Can this work

[Weezy1973]

17 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It was a nice day but I just cannot escape the "not good enough" feeling, I'd love to know what the cure for that is.

It comes down to, as I’ve said many times, your core beliefs and thoughts. 
 

While I don’t subscribe to everything on this list, most of this is pretty good:

https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the-10-thought-habits-of-people-with-high-self-worth/

[ZA Dater]

5 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

It comes down to, as I’ve said many times, your core beliefs and thoughts. 
 

While I don’t subscribe to everything on this list, most of this is pretty good:

https://www.wholelifechallenge.com/the-10-thought-habits-of-people-with-high-self-worth/

Thanks can't say many of those make me feel any better. At 37 I am as useless as j was at 22. Sure I have improved, I can be more open less shy but for me the result does matter and these are no better. It's pointless being better if you aren't seen as being attractive...

I suspect she probably has realised I do like her hence the distance now. It's for exactly this reason when on the very rare occasions I really like someone I show that subtly because I know I am going to get rejected.

I believe I can date her but she does not see me as being viable so not a lot I can do about that really, I only really chased this idea because of how she makes me feel. 

One thing I did do was delete all my OLD apps because I know I have probably reached the best I am likely to get from a experience point of view. Deleting those did make me feel slightly better.

[Weezy1973]

57 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Thanks can't say many of those make me feel any better.

That’s because you don’t believe them. 

 

58 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I believe I can date her but she does not see me as being viable so not a lot I can do about that really,

Nothing you can do about it. It’s not personal. But you can do something about how you react. 

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I only really chased this idea because of how she makes me feel. 

Chasing feelings rarely ends well...

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

One thing I did do was delete all my OLD apps because I know I have probably reached the best I am likely to get from a experience point of view. Deleting those did make me feel slightly better.

I suspect this is temporary...

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s because you don’t believe them. 

 

Nothing you can do about it. It’s not personal. But you can do something about how you react. 

 

Chasing feelings rarely ends well...

 

I suspect this is temporary...

So what should I chase then exactly? Serious question because if I feel nothing the entire excercise becomes pointless and pretty much a job interview...

Not really the apps have nothing to offer me at all. That much is quite clear. 

My friend, believing them is one thing, they just aren't very helpful at all when I weigh them against my lack of any sort of real success.

My other reaction to this was to once again go looking at arrangements but to remove that temptation I deleted that profile too. Once again that's not going to offer me what I am looking for. 

All I can really do is accept that something like this is quite beyond the reach of guys like me. That's just the reality of it, deleting apps means I don't need go match with unsuitable people. There is no good feeling matching with people I do not find attractive. 

I'll just find something else to try focus on but that huge sense of being completely alone is back. Maybe if I had some other equivalent options this would not be so bad but I do not.

Thanks anyway

 

 

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

So what should I chase then exactly?

Your lack of experience doesn’t help you here. What you’ll find in relationships is that after the initial excitement, you go back to your baseline feelings. It can take anywhere from six months to two years. If you’re relying on dating someone to feel better about yourself, it won’t work. 

[elaine567]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

All I can really do is accept that something like this is quite beyond the reach of guys like me.

Yes and you need to sit down and have a very good talk with yourself.
Chasing IG models who have 40K followers was never going to work for you, no matter how subtle or friendly your approach...
Yes she may have been a bit "tarnished" by her life events but she is no doubt still looking for top tier men to date.
She needs to use her looks  to get a guy who has money, prestige and charm.
It is her destiny.
She has a small window to get that guy, she can't afford to mess around, her son is depending on her.
 
Daydreaming about women who never in a million years will be attracted to you or want to date you, is a fool's errand.
You have  20 years of experience of that.
We(gen) all grow out of celebrity crushes and idolising the beautiful people, we learn to find real attainable people attractive.  
Which they are, when you take off the "seeking the wow factor" glasses...
I get the  "nothing is impossible" mentality, but the reality is many things in this life ARE impossible and to ignore that is not conducive to a happy life.
Facing interminable, insurmountable challenges and always failing, hurts and chips away at the soul.
Most learn that lesson pretty quick, but you seem determined to keep doing the same stuff with the same results.
In fact this girl sounds even more unobtainable than the others, so you have learned absolutely nothing it appears.
 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Yes and you need to sit down and have a very good talk with yourself.
Chasing IG models who have 40K followers was never going to work for you, no matter how subtle or friendly your approach...
Yes she may have been a bit "tarnished" by her life events but she is no doubt still looking for top tier men to date.
She needs to use her looks  to get a guy who has money, prestige and charm.
It is her destiny.
She has a small window to get that guy, she can't afford to mess around, her son is depending on her.
 
