Latest CDC Guidelines 'universal mask wearing' etc ( Dec 2020 )

[Ellener]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6949e2.htm?s_cid=mm6949e2_w

What is added by this report?

COVID-19 pandemic control requires a multipronged application of evidence-based strategies while improving health equity: universal face mask use, physical distancing, avoiding nonessential indoor spaces, increasing testing, prompt quarantine of exposed persons, safeguarding those at increased risk for severe illness or death, protecting essential workers, postponing travel, enhancing ventilation and hand hygiene, and achieving widespread COVID-19 vaccination coverage.

What are the implications for public health practice?

These combined strategies will protect health care, essential businesses, and schools, bridging to a future with high community coverage of effective vaccines and safe return to more activities in a range of settings.

I know hindsight is 20/20 but wish we had known all this in March!

[dangerous]

Many of us do not agree with this view.

The same can be said for influenza, common cold, etc. What then, we go into restrictions for ever?

Probably

A more sensible approach would be to apply these measures to the vulnerable, not the whole of society...

But that would not be FAIR... would be the response, no doubt.

[Fletch Lives]

It sounds like the same protocol that's been prescribed for the last 6 months.

I think the mask wearing might be a good idea going forward. There are other diseases and viruses besides covid.

[Happy Lemming]

When the pandemic first hit, the Chinese government was forcing their citizens to wear masks.  They knew!!

Even before masks were suggested, I put a N95 mask on my girlfriend, so she could pick up her prescriptions (back in March).  I told her if the Chinese government is forcing this practice, it must be necessary.  At that time, she was the only one with a mask on in the pharmacy.  I told her I'd rather be safe than sorry.

I had some N95 masks leftover from a construction project, they really came in handy!!

[Taramere]

18 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

Even before masks were suggested, I put a N95 mask on my girlfriend, so she could pick up her prescriptions (back in March).  I told her if the Chinese government is forcing this practice, it must be necessary.  At that time, she was the only one with a mask on in the pharmacy.  I told her I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Yeah, I had people looking and smirking at me back in March, for wearing a mask.  One checkout assistant even made a sharp comment about how people shouldn't be wearing masks because they were needed by health care workers.  I'd ordered mine from China, where they evidently had plenty, and it p***ed me off to be shamed like that - particularly as I am a part time carer for my mother, who's in the vulnerable category.  She has other carers coming in, and one of them is unbelievably lax.  She'll put her mask up periodically, as though it's going to make a blind bit of difference to pop it up here and there when she's wearing it under her chin most of the time. 

I've asked her many times, as nicely as possible, to keep her mask on and then she'll sort of make a "my bad" face and pop the mask up again - but then I'll go into the room and see her pretty much cuddled up to my mum, mask back off her face, showing her photos on her mobile phone.  So I've put a temporary stop on that service until my mum and I get the vaccine, and I'll just fill the gap myself for the time being.  I know a lot of people are pretty lax about social distancing, but when a person actually works as a carer to the vulnerable elderly and is as lax as that despite repeated requests to be more careful, it's dispiriting.

My dad has had covid for over a week, and it looks as though he is going to pass away pretty soon.  Due to that, we were allowed to visit briefly, obviously with very strict PPE & distancing measures in place.  I've heard a lot of people say "well, I don't know anybody who has had it".  I didn't either, until now. To anybody who hasn't seen anybody dying from it - trust me when I say it's not pretty, and it's well worth following precautions to reduce the likelihood of getting it.   There's a risk that even people who have been careful up to now are getting sloppy due to news about the vaccine.

Edited December 6, 2020 by Taramere

[Happy Lemming]

3 minutes ago, Taramere said:

I'd ordered mine from China, where they evidently had plenty, and it pissed me off to be shamed like that...

Yes... I had purchased some N95 masks about a year before the pandemic.  I was beveling and polishing some marble tile for my master bath and bought a good supply of them, as it was cheaper to purchase them in bulk. 

I remember on the news, the local government was asking people to donate any leftover N95 masks to hospitals, etc.  I didn't have that many and didn't think it was worth the risk to go and donate my spares.  I've used all but one of them for various trips to the grocery store, etc.

Let people shame me all they want... I did nothing illegal or wrong.  I purchased them way before the pandemic and was going to use them to protect my girlfriend and I.

11 minutes ago, Taramere said:

My dad has had covid for over a week, and it looks as though he is going to pass away pretty soon. 

Really sorry to hear about your Dad...

[NuevoYorko]

On 12/5/2020 at 3:03 AM, dangerous said:

Many of us do not agree with this view.

