Can this work

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Is tonight the night?

It's really been very good this weekend, again so much of this just feels good, its just very nice meaningful interaction which does not make a lot of sense.

For whatever reason I just feel something here, I think it's because she is so attentive and gives so much back that I give more back in return. Just feels really good, I have brought out as much confidence as I can, the least serious part of me, opened myself up and I just love spending time with her and her baby.

This is a really nice feeling to have and anyway I have written her a note, let's see and I really think I may just also tell her that I love spending time with her, though I make that very obvious.

Once again so much about this is good. I really could not have imagined a nicer weekey.

[ZA Dater]

"I had an amazing weekend, thank you so much, I have not laughed so much for a very long time, it was really just perfect". 

[Weezy1973]

9 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

"I had an amazing weekend, thank you so much, I have not laughed so much for a very long time, it was really just perfect". 

Cool. Are you going to let her know you’re interested in something more than just friendship?

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Cool. Are you going to let her know you’re interested in something more than just friendship?

Yes I did. 

"So I finally got to buy you dinner in a round about way, maybe we should do this more often" smiles and giggles from her.

"I am going to really miss you two (her and baby)" big hug from her

"I know a really great place I would like to take you to" "sure lets talk during the week".

For what its worth I had the advice of this forum swirling around in my mind for most of the weekend. Look I know I am in with an outside chance here but it would seem I did quite well this weekend and I cant really explain but its great to just share experiences with someone I really enjoy being around. Baby is fairly besotted with me too, I have always liked kids which confounds most of what people think about me. 

Feeling quite good at the moment.

 

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Feeling quite good at the moment.

OMG, are you ill?

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

OMG, are you ill?

Just nice to have a nice experience for the change! Probably over played my hand now but lets see.

[elaine567]

Finger's crossed.

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

Finger's crossed.

Well I have some positive confidence now, instead of loss after loss I have some positive progress. Its very different going on a coffee date to basically living with someone for 3 day, the reality I have effectively "lived" with her for probably two weeks cumulatively. I have been so lonely most of my life that this is a very refreshing to have such good company, I feel relaxed, I can throw in some humour, smile more, laugh more and remove the staggering weight I had on my shoulders. Its also good to just be me, get out from my shell for a bit.

And yes the baby does comprehensively melt my heart. 

[ZA Dater]

Ok so the dice was rolled "thank you so much for an amazing piece of writing, it really touched my heart, I am so lucky to have a friend like you".  Well done to those on this forum (Weezy, Normal Person and others please stand up while I applaud you for being right).

Oh well at least I tried.

That is always the thing, attraction is there or it is not. Nothing I can actually do can actually make me attractive if I am not attractive to begin with. Now I get the ring side seats to see her wonder back into the dating world. At this point Elaine can stand up and I'll applaud her because like everyone else she was correct too. 

Not sure how to feel about all of this, I sort of expected this sort of outcome but a part of me thought that just maybe I had a chance but like everyone has said you cant move out of the friendzone and to be truthful I cant really do anything that puts me in the romance zone either. 

All I can do is really enjoy her company, which I do tremendously, at least for once I have seen everything that is REALLY good but the "problem" now is the bar has been raised so high that honestly I wont ever find the same again. Its how everything works, the conversation, yes she is physically stunning but she has a beautiful personality too so there are lines and lines of guys after her (based on looks alone I suspect), many of them the very same type I have spent 20 years competing against. I am not even going to bother this time. I just know I'll feel sad if I do.

So thanks everyone its back to my mundane life but it was certainly good to feel of what makes personal connections so special.

 

 

[normal person]

You did things your way, which, after all is said and done, is ok (?) as you're the only one here affected by any of this. If you stepped out of your comfort zone and took chances you wouldn't have otherwise, then maybe it's a victory for you, if you see it that way -- you're the only one whose opinion on it really matters. If you're happy, if your life is better than it was before, then great. I just hope for your sake that you're not lying to yourself overall and this isn't just an emotional bandaid. 

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Nothing I can actually do can actually make me attractive if I am not attractive to begin with.

Refer to one of my earlier posts about disengaging from her a bit, have successes in life outside of "simply being her friend" that she can see. If you can make her realize that she's actually missing out on a lot, and that you're focused on things that don't include her, she may start to turn. But it won't happen if she feels like you worship her, you need to change that dynamic first and foremost.  

