Can this work

[Trail Blazer]

40 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

You will have to do one of these reality tv shows- First Dates or something,

so as we can get a look at you in action.

Now that would make for interesting viewing!

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Why would you reject and one-night stand?  They're great for boosting your confidence as a male, especially if you're a little sex-starved of late.  Or, in your case, just getting the monkey off your back!

Everyone's experiences are different.  However, I think you just need a good bonk, my friend.  Who cares if she's not that attractive?  If it's just sex, we've all been there before, having slept with a less-than-desirable.

It's just not the experience I want, anyway I don't have the charm to be deemed attractive enough anyway. She has to be attractive else there is no point.

I have gone looking for just sex before but the results are no different, I saw the players and their methods and tried to copy but ultimately I never ended up going anywhere.

[ZA Dater]

I think the elephant in the room is always the fact I get teased by the same friends who try set me up with incredibly unattractive people. 

 

[Trail Blazer]

17 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Unfortunately statistics support the fact drinking rarely happens in moderation in SA. Irrespective where I go I see the same thing unless it's purely a restaurant then sure you can get when you mention above but there is no mixing of people. It's just really difficult to meet anyone that way.

Maybe I should say that some of these people are in their 40s and 50s and behave like this. And what do we have 20s and 30s ladies who love the prestige, the charm and whatever these guy's apparently have. 

Again I am probably wrong and I don't mind admitting it but the reality is I can sit and talk about mostly anything but that's more a curse than a talent. Maybe I am just wrong with my entire point of view.

What irritates me and always will and I cannot change is is no matter how I sell what I have it's never good enough when I compete with Mr player. Its one way traffic for me I try and try but ultimately I lack any level of attraction so I have lost from the start.

Perhaps South Africa is culturally different to the west (I will hopefully visit once this pandemic is over), but surely your social activities don't revolve around drinking heavily amongst the age demographic of late-thirties?  Surely?

I've never known South Africa to a big drinking nation.  I've visited most western countries and spent a lot of time in renowned heavy drinking places like Ireland, Germany and Australia and I can say that I've frequented many establishments where a relaxed, casual drink amongst mature adults was par for the course.

I really just feel like you're hanging around with the wrong people.  From the sounds of it, your workplace is akin to a Wolf of Wall Street setting, where people's work and life culture are intrinsically linked, with partying and sex being the main focus.

 

[Trail Blazer]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It's just not the experience I want, anyway I don't have the charm to be deemed attractive enough anyway. She has to be attractive else there is no point.

I have gone looking for just sex before but the results are no different, I saw the players and their methods and tried to copy but ultimately I never ended up going anywhere.

How attractive?  Would you literally not be able to get it up unless she's hot?  Or, you're just being fussy?  

If you don't want ONS, that's fine.  But I think it would be wise to have sex with someon you're not that into before meeting someone you are.

Trust me, I bumbled and fumbled my way around a few relationships before I got it right in terms of behaving like the man I wanted to be.

The scariest part I see for you is even if you do manage to land and date someone you're attracted to, you're 20+ years of experience behind people who've experienced what you're yet to experience.

I do not mean this to be at all condescending, but trust me, when I was 18 and got with a few girls I really liked, I blew it because I didn't know how to play things cool.

A woman in her late 30s may be more mature and forgiving in some respects, but then in others, she may have a higher expectation of social maturity.

In my opinion, no matter how old one is, one can only gain the level of maturity required for long-lasting relationships through trial and error.  Rarely does first love last due to a combination of factors.

[basil67]

8 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

Perhaps South Africa is culturally different to the west (I will hopefully visit once this pandemic is over), but surely your social activities don't revolve around drinking heavily amongst the age demographic of late-thirties?  Surely?

I've never known South Africa to a big drinking nation.  I've visited most western countries and spent a lot of time in renowned heavy drinking places like Ireland, Germany and Australia and I can say that I've frequented many establishments where a relaxed, casual drink amongst mature adults was par for the course.