Daydreaming about women who never in a million years will be attracted to you or want to date you, is a fool's errand.
You have  20 years of experience of that.
We(gen) all grow out of celebrity crushes and idolising the beautiful people, we learn to find real attainable people attractive.  
Which they are, when you take off the "seeking the wow factor" glasses...
I get the  "nothing is impossible" mentality, but the reality is many things in this life ARE impossible and to ignore that is not conducive to a happy life.
Facing interminable, insurmountable challenges and always failing, hurts and chips away at the soul.
Most learn that lesson pretty quick, but you seem determined to keep doing the same stuff with the same results.
In fact this girl sounds even more unobtainable than the others, so you have learned absolutely nothing it appears.
 

That's all very well but I assume your suggestion is to just lower my standards and settle. 

Which will not happen.

I don't like OLD and it's not working for me, sometimes I wish I could properly explain what I don't like about my OLD matches but suffice to say they are all wholly unattractive overall. I have spent probably 6 full days with this lady and the conversation just flows, there is give and take. Never ever does this happen with dates I have had. 

Well I the inexperienced dater went head to head with her date yesterday and if nothing else I suspect I actually ended up looking better than he did. He certainly was not too tier either, I was more confident and outgoing in the conversation.

I decided this time I am NOT going to roll over and admit defeat so easily. She wants to see me and spend time with me so that's positive as far as I am concerned. Instead this time I am actually going to try and invest and see what happens.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Your lack of experience doesn’t help you here. What you’ll find in relationships is that after the initial excitement, you go back to your baseline feelings. It can take anywhere from six months to two years. If you’re relying on dating someone to feel better about yourself, it won’t work. 

Well I just like being around her and spending time with her so those are the base feelings. She is warm and friendly.

The better part is because finally I have a win of some sort so yes I am quite enjoying that. Decades of losses..

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Well I the inexperienced dater went head to head with her date yesterday and if nothing else I suspect I actually ended up looking better than he did.

You are fighting for a woman who has friendzoned you.
Why are you doing that?
By making her potential bf (a guy she has actually chosen on some level), look bad, it will not endear you to her.
She wanted you to support her choice, not tear him down. 
IF she wanted you, she would  not be bringing you around her date. It is not as if she needs to make you jealous.
She knows one snap of her fingers and you would be putty...
No-one really wants a rejected suitor/orbiter/friend who is going to try to chase away guys who are interested and want to date her.
You are not her Dad.
 

How old is she btw?
 

Edited February 28, 2021 by elaine567

[ZA Dater]

41 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You are fighting for a woman who has friendzoned you.
Why are you doing that?
By making her potential bf (a guy she has actually chosen on some level), look bad, it will not endear you to her.
She wanted you to support her choice, not tear him down. 
IF she wanted you, she would  not be bringing you around her date. It is not as if she needs to make you jealous.
She knows one snap of her fingers and you would be putty...
No-one really wants a rejected suitor/orbiter/friend who is going to try to chase away guys who are interested and want to date her.
You are not her Dad.
 

How old is she btw?
 

I did not make him look bad he did that all by himself by being awkward among the group of us and then showing some fairly poor manners. It was fun to be on the other side of this for a change.

She is early 30s. 

I don't see any reason why I can't chase, she was set up with this guy, wasn't like he was a normal pick.

[Trail Blazer]

Dude, I am so rooting for you to land this IG model with 40K followers!  Imagine holding out for 37 years, staying true to yourself by not settling, and actually landing this unicorn of a woman!?

In all honesty, what percentage of chance do you give yourself here?  Do you feel there's any, even a scrap of tangible romantic feelings she'd potentially harbor for you, or no?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The better part is because finally I have a win of some sort so yes I am quite enjoying that. Decades of losses..

Your comments about her are very similar to how you used to talk about “K”. Do you consider K a win as well?

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Your comments about her are very similar to how you used to talk about “K”. Do you consider K a win as well?

No K was never single and K was work abs business which is what I liked about her but K is not nearly as warm in personality.

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Dude, I am so rooting for you to land this IG model with 40K followers!  Imagine holding out for 37 years, staying true to yourself by not settling, and actually landing this unicorn of a woman!?

In all honesty, what percentage of chance do you give yourself here?  Do you feel there's any, even a scrap of tangible romantic feelings she'd potentially harbor for you, or no?

In some respects this is like gambling and betting everything on 28 red. I am not sure she has any feelings towards me barring the fact she seems to enjoy my company. 

I never really give myself much of a chance because usually I never find someone I REALLY like. She is so down to earth and nice unlike many people I have met. 

Seems her date today went ok without being majorly good. To be honest with you even if nothing happens with her I can basically say I have had 99% of what I want and could probably throw in the towel on dating completely if nothing comes of this.

[dramafreezone]

16 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

 

All I can really do is accept that something like this is quite beyond the reach of guys like me.

