Can this work

[Weezy1973]

20 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Those men have charm remember...I have very little to work with so my odds are much worse, arguably I have had dates with her I guess. They are ahead on attraction I think...but again I don't know what she actually wants.

You’re not actually in competition with those men. She’s gotten to know you a bit by now so either she’s somewhat attracted or not at this point. 
 

What exactly are you waiting for to let her know you’re interested? There’s not going to be a scroll delivered by the gods giving you this knowledge...

[ZA Dater]

Not seeing her before she goes back home so I guess it's done.

[Trail Blazer]

On 4/5/2021 at 5:02 AM, ZA Dater said:

Those men have charm remember...I have very little to work with so my odds are much worse, arguably I have had dates with her I guess. They are ahead on attraction I think...but again I don't know what she actually wants.

Look man, if you can't find a way to make yourself appealing to women then you're never going to appeal to women.  It's that simple.

Women are attracted to confidence.  If you're not confident then you're not going to inspire confidence in her that you're the right man.

Sure, OLD is different.  Looks matter most, at least initially.  You can't change that, but in real-life situations, there's more scope to appear attractive.

Nobody here can make you become more appealing to women.  We can only advise you on how to best go about embarking on that journey.

You can either accept yourself the way you are looks wise (which really I don't imagine is that bad) and improve all of the areas you can control. 

Or, you can do nothing and complain that life isn't fair. 

What is it going to be?

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Look man, if you can't find a way to make yourself appealing to women then you're never going to appeal to women.  It's that simple.

Women are attracted to confidence.  If you're not confident then you're not going to inspire confidence in her that you're the right man.

Sure, OLD is different.  Looks matter most, at least initially.  You can't change that, but in real-life situations, there's more scope to appear attractive.

Nobody here can make you become more appealing to women.  We can only advise you on how to best go about embarking on that journey.

You can either accept yourself the way you are looks wise (which really I don't imagine is that bad) and improve all of the areas you can control. 

Or, you can do nothing and complain that life isn't fair. 

What is it going to be?

Based on what I get on OLD I look terrible lol. In terms of the journey, yeah it's me looking at that sunset on my own. As it's always been, irrespective what I bring to the table there is always someone with more so it's unlikely I am going to find that mutual attraction because those I like have tons of options, all of which are better than me at the things people actually find attractive.

Just have to try live with it.

 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

Look man, if you can't find a way to make yourself appealing to women then you're never going to appeal to women.  It's that simple.

Women are attracted to confidence.  If you're not confident then you're not going to inspire confidence in her that you're the right man.

Sure, OLD is different.  Looks matter most, at least initially.  You can't change that, but in real-life situations, there's more scope to appear attractive.

Nobody here can make you become more appealing to women.  We can only advise you on how to best go about embarking on that journey.

You can either accept yourself the way you are looks wise (which really I don't imagine is that bad) and improve all of the areas you can control. 

Or, you can do nothing and complain that life isn't fair. 

What is it going to be?

I may as well just try and adapt as best I can to what is and the limitations of that. If that means walking around unhappy and bitter then so be it. Maybe real life is easier but then again there is always someone with more of the attractive things than me so unless the person has absolutely no options at all there are always better options than me, better looking, more money, more fun, more flirty, frankly the list is endless. Some people simply do not have valued qualities and while I look at myself and am quite happy about who I am I also need to realize that everything I am happy with has no value to others.

For me the journey will seemingly always be a very lonely one where I just need to reconcile that fact and find ways of living with it and many regrets. My advice to others would be make sure you conform in your teens, do what everyone else does because that is when you learn, miss those lessons and its impossible to catch them up because as one women told me rather bluntly "I don't have time to teach" and another told me "you need to find people as inexperienced as you". 

 

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

there is always someone with more of the attractive things than me so unless the person has absolutely no options at all there are always better options than me, better looking, more money, more fun, more flirty, frankly the list is endless.

The is is literally true for everybody. There’s always someone with more. Yet most adults are married or in relationships. And before you ask, yes most are attracted to their partner.

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Some people simply do not have valued qualities and while I look at myself and am quite happy about who I am I also need to realize that everything I am happy with has no value to others.

Some people do not have many valued qualities, but you don’t seem to be one of them. Your problem is that you’re only attracted to women who don’t really value those qualities, or they value superficial qualities more. 