[Weezy1973]

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

That is always the thing, attraction is there or it is not. Nothing I can actually do can actually make me attractive if I am not attractive to begin with.

Likely nothing you could have done to make yourself attractive to her. But that doesn’t mean you are not attractive to begin with. 

 

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Well done to those on this forum (Weezy, Normal Person and others please stand up while I applaud you for being right).

Being right doesn’t mean much, but if you can acknowledge why we were right is because we have experience and have learned from our failures and changed how we approached things, that might go a long way towards you taking some of the advice you’re given on these threads. 

 

8 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have seen everything that is REALLY good but the "problem" now is the bar has been raised so high that honestly I wont ever find the same again.

You haven’t seen everything that is really good, as you haven’t been in a romantic relationship yet. Those are really good. You’ve met someone that you are really attracted to and you enjoy spending time with. And you had similar “I won’t ever find it again” sentiments with K. Yet here we are.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

Likely nothing you could have done to make yourself attractive to her. But that doesn’t mean you are not attractive to begin with. 

 

Being right doesn’t mean much, but if you can acknowledge why we were right is because we have experience and have learned from our failures and changed how we approached things, that might go a long way towards you taking some of the advice you’re given on these threads. 

 

You haven’t seen everything that is really good, as you haven’t been in a romantic relationship yet. Those are really good. You’ve met someone that you are really attracted to and you enjoy spending time with. And you had similar “I won’t ever find it again” sentiments with K. Yet here we are.

K never gives me this level of interaction, I maybe speak to K once a month versus everyday with this lady. I need to take stock of everything, feeling quite defeated which I realize is also wrong but the issue is I did tell her I really enjoyed spending time with her which I guess was a mistake, that is the problem with me I simply say the wrong things, when I say how I feel its always "wrong" so rarely do I ever really say how I feel.

I do think she realizes I was keen in a romantic way so I think she will move away from me now because its clearly not something that interests her and I have the same horrible feeling I have always have.

The truth is I simply do not interact with enough people to have any real opportunities, this was just a case of luck. It was the first time ever though I got to step out of my own shadow and share, like really share my thoughts and emotions. Unfortunately the sense of loss is even more profound now.

All I can do is just carry on with life, pick myself up again and simply recognize that I might as well try the commercial arrangements route because that is seemingly the only way out for me but even these people there is never any connection and because its commercial the lavish attention like there is no tomorrow but its so fake I simply cannot enjoy it. 

What I have realized more is how lonely I am. I genuinely miss them.

[BaileyB]

8 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What I have realized more is how lonely I am. I genuinely miss them.

Here’s the thing, there are more women out there who may genuinely like to date you. If you are able to open your mind a little more, you may just find this kind of happiness again... 

[ZA Dater]

3 hours ago, normal person said:

You did things your way, which, after all is said and done, is ok (?) as you're the only one here affected by any of this. If you stepped out of your comfort zone and took chances you wouldn't have otherwise, then maybe it's a victory for you, if you see it that way -- you're the only one whose opinion on it really matters. If you're happy, if your life is better than it was before, then great. I just hope for your sake that you're not lying to yourself overall and this isn't just an emotional bandaid. 

Refer to one of my earlier posts about disengaging from her a bit, have successes in life outside of "simply being her friend" that she can see. If you can make her realize that she's actually missing out on a lot, and that you're focused on things that don't include her, she may start to turn. But it won't happen if she feels like you worship her, you need to change that dynamic first and foremost.  

I did yes, I sent her a piece of writing I did which in part was inspired by a shared experience we had which gave me the response I mentioned above. I have really tried to show all the things I have going on in life but I suspect she simply wants an older more successful guy, like 17 years older than her. I took more chances than ever before here because I saw how good this could be and crucially how it could work, the problem is I take a "results" based approach. The fact of the matter is she says she is my friend but is she really, I suspect I have messed up that dynamic totally so effectively I have lost everything.

My life is actually worse because after living with that void in my life so long, it felt how good it was to have that filled in such a wholesome way and now its gone, yes I am better for having experienced that but deep down I know I wont ever find that dynamic again because honestly I could not find fault with anything. It was everything I wanted, I would not change one thing at all. 

She wont turn because she is has been set up with a 47yo guy, more successful than me but considerably more boring her other two friends have really done a fantastic job of selling this guy to her because obvious issues are overlooked It just hurts that at nearly 37 I simply still cannot get this right and always end up on the loosing end of things. For me this made me realize how much I have missed out on and it is significant. How I put that thought out of my mind I do not know. 

