Can this work

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, dramafreezone said:

That is not surprising that you would say that you get zero value from therapists.  You consistently reject any insights provided to you here as well.  Right now you seem incapable of thinking that your belief system is just deeply flawed, despite an insurmountable amount of evidence that we can all see from your personal account of your life. 

I believe this may stem from some degree of intellectual vanity; essentially the one thing about yourself that you apparently do hold in high regard is your intellect, and because of this, you think (correctly in many cases) that your ability to intepret things is superior to most others.  This can be taken too far though when you disregard the opinions of those that have expertise in areas in which you do not.

I say this as someone that probably has some intellctual vanity as well.  I can see it in others.  Being intelligent is a gift, but a curse when you feel you have nothing to learn from others.  We all have blind spots, and attracting women is a blind spot for you.  You're not incapable of doing it, but you need help and you need to be receptive to that help.

Perhaps partly true. Its a blind spot because whatever I try leads to the same results, the degree of change to the change in results just never adds up. What I can tell you is certain people have made me a better person, certain advice has made a better person at certain things. The problem is, yes we learn from many people and I can tell you interacting with people on the poverty line does teach many things but interacting with the infamous 1% also teaches other things. Its not like I have not been exposed to people, I have met enough to know what I like and what I do not, what could potentially work with me and what absolutely cannot. I once met a lady who loved trance parties, as pretty as she was and seemingly interested I didnt bother because we were simply incompatible, she was indeed extremely pretty.

Its not like I do not look at fundamentals. The other truth is I have no game at all, no flirting ability at all, my entire thinking is for want of better word "work like" which does not make me the most fun person to be around but it does make me the most dependable reliable person.

You also need to understand the sort of "help" I receive, dragging me off to a club to meet 5 ladies in an environment I do not enjoy is never going to work well. Putting people on the spot and selling me as some sort of pity project is not very good help either. I'll be quite honest and say I think for a lot of guys the foundation is between 16-22 as to how to date, they learn from friends, its a carefree time, you can look like a fool because its "normal" to try figure out relationships, I never had that because none of my friends at the time were interested in dating, like me they were interested in career planning, life planning and learning. The appeal of someone 35+ with no dating experience is very limited, I can try pretend I have this but it never really works at all.

The help I really need is for someone I like to actually give me a chance instead of throwing me into the trash can. That's never going to happen when there are better alternatives, there is no reason to pick a "project". Make no mistake I have been sold as a pity project on more than one occasion and its a terrible feeling. 

 

[ZA Dater]

42 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

Your bitterness is permeating every one of your posts and it's gotten worse over the years.

If you're like this in person you don't stand a chance at a second date.

 

Walk a mile or two in my shoes and you will be exactly the same. Oh and I do not need to worry about the second date because I never get the first one anyway!

[ZA Dater]

46 minutes ago, trident_2020 said:

Your bitterness is permeating every one of your posts and it's gotten worse over the years.

If you're like this in person you don't stand a chance at a second date.

 

Perhaps. 

Edited January 26, 2021 by ZA Dater

[trident_2020]

Just now, ZA Dater said:

Walk a mile or two in my shoes and you will be exactly the same. Oh and I do not need to worry about the second date because I never get the first one anyway!

No, I'd change shoes and walk in a different direction.

 

[Weezy1973]

22 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You were sort of correct in your earlier post, this one is way off base, though who is my equivalent exactly? Why bother dating someone I do not find attractive, a total complete waste of time.

Let’s make it extreme to clarify the point. If there’s an obese woman who is only attracted to super athletic, fit men and complains she’s never experienced mutual attraction, what would the advice be? Either become fit and athletic like the men you’re attracted to, or try dating men that are also obese to see if attraction grows from other aspects of their personality. Like attracts like.

 

You’re a shy, introverted, average looking guy. Yet you’re attracted to outgoing, confident, above average to extremely good looking women. You lament that none of the women pay attention to you when you walk in a bar / club, but you hate bars and clubs! Of course they’re going to gravitate towards the fun, outgoing guys who enjoy that environment. 
 

You also refuse to change who you are or to lie. And when given the advice to act confident even if you don’t feel confident (fake it until you make it), you refuse to do that too. Even the the solution to every struggle that anybody is having is generally to do things you don’t feel like doing. Have social anxiety; get out an socialize anyways. Feeling unmotivated due to depression; get up and exercise anyways. Can’t lose weight because you don’t feel like cooking; do it anyways. Don’t feel motivated to exercise; do it anyways. 
 