It could be an issue of perception.  Coming from one your your forementioned big drinking nations, I might view South Africa's drinking habit as being mild or moderate. But for someone who's pretty much a teetotaler, it could be viewed quite differently.  

[basil67]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I think the elephant in the room is always the fact I get teased by the same friends who try set me up with incredibly unattractive people. 

 

What do they say to tease you?   It also begs the question of whether or not they are friends who are worth having.

[Trail Blazer]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

It could be an issue of perception.  Coming from one your your forementioned big drinking nations, I might view South Africa's drinking habit as being mild or moderate. But for someone who's pretty much a teetotaler, it could be viewed quite differently.  

Well, yes.  We know that @ZA Dater's perception of how the world works does not align with the general consensus.

[Foxhall]

Yes as we mentioned before, this peer group or friends of yours are a big part of the problem,

I had friends like this in my early 20s actually, they were a lot better than I was with women and I needed them to try and make any inroads,

I dont know the funny thing was I never really improved with women until our friends group drifted apart and I had to find my own way. one of these guys married young, they separated, and its turned full circle now hes coming back after ten years of no contact asking can I set him up with one of my girlfriends pals.

You have probably picked up some things from these friends, and if you can combine that with your own positive traits of being a nice genuine bloke and so on,

things can work out for you. your meeting plenty of women anyway and putting yourself out there, 

give less thought to getting the group kudos, discover what satisfies your soul. 

 

[basil67]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

What do they say to tease you?   It also begs the question of whether or not they are friends who are worth having.

Further, you also mentioned a few posts back that you can even laugh when a date laughs at you.  With the exception of you having just delivered some self depreciating humour, it's extraordinarily rude of a date to laugh at you.   Add to this, your "mates" are teasing you and there's some pretty toxic things going on around you.  

What are your thoughts on this?

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

 

The scariest part I see for you is even if you do manage to land and date someone you're attracted to, you're 20+ years of experience behind people who've experienced what you're yet to experience.

I do not mean this to be at all condescending, but trust me, when I was 18 and got with a few girls I really liked, I blew it because I didn't know how to play things cool.

A woman in her late 30s may be more mature and forgiving in some respects, but then in others, she may have a higher expectation of social maturity.

 

Exactly this. I am glad you brought this up because those are exactly my feelings. I cannot pretend I have experience so mostly I just default to friend zone because that doesn't matter.

Simply put I probably have a greater chance of winning the lottery.

[ZA Dater]

So yeah spent most of the morning with her, see this is what I can't properly describe, it's just nice to spend time with her. Interestingly there was another guy with the group and she was more interested in chatting to me than his overtly flirty advances. 

Granted she did tease me about all the girls at the market we were at. She seems to like my dry humour. 

I have had a very nice day so far.

[HiCrunchy]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

So yeah spent most of the morning with her, see this is what I can't properly describe, it's just nice to spend time with her. Interestingly there was another guy with the group and she was more interested in chatting to me than his overtly flirty advances. 

Granted she did tease me about all the girls at the market we were at. She seems to like my dry humour. 

I have had a very nice day so far.

Aww yay I'm glad its going well

[SumGuy]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

So yeah spent most of the morning with her, see this is what I can't properly describe, it's just nice to spend time with her. ...

Know exactly what you mean.    That is a very good sign and seems she feels the same.

[Weezy1973]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I have had a very nice day so far.

That’s great. Are you going to kiss her? 

[basil67]

You can do this!

[ZA Dater]

Well what I also did was I told said friend who is trying to set her up with other guys that I am in fact interested so instead of sit back I made my position quite clear. What I cant explain to this forum accurately is culturally there are people in SA I fit together with better, her upbringing and culture are similar to find and in the past I have found I simply connect better if this is the case. She does seem to laugh at my dry humour which I guess is a good thing.

 

[Weezy1973]

13 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What I cant explain to this forum accurately is culturally there are people in SA I fit together with better, her upbringing and culture are similar to find and in the past I have found I simply connect better if this is the case.