 

 

What you're not realizing is that you have a lot of control over what type of guy you are.  It's not just set in stone.  Your insecurities have a stranglehold over you.  You aren't motivated at all to make any positive changes in your life that would make you more attractive to the type of woman that you're attracted to.  That's really the bottom line and until you get past that everyone here will continue to talk in circles with you.

[ZA Dater]

25 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

What you're not realizing is that you have a lot of control over what type of guy you are.  It's not just set in stone.  Your insecurities have a stranglehold over you.  You aren't motivated at all to make any positive changes in your life that would make you more attractive to the type of woman that you're attracted to.  That's really the bottom line and until you get past that everyone here will continue to talk in circles with you.

I am not interested in drinking, clubbing or going to either church or trance parties. But yes I agree on that rest hence the reason I an going to actually try more and roll over less easily this time because this is someone I really do like and enjoy spending time with.

I am the type of caring guy, I enjoy spending time with people I can converse with easily. Simple things like going for a walk are nice things to do. You are totally right I have to some extent absolute control hence why I have gone way out of my comfort zone this time.

[dramafreezone]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am not interested in drinking, clubbing or going to either church or trance parties. But yes I agree on that rest hence the reason I an going to actually try more and roll over less easily this time because this is someone I really do like and enjoy spending time with.

I am the type of caring guy, I enjoy spending time with people I can converse with easily. Simple things like going for a walk are nice things to do. You are totally right I have to some extent absolute control hence why I have gone way out of my comfort zone this time.

I just picked up on something.  You say you're a "caring guy."  It seems like all of your good qualities are described in the context of what you do for or how you appear to others.  But when it comes to yourself I don't think you're very caring at all.  You self-loathe constantly on here, put youself down, put others above yourself, and that's the opposite of caring, it's hate.  So it seems to me that there's asymmetry between what you want to project and your internal reality. 

That is probably a huge reason of why you're experiencing so much difficulty, and why women on a funadmental level aren't attracted to you.  It doesn't have anything to do with you not drinking, partying, clubbing or any of that.  Women are *extraordinarily* intuitive when it comes to emotional intelligence, so they can sniff someone who's presenting a front that's not congruent with their internal psyche, and they don't trust people that appear at conflict with themselves.  This is why a lot of "good guys" get rejected.  Contrast that with the "bad boy"; the "bad boy" persona is attractive not because of their actions or because women like jerks, but because what they present on the outside is who they are on the inside, women can sense it and at least these men can be trusted to be themselves.

If you want to be caring, great, but that doesn't stop at being caring towards others, it's treating yourself with that same level of caring in terms of your physical, psychological and emotional health.

Edited February 28, 2021 by dramafreezone

[ZA Dater]

30 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

I just picked up on something.  You say you're a "caring guy."  It seems like all of your good qualities are described in the context of what you do for or how you appear to others.  But when it comes to yourself I don't think you're very caring at all.  You self-loathe constantly on here, put youself down, put others above yourself, and that's the opposite of caring, it's hate.  So it seems to me that there's asymmetry between what you want to project and your internal reality. 

That is probably a huge reason of why you're experiencing so much difficulty, and why women on a funadmental level aren't attracted to you.  It doesn't have anything to do with you not drinking, partying, clubbing or any of that.  Women are *extraordinarily* intuitive when it comes to emotional intelligence, so they can sniff someone who's presenting a front that's not congruent with their internal psyche, and they don't trust people that appear at conflict with themselves.  This is why a lot of "good guys" get rejected.  Contrast that with the "bad boy"; the "bad boy" persona is attractive not because of their actions or because women like jerks, but because what they present on the outside is who they are on the inside, women can sense it and at least these men can be trusted to be themselves.

If you want to be caring, great, but that doesn't stop at being caring towards others, it's treating yourself with that same level of caring in terms of your physical, psychological and emotional health.

Sure, you might have a point but I am extremely hard on myself because I am trying to find some success.

Maybe I have been friend zoned here but maybe in time that could be turned around, no matter how slim the odds. Its FAR preferable to sitting on dating sites going on dates with people I do not find attractive overall.

[dramafreezone]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure, you might have a point but I am extremely hard on myself because I am trying to find some success.

Maybe I have been friend zoned here but maybe in time that could be turned around, no matter how slim the odds. Its FAR preferable to sitting on dating sites going on dates with people I do not find attractive overall.

Say you did hit it off with this woman, and she fell in love with you.  What do you think that would look like?  Would you be happier?  How would your life change?

[jspice]

5 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I did not make him look bad he did that all by himself by being awkward among the group of us and then showing some fairly poor manners. It was fun to be on the other side of this for a change.

She is early 30s. 

I don't see any reason why I can't chase, she was set up with this guy, wasn't like he was a normal pick.

You sound like an a**h*** here. That’s a**h*** behaviour. 
If you think a woman wants someone who isn’t gracious you’re mad. 