That’s the crux of personal growth, and you’re unwilling to do it. At all. And so you won’t succeed unless you bite the bullet and start doing things you don’t feel like doing. 

[dramafreezone]

 

27 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Perhaps partly true. Its a blind spot because whatever I try leads to the same results, the degree of change to the change in results just never adds up. What I can tell you is certain people have made me a better person, certain advice has made a better person at certain things. The problem is, yes we learn from many people and I can tell you interacting with people on the poverty line does teach many things but interacting with the infamous 1% also teaches other things. Its not like I have not been exposed to people, I have met enough to know what I like and what I do not, what could potentially work with me and what absolutely cannot. I once met a lady who loved trance parties, as pretty as she was and seemingly interested I didnt bother because we were simply incompatible, she was indeed extremely pretty.

Its not like I do not look at fundamentals. The other truth is I have no game at all, no flirting ability at all, my entire thinking is for want of better word "work like" which does not make me the most fun person to be around but it does make me the most dependable reliable person.

You also need to understand the sort of "help" I receive, dragging me off to a club to meet 5 ladies in an environment I do not enjoy is never going to work well. Putting people on the spot and selling me as some sort of pity project is not very good help either. I'll be quite honest and say I think for a lot of guys the foundation is between 16-22 as to how to date, they learn from friends, its a carefree time, you can look like a fool because its "normal" to try figure out relationships, I never had that because none of my friends at the time were interested in dating, like me they were interested in career planning, life planning and learning. The appeal of someone 35+ with no dating experience is very limited, I can try pretend I have this but it never really works at all.

The help I really need is for someone I like to actually give me a chance instead of throwing me into the trash can. That's never going to happen when there are better alternatives, there is no reason to pick a "project". Make no mistake I have been sold as a pity project on more than one occasion and its a terrible feeling. 

 

What do you think "game" is?  The reality is if a woman likes you, you don't need much "game."  All you have to do is not talk her out of liking you.  What you're likely doing is saying stuff to women that just turns them off.  You're probably doing too much talking and not enough listening.  The brutal honesty is women don't care about anything you have say, or anything I have to say.  Largely, they just want someone to listen to them talk about themselves.  Really that's what we all like, to talk about ourselves.

Going to clubs is a poor strategy to meet women period, even worse if you don't like clubs.  Most women you see out at the club would normally be at home, but they're just going out to either hang out with their girlfriends, or to attract attention.  Very few go there with the intention of meeting guys.  The trick is you go out to do things that you like to do, but it HAS to be outside of the house.  If you never leave the house, then your chances of meeting women is almost zero.  Go do thinks that you enjoy, doens't matter what it is as long as it's outside of the house.  That way, you're in your natural element, and you're not going to judge your evening by whether or not you met a woman, you had a good time regardless because you're out doing things you enjoy.  The side effect is that you're not looking for women, and women feel more comfortable if you're not looking for women.

No woman is going to give you a chance.  Like anything else, you have to earn your chance by putting in the work on yourself.  You think these women are making a choice not to be attracted to you, but that's not the case.  Attraction is not a choice, a woman isn't going to be attracted to you because she decided to give you a chance.  It's the exact opposite.  You just have to change the way that you view the entire dynamic of attaction, because it's just flawed.  Your focus should be on what attracts women, but not what you think attracts women or what you believe should attract women, what actually attraction women.

Edited January 26, 2021 by dramafreezone

[trident_2020]

11 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

You also refuse to change who you are

Adapt or die.

Species go extinct when they can't change in order to deal with existing conditions.

ZA won't be spreading his DNA into the next generation if he doesn't figure it out.

 

[ZA Dater]

25 minutes ago, dramafreezone said:

 

What do you think "game" is?  The reality is if a woman likes you, you don't need much "game."  All you have to do is not talk her out of liking you.  What you're likely doing is saying stuff to women that just turns them off.  You're probably doing too much talking and not enough listening.  The brutal honesty is women don't care about anything you have say, or anything I have to say.  Largely, they just want someone to listen to them talk about themselves.  Really that's what we all like, to talk about ourselves.

