do I really have to warn a guy? and is this warning enough?

[grays]

Ok, first of all I believe it’s totally legit to invite someone over without the intention of having sex with them or without deciding whether you want to have sex with them.  My two best women friends are telling me I’m wrong about that, so while I reserve the right to believe what I believe, I’m also trying to avoid trouble.

This guy that used to be a FWB but who I haven’t seen since for about three years started texting me daily a couple weeks ago.  I had always liked him and thought he was a good guy, but at the time I just wasn’t looking for a relationship and I don’t think he was either.  Now I am.  I’m not at all sure if I want a relationship w this guy, but who knows, maybe...

So I sent him this text:

”Do you wanna come over for a bit?  I gotta warn you I’m a lot more serious of a person than I was when we hung out before.  When I met you I was pretty fresh out of my marriage and I just wanted to have fun.  Of course everyone wants to have fun, but if I sleep with someone it’s gonna bc because I’ve gotten to know them a bit and feel like they’re gonna be a positive in my life beyond sex.  I’m not saying this is gonna be an interview for the position of boyfriend.  I want a boyfriend eventually but I need friends, too.  I just didn’t want you to come over here and get surprised.”

I sent a copy of it to my friend to say, hey, look, I’m trying what you thought I should do.  She said it wasn’t direct enough.  What I need to do is say literally, “I am not going to have sex with you tonight.”  Really???  I just cannot do that.  If a guy invited me over and said “but I’m not going to have sex with you,” I’d find that pretty abrasive.  I just cannot see rejecting a possible future request for sex.  What I wrote was already way out of my comfort zone.  

 

[Ellener]

I think you probably scared off all but the most brave! but honestly it's perfectly okay to invite him over and say 'but don't expect sex' which may or may not happen. 

I say that because you already know him, I would not recommend such a bold approach with a stranger because there is a risk of being attacked inviting a stranger over.

Sounds like you are unsure what you want right now?

 

 

 

 

[snowboy91]

Inviting someone of the opposite sex over could have connotations depending on what your relationship is like. If it's been purely friendship to date, then expect nothing. If you have a history of sex like you describe, then he may well have the expectation that sex will happen. If you've just started dating where sex is assumed at some point, then expect him to want it.

I'm a bit confused of what your expectations are. Do you want sex with him or not? If we go with the assumption that you do want it, but only if you're not being used only for sex, I don't think you're going to have that issue with a guy you've known for some time. The relationship will probably go the way it will (positive or otherwise) regardless of whether there is sex or not.

You could also say outright that sex isn't going to happen if you want to quash expectations. If you feel like it in the moment, then you could go for it and overturn the "no", but then that sets up the idea that "no" could mean "yes"... which is problematic in itself.

[grays]

29 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Sounds like you are unsure what you want right now?

Im pretty sure that I want a true relationship, like one man/one woman, part of each other’s lives, romantic/sexual/loving, all of it.  Not sure that I want that with this particular person, it’s been so long.  But iirc, we did have some chemistry and I definitely thought he was a nice person.  I don’t have any idea if we have enough in common to pull off a relationship, though.  
 

He is coming tho!  I think it’s a good sign that I didn’t scare him away!  

29 minutes ago, Ellener said:

 

[grays]

4 minutes ago, snowboy91 said:

Inviting someone of the opposite sex over could have connotations depending on what your relationship is like. If it's been purely friendship to date, then expect nothing. If you have a history of sex like you describe, then he may well have the expectation that sex will happen. If you've just started dating where sex is assumed at some point, then expect him to want it.

I'm a bit confused of what your expectations are. Do you want sex with him or not? If we go with the assumption that you do want it, but only if you're not being used only for sex, I don't think you're going to have that issue with a guy you've known for some time. The relationship will probably go the way it will (positive or otherwise) regardless of whether there is sex or not.

You could also say outright that sex isn't going to happen if you want to quash expectations. If you feel like it in the moment, then you could go for it and overturn the "no", but then that sets up the idea that "no" could mean "yes"... which is problematic in itself.

So, in the past what we did was have sex.  We nights chatted for a bit before and after but it was mostly sex.  So, that’s why I decided this is the time to heed my friends’ advice.

From what you say it looks like my text was not explicit enough.  What I meant to say was “I want you to come over and hang out but I’m not having sex with you tonight,” leaving open room for maybe in the future.  It sounds like you’re reading it more like, “I only wanna have sex with you tonight if it’s more than just f***ing”? In which case, sounds like I shoulda been more direct.  It really makes me feel a bit creepy to tell someone who hasn’t asked yet that I don’t wanna have sex with them.  There’s not a huge doubt in my mind that he does, but it just seems so presumptuous.

