcoming so far as OP has responded above. I think she may have better insight than most whose partners MAY be having a workplace affair.

[elaine567]

If having an "at work" affair is a sackable offence where they work, then I guess  they are only doing in public what they know they can get away with, without being reported by their work colleagues..  They would be pretty stupid to make a big show of it.
As it is, it looks pretty cosy, but has not crossed the line into anything they could get into trouble for.
That is in public though, in private it may be a completely different story.

[mark clemson]

^^ all good points, IMO. They seem to be skirting the line pretty close even in public. That MAY be all there is to it - always hard to know...

[Cocolemon]

Should this be something I tell her husband about ? I mean she is being inappropriate with another man behind his back. Maybe that will put an end to their “friendship”. 
 

I will tell him what I know and let him deal with it. I think my husband and her are making a fool out of both her husband and me.

[Cocolemon]

He has told me today that his niece is coming to live with us because his sister can no longer be trusted to look out for her daughter, I’ve put aside my feelings of the marriage for this. We haven’t argued about it anymore. I just want to tell her husband so he is aware of her behavior. 

[ExpatInItaly]

On 12/1/2020 at 1:42 PM, Cocolemon said:

Is it an admission of an affair when he said “ if am going to be accused of cheating I may as well have” as in I may as well have gotten the pleasure of doing what am accused of.

Not necessarily, no. 

But it sure sounds like he's trying to give himself permission to make a move on her.