Going to clubs is a poor strategy to meet women period, even worse if you don't like clubs.  Most women you see out at the club would normally be at home, but they're just going out to either hang out with their girlfriends, or to attract attention.  Very few go there with the intention of meeting guys.  The trick is you go out to do things that you like to do, but it HAS to be outside of the house.  If you never leave the house, then your chances of meeting women is almost zero.  Go do thinks that you enjoy, doens't matter what it is as long as it's outside of the house.  That way, you're in your natural element, and you're not going to judge your evening by whether or not you met a woman, you had a good time regardless because you're out doing things you enjoy.  The side effect is that you're not looking for women, and women feel more comfortable if you're not looking for women.

No woman is going to give you a chance.  Like anything else, you have to earn your chance by putting in the work on yourself.  You think these women are making a choice not to be attracted to you, but that's not the case.  Attraction is not a choice, a woman isn't going to be attracted to you because she decided to give you a chance.  It's the exact opposite.  You just have to change the way that you view the entire dynamic of attaction, because it's just flawed.  Your focus should be on what attracts women, but not what you think attracts women or what you believe should attract women, what actually attraction women.

What attracts women in my view, which will be deemed wrong but these are the sort of guys I know who have great degree of success

: Good looks

: Social standing

: Conforming

: Fun

:Material wealth 

: Partying

: Spinning absolute BS and pretending to be someone you are not

: High levels of confidence.

: Manipulative

Clearly women like these things to various degrees.

Truthfully I have tried both dating method sit there and let her talk, ask questions, sit there and sell myself and listen to her talk about herself. If I need to sit there and listen to someone take no interest in me then why I am sitting there?

Nothing I enjoy is very people centred at all so I guess that is my fault too.  The bold is exactly my point, people do things because everyone else does without actually asking themselves why they are doing them.

I hate talking about myself socially and almost never do.

 

[ZA Dater]

41 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Let’s make it extreme to clarify the point. If there’s an obese woman who is only attracted to super athletic, fit men and complains she’s never experienced mutual attraction, what would the advice be? Either become fit and athletic like the men you’re attracted to, or try dating men that are also obese to see if attraction grows from other aspects of their personality. Like attracts like.

 

You’re a shy, introverted, average looking guy. Yet you’re attracted to outgoing, confident, above average to extremely good looking women. You lament that none of the women pay attention to you when you walk in a bar / club, but you hate bars and clubs! Of course they’re going to gravitate towards the fun, outgoing guys who enjoy that environment. 
 

You also refuse to change who you are or to lie. And when given the advice to act confident even if you don’t feel confident (fake it until you make it), you refuse to do that too. Even the the solution to every struggle that anybody is having is generally to do things you don’t feel like doing. Have social anxiety; get out an socialize anyways. Feeling unmotivated due to depression; get up and exercise anyways. Can’t lose weight because you don’t feel like cooking; do it anyways. Don’t feel motivated to exercise; do it anyways. 
 

That’s the crux of personal growth, and you’re unwilling to do it. At all. And so you won’t succeed unless you bite the bullet and start doing things you don’t feel like doing. 

Doing things you do not feel like doing is never a solution because you will never do those things well or to the best of your ability. My approach is going to be to just be who I am, the best version of that, I have no expectations at all but I do have a long list of likes and dislikes. I have been reading various dating coach ideas and its for the most part based on pure manipulation and lies. 

At the end of the day I cannot change how the game works I cannot change what people like, so sure I could adopt of simply not adapt and live with the consequences as unpleasant as they are, the reality is I can go 360 degrees and still have so many negative points my success rate would not be any better. Irrespective of that I wont stop trying to do things on my own terms. 

The wonderful thing is we get to choose for the most part and my choice has always been to not conform, there is absolutely no incentive for me to conform.

[dramafreezone]

16 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What attracts women in my view, which will be deemed wrong but these are the sort of guys I know who have great degree of success

: Good looks

: Social standing

: Conforming

: Fun

:Material wealth 

: Partying

: Spinning absolute BS and pretending to be someone you are not

: High levels of confidence.

: Manipulative

Clearly women like these things to various degrees.

Truthfully I have tried both dating method sit there and let her talk, ask questions, sit there and sell myself and listen to her talk about herself. If I need to sit there and listen to someone take no interest in me then why I am sitting there?

Nothing I enjoy is very people centred at all so I guess that is my fault too.  The bold is exactly my point, people do things because everyone else does without actually asking themselves why they are doing them.

I hate talking about myself socially and almost never do.

 

I can pare down that list to confidence and fun.  All of that other stuff really doesn't matter all that much.