[BaileyB]

I think the issue here is that you are trying to renegotiate the terms of a relationship that has a history. 

Do I believe that a man can come over for dinner and not have sex. Sure. 

Do I believe that you can invite a former FWB over for dinner and have him not at least hope, if not expect, that sex will be an option...

Well, let’s just say, I wouldn’t be inviting a former FWB over unless I was prepared to have sex. As you have learned, it’s hard to renegotiate the terms of a relationship. The text you sent was awkward as hell, but yeah... if you plan to invite your former FWB over for dinner and not offer dessert... you need to be upfront about that.

Edited December 1, 2020 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

17 hours ago, grays said:

Ok, first of all I believe it’s totally legit to invite someone over without the intention of having sex with them or without deciding whether you want to have sex with them.  My two best women friends are telling me I’m wrong about that, so while I reserve the right to believe what I believe, I’m also trying to avoid trouble.

 

So I sent him this text:

”Do you wanna come over for a bit?  I gotta warn you I’m a lot more serious of a person than I was when we hung out before.  When I met you I was pretty fresh out of my marriage and I just wanted to have fun.  Of course everyone wants to have fun, but if I sleep with someone it’s gonna bc because I’ve gotten to know them a bit and feel like they’re gonna be a positive in my life beyond sex.  I’m not saying this is gonna be an interview for the position of boyfriend.  I want a boyfriend eventually but I need friends, too.  I just didn’t want you to come over here and get surprised.”

Well you laid all your cards on the table. How did he respond?

What a [group] of girlfriends think is irrelevant in the long run. It's your life, your decision to reconnect with him and your decision to lay the cards on the table.

The bottom line is he can take it or leave it. You made yourself clear on what you want.

Edited December 1, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Group berating

[d0nnivain]

Because this is about changing the nature of the relationship it's trickier.  I think your message was overblown (too much for a text, better for a conversation) but you got your point across.  

CW says that an early invitation to someone's home is an invitation for sex but you can drawn boundaries differently.  Just be clear & don't tease, i.e. don't get into a bed to cuddle.  

[Fletch Lives]

I think it's good to be direct. I told a woman once, "Not before the third date"!

[elaine567]

15 hours ago, grays said:

 She said it wasn’t direct enough.

It's not. 
Former FWB blowing up your phone?
He wants sex.
Nothing in that message says sex is off the table. 
It is just pure waffle and the only part he heard was I guess, ”Do you wanna come over for a bit?"

[Weezy1973]

It will be tough to be alone with him in your home and not have sex considering that was the nature of your relationship. If you want to get to know him better to see if he’s boyfriend material, maybe ask to meet at a (socially distanced) restaurant for dinner?

[notbroken]

Just tell him 'straight up' that things have changed and you are looking for a potential relationship and not just sex.   He'll likely come over anyway - and may or may not believe you.   Make it clear in person he'll have to be patient.   He'll understand and either come for another date or he won't. 

[major_merrick]

I think that being clear is almost always the right choice.  And if you're changing the dynamic of a relationship or stepping back into one slowly, then you have to be even more clear than you would normally.

I suspect that men will actually appreciate this, rather than rejecting you for it.  Most guys complain that they don't understand what a girl is thinking or that a girl is being flaky or changes her mind.  Being clear with your expectations could actually be refreshing and make you seem more attractive.  But while you're being clear, be careful how you phrase things so you don't come off as being abrasive.  It could even be as cliche as the old "its not you, its me."  Or blame it on some pop psychology book you recently read, and say you're trying a new approach to relationships. 

[Lotsgoingon]

You hid yourself behind the "I'm more serious than before." You gotta be direct. 

This here is extremely vague:  but if I sleep with someone it’s gonna bc because I’ve gotten to know them a bit and feel like they’re gonna be a positive in my life beyond sex. A former FWB reading that line is going to immediately think, well she knows me a bit and I can be positive when I go see her and then we'll have sex.

You gotta be direct because you want to set clear expectations or boundaries. And two, you got to be direct so that you don't have to work so hard later in the evening if this guy starts trying to seduce you. You don't want to leave "no sex" up to your in-the-moment willpower. 

You want to frame things from the start. That way you can relax during the visit. It's like when I call a buddy of mine. He tells me up front, "I got ten minutes. Then we can set up a longer call for later." He doesn't say me, "I have to keep the call brief" or "I'm not talking on the phone as long as I used to." Can you see how vague those statements are?

