Can this work

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Adapt to what. I have tried my best, nothing else I can do. I can't change the fact I have no value and I am good at is deemed irrelevant.

Expand your social circle to people you have more in common with. You hang out with players and people who like bars   , clubs and partys. These aren’t your people. Move if you have to. Again, try women that are a “5” on your initial attraction meter rather than holding out for a “10”. Put yourself in situations where you meet the same people over and over. Take a cooking class. Or a pottery class. Or mixed slow pitch. Forget Tinder but maybe try relationship oriented site like eHarmony instead. Get ripped like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. 
 

You know, try. Do some different things. None of those things means you change the core of who you are. You’re just doing different things.

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

You want women that are 9s and 10s on the physical attractiveness scale, yet you're not doing anything to match that on your end.  These women that you like have tons of options, yet you're not doing anything to make yourself a 9 or 10.  We've talked about this, women love a high acheiving man, yet you're not interested in being a high acheiver.  What are you doing to make more money, open your own business, build a rich life for yourself?  You're fine with what you've accomplished career wise, but women want to be a part of an exciting, rich life, and this is even more the case for these extremely attactive women.  No woman wants to "date down" and be with some ordinary guy that's just content with a mediocre life.

Who said I had a mediocre life.  But thanks for once again proving my experiences correct.

[ZA Dater]

Just now, Weezy1973 said:

Expand your social circle to people you have more in common with. You hang out with players and people who like bars   , clubs and partys. These aren’t your people. Move if you have to. Again, try women that are a “5” on your initial attraction meter rather than holding out for a “10”. Put yourself in situations where you meet the same people over and over. Take a cooking class. Or a pottery class. Or mixed slow pitch. Forget Tinder but maybe try relationship oriented site like eHarmony instead. Get ripped like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. 
 

You know, try. Do some different things. None of those things means you change the core of who you are. You’re just doing different things.

No thanks not doing things for the sake of doing them. I don't have anything in common with anyone so it's cool. I'll just get used to being alone all the time, adapt and survive I suppose. It was nice having company but yeah it's not attainable so I'll just make the best of what I do have.

No amount of working out will make me Stallone and I hay tried, I am happy with how I look. Absolutely not going back to any OLD platform.

I don't have "people" so it's ok I'll try make best of it and have to gritty determination to just park dating for good.

Thanks anyway.

 

[dramafreezone]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Who said I had a mediocre life.  But thanks for once again proving my experiences correct.

If your life is great for you, then that's great.  But you can't expect women that can date anyone they want to be impressed by what you find impressive.  So your only choice is to maximize everything that you can maximize.  If you don't want to, then that's great but again, how would you ever expect them to be attracted to you? 

A lack of ambition is a serious red mark against you.  It has nothing to do with you being someone that women don't desire because you don't like to party or drink or any of that.  It's that you don't care to maximize what you are good at.

Edited March 16, 2021 by dramafreezone

[ZA Dater]

15 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

If your life is great for you, then that's great.  But you can't expect women that can date anyone they want to be impressed by what you find impressive.  So your only choice is to maximize everything that you can maximize.  If you don't want to, then that's great but again, how would you ever expect them to be attracted to you? 

A lack of ambition is a serious red mark against you.  It has nothing to do with you being someone that women don't desire because you don't like to party or drink or any of that.  It's that you don't care to maximize what you are good at.

Would I chase what I do and do what I do if I had no ambition? This is precisely why many people don't interest me because they have no ambition.

I never take on the easy challenge but at least I can see progress towards the end goal, there is no progress with dating, it never gets better only worse, the choice gets worse and so do the outcomes.

Frankly I'd rather just do something else, which is difficult because I don't often walk away, this time I think I am better off doing just that. Walking away.

[dramafreezone]

 

 

31 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No thanks not doing things for the sake of doing them. I don't have anything in common with anyone so it's cool. I'll just get used to being alone all the time, adapt and survive I suppose. It was nice having company but yeah it's not attainable so I'll just make the best of what I do have.

No amount of working out will make me Stallone and I hay tried, I am happy with how I look. Absolutely not going back to any OLD platform.

I don't have "people" so it's ok I'll try make best of it and have to gritty determination to just park dating for good.

Thanks anyway.

