Can this work

[Weezy1973]

1 minute ago, ZA Dater said:

All the ones I liked. Far far more than 5

 

I’ve never known you to ask out a woman you like on a date. You mentioned one girl in high school which was a traumatic experience for you, but nothing other than that. 

[ZA Dater]

28 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I’ve never known you to ask out a woman you like on a date. You mentioned one girl in high school which was a traumatic experience for you, but nothing other than that. 

I have tried a few times, with no success.

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I have tried a few times, with no success.

 

But to frame it as 20 years of constant rejection is not accurate. It would improve your mindset if you said something like “I’ve asked out 3 women that I was attracted to on dates and none of them said yes.” How you frame your experiences matters. Framing it as if it’s a huge, horrible, thing over and over will cement in your mind that you’ve had just a torrent of bad experiences when in reality you haven’t. In your own words, it’s just been “a few”. 

[ZA Dater]

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

But to frame it as 20 years of constant rejection is not accurate. It would improve your mindset if you said something like “I’ve asked out 3 women that I was attracted to on dates and none of them said yes.” How you frame your experiences matters. Framing it as if it’s a huge, horrible, thing over and over will cement in your mind that you’ve had just a torrent of bad experiences when in reality you haven’t. In your own words, it’s just been “a few”. 

There has also been no success either...

[ZA Dater]

Ok so the very first chat she and I had was 4 hours long and one of the things she asked me, which I didn't answer at the time "who would would date, a single mom".

I am thinking of if I see her again turning this around and saying "well remember you asked me that, anyone who gets to date you is very lucky indeed, I'd date you". For me that would be quite bold.

[Trail Blazer]

58 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok so the very first chat she and I had was 4 hours long and one of the things she asked me, which I didn't answer at the time "who would would date, a single mom".

I am thinking of if I see her again turning this around and saying "well remember you asked me that, anyone who gets to date you is very lucky indeed, I'd date you". For me that would be quite bold.

The moment has passed.  If you were going to say anything like that, it should have been said in the moment.

I get that it would be a big step for you to say it, but it still has to be noted that putting a woman on a pedestal is a rookie error.

It's certainly not untrue that most guy would be lucky to date an IG model.  However, the most ideal relationship is when both parties feel they're lucky to be with each other.

 

[Yosemite]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I'll send you a private msg because this is very off base. 

I haven't gotten a PM. BTW, I'm sorry if my post came across too harsh.

Quote

We are helping her with a legal financial matter.

You could've just said that in the first place...calling it an extremely complicated arrangement sounds odd.

Are you giving her this financial advice for free?

I just think that you're setting yourself up for a huge let down. You're building this up in your mind as something that it's not. She's not staying with you because she wants to, she doesn't have any other choice. She's not talking to you because she wants to, she has to act interested in what you say and laugh at your jokes so that you'll keep spending money on her. She's using flattery to butter you up so that you'll keep advising her financially and so that you'll give her great advice or get her a primo deal.

You're being used, but you don't want to believe it because you've never gotten attention like this before. If you start to believe that it's real and that she's being genuine, you'll be devastated if she drops you once she gets back on her feet. Try to keep a level head and understand that right now she has extremely strong motivations to make you believe that she enjoys your company.

I'm sorry to say it, but you and your friend are coming across as kinda creepy. This a woman who just lost her husband, has a very young baby, needs a place to stay, turned to you for some kind of financial/legal help, and apparently doesn't have any family to help her right now when she really needs it...and you and your friend are trying to take advantage of that to try to get with her. It's just not what you should be doing.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Yosemite said:

I haven't gotten a PM. BTW, I'm sorry if my post came across too harsh.

You could've just said that in the first place...calling it an extremely complicated arrangement sounds odd.

Are you giving her this financial advice for free?

I just think that you're setting yourself up for a huge let down. You're building this up in your mind as something that it's not. She's not staying with you because she wants to, she doesn't have any other choice. She's not talking to you because she wants to, she has to act interested in what you say and laugh at your jokes so that you'll keep spending money on her. She's using flattery to butter you up so that you'll keep advising her financially and so that you'll give her great advice or get her a primo deal.

You're being used, but you don't want to believe it because you've never gotten attention like this before. If you start to believe that it's real and that she's being genuine, you'll be devastated if she drops you once she gets back on her feet. Try to keep a level head and understand that right now she has extremely strong motivations to make you believe that she enjoys your company.