Guys, even guys just chasing sex, need to know--EVERYONE needs to know--exactly what the other's expectations are. There are no hurt feelings here. A former FWB doesn't walk around feeling hurt that his former partner no longer wants casual sex.  Telling the guy up front "no sex" helps the guy get clear on what's going on. So he can relax.

BTW: no sex. What about massage? What about kissing? 

 

 

 

[MsJayne]

No, you do not have to warn someone that you might not want to have sex with them.  Unless you sent a text saying, "Please come over for sex", they have no right to expect it. 

[SumGuy]

19 hours ago, grays said:

...

He is coming tho!  I think it’s a good sign that I didn’t scare him away!  

Don't worry about scaring him away.  A guy that would be scared away by that text is just looking for sex, and is honest about it.

I agree about inviting strangers over, the dangerous ones are going to ignore any such text, even if it says explicitly no sex.

I've never been scared away by the "no sex if you come over text" or warning.   I agree with them, I don't make any assumption when invited over beyond she likes me at least enough to hang out, and neither should she.  :)   If it goes there it goes there because we both feel it is the moment.

[grays]

MsJayne and SumGuy, I completely agree.  I really feel like I should never feel like I have to have sex unless maybe I’ve sent out the “come over and gave sex with me,” text.  And even then I should never feel like I had already committed to it at an earlier time so I need to follow through.  I felt like I had to do it w this guy bc that was our relationship before, come over and have sex, I didn’t want him there thinking my intention was a booty call.  

The reason this has all come up is that on election night I invited a guy over who I had had a relationship with that ended in July.  He and I had talked about the fact that we didn’t work romantically or sexually.  We texted for like three months after we ended and we never flirty at all.  I invited him over bc we had always talked a lot about politics and were on the same page about it and I was just really wanting to watch the returns with a like minded person who’s company I enjoyed.  He ended up vandalizing my apartment while I was asleep (he was supposed to be sleeping on my couch) and then later in the day came back and kicked my door in (wasn’t home, thank god).  I had been in my apt for five years and loved it but moved a week later bc I didn’t feel safe there.

Anyway the other night turned out great.  He said he knew exactly what I was saying and he wasn’t expecting to have sex after seeing the text.  He said he thought here was a 50/50 chance but he wasn’t expecting it. We ended up staying up until 4 am talking, which we had never done before, and he stayed over and I can’t lie, I was really digging him when we went in there and I thought there was a 50/50 chance at that point.  But I think bc we had already had the conversation he wasn’t gonna go there, which was a great thing. Kissing and cuddling happened and I felt good about it.  
 

I don’t entirely agree that my text wasn’t clear.  I feel like anyone with two brain cells shoulda been able to tell what I was saying.  Maybe they wouldn’t have thought sex was DEFINITELY off the table, but they shoulda known that I wasn’t inviting them over with the idea that it was for sex.  BUT if I feel the need to send this kinda warning again, I’ll try to be more explicit.  Hopefully I won’t feel like I need to again.  It’s quite possible I won’t date anyone new until after covid is behind us.  (I don’t think there’s any social distancing dine-in places here, only outside and it’s been cold, but I feel safer with one person in one of our homes than in a room full of people.)

[Wiseman2]

Why bother with preemptive strikes?

Are you testing something? Such as they'll cancel if a hookup is off the table?

Whether or not sex happens is entirely up to you. 

In home dating may unfortunately be more prevalent during covid, but it doesn't imply sex is the only thing.

Make sure if you do have in home dates that you balance his place/your place.

Control how long you'll stay/they stay and have something interesting planned besides talking until 4 am.

[grays]

13 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Why bother with preemptive strikes?

Are you testing something? Such as they'll cancel if a hookup is off the table?

Whether or not sex happens is entirely up to you. 

In home dating may unfortunately be more prevalent during covid, but it doesn't imply sex is the only thing.

Make sure if you do have in home dates that you balance his place/your place.

Control how long you'll stay/they stay and have something interesting planned besides talking until 4 am.

So, the main reason for the preemptive strike was that I recently had a guy vandalize my apartment and kick my door in bc I didn’t wanna have sex with him.  Two of my friends told me I should have told him I didn’t wanna have sex with him before inviting him over even tho we had previously been in a relationship and had been talking about how we weren’t good for each other sexually or romantically.  I also had another incident where I invited a guy over at 10 am to look at my car (he was a mechanic).  We had been on a couple of dates but were not at all intimate.  And he threw a fit bc I wouldn’t have sex with him.  That was actually the first time my friends said, “you need to tell a guy when you invite him...”. I think that’s s*** advice, I mean I don’t think I need to know if I wanna have sex with a guy before I invite him over and I certainly don’t think a guy has a right to expect it.  