Went for a long cycle but that did not really help, even resorted to a stupid coffee date from an arrangement site but that was an expensive waste of money and frankly made me feel worse.

[ZA Dater]

2 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Here’s the thing, there are more women out there who may genuinely like to date you. If you are able to open your mind a little more, you may just find this kind of happiness again... 

Unless the entire package of personality, looks, class, education, world experience, approach to life are there I am not really interested. As this stupid arrangement date just proved, it was a complete waste of time, I felt nothing for here or any inclination to spend any sort of time with her, an expensive waste of time. 20 years of looking suggests that very few like me and it back on the hamster wheel of OLD and I not prepared to do that again when its never ever worked. Unfortunately to be honest many of the very best experiences I have had in life have been fleeting, for example I enjoyed a Riva Powerboat for a day, drove a Ferrari for a day, got given a Ferrari to do as many laps I wanted around a race track, spent time at a very luxurious resort for a weekend, met some interesting people for a few hours, visited some incredibly properties, had some very lavish meals but not too many. Tasted some rare expensive wine so my point I chase the experiences and THIS time I have had about two weeks of the very best experience because I could completely open myself up, she smiles at me, laughs with me, wake up in the morning and she is in the kitchen with baby, smiling and happy, he smiles and giggles at me. Going to lunches and breakfasts, free open communication. I do not need to make things work here, they just do and I am inclined to be the very best person I can because that horrible lonely void is not there anymore.

Back when I was 20 I imagined what this might be like and spent years and years chasing this experience  but the reality is it is better than I could imagine, she knows this about me. That is the thing she knows EVERYTHING about me and still engages with me like that, still spends days with me, still chats to me everyday and this is a LOT more than anyone else has ever done for me, I stepped way out of my comfort zone this time and because I felt instantly comfortable. I compare this to the dates I have been on and they do not really compare, for me this is about the best I could ever have hoped for. Sadly I am just not good enough to compete at this level, thats really what it boils down to. Just wish I could make myself feel better right now.

Thank you for your posts because they are always so supportive.

[elaine567]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

She wont turn because she is has been set up with a 47yo guy, more successful than me but considerably more boring her other two friends have really done a fantastic job of selling this guy to her because obvious issues are overlooked

But she is a person in her own right surely? She doesn't need friends telling her who she should or shouldn't date.
If she wasn't interested in older guys, she would not have married one, nor would she have gone on so many dates with this guy. He may be boring to you, but you are not her. 
Attraction is a weird thing, people are often not  attracted to the people we expect them to be, and can be highly attracted to people, who we may think are strange choices.
Yes he has money, but there may be a lot more to it. What they get up to behind closed doors may be off the scale, for all you or any of us knows. 
You have put her on a pedestal, but SHE decided to reject you as a romantic prospect and friend-zoned you... no-one else.
This may take some time to get over, but it is a learning experience.
Most of us here learned pretty quickly that chasing people out of our league or people looking for a certain "type" i.e. not us, was a complete waste of our time and it ends up hurting real bad.
Next time we don't even bother... next time we look for someone who is more on our level and compatible.
Chasing after rainbows is a fool's game.

[ZA Dater]

11 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

But she is a person in her own right surely? She doesn't need friends telling her who she should or shouldn't date.
If she wasn't interested in older guys, she would not have married one, nor would she have gone on so many dates with this guy. He may be boring to you, but you are not her. 
Attraction is a weird thing, people are often not  attracted to the people we expect them to be, and can be highly attracted to people, who we may think are strange choices.
Yes he has money, but there may be a lot more to it. What they get up to behind closed doors may be off the scale, for all you or any of us knows. 
You have put her on a pedestal, but SHE decided to reject you as a romantic prospect and friend-zoned you... no-one else.
This may take some time to get over, but it is a learning experience.
Most of us here learned pretty quickly that chasing people out of our league or people looking for a certain "type" i.e. not us, was a complete waste of our time and it ends up hurting real bad.
Next time we don't even bother... next time we look for someone who is more on our level and compatible.
Chasing after rainbows is a fool's game.

The solution is to just give up. She can't get up to anything as baby is around her 24/7. 

I will just console myself that at least I am good enough to be a friend, she said she is very lucky to have a friend like me but that me is a "reject and let him down gently" method.