I'm sorry to say it, but you and your friend are coming across as kinda creepy. This a woman who just lost her husband, has a very young baby, needs a place to stay, turned to you for some kind of financial/legal help, and apparently doesn't have any family to help her right now when she really needs it...and you and your friend are trying to take advantage of that to try to get with her. It's just not what you should be doing.

 

I'll pm you because again this is way off base.

[trident_2020]

3 hours ago, Yosemite said:

You're being used, but you don't want to believe it because you've never gotten attention like this before.

Spot on.

[Weezy1973]

10 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

There has also been no success either...

You haven’t put yourself in a position to succeed. You’ve barely asked out any women out in 20 years. You’ve been single all those years - your attempts should be way higher. This woman “fell in your lap” so to speak. If you refuse to actively try anything, and just hope to win the lottery, that’s the best formula to poverty. The people who get rich work hard, and invest early. They’re actively doing things to succeed. You’re not.

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You haven’t put yourself in a position to succeed. You’ve barely asked out any women out in 20 years. You’ve been single all those years - your attempts should be way higher. This woman “fell in your lap” so to speak. If you refuse to actively try anything, and just hope to win the lottery, that’s the best formula to poverty. The people who get rich work hard, and invest early. They’re actively doing things to succeed. You’re not.

Endless OLD dates woy suggest otherwise. Not going to ask people out I have nothing in common with and who I can see would prefer a more conventional guy.

[jspice]

11 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Endless OLD dates woy suggest otherwise. Not going to ask people out I have nothing in common with and who I can see would prefer a more conventional guy.

So don’t. For gods sake. 
Nobody told you to do that. Nobody in 700 responses in this thread alone told you to ask out women you don’t like. 
 

Don’t go to therapy. Don’t ask anyone average out, even though you are absolutely average. 
Aim for women out of your league but please spare us this endless circular argument.  
 

When is the last time you contributed something original in your posts? When’s the last time you didn’t completely twist everyone’s words with your narrow viewpoint? 
Its just beyond me at this point. You’re taking everyone here for a fool. 

[Weezy1973]

34 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Endless OLD dates woy suggest otherwise.

You haven’t gone on endless OLD dates either. Again you’re exaggerating. Why? I guarantee in your 20 years of being single, you’ve been on a fraction of the OLD dates I went on in approximately 10 years of being single. It’s a numbers game which means the more numbers you get (the more people you go on a date with), the better the chance of finding a match. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

You haven’t gone on endless OLD dates either. Again you’re exaggerating. Why? I guarantee in your 20 years of being single, you’ve been on a fraction of the OLD dates I went on in approximately 10 years of being single. It’s a numbers game which means the more numbers you get (the more people you go on a date with), the better the chance of finding a match. 

So my question and honestly how do you find so many attractive people on OLD who match with you because dozens of profiles later I just get exactly the same people. Unless you mean just go on a date with anyone who will go.

[Weezy1973]

3 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

So my question and honestly how do you find so many attractive people on OLD who match with you because dozens of profiles later I just get exactly the same people. Unless you mean just go on a date with anyone who will go.

I was on multiple sites, had lots of recent pictures, rotated the pics regularly, and updated my write ups. I took the time to honestly answer any “matching” type questions on sites that had them (ex. OKCupid or eHarmony). 
 

I also had a very firm idea of what I was looking for in a relationship. So I was a guy that knew what I wanted, which is extremely helpful in navigating OLD. 
 

I would meet any woman that didn’t have any of my dealbreakers. She didn’t have to be a “wow” because I knew I couldn’t know that until after meeting. My dealbreakers were:

1. Not overweight

2. No smokers

3. No hard drug users

 

I had some other preferences like age range and distance, but those weren’t set in stone. 
 

I kept messaging back and forth short and would ask to meet for a short date (coffee or a drink) as soon as possible. The vast majority of dates were “one and dones”. Nothing beyond a first date. Which I expected. If there was some chemistry on a date I would ask her out again within 24 - 48 hours, but I wouldn’t stop dating others. Multidating in the early stages was essential for me because, again it’s a numbers game. Most of the time even a second or third date with someone won’t necessarily turn into more. If you just stop dating others, you’re wasting time. 
 

So that was the basics of my method. Again, the vast majority of dates went nowhere, and even if I was really attracted to someone and she didn’t return the interest, I didn’t dwell on it, and I usually had another date lined up with someone else anyways. 