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My advice to others would be make sure you conform in your teens, do what everyone else does because that is when you learn, miss those lessons and its impossible to catch them up because as one women told me rather bluntly "I don't have time to teach" and another told me "you need to find people as inexperienced as you". 

My advice to people is it’s never too late to learn. Our brains are continually being rewired. Yes it’s hard, but for most of us, it’s worth it.

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

The is is literally true for everybody. There’s always someone with more. Yet most adults are married or in relationships. And before you ask, yes most are attracted to their partner.

 

Some people do not have many valued qualities, but you don’t seem to be one of them. Your problem is that you’re only attracted to women who don’t really value those qualities, or they value superficial qualities more. 

 

My advice to people is it’s never too late to learn. Our brains are continually being rewired. Yes it’s hard, but for most of us, it’s worth it.

Might be true but people for the most part don't seen to like inexperience.

To me superficial will always be valued more, again I'll just have to live with it.

[ZA Dater]

Lessons I can take from this

1: It can be better than even I could imagine

2: Its good to sort of win and have new experiences

3: There is certain feeling of completeness to life when I can share experiences with people

4: It was good to open up and good to be engaged properly by someone who enjoyed spending time with me

5: Dating will always be impossible for me because I simply do not match up to what people actually want, there is a disconnect between what I have and what people actually want.

6: For once it felt good not to be lonely and for once it was nice to be the odd one out who had no partner.

7: Kids really are delightful

8: I have probably had the best experience I am likely to have. 

9: Its impossible to go from friends to anything more and arguably I am not even good enough to be a friend either.

10: I lack any sort of attraction irrespective of any other good qualities I might have.

Overall it was good for once to see how good this could be, experience the good things and live that idea I have had for many years, albeit fleetingly. Everyone else has given me advice but my piece of advice is this, if you have the qualities which people really find attractive I have no doubt dating can enrich you life immensely, spending time with someone you really like is everything its made out to be. Giving yourself emotionally, allowing someone into your world is a very nice experience, that lonely void is gone and there is someone there to share ideas and thoughts with.

I have tried to find this for 20 odd years and yes I am glad I found it even for just a moment, this experience was on balance good enough to re balance my scales between negative and positive and considering all I get from dating is negative goes to show how pleasant this experience was, granted I was basically living with someone so the dynamics were rather different to a coffee date or a dinner date and the other thing I learnt is I am actually better in that scenario.

Dream and keep doing so because sometimes you might even if for a while get exactly what you imagined. For me its time to just move on to something else, most of the dating boxes have been ticked now, I will always regret I could not experience more of this, that kids and family will forever be out of reach, that connectedness will forever be out of reach that I wont ever be appreciated for what I am good at. Most of all with this I felt a degree of warmth I had never experienced before and I can tell you when a baby looks at you, smiles, laughs, pulls your hair you really see and feel what life should be about. I do not regret anything barring the fact I cant experience more of this.

[basil67]

ZA, I apologise in advance if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall you being opposed to dating single mothers.  Given how well you interacted with this woman's baby and the respect you hold for her as a single mother, would you reconsider your stance for the right woman with the right family dynamic?   

Edited April 8, 2021 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

42 minutes ago, basil67 said:

ZA, I apologise in advance if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall you being opposed to dating single mothers.  Given how well you interacted with this woman's baby and the respect you hold for her as a single mother, would you reconsider your stance for the right woman with the right family dynamic?   

The problem I have with single mothers, this one being the exception because she is windowed and is self supporting.

1: Tons of baggage and there is always some other guy to deal with this, this is very unappealing to me.

2: Most of them are looking for financial support and this is never going to work for me at all

3: Many of them simply have not looked after themselves.

4: They are looking for substitute fathers when there is in fact a father in the picture but mostly not a very good one for ABC reasons.

SO sure there is a very, very narrow dynamic where this would appeal to me:

1: She can support herself and her child

2: The father is completely out of the picture

3: The child is not older than 2 years old

4: She is in good shape

5: She has a good support system of other family.