Dunno why I keep bothering because I really feel awful at the moment but it was also really good but inexperience once again has cost me. At least I have good memories.

[elaine567]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

She can't get up to anything as baby is around her 24/7. 

Are you being serious???

[elaine567]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

inexperience once again has cost me.

Yes but I guess  not in the way you think it has.
Experience would have taught you to leave this girl well alone and not get involved.

[ZA Dater]

17 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Yes but I guess  not in the way you think it has.
Experience would have taught you to leave this girl well alone and not get involved.

You and I will never agree on this. I like what I like. Simple as that, I can't live life with zero ability to chase what I like, sure I am going to face massive losses and get bludgeoned every time but that person who makes me feel nothing will result in a loss every bit as bad because I just would not be interested.

At least chasing what I like means I at least have tried to get what I want.

[ZA Dater]

23 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Are you being serious???

Yes, I am one of the very few people he will spend time with, I can walk around with him, giggles at me, smiles, with everyone else he cries. At least I'll be a good baby sitter lol. But seriously this is another example where what I am good at is totally useless and irrelevant, much like most of my life I guess.

Anyone got any ideas how to distract myself, make myself feel a bit better?

[BaileyB]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Unless the entire package of personality, looks, class, education, world experience, approach to life are there I am not really interested.

And that is why you are single.

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I like what I like.

Yes, you certainly do. And, what has that gotten you - friend and babysitter? 

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Experience would have taught you to leave this girl well alone and not get involved.

Indeed. To be adaptable means that when something is not working, you need to change your approach. Change your thinking.

Experience here should mean that you can’t befriend a beautiful woman and expect her to fall in love - life isn’t a rom-com. Experience here should mean if you really want to find a woman to share you life, you need to expand your horizons and open yourself to opportunity.

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

At least chasing what I like means I at least have tried to get what I want.

If you say so. It also means you are eating alone and posting on a forum about how lonely you are...

I’m not actually saying this to be unkind. Please know that - if you want what you experienced this weekend and more, you NEED to open yourself to more possibilities. It is possible, but only if you decide to pursue a woman who is actually available and interested. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by BaileyB

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Unless the entire package of personality, looks, class, education, world experience, approach to life are there I am not really interested.

I knew you were looking for a unicorn, but this is a seriously elite unicorn.    The only man who has a chance getting this unicorn is one who can match her on all levels....and I'm guesing that's about 5% of men.

I understand that this is what you want, but why do you get so upset and complain about being 'battered" when you're no different to the other 95% of men who can't attain this?  

 

 

[ZA Dater]

7 hours ago, BaileyB said:

 

Yes, you certainly do. And, what has that gotten you - friend and babysitter? 

I’m not actually saying this to be unkind. Please know that - if you want what you experienced this weekend and more, you NEED to open yourself to more possibilities. It is possible, but only if you decide to pursue a woman who is actually available and interested. 

Nobody is available and interested. I tried three dates with one person, I just felt nothing, the conversation was non existent and it was just a waste of time. Sorry but people who cannot look after themselves are also out of the question too. If I can then they can. 

So no frankly I'd rather just be miserable and lament the fact I am not good enough and never will be for the very few people I meet and find attractive. Bottom line I am simply not good enough.

It's not possible for me if I have to pretend to like someone and force myself to do that. Even paying for dates would be better than that and that in itself is a pretty awful experience.

Again maybe I just need to accept it's not possible for me but a huge part of me just feels totally defeated. I suppose at least I have a good friend and maybe that is the absolute best I can do. Maybe I have done well to even get that far.

Looking around me I just don't believe that everyone had to settle, surely they feel some sort of genuine attraction to their partner? I am not going back onto OLD again because it's the same matches for the last 20 years and if anything that's even more demotivating.

At the end of the day it's me who does not measure up, never have and never will I guess. 

Need to drag myself through another day and pretend to everyone I am feeling fantastic. That's very hard to do.

[ZA Dater]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

I knew you were looking for a unicorn, but this is a seriously elite unicorn.    The only man who has a chance getting this unicorn is one who can match her on all levels....and I'm guesing that's about 5% of men.

I understand that this is what you want, but why do you get so upset and complain about being 'battered" when you're no different to the other 95% of men who can't attain this?  

 

 

Not really when I see the pack chasing her, it's the same sort of guys I can never win against, the charm and charisma and the flipping false selling. It's on her that she actually buys into much of this nonsense. They all only want one thing, that's as obvious as day.