 

How do you know?  If you've not done every hobby in the world, then you cannot say for certain you don't have anything in common with anyone.  This is what I mean when I say you don't try.   When's the last time you tried something new as far as a hobby?

[Weezy1973]

10 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Frankly I'd rather just do something else, which is difficult because I don't often walk away, this time I think I am better off doing just that. Walking away.

OK. Well it’s been good chatting with you over the years. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[elaine567]

When this traumatic event is so recent and feelings are raw I don't think this is the time to make huge potentially life changing decisions.
Once things have calmed down and all is put back into perspective, then it is OK to reconsider one's initial knee jerk reaction.
No woman is worth jettisoning one's potential long term happiness for.
Now that we know this girl was likely always into older rich men, then ZA had no hope, just  in the same way had her core "type" been red haired beanpole eco warriors or hairy chubby gamers, or any other "type" you care to mention. 
Attraction is attraction, desire is desire, best not to mess with that or "force" anything as that doesn't tend to lead to long term happiness.
 

[chillii]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

No thanks not doing things for the sake of doing them. I don't have anything in common with anyone so it's cool. I'll just get used to being alone all the time, adapt and survive I suppose. It was nice having company but yeah it's not attainable so I'll just make the best of what I do have.

No amount of working out will make me Stallone and I hay tried, I am happy with how I look. Absolutely not going back to any OLD platform.

I don't have "people" so it's ok I'll try make best of it and have to gritty determination to just park dating for good.

Thanks anyway.

 

Well , one thing about all that , a break will do you good right now anyway. If it was me l'd just forget women for awhile go live life , get my bearings and relax. 6-12mths is neither here nor there and very often nice things happen in life when we just say to hell with it for awhile.

 

 

 

 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

When this traumatic event is so recent and feelings are raw I don't think this is the time to make huge potentially life changing decisions.
Once things have calmed down and all is put back into perspective, then it is OK to reconsider one's initial knee jerk reaction.
No woman is worth jettisoning one's potential long term happiness for.
Now that we know this girl was likely always into older rich men, then ZA had no hope, just  in the same way had her core "type" been red haired beanpole eco warriors or hairy chubby gamers, or any other "type" you care to mention. 
Attraction is attraction, desire is desire, best not to mess with that or "force" anything as that doesn't tend to lead to long term happiness.
 

At some point I have to cut my losses and the deal I had with myself was I'd stop when I believed I have had the best experience I could and to be honest I think I have had that experience.

It's completely pointless to keep trying to do what is quite obviously impossible for me and something which I am clearly never going to find what I am looking for.

At least I know how good it can be, which is some comfort. Walking away completely is logically the best option, no signs anything is improving and as time goes on it becomes more obvious I just have no traits which are seen as assets nor can I explain away no experience either.

I just feel nothing to be honest, it is what it is nothing I can do will suddenly reverse permanent rejection. I'll sit on the sidelines and watch the game. At least looking is something I am capable of doing.

 No knee jerk reaction here just logic. If after 20 years I have no success then it's pretty obvious I am not ever going to find any.

 

[basil67]

@ZA Dater you seem to have established a good friendship with her.  Are you going to cease being her friend?

[ZA Dater]

8 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

 

 

How do you know?  If you've not done every hobby in the world, then you cannot say for certain you don't have anything in common with anyone.  This is what I mean when I say you don't try.   When's the last time you tried something new as far as a hobby?

I am not interested, I have my hobbies and I don't have time for anything else. I am just going to make the best of being permanently alone.

[ZA Dater]

6 minutes ago, basil67 said:

@ZA Dater you seem to have established a good friendship with her.  Are you going to cease being her friend?

No but it will eventually just fizzle out because guys can't be friends with ladies. This other guy is going to irritate me hugely so that will ultimately break it anyway because I won't be able to hide that very well. I did think of throwing my hat into the ring and competing directly but that would be a route to an even bigger loss because I'd be putting her into a very awkward situation.

There is once again no winning situation, is she really going to spend time with me when she is with him, I doubt it. 

[basil67]

People are quite capable of having friendships coexisting with relationships - so yes, she could make time to see you if she values your friendship.  And as she's flying to see you shortly, I'd say that she very much values you. 