I admire this lady particularly because what she has gone through is really terrible but I never heard her complain once, she smiles all the time, she makes her baby her world and I admire that greatly, there is a very genuine love and affection and that had a very profound impact on me. The lessons and experiences I had here with this "family" dynamic were extremely profound and I admit I really enjoyed it. "You are the most considerate, kind and thoughtful guy the way you interact with us, for someone who does not have kids you really understand more than many who do" I thought that was a particularly nice compliment.

 

[basil67]

Hmmmm.....a yes or no would have sufficed

So does all of the above mean that you'd be open to dating a single mother if the family dynamic was right?

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Hmmmm.....a yes or no would have sufficed

So does all of the above mean that you'd be open to dating a single mother if the family dynamic was right?

Yes.

[basil67]

That's good to hear.  Changing your OLD filters to include them should hopefully give you more viable options.  

[ZA Dater]

9 hours ago, basil67 said:

That's good to hear.  Changing your OLD filters to include them should hopefully give you more viable options.  

I have never excluded them. 

[ZA Dater]

Well seems she is sort of dating this other guy now. Unsurprising I suppose, what the attraction is I do not know but I do know that her close friends have portrayed this guy as a real catch so I suppose that helps as does the extreme read desperate lengths he has gone to, financial muscle and everything else this entails.

How do I feel? Basically defeated and sad but also surprisingly calm, life goes on. I do not know what the answer for me is and I have spent a lot of time thinking about this the past week and still I do not know what the answer is. Have spent a lot of time reading here too, how to try be better, how to understand more, how to be more appealing.

Undoubtedly the time I spent with her is the best time I have ever spent with a lady, for once I could be open, open myself up, speak about things I do not normally speak about, show my caring soft side be the person I want to be and for a time at least not feel totally isolated.

I went back to Tinder and Bumble and deleted both after 5 hours because it was once again the very unattractive people I have spent years being matched to. Call me stupid but I'd rather believe someone I find attractive would find me attractive than bother with these soul destroying apps. 

I know my value even if the dating world does not agree.

 

[Moves Like Jagger]

I'm surprised this thread is this long. It's obvious that she was not interested based on the context of how you met her. There's a big difference between a woman being friendly with you because she needs advice and housing versus being friendly because you're that social guy that organizes some amazing events. 

The bigger problem is that you seem afraid of failure. You mentioned that you had a cold upbringing. ZA Dater you got to find out what's the reason why you seem afraid of going through a bunch of no's before getting a yes. I think you have some unresolved trauma. If you don't find the source, you will continue to fail to meet your dating goals. I mentioned this in another post, but above-average looking women get treated a lot of differently than above-average looking men. I see women getting approached all the time. While I see guys having to play the numbers game and enduring rejection after rejection, some of the rejections are really rude. 

 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Moves Like Jagger said:

I'm surprised this thread is this long. It's obvious that she was not interested based on the context of how you met her. There's a big difference between a woman being friendly with you because she needs advice and housing versus being friendly because you're that social guy that organizes some amazing events. 

The bigger problem is that you seem afraid of failure. You mentioned that you had a cold upbringing. ZA Dater you got to find out what's the reason why you seem afraid of going through a bunch of no's before getting a yes. I think you have some unresolved trauma. If you don't find the source, you will continue to fail to meet your dating goals. I mentioned this in another post, but above-average looking women get treated a lot of differently than above-average looking men. I see women getting approached all the time. While I see guys having to play the numbers game and enduring rejection after rejection, some of the rejections are really rude. 

 

All I have ever had is no.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

All I have ever had is no.

Well yes.   You openly acknowledge that you're aiming for the elite, so when there's so much competition, of course you (and 95% of other men) are going to get many knockbacks.  

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

Well yes.   You openly acknowledge that you're aiming for the elite, so when there's so much competition, of course you (and 95% of other men) are going to get many knockbacks.  

Just going to step aside now because I know I can't get what I like so the sensible alternative is to have nothing. There is competition at every so called level.

So long as I can feel reasonably good about myself I'll just find some way of dealing with the fact that I am going to miss out on very large chunks of amazing experiences.

I get to choose how I deal with that, which is ironic because I never actually get any dating choice.