Improve your confidence, be a fun guy to be around and you'll get women.  There's your prescription.

If you take interest in her, she will take interest in you, eventually, once she's more attracted to you.  That takes time.  But the reality is that the person that has more attraction to the other at the beginning has the burden or raising that other person's attraction.  So since that's you (and you admit it) you have to raise her attraction of the women you like.  See how that works?

You ever hear the song "Girls Just wanna have fun?"  It's a simple truth.  They just want to have a good time.  I'm sure you have hobbies?  Why do you keep doing them?  Because you find enjoyment in them.  So the woman has to enjoy your presence.  She doesn't care how interested you are in her, she doesn't care how honest or how loyal you are.  How do you make her feel?  Listening to women, asking them appropriate follow up questions is not some huge chore and it makes them feel good.

Even still, you have to accept that you can do everything right on a date and she still may not like you.  The very best looking guys get rejected because there's no chemistry.

Edited January 26, 2021 by dramafreezone

[ZA Dater]

1 minute ago, dramafreezone said:

I can pare down that list to confidence and fun.  All of that other stuff really doesn't matter all that much.

Improve your confidence, be a fun guy to be around and you'll get women.  There's your prescription.

If you take interest in her, she will take interest in you, eventually, once she's more attracted to you.  That takes time.  But the reality is that the person that has more attraction to the other at the beginning has the burden or raising that other person's attraction.  So since that's you (and you admit it) you have to raise her attraction of the women you like.  See how that works?

Let me tell you a story. Against my better judgement a friend and I went to a club one evening, he is a few years older than me, successful good looking and by his own admission a playboy. I had the better conversation with one lady, no surprise who she ended up with and I did manage to find some confidence which was largely offset by awkwardness. 

There is no time given, they either like me or they do not and to be fair I apply the same criteria. 

On the very rare instances where I have found someone attractive, sure I do try and sell as best I can but I gave up doing that because it was pointless I just ended up looking stupid because there was always some Chad who was better so eventually I just adopted "well if I have a good conversation, its a win for me". I actually told this lady this so basically put myself in the friend zone right from the off, probably why she still communicates with me.

Just about all I can show her is I take an interest, I care and I am supportive which is are ALL good FRIEND qualities, that's the thing I have no redeeming dating qualities which is why I am probably never seen as being viable to date. They want experience and they want fun, have neither and well there are lots of others who do.

[ZA Dater]

I will try ask her out on a date and see what happens, she is of the opinion having a baby would severely limit her dating options which I do not think would be the case but what do I know really.

[dramafreezone]

21 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Let me tell you a story. Against my better judgement a friend and I went to a club one evening, he is a few years older than me, successful good looking and by his own admission a playboy. I had the better conversation with one lady, no surprise who she ended up with and I did manage to find some confidence which was largely offset by awkwardness. 

There is no time given, they either like me or they do not and to be fair I apply the same criteria. 

On the very rare instances where I have found someone attractive, sure I do try and sell as best I can but I gave up doing that because it was pointless I just ended up looking stupid because there was always some Chad who was better so eventually I just adopted "well if I have a good conversation, its a win for me". I actually told this lady this so basically put myself in the friend zone right from the off, probably why she still communicates with me.

Just about all I can show her is I take an interest, I care and I am supportive which is are ALL good FRIEND qualities, that's the thing I have no redeeming dating qualities which is why I am probably never seen as being viable to date. They want experience and they want fun, have neither and well there are lots of others who do.

You keep repeating the same thing, you're offering care and support.  No one cares about that.  This is part of where your block is. 

We're talking attraction.  You keep reinforncing these qualities that no one cares about because they play no role in attracting women, and you're neglecting qualities that would actually not only help to improve your experience with women but would actually enhance your own life, but you're still stuck on what you think should be important to women.

It's like you think you can improve your arm strength by doing squats.  Someone else mentioned earlier, but you want a short cut to getting women without self-improvement.  There is no short cut.

Edited January 26, 2021 by dramafreezone

[basil67]

6 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

That plus point only serves well those who cannot attract people they're attracted to.  Is this your way of pointing out to OP that he's too fussy and should lower his standards?

No, I interpreted this statement as being about his broad interpersonal skills.  

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Doing things you do not feel like doing is never a solution because you will never do those things well or to the best of your ability.