 

This is part of what most people refer to as “chemistry”. But I know you’ve said in the past you don’t believe in that.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

This is part of what most people refer to as “chemistry”. But I know you’ve said in the past you don’t believe in that.

Oh alright. I am just going to take the approach of one good experience at a time, I do think culture may give me an ever so slight advantage this time, its rare I have any sort of advantage but who knows maybe I do this time. She is going through a lot of things which are quite intense I am going to do one of the things I do very well and that is be the supportive "you talk and I will listen" type of guy. In hindsight the fact she knows I am useless at dating means I have that particular monkey off my back so that is also helpful but I suspect the vitally important part of "attraction" I might fall short on. And no, I dont count my chickens before they hatch.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

but I suspect the vitally important part of "attraction" I might fall short on.

As I’ve said many times, your beliefs mean you’re guaranteed to fail. Truth is you have no idea if she’s attracted to you or not. You don’t pick up social cues well, so the only way to find out is to take a risk. Try for a kiss. 
 

But my guess is you won’t do this. You’d rather stay on the friend zone and fantasize about more, rather than take the risk where you might have to get rid of the fantasy. Although you might get the girl...

[basil67]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well what I also did was I told said friend who is trying to set her up with other guys that I am in fact interested so instead of sit back I made my position quite clear. What I cant explain to this forum accurately is culturally there are people in SA I fit together with better, her upbringing and culture are similar to find and in the past I have found I simply connect better if this is the case. She does seem to laugh at my dry humour which I guess is a good thing.

I would have thought that it's common for people to connect more easily with those who have a similar upbringing and culture.  At least, I wouldn't question it for a moment.  

Now, telling your friend that you're interested achieves nothing.   Asking her on a date yourself is how to get this going.   And please, please don't lead with listening to her problems and supporting her.   I'd spent time with a person and later looked back at the fact that we'd spent the entire time talking about my issues, I'd be mortified.  A date is about connecting, but should also be fun and easy.   It's about taking a break from issues, not for indulging them.

[ZA Dater]

52 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

 

But my guess is you won’t do this. You’d rather stay on the friend zone and fantasize about more, rather than take the risk where you might have to get rid of the fantasy. Although you might get the girl...

Your guess is right. Will only take that risk if I am sure, I took that risk on a date that went well and never saw the person again.

In my world a friend is worth more than another big failure.

[ZA Dater]

17 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I would have thought that it's common for people to connect more easily with those who have a similar upbringing and culture.  At least, I wouldn't question it for a moment.  

Now, telling your friend that you're interested achieves nothing.   Asking her on a date yourself is how to get this going.   And please, please don't lead with listening to her problems and supporting her.   I'd spent time with a person and later looked back at the fact that we'd spent the entire time talking about my issues, I'd be mortified.  A date is about connecting, but should also be fun and easy.   It's about taking a break from issues, not for indulging them.

It puts me in his game of matchmaking. Also puts him in the position of some difficulty.

As I say what she is going through at the moment is something where dating perhaps is not on her mind but someone supportive may be more important.

I am basically counting on the fact she knows I have no experience being an advantage..

 

[Weezy1973]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Your guess is right. Will only take that risk if I am sure, I took that risk on a date that went well and never saw the person again.

In my world a friend is worth more than another big failure.

If you’re sure, then it’s not a risk. I mentioned at the very beginning of the thread that this won’t work (I.e won’t develop into more than friendship) as long as you do things the same way you’ve always done them, and here you’re about to do that again. Why not change things up? We all know you won’t be happy with just being friends in the long run. 

[basil67]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

It puts me in his game of matchmaking. Also puts him in the position of some difficulty.

As I say what she is going through at the moment is something where dating perhaps is not on her mind but someone supportive may be more important.

I am basically counting on the fact she knows I have no experience being an advantage..

 

Sounds like a fast track to the friendzone.   I guess she could make a good friend.