The same can be said for influenza, common cold, etc. What then, we go into restrictions for ever?

Probably

A more sensible approach would be to apply these measures to the vulnerable, not the whole of society...

But that would not be FAIR... would be the response, no doubt.

The response would be:  Applying "these measures" to the vulnerable is completely ineffective..

YOU won't wear a mask in the presence of other people.  Both you and the vulnerable person would need to wear a mask in order to protect the vulnerable person.

We've all seen enough of this virus to know that a great many infected people are asymptomatic or nearly so.  If they won't wear masks - much less self isolate - they are just acting as vectors, potentially spreading COVID to anyone they may come into contact with. 

I know many people with your point of view.  At the end of it, the bottom line is "The majority of infected people recover.  I won't get very sick and die, so why should I be concerned about the rest of society?"  

We will be over 3000 deaths per day during this week.  What's the proper number of deaths for the average American citizen to start caring about the effects of this pandemic on our country? 

You share  responsibility for much suffering and death, not to mention the collapse of our economy.  Nice work.

Edited December 6, 2020 by NuevoYorko

[Philosopher]

Reading these guidelines, it sounds like the CDC are effectively saying the virus can only be controlled by lockdowns, at least until there is sufficient vaccination coverage. Which is fine if widespread vaccination can be achieved say by the Spring. But what do you do if it takes a year to achieve widespread vaccination, or vaccination uptake is low? If you lockdown for too long, people will eventually increasingly ignore it. 

[Ellener]

4 hours ago, Taramere said:

My dad has had covid for over a week, and it looks as though he is going to pass away pretty soon. 

I am so sorry. Sending you all the love I have spare. Thinking of your family.

[basil67]

I'm so sorry Taramere.   Sending love to you and your family

[NuevoYorko]

3 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Reading these guidelines, it sounds like the CDC are effectively saying the virus can only be controlled by lockdowns, at least until there is sufficient vaccination coverage. Which is fine if widespread vaccination can be achieved say by the Spring. But what do you do if it takes a year to achieve widespread vaccination, or vaccination uptake is low? If you lockdown for too long, people will eventually increasingly ignore it. 

I believe that anything is better than nothing.  Lockdowns are not going to fly in the US.  In the state where I live, we are in a "freeze" now and the trump followers are talking on social media about killing the governor.  They WILL NOT wear masks, much less limit any of their other activities.

 WHO says that universal mask wearing alone could save as many as 130,000 lives. Why not wear the masks and save a bunch of lives while we're waiting for the vaccine?  

 

 

[QuietRiot]

13 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

I believe that anything is better than nothing.  Lockdowns are not going to fly in the US.  In the state where I live, we are in a "freeze" now and the trump followers are talking on social media about killing the governor.  They WILL NOT wear masks, much less limit any of their other activities.

 WHO says that universal mask wearing alone could save as many as 130,000 lives. Why not wear the masks and save a bunch of lives while we're waiting for the vaccine?  

 

 

Right, in New Mexico, there was NO choice BUT to lockdown as hospitals have reached capacity. A little late for a lock down at that point, since the water is overflowing, but...better late than never?

Pretty soon, grandpa won't be able to have surgery on his heart because some irresponsible Covid patient is taking up space.

[serial muse]

It is unfathomable to me that people would choose not to wear masks at this time. Unfathomable that people haven't allowed it to sink in that this is not the flu, and that we are in the middle of a terrible health crisis, with hospitals overwhelmed and thousands dying each day in the U.S. Unfathomable that this simple measure, this incredibly easy lift that could save thousands of lives, has become a lightning rod, that people could be so selfish as to refuse to do it for their fellow humans. I simply cannot wrap my brain around this. I cannot plumb the depths of this way of thinking. It's a murky, murky ocean of bizarre selfishness. I am not religious, but my mother is. She is praying for those who will not help others. I am just despairing, I suppose. 

Edited December 7, 2020 by serial muse

[NuevoYorko]

2 hours ago, serial muse said:

It is unfathomable to me that people would choose not to wear masks at this time. Unfathomable that people haven't allowed it to sink in that this is not the flu, and that we are in the middle of a terrible health crisis, with hospitals overwhelmed and thousands dying each day in the U.S. Unfathomable that this simple measure, this incredibly easy lift that could save thousands of lives, has become a lightning rod, that people could be so selfish as to refuse to do it for their fellow humans. I simply cannot wrap my brain around this. I cannot plumb the depths of this way of thinking. It's a murky, murky ocean of bizarre selfishness. I am not religious, but my mother is. She is praying for those who will not help others. I am just despairing, I suppose. 