Just remember that she saw you as offering her a friendship and was comfortable with this.  She took you at face value.   Problem is, you were never after friendship - your goal was a relationship.  So you've been disingenuous in the way you've presented yourself.    It's OK, you're not the only one; It's one of the classic deceptive moves made by men.   And it's a move which can bring much resentment from women - they rightfully feel like they were tricked into believing that the person really cared about the friendship.   Yes, I know that you're good at friendship and wanted to start that way, but the fact remains that she saw only friendship with no hint that your goal was something else.

If you are the honest man you believe yourself to be, you may want to reconsider walking away and honor your offer of pure friendship. without jealousy or irritation at her new boyfriend.   Either that, or accept that you are just like the guys you criticise - the ones who misrepresent themselves to women to get what they desire.

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

35 minutes ago, basil67 said:

People are quite capable of having friendships coexisting with relationships - so yes, she could make time to see you if she values your friendship.  And as she's flying to see you shortly, I'd say that she very much values you. 

Just remember that she saw you as offering her a friendship and was comfortable with this.  She took you at face value.   Problem is, you were never after friendship - your goal was a relationship.  So you've been disingenuous in the way you've presented yourself.    It's OK, you're not the only one; It's one of the classic deceptive moves made by men.   And it's a move which can bring much resentment from women - they rightfully feel like they were tricked into believing that the person really cared about the friendship.   Yes, I know that you're good at friendship and wanted to start that way, but the fact remains that she saw only friendship with no hint that your goal was something else.

If you are the honest man you believe yourself to be, you may want to reconsider walking away and honor your offer of pure friendship. without jealousy or irritation at her new boyfriend.   Either that, or accept that you are just like the guys you criticise - the ones who misrepresent themselves to women to get what they desire.

 

I'll probably just walk away. The problem inherently is I will just end up being a pity project and part of me wonders whether because she knows all the history she choose to spend time with me to actually make me feel better about it. 

If I was going to date anyone I'd always want to start from the basis of friendship but as I now know that is not possible so once again inexperience just leads to a total loss.

What I will do is just fade away over time, let her get on with her life and I'll go back to my lonely life. 

The point is I did not misrepresent myself I was brutally honest with her as to what I am and what my dating experience has been like. 

As for flying to see me, well there is lot in it for her and her brother so they would be silly not to take me up on the offer and to be clear I am doing this for no other reason that because I can for once give something back and because I can help someone out, the only thing in it for me is spending time with them. No doubt she will also use the time to see the other guy, who she often asks my opinion on and to which my responses become ever more vague, if I have nothing nice to say its better to say as little as possible.

At the moment I just feel back into the same place I have been for 20 odd years, there is no shadow of a doubt I was a nicer, more easy going, happier person when I was around her, more positive but what people do not get at least nobody around me does, I walk around with this disappointment ALL the time. People say its not a big deal, sure it is not when you do not need to live with it. I hear this rubbish "it happens to me all the time", "there are plenty of people" but the people who say that never struggle at all. 

Everyday now I will need to work on my mind to just completely somehow park this completely and move on and do whatever I can in life to try and fill this void, whilst not bathing in tons of disappointment. Its not easy more so because nobody really understands.

[basil67]

So you discount the idea that she genuinely liked you for you?  Not many people hang around those who they genuinely don't like...much less fly to see them.

I know you were honest about your past, but you misrepresented your intentions towards her.   You presented as a friend and she accepted your friendship.  But the truth was that you wanted a relationship.  When you don't get the relationship and walk away from the friendship, she'll know she was duped.

[ZA Dater]

27 minutes ago, basil67 said:

So you discount the idea that she genuinely liked you for you?  Not many people hang around those who they genuinely don't like...much less fly to see them.

I know you were honest about your past, but you misrepresented your intentions towards her.   You presented as a friend and she accepted your friendship.  But the truth was that you wanted a relationship.  When you don't get the relationship and walk away from the friendship, she'll know she was duped.

I do not really know to be honest she still sends me long voice notes and now this guy wants to come to the event I am arranging.....however she says its totally up to me if I can accommodate him, no pressure on me at all, the arrangement remains the same with her spending time with me.

Now what do I do, if I refuse (which I can on the basis there is no space at the event) I look bitter, if I allow I appear weak.

I really do not know what to do. What is apparent is this guy is pulling out every bit of stop to show off what he has and now trying to get into the same event,  not because he wants to go to the event but because I suspect I might actually be seen as competition even though I am not....