[ZA Dater]

22 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

I was on multiple sites, had lots of recent pictures, rotated the pics regularly, and updated my write ups. I took the time to honestly answer any “matching” type questions on sites that had them (ex. OKCupid or eHarmony). 
 

I also had a very firm idea of what I was looking for in a relationship. So I was a guy that knew what I wanted, which is extremely helpful in navigating OLD. 
 

I would meet any woman that didn’t have any of my dealbreakers. She didn’t have to be a “wow” because I knew I couldn’t know that until after meeting. My dealbreakers were:

1. Not overweight

2. No smokers

3. No hard drug users

 

I had some other preferences like age range and distance, but those weren’t set in stone. 
 

I kept messaging back and forth short and would ask to meet for a short date (coffee or a drink) as soon as possible. The vast majority of dates were “one and dones”. Nothing beyond a first date. Which I expected. If there was some chemistry on a date I would ask her out again within 24 - 48 hours, but I wouldn’t stop dating others. Multidating in the early stages was essential for me because, again it’s a numbers game. Most of the time even a second or third date with someone won’t necessarily turn into more. If you just stop dating others, you’re wasting time. 
 

So that was the basics of my method. Again, the vast majority of dates went nowhere, and even if I was really attracted to someone and she didn’t return the interest, I didn’t dwell on it, and I usually had another date lined up with someone else anyways. 

 Very fortunate to be able to have that many people to rotate and date like that. I did a variation of that for years but the difference was people I mostly found unattractive. I went hoping I would find them attractive barring perhaps 5% who were attractive.

Can't fault that method really. I am going to try as you suggested a more direct approach with her. I never really talk feelings so maybe I need to try a watered down version of that. When I think about it I seldom engage in that way because well I just never see the guys at the club or the have any success with this, it's always about fun over all else it seems.

Maybe I need to take a bigger leap of faith.

[Weezy1973]

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 Very fortunate to be able to have that many people to rotate and date like that.

It wasn’t luck. I put in a lot of effort.

 

24 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 I did a variation of that for years but the difference was people I mostly found unattractive.

I messaged and, if the opportunity arose, asked 

anyone out whose profile pics etc I felt anywhere from neutral to extremely attracted to. And yes most of these in person there was no attraction. That’s why it’s a numbers game. 

 

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I went hoping I would find them attractive barring perhaps 5% who were attractive.

That sounds close to my experience as well. Which was perfectly fine. That means for every 100 dates you go only, 5 will be attractive to you. And of those five maybe 1 will also be attracted to you. That’s why you need to go on a lot of dates. I’m betting you haven’t had 100 first OLD dates in your 20 years. 

 

32 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I am going to try as you suggested a more direct approach with her.

Is she currently living with you, and if so how long will she be living there? Although, yes I think direct is good, if you’re living together it could get really uncomfortable for her. In fact if she’s ultimately planning on moving back or out, you might be better off waiting until she isn’t reliant on you for shelter. And then be as direct as you can be. Something like “I really enjoyed spending time together when you were here.And id like to continue seeing you now that we don’t live together. I’d like to take you out on a date to <whatever place makes sense>.”

[Foxhall]

what kind of body language do you get off her?

such as would she hold a gaze and stare and smile with you, would she play with and flick her hair while you are talking,

touch your arm or anything when you are at the same table

give you any encouragement that way,

Id probably chance my arm along the lines of- invite her out for a walk and see how she reacts if you try and hold her hand as you walk together.

if she refuses to take it- well you know once and for all shes not interested- but if she takes it- ok now there is something here,

guys like you and me- well we are not alphamales, so we need to operate in subtle ways with women-trying to sneak in the back door so to speak.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

51 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

what kind of body language do you get off her?

such as would she hold a gaze and stare and smile with you, would she play with and flick her hair while you are talking,

Yes that happens quite a bit, lot of hair playing does take place. She is very good at giving absolute attention when I talk to her, is very attentive.

[chillii]

Yeah well it's funny , didn't know if it was just me or not earlier but now reading yours and weezy's l was thinking the same back there.

l wondered right through if there'd been any touching or a lot of touching or if za had actually tried himself. l also thought just supposing there was any interest that piece he wrote really , it could've pretty well been construed as in him sorta confirming and appreciating the friendship rather than something more , and so just supposing , then she would reply in that friendship sense that she did use.