I am with you.  We (Americans) have gone to a very dark place with our notions of "freedom" and "exceptionalism."  At this point, any sign of doing what would benefit the whole, rather than be personally gratifying at any given moment is viewed as an unpardonable affront to PERSONAL FREEDOM and a headlong dive into MARXISM.  

No grasp of the concept of Marxism required, either.  

 

[Ellener]

16 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

We (Americans) have gone to a very dark place with our notions of "freedom" and "exceptionalism." 

What does it mean even to mean, we elected a president on the back of of a communist influence?
Then that president denied us basic US freedoms and robbed us any way?

Wearing a cloth face cover is the least of our problems.

[vjk]

Masks have been required in Ohio since June.    Except people walking outdoors, It been months since I last saw someone not wearing one out in public.  And yet, Ohio has been ranking near the top in new cases for the past month.   

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, vjk said:

Masks have been required in Ohio since June.    Except people walking outdoors, It been months since I last saw someone not wearing one out in public.  And yet, Ohio has been ranking near the top in new cases for the past month.   

Same here in Texas, people are wearing the masks but we also have a massive surge of Covid cases. All year long. Over and over.

I  HATE 2020!

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, vjk said:

Masks have been required in Ohio since June.    Except people walking outdoors, It been months since I last saw someone not wearing one out in public.  And yet, Ohio has been ranking near the top in new cases for the past month.   

We've seen many hundreds of unmasked Ohioans in broadcasted trump rallies, so there are plenty of folks in your state  who are not wearing them.  In any case,  universal mask wearing is proven to be effective.   No doubt things would be even worse if more people refused .  

 

[Ellener]

5 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

We've seen many hundreds of unmasked Ohioans in broadcasted trump rallies, so there are plenty of folks in your state  who are not wearing them.  In any case,  universal mask wearing is proven to be effective.   No doubt things would be even worse if more people refused .  

 

I think that's a Trump rally thing rather than a Republican norm. Texas is Republican and people are wearing masks here.

[NuevoYorko]

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

I think that's a Trump rally thing rather than a Republican norm. Texas is Republican and people are wearing masks here.

??  I haven't mentioned a political party.  

  

 

[basil67]

5 hours ago, vjk said:

Masks have been required in Ohio since June.    Except people walking outdoors, It been months since I last saw someone not wearing one out in public.  And yet, Ohio has been ranking near the top in new cases for the past month.   

What are you getting at with this observation?   I don't want to assume....

[Ellener]

4 hours ago, NuevoYorko said:

unmasked Ohioans in broadcasted trump rallies,

I assumed the political label @NuevoYorko! Sorry.

We did have a bit of a back-lash against the masks here in Texas at first, but Covid's been so bad since that no one will serve you in public spaces without a mask except restaurants and bars. The surge in infections came when the restaurants and bars reopened coincidentally. 

I wonder if anyone's looked at that? Inside city limits here those places have special 'smoking' sections with re-filtered air; it was a factor, a/c in one of the first studies.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Ellener
clarification

[basil67]

4 hours ago, Ellener said:

The surge in infections came when the restaurants and bars reopened coincidentally. 

I wonder if anyone's looked at that? Inside city limits here those places have special 'smoking' sections with re-filtered air; it was a factor, a/c in one of the first studies. 

Here in Australia we have very good contact tracing and publicising of venues where positive COVID cases have visited.  Even the untrained eye can see that a significant percentage of infections have been transmitted in restaurants and bars.  Main causes are a) indoors b) close environment c) longer time spent in this environment.  

 

[Wiseman2]

Seeing the same things. Upticks in cases coinciding with reopenings and gatherings.

This is a real one step forward two steps back monster 👹😟

[FMW]

In my City bars and restaurants opened back up in May (limited to half capacity) and our numbers have only surged in the past 6 weeks.  Our Mayor said contact tracing shows the majority of that increase has come from large private gatherings (starting around Halloween) and that's why she wasn't shutting down indoor dining.  She said it wasn't right to punish businesses and their employees when they were doing a good job with precautions.  We've had a mask mandate in the City since March.

Restaurant and bar staff are tested weekly and the few times there have been positive tests they close down for professional sanitizing and to make sure the tests for everyone else remain negative before reopening.    

Our hospitals ARE in crisis right now, like many, in large part because of COVID patients transferring in from small hospitals in the rest of the State, areas where most people still won't wear masks.  So incredibly frustrating.

It's scary to think about what will result from all the holiday related gatherings that started with Thanksgiving a few weeks ago and will go through New Years Eve celebrations.