Hmmmm, I have to say that the dates where we’ve stayed up all night talking have always been my faves.  Do you not think that’s fun?  Or is there some reason you think there needs to be an “interesting plan,” and what would that be?  Board games? Crafting?  lol  

Why balance his place/my place?  When I’ve dated someone for a while it seems like we usually settle into mine or theirs as a habit.  I tend to like being at my place, but I like to at least see his.  But I’ve been pretty happy with the relationships that mostly happen at my place.

[Wiseman2]

You need to file a police report. Your preemptive strikes are pointless if you are hanging out with violent men.

Stop inviting men to your home if you have repeated incidences of violence.

You have more control if you go to thier place and leave at a reasonable hour.

Make sure you stay in control at all times by minimizing drinking and driving yourself home at reasonable hours.

This open ended approach seems to not be working for you and simply announcing in a text that there won't be sex to avoid the assaults, violence and break-ins you state happened, isn't going to deter these violent types.

[Ellener]

It seems to me you handled it well @grays since you know the person and he responded well and as you hoped!

1 hour ago, grays said:

So, the main reason for the preemptive strike was that I recently had a guy vandalize my apartment and kick my door in bc I didn’t wanna have sex with him.  Two of my friends told me I should have told him I didn’t wanna have sex with him before inviting him over even tho we had previously been in a relationship and had been talking about how we weren’t good for each other sexually or romantically.  I also had another incident where I invited a guy over at 10 am to look at my car (he was a mechanic).  We had been on a couple of dates but were not at all intimate.  And he threw a fit bc I wouldn’t have sex with him.  

I mentioned 'stranger danger' but really it's people we know and trust who generally harm us...

 

[SumGuy]

On 12/3/2020 at 4:46 AM, grays said:

So, the main reason for the preemptive strike was that I recently had a guy vandalize my apartment and kick my door in bc I didn’t wanna have sex with him.  Two of my friends told me I should have told him I didn’t wanna have sex with him before inviting him over even tho we had previously been in a relationship and had been talking about how we weren’t good for each other sexually or romantically.  I also had another incident where I invited a guy over at 10 am to look at my car (he was a mechanic).  We had been on a couple of dates but were not at all intimate.  And he threw a fit bc I wouldn’t have sex with him.  That was actually the first time my friends said, “you need to tell a guy when you invite him...”. I think that’s s*** advice, I mean I don’t think I need to know if I wanna have sex with a guy before I invite him over and I certainly don’t think a guy has a right to expect it.  

...

You and your friends are both right.   What the first guy did is criminal by the way.

You shouldn't have to do this, and it is not your "fault" if guys expect sex and then react badly when they don't get it (that is pure toxic entitlement thinking on their part).  

Your friends are right because it is a way to help prevent these behaviors (sadly, these guys, especially the first) are on the edge of being rapists, all it would likely take is a few drinks and the right situation where they think they could get away with it.  Given how they reacted, I see now why your friends say be explicit, not hint.  These guys don't have any clue about reasonable behavior, only being blunt and direct is going to get through to them...and even then it may not work.

It is about self help and trying to prevent these situations even though you are in the right and shouldn't have to.

I'd also take a hard look at these guys, and how you are filtering, as suspect you want to avoid attracting such men in the first place.

Edited December 4, 2020 by SumGuy

[Ellener]

26 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

You shouldn't have to do this, and it is not your "fault" if guys expect sex and then react badly when they don't get it (that is pure toxic entitlement thinking on their part).  

Exactly.

[Miss Spider]

That’s a weird text. Sorry . I’m just imagining being on the receiving end and I would find it weird. I think it’s better (and more convincing) to establish boundaries when you actually get to that road, instead of thinking up hypothetical situations and drawing up a map before you get there. It almost seems controlling/forced? 

 

[grays]

11 hours ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

That’s a weird text. Sorry . I’m just imagining being on the receiving end and I would find it weird. I think it’s better (and more convincing) to establish boundaries when you actually get to that road, instead of thinking up hypothetical situations and drawing up a map before you get there. It almost seems controlling/forced? 

 

I agree, but it kinda seems necessary.  

@SumGuy, It’s weird, I actually met these two guys within a few days of each other.  I’ve dated a ton over the last six years and never had a situation like either of these.  It is sobering.