[ZA Dater]

49 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

Say you did hit it off with this woman, and she fell in love with you.  What do you think that would look like?  Would you be happier?  How would your life change?

No idea because I have never experienced that before. That is about the most honest answer I can give you.

You need to remember one thing I have had NO success at dating EVER. Hence why I look at the smallest of things being victories of some sort. For me I need these small wins as motivation to continue.

The big win would be as you describe, being defeated all the time does take its tole, it would on anyone. It become frustrating and after a while I think I just turned emotions off because every person I went on a date with was pretty much exactly the same as the prior person. Its not like I sat on those dates and did not try, I certainly did but I got nothing back in terms conversation and even less in terms of "well I really enjoy being around her". 

Would my life change, I do not know but what I do know is I would not be walking around with extreme level of loneliness I feel at least 75% of the time. 

Normal Person can take the credit for the fact that this time I am actually going to walk in the centre of the ring and hopefully I do not get clobbered to the ground. I am realistic to the point of knowing the odds are probably not in my favour but I also know what I do bring, I know what I am good at, I know my good qualities and I stand by all of those things. The big difference now is I think I am sitting in front of someone who actually might value those qualities whereas almost none of my dates have ever valued my good qualities. In short I need to try and see what happens, even though I actually have no idea what I am doing.

[ZA Dater]

51 minutes ago, jspice said:

You sound like an a**h*** here. That’s a**h*** behaviour. 
If you think a woman wants someone who isn’t gracious you’re mad. 

You are not fond of me anyway so this response is no real surprise. FYI its water off a ducks back,  have had worse.

Clearly you did not read .....it was different to not be sitting in the guys position for once and as merely an observer. Anyway she seems to be indifferent toward him so who knows, I am sure you are hoping I take another big loss on this, which is alright, my life mission is to prove people wrong, simply because if I accepted what is I'd have nothing now and be the nothing most people thought I would be. See, even growing up I was not normal.

 

 

[dramafreezone]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

No idea because I have never experienced that before. That is about the most honest answer I can give you.

You need to remember one thing I have had NO success at dating EVER. Hence why I look at the smallest of things being victories of some sort. For me I need these small wins as motivation to continue.

The big win would be as you describe, being defeated all the time does take its tole, it would on anyone. It become frustrating and after a while I think I just turned emotions off because every person I went on a date with was pretty much exactly the same as the prior person. Its not like I sat on those dates and did not try, I certainly did but I got nothing back in terms conversation and even less in terms of "well I really enjoy being around her". 

Would my life change, I do not know but what I do know is I would not be walking around with extreme level of loneliness I feel at least 75% of the time. 

Normal Person can take the credit for the fact that this time I am actually going to walk in the centre of the ring and hopefully I do not get clobbered to the ground. I am realistic to the point of knowing the odds are probably not in my favour but I also know what I do bring, I know what I am good at, I know my good qualities and I stand by all of those things. The big difference now is I think I am sitting in front of someone who actually might value those qualities whereas almost none of my dates have ever valued my good qualities. In short I need to try and see what happens, even though I actually have no idea what I am doing.

I guess the reason I'm asking is so that you can ask yourself what do you want besides this physical female vessel.  The woman has more to her than her body, sexual activity is a very small part of a relationship, so it's imperative that you begin to contemplate what type of woman you want in your life, what value she would add to yours and what value you would add to hers.  If you think this woman by herself is going to cure loneliness then you're mistaken.  You're beginning from a broken state, so there's a strong risk that your unhappiness will worsen.  You'll wonder why you have this woman that you wanted so much, yet you're still unhappy.

A fundamental principle of being in a strong relationship is having the ability to be content by yourself.  If you're not beginning with that, then no relationship can ever be a great one.  No person will ever live up to your expectations, so you need to be certain that you're content as is, and a woman is just complementing an already fulfilling life.  To be honest you shouldn't even think about dating until you get to that place.

[elaine567]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well I the inexperienced dater went head to head with her date yesterday and if nothing else I suspect I actually ended up looking better than he did. He certainly was not too tier either, I was more confident and outgoing in the conversation.

5 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

.it was different to not be sitting in the guys position for once and as merely an observer.

So which one was it. you went head to head with him and, perceived by you, came away the victor, or you merely sat and observed?

[ZA Dater]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So which one was it. you went head to head with him and, perceived by you, came away the victor, or you merely sat and observed?

I partook in a conversation where me and 4 others including him contributed, however he very quickly ran out of contribution to the conversation, I stepped back let three others converse to try and get him back into the conversation, I then engaged with him about sport and brought him back in the conversation, my point being is he could not lead a conversation, whereas I am quite happy to lead a conversation. 

Perhaps the perception on this forum is I am completely inept socially which is not really the case.