Not sayin she is interested but l really didn't seen any def' thing from za and so def' knock back from her unless l missed it as yet. A casual arm around her at some point should get something za, do you guys hug hello n bye's ? , just wondering.  The arm thing though once yrs ago l was in a situation where l just could not for the life of me read her , so l gently put my arm around her just very lightly , she practically ran away haha , so that really sorted that out right there.

ps , yet she was showing me her clothes earlier that day even her panty draw, so why a chick would open her panty draw to me when she wasn't interested was just effg beyond me,

Edited April 4, 2021 by chillii

[ZA Dater]

13 minutes ago, chillii said:

Yeah well it's funny , didn't know if it was just me or not earlier but now reading yours and weezy's l was thinking the same back there.

l wondered right through if there'd been any touching or a lot of touching or if za had actually tried himself. l also thought just supposing there was any interest that piece he wrote really , it could've pretty well been construed as in him sorta confirming and appreciating the friendship rather than something more , and so just supposing , then she would reply in that friendship sense that she did use.

Not sayin she is interested but l really didn't seen any def' thing from za and so def' knock back from her unless l missed it as yet. A casual arm around her at some point should get something za, do you guys hug hello n bye's ? , just wondering.  The arm thing though once yrs ago l was in a situation where l just could not for the life of me read her , so l gently put my arm around her just very lightly , she practically ran away haha , so that really sorted that out right there.

ps , yet she was showing me her clothes earlier that day even her panty draw, so why a chick would open her panty draw to me when she wasn't interested was just effg beyond me,

Yes we do hug, one of the things I really like about her is she is such a warm person personality wise. You are right that piece was written with that sort of in mind but the hint was not very subtle that I do enjoy spending time with her. I also mentioned how nice it was to get off the lonely road I walk in life and to be able to walk with someone for a change. The below is an extract, the reference to change is how her life changed so dramatically. We had chatted about this at length.

"Ultimately we all aspire to certain things and along with that to be the best version of ourselves. Life is never easy, it sometimes appears so but as people we have two sources of strength, from ourselves and from those around us. Life can change suddenly, we never know why these changes happen, we try to rationalise them, we ask the simple question “why” but sometimes the answers we seek are not quite as straight forward as we would like them to be. We need to find comfort in the fact not every question has an answer."

 

[chillii]

Yeah unfortunately a lot of us hug friends but at least it's touch, and very nice too even if just as a friend.

l really wouldn't mention lonely roads and what have you to women but yeah from what l read there was really nothing def' in that piece so l wouldn't call it a no from that. Wondering to if anyone you know , actually knows her , or even talks to her . Bc if so your names would've come up and they've probably heard from her where she's at , so you could ask them. Couldn't tell earlier if they actually knew her or whether no interest were just assumptions but asking them is at least slightly easier than making a def' move.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, chillii said:

Yeah unfortunately a lot of us hug friends but at least it's touch, and very nice too even if just as a friend.

l really wouldn't mention lonely roads and what have you to women but yeah from what l read there was really nothing def' in that piece so l wouldn't call it a no from that. Wondering to if anyone you know , actually knows her , or even talks to her . Bc if so your names would've come up and they've probably heard from her where she's at , so you could ask them. Couldn't tell earlier if they actually knew her or whether no interest were just assumptions but asking them is at least slightly easier than making a def' move.

Well apparently she says only good things about me so I guess that's positive. Person who tells me that is completely independent, I don't know him that well at all.

Let's see what is possible this week, going to try be as chilled as possible, running through a few different schools of thought. I can try get that dinner, she asked me a while ago who would date her and I smiled and didn't really answer the question, I could bring that up.

Somehow I need to try not let mr awkward into.the room.... there are a few guys chasing her, that much I know but I also think everyone is largely equal at the end of the day barring the least experienced idiot being me haha.

I have a considerable disadvantage.

 

[Weezy1973]

29 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

 

I have a considerable disadvantage.

 

If for no other reason than those other men are making their interest known, and asking her out on dates. They’re not wasting time going through different “schools of thought”. 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

If for no other reason than those other men are making their interest known, and asking her out on dates. They’re not wasting time going through different “schools of thought”. 

Those men have charm remember...I have very little to work with so my odds are much worse, arguably I have had dates with her I guess. They are ahead on attraction I think...but again I don't know what she actually wants.