Advice please.

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Advice please.

So if this is what makes you feel good:

 

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am doing this for no other reason that because I can for once give something back and because I can help someone out,

Then the answer is clear. You find a way to accommodate him. Also as an FYI, there’s a possibility that by spending more time with him she loses interest. Most people aren’t compatible long term, and sometimes it takes awhile to figure that out. Not that you’d have ulterior motives here. You’d just be helping someone outz

[elaine567]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

there is lot in it for her and her brother

When and why did the brother get invited?

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

So if this is what makes you feel good:

 

Then the answer is clear. You find a way to accommodate him. Also as an FYI, there’s a possibility that by spending more time with him she loses interest. Most people aren’t compatible long term, and sometimes it takes awhile to figure that out. Not that you’d have ulterior motives here. You’d just be helping someone outz

I actually cant accommodate him as the event is fully subscribed. He had dinner with her family last night so yea I will take the loss here, I got to hear all about this during todays voice note.

There is a limit to how much I will help and my limit is this.

Unfortunately I know culturally ladies like you do not ever tend to loose interest, the more he can roll out the better his chances are, roll out seemingly perfection and you will seldom be on the end of a loss provided there is not some fundamental issue with you as a person.

 

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

When and why did the brother get invited?

He has always wanted to go to an event like this so I invited him too. Its quite an exclusive event which many people would like to go to but few ever do. Twenty odd years ago I was invited to the event, 15 years later it was me planning and running the event. From guest to the person in charge. 

One of my good stories.

[basil67]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Now what do I do, if I refuse (which I can on the basis there is no space at the event) I look bitter, if I allow I appear weak.

I really do not know what to do. What is apparent is this guy is pulling out every bit of stop to show off what he has and now trying to get into the same event,  not because he wants to go to the event but because I suspect I might actually be seen as competition even though I am not....

You won't look weak if you allow him to come.  Remember, she thinks you are her friend...and a friend would welcome her new boyfriend.   So, you would look like a good friend and gracious host.

Regarding him wanting to show off what he's got, I doubt this guy is thinking that at all.   She's pitched you as a nice friend, so he's happy to meet you.  And apparently your event is looking good...and he wants to come with his girl.

If you were truly a good friend, this would all be 100% positive. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by basil67

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, basil67 said:

If you were truly a good friend, this would all be 100% positive

Only he is the reluctant friend and the unrequited lover.
I do agree that this guy is probably oblivious to ZA Dater.
He will not be aware of the competition, and even if he is, he has probably dismissed ZA as being of no real threat.
He is the one who is actually dating the girl and has got his feet well under the table, meeting her family sounds serious.
I am a bit worried that ZA is being used here, she has wangled her way into a prestigious event by batting her eyelids, got her brother an invite and now wants one for her bf...

ZA, be careful.  

[Weezy1973]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I actually cant accommodate him as the event is fully subscribed.

 

You’re running the event. I’m sure you can find a way. That’s what friends do.

[ZA Dater]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

If you were truly a good friend, this would all be 100% positive. 

It is not as the event is fully subscribed and I wont be bending over backward to break the rules for a guy who suddenly realizes he needs to attend this event, going as far as to make special arrangements to try and make this possible, these making him look even more fancy and a "catch".

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Only he is the reluctant friend and the unrequited lover.
I do agree that this guy is probably oblivious to ZA Dater.
He will not be aware of the competition, and even if he is, he has probably dismissed ZA as being of no real threat.
He is the one who is actually dating the girl and has got his feet well under the table, meeting her family sounds serious.
I am a bit worried that ZA is being used here, she has wangled her way into a prestigious event by batting her eyelids, got her brother an invite and now wants one for her bf...

ZA, be careful.  

I am not sure he is so oblivious, every time I have been around her he is very uncomfortable and I can go all work like where I deal with guys like him most days so intimidated I am not. He is aware of some form of competition, why the sudden need to attend this, under pretense of a day with his dad....yeah sure. More the interesting point she seems to want to keep him distanced from me, I have no issue with the guy I just find his desperate behavior comical. 

Don't worry I am always getting used in some form or another, its the only way I can keep some company around me for minute periods of time. She got into the event by melting my cold heart and giving me an experience I have wanted for 20 odd years so at the end of the day her and I are even.