You can do them to best of your ability. And you can do them well with practice. People who don’t feel like exercising should still exercise even if they can’t run a marathon (yet).

 

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The wonderful thing is we get to choose for the most part and my choice has always been to not conform, there is absolutely no incentive for me to conform.

Conform to what exactly? I mean you can be as unique as you want, but that will only work if you’re attracted to unique women. You’re attracted to Instagram models and yoga instructors, pretty much the epitome of conforming to ideals of beauty. 

[SumGuy]

29 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

...

Conform to what exactly? I mean you can be as unique as you want, but that will only work if you’re attracted to unique women. You’re attracted to Instagram models and yoga instructors, pretty much the epitome of conforming to ideals of beauty. 

Can guarantee you you don't need to "conform" to the stereotypical chad (if using the slang correctly for the club guys ZA says get all the women) to attract instagram models (or my generations equivalent  ) or yoga instructors; especially not yoga instructors where I live.  One does need to free one's mind in my opinion, clinging to only chad's get the girl mentality as the sum total of how it works (among other things) is a heavy chain to hold onto.

[Weezy1973]

34 minutes ago, SumGuy said:

  One does need to free one's mind in my opinion, clinging to only chad's get the girl mentality as the sum total of how it works (among other things) is a heavy chain to hold onto.

What?? You mean for @ZA Dater to let go of his core beliefs?? Unthinkable!

[Foxhall]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Against my better judgement a friend and I went to a club one evening, he is a few years older than me, successful good looking and by his own admission a playboy. I had the better conversation with one lady, no surprise who she ended up with 

Yes what your friends are doing or what other guys in your circle are doing, this is creating a mental block for you,

you have to find your own path, find a woman that is right for you, not someone who will gain you the flattery of the social circle.

there is probably a very attractive woman out there for you, but she may not be interested in being a trophy wife among your circle,

try a new project maybe that leads you to new people.

 

 

 

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Foxhall said:

Yes what your friends are doing or what other guys in your circle are doing, this is creating a mental block for you,

you have to find your own path, find a woman that is right for you, not someone who will gain you the flattery of the social circle.

 

Exactly.

[basil67]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Let me tell you a story. Against my better judgement a friend and I went to a club one evening, he is a few years older than me, successful good looking and by his own admission a playboy. I had the better conversation with one lady, no surprise who she ended up with and I did manage to find some confidence which was largely offset by awkwardness.

Short of her telling you that the better conversation was with you, you've actually got no way of knowing who she enjoyed conversing with more.  

[ZA Dater]

17 hours ago, dramafreezone said:

You keep repeating the same thing, you're offering care and support.  No one cares about that.  This is part of where your block is. 

We're talking attraction.  You keep reinforncing these qualities that no one cares about because they play no role in attracting women, and you're neglecting qualities that would actually not only help to improve your experience with women but would actually enhance your own life, but you're still stuck on what you think should be important to women.

It's like you think you can improve your arm strength by doing squats.  Someone else mentioned earlier, but you want a short cut to getting women without self-improvement.  There is no short cut.

Fact is if I was going to have any success I'd had have had some by now.  No you right and I admitted a such I have zero attractive qualities whatsoever but then I look at guys who are successful and frankly I would not want those qualities anyway, you wont agree with me but ultimately one has to be happy in ones own skin, for years I tried to acquire those so called important qualities and all that really happened was I got no better results and pretending to be this and that just made me miserable because I knew I was not that person.

I became a lot happier when I simply reverted to being me and rather worked on things which did make me feel good like trying to be less shy, trying to be more confident. The point is I am never going to be enough of those to attract the sort of people I typically end up liking so I have a choice, either force myself to be attracted to people I am not an then make myself miserable or spend each day trying to focus on what I do want knowing it is fairly unlikely at best but, again you wont agree, I'd rather do that than do nothing at all. 

As mentioned the type of help I want will never arrive and while that is not ok I simply accept the world does not work like that but by the same view there is no reason I cannot simply be the supportive guy I am and just be who I am, even if it means I wont ever succeed at dating, its ONLY when I meet people I do like that I do wish I was actually able to be better at dating and realistically that does not happen very often.

The way I see it, you either settle for settle sake or you be alone, unless by some miracle you actually play yourself into a position of being desirable enough but even then there are no assurances.