[elaine567]

I feel the hurdle you now have to jump and are now very aware of, is sex.
In order to progress with this girl, you would have had to show some sexual interest.                     
You baulked at that, so you chose the friend route, in the hope SHE would initiate touching and kissing, leading eventually to sex, or she would accept some sort of an exclusive platonic gf/bf relationship with you. 
She instead chose a guy who no doubt made it very clear he wanted to sleep with her and that to most women (if the timing is correct) is welcome, validating and a huge ego boost. 

[BaileyB]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

 You openly acknowledge that you're aiming for the elite, so when there's so much competition, of course you (and 95% of other men) are going to get many knockbacks.  

I agree with this. I’m sorry, but it’s hard to have sympathy when you set your sights so high that what you want is virtually unattainable. You have to accept that you will experience a lot of failure.

[ZA Dater]

47 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I agree with this. I’m sorry, but it’s hard to have sympathy when you set your sights so high that what you want is virtually unattainable. You have to accept that you will experience a lot of failure.

Ok I am glad we have ascertained that slim, self supporting , kind, intelligent, warn personality are all unattainable attributes.

Makes me wonder what everyone else looks for.

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

I feel the hurdle you now have to jump and are now very aware of, is sex.
In order to progress with this girl, you would have had to show some sexual interest.                     
You baulked at that, so you chose the friend route, in the hope SHE would initiate touching and kissing, leading eventually to sex, or she would accept some sort of an exclusive platonic gf/bf relationship with you. 
She instead chose a guy who no doubt made it very clear he wanted to sleep with her and that to most women (if the timing is correct) is welcome, validating and a huge ego boost. 

I'll never get that right but yeah you might be right but I had hoped knowing the history she would sort of realise.

Thinking back there was so much I didn't really pick up properly but I can't cry over spilt milk. I can go and not touch milk again.

I am never going to initiate those things simply because I don't know how. And at 37 not knowing how is totally frowned upon. 

She just picked the guy who has more and who is more attractive, can't really fault her for that, even if I think he is too old. But what do I know really, I look at a mess of a lonely empty life and maybe it's me with my moral line who is wrong, maybe I'd have been better off choosing the player life. Who knows, certainly can't change that now.

I do know my ultimate want of waking next to someone I enjoy spending my days with will never happen so all I want to do now is find some sort of closure and peace. 

Honestly I don't meed or want sympathy because nobody around me actually provides any, the loneliness and ultimate disappointment I feel live in my my and on this forum. The absolute best I get "happens to me all the time" from a guy who has dates endless ladies he really likes.

[BaileyB]

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Ok I am glad we have ascertained that slim, self supporting , kind, intelligent, warn personality are all unattainable attributes.

Makes me wonder what everyone else looks for.

Dude, that’s not what you are looking for in a woman. At least, it’s not all you are looking for in a woman. 

That’s what I’ve suggested you look for all along, but you are looking for an “elite” kind of person, a woman of the world, super model type gorgeous, followed by thousands on Instagram, ten years younger than yourself in some cases, who gives you and every other man she meets the “wow factor.” Those are your words... 

You are preoccupied with weight, physical appearance, and you have an elitist attitude when it comes to dating. Don’t give us this - not when there are pages and pages in multiple discussions over years that say otherwise...

Edited April 11, 2021 by BaileyB

[ZA Dater]

3 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Dude, that’s not what you are looking for in a woman. 

That’s what I’ve suggested you look for all along, but you are looking for an “elite” kind of person, a woman of the world, super model type gorgeous, followed by thousands on Instagram, ten years younger than yourself in some cases, who gives you and every other man she meets the “wow factor.” Those are your words... 

You are preoccupied with weight, physical appearance, and you have an elitist attitude when it comes to dating. Don’t give us this kind of deflection - not when there are pages and pages in multiple discussions over years that say otherwise...

So what of it? I didn't ask for sympathy. You right I don't find overweight people attractive, others might. I find wow attractive and important, others might not. I find good language attractive, others might not. I find someone who cares about something attractive, others might not.

Elitist attitude. Good grief. Because I am specific what I do not like I am elitist if so then I wear the cap with pride.

No the simple fact of the matter is we all can like whatever we like, doesn't mean we will ever find it. Some get a better hand of cards to play and have the requisite qualities, others just chase but never win. I think all of is know someone in either camp.

I am just resigned to defeat. Done the best I could but I cannot control matters I have no control over so it's pointless getting upset about them.