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, SumGuy said:

Can guarantee you you don't need to "conform" to the stereotypical chad (if using the slang correctly for the club guys ZA says get all the women) to attract instagram models (or my generations equivalent  ) or yoga instructors; especially not yoga instructors where I live.  One does need to free one's mind in my opinion, clinging to only chad's get the girl mentality as the sum total of how it works (among other things) is a heavy chain to hold onto.

Which is why in this instance I might actually try but I try without any expectation of success, we chatted about dating extensively and she knows pretty much everything the forum does and still chose to keep in contact, albeit sporadically so either I have the friend zone or I have a sympathy vote. Oddly enough said friends are not pushing me to try go out with her, which is fairly odd. 

At the end of the day I simply do not know how to date or flirt or charm, I simply know how to take an interest and have a conversation. Not exactly a long list of assets it has to be said. 

For a long time I cared what people thought of me, I know they all think I am odd, some sn***** behind my back 'when is he going to get laid" but I actually long ago put all of that out of my mind. Its telling I do not get invited to certain events anymore (not that I am complaining because they were always very uncomfortable for me anyway)

Inexperience in whatever form is never too attractive to many. 

For context its not like I sit here thinking I am the best guy out there, I know I am not, I know I simply cannot compete at most of what women find attractive. I know the flaws and at this point I have given up hiding them, they are what they are. Sure, given the chance, I would have done many things differently, things which would have vastly improved my dating prospects now or at the very least given me some experience. For context every single time I asked someone out in HS I was rejected, often very much in public too. I tried to send Valentines cards and flowers, rejected every time. Its all good and well to say move on but when you are getting hit in the face all the time, eventually you do not want to play the game. I often think if maybe I had had some success there I would have been a lot more motivated and confident to try find it again because as it stands I have no idea what dating is actually like, I have no idea what it would be like to actually get to know someone on that level. Can I connect on that level I am not sure I can to be fair, years and years of relentless trying have not got me anywhere and certainly have not made me less jaded or hopeful.

The only way for me is to turn the whole thing around and say "well life has not given me this, but it has given me that".

If nothing else the rejection I have had at dating has made me a strong person.

[Cookiesandough]

Honestly, it was probably that she had a better conversation with the Chad guy but she was just being polite and conversing with you as well. A lot of women find it much more easy to talk to people that people they are not into.  Much more easy than someone that they are all tongue-tied ,in knots, flipping their hair over, even if they’re actually enjoying the conversation  more .... 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[Trail Blazer]

13 minutes ago, Shortskirtslonglashes said:

Honestly, it was probably that she had a better conversation with the Chad guy but she was just being polite and conversing with you as well. I find it very easy to talk to people that I am not into.  Much more easy than someone that I’m all tongue-tied ,in knots, flipping my hair over, even if I’m actually enjoying that more .... 

That's funny, because I'm the exact opposite.  I find it hard to talk to someone I'm not interested in because... I'm not interested in them! 

There's usually a reason why I am interested in someone and it generally isn't just about their looks.  I've probably already engaged with them on some intellectual level, so the convo just flows.

Do you think that it's more a female trait?  To get tongue-tied, in knots and flipping your hair all over the place if you're talking to a new guy who you're feeling a little hot-under-the-collar for?

[Cookiesandough]

11 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

That's funny, because I'm the exact opposite.  I find it hard to talk to someone I'm not interested in because... I'm not interested in them! 

There's usually a reason why I am interested in someone and it generally isn't just about their looks.  I've probably already engaged with them on some intellectual level, so the convo just flows.

Do you think that it's more a female trait?  To get tongue-tied, in knots and flipping your hair all over the place if you're talking to a new guy who you're feeling a little hot-under-the-collar for?

I’m not completely sure, but I’ve heard a lot of men say the same thing.  I think with a lot of people, even if they can talk to people with ease, they act a bit different with people they are into. I think it is just that being around someone you are very attracted to you can have a emotional and physiological affect on you that can make interacting with them more difficult. There is more on the line and a little bit more thinking into things. I’ve seen this with friends too. I can tell very easily whether or not she’s just talking with a man as a friend or if she is into a guy. It’s not just about the flirty banter,  there are S*** tests and walls put up and a lot of the time. If you are very confident and levelheaded, I suppose that it has less of an impact. But a lot of people are not 100% confident especially around people that they are attracted to.

but yes, that she ended up dating the guy who she seemed not to enjoy the conversation with leads me to believe that there were things in play that made it seem like she didn’t rather than she just didn’t like it.