Issues with Mother (possibly with depression, anxiety, compulsive disorder, etc) since father's death

[Pod81]

Hello everyone! It's been about 8 years since I've last posted on here (it was a rough breakup that brought me here and I want to thank all of those who lent me their ears) and now, just wanted to get your advice on something completely unrelated. Just as a warning, this is a long story and I'll try to make it as concise as possible:

My father had unfortunately passed about 3 months ago and of course, this has been emotionally difficult for my mom. They had continued to live in the same home that both my sister and I grew up in (5 bedroom, over 3000 square feet) with a full basement. Ever since his funeral, my sister and I have been trying to help our mother downsize since it doesn't make any sense to live in that house now that we've all grown up and moved out. On top of that, she's paying nearly 20k USD in property taxes a year for a home that is way more than she needs. Even more importantly, her knees are not in great shape and I'm afraid she'll be at risk for injury with the stairs. With her age well into her 70's, I believe this problem will only get worse and not better. My mom claims that understands that she needs to downsize, but many of our attempts to help her in doing so have been met with resistance. When I first ordered a dumpster to help de-clutter the home of junk, she threw a tantrum of the highest order. Despite yelling at us, stomping her feet, etc, we eventually got our way and got to work. It was not until after she saw how much stuff thrown away did she realize that we were right.

Just as an aside, my mom has always been a compulsive shopper/hoarder and the home has gotten worse since both of us have moved out. In order to understand the situation, it helps to understand my mom's personality. She was always a "tiger mom", meaning that some would say she's borderline controlling , extremely stubborn, and likes to resist other people's opinions (even if we were clearly right and she was wrong). She usually ended up having her way because my dad was definitely more passive and very anti-confrontational. Her mood is very volatile - she can be laughing and smiling one minute, then yelling and angry the next. On top of that, she's a compulsive shopper/hoarder. We had tried to tell her this all throughout childhood but never listened to us until recently when she finally realizes how much junk she has. She even has made comments recently like "I have a big problem and it'd be so much easier if I just burned this house down."

So after the dumpster incident, we had an estate sale. During the estate sale, she had yelled at the estate sales manager multiple times about selling her things for cheap (which was to be expected anyway) and making it a difficult time for the rest of us. Miraculously, the estate sale did go to completion and ended up being somewhat successful but she was still left with a lot of stuff to go through. Now that that's over, my mom is evidently still depressed, unable to clean up, and says she does not know where to even begin. When my sister goes over to help her donate piles of clothes, my mother would once again resist attempts of cleaning up and tells her to go home.

I live out of state, so I was only able to help out my mother for about one month before I flew back across the country. My sister, however, lives about one hour drive away and is forced to do everything for her for the past few weeks (paying bills, dealing with social security, my dad's pension, investments, etc). What makes this even more frustrating for her is that my mom has always been pretty forgetful and loses things pretty easily (as an example, she already lost keys to the bank lock box as well as the bank passbook in the past month). She has no organizational skills whatsoever because she completely relied on my dad for that. My sister is nearly at her wits end because quite frankly, my mother has no skills to be able to live independently. My dad had spoiled her to the point where she does not even know how to write a check or use a computer! He literally did EVERYTHING for her except shopping compulsively and cooking. Although my mother has good intentions and she provided so much for us growing up, she is very difficult to deal with (showing little to no motivation to learn how to be independent, relying on us for those tasks that I've mentioned, getting confrontational when it comes to helping her clean).

How should we proceed? I think we should abandon the whole downsizing thing for at least a few months even if it means she's a slight risk to get injured and she's paying taxes through the nose. She's clearly not emotionally ready to move on to the next stage in her life and needs time to accept what has happened. For those who have been through this, how long does this even take? Will she EVER be ready for the downsize? It pains me to know that she's pretty lonely and this is when she needs us the most, but her volatility/controlling behavior has made it so difficult. She knows she has a problem and says one thing, but her actions (or lack thereof) say the opposite. We're trying to bite the bullet and be there for her, but we have been super stressed dealing with all of this. 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by Pod81

[MsJayne]

We had the same problem with my mother in a very similar situation, and it took about two years before she would actually admit that she needed a smaller place and to be close to family who could look after her.  She then proceeded to make one stupid decision after another because my siblings allowed her to. If it had been up to me I would have put my foot down with her and told her what was happening rather than allow her to take over and cause hassles for all involved. It's likely your mum is experiencing depression and anxiety given her dependence on your father and her inability to survive without help, she probably feels very lost despite you and your sister being there for her, but you can't allow her to dictate the terms of her twilight years to the point of it causing problems. I know that a big part of my mother's refusal to leave a certain place was that it meant letting go of everything that was familiar to her, and in your mum's case perhaps the familiarity of her home is her connection to your father, and to leave is to abandon their life together. Maybe you could discuss that with her and point out that she would be taking most of her things, (their things) with her, so she would still have him around her. 

[Watercolors]

OP, since you live out of state and your sister has to give up her time and commute an hour to/from your family home to deal with your mother, I think that you need to hire outside help. Such as, a hoarding specialist.

Quote

Hoarding specialists work carefully with home owners to choose a charitable cause that befits them and their family. Once a charity is chosen, items are decided upon and sorted to make sure donations are separate from important items that should be kept in the home

https://www.clutterhoardingcleanup.com/resources/hoarding/hoarding-specialists

Hoarders have severe psychological problems that family members can't fix, because they are not trained. Hoarder specialists are trained to help the hoarder clean up their space.

I don't know what city/state your mom lives in, but if you do an internet search of "hoarder specialist" plus the name of your mom's city and state, I'm sure you will find a company that specializes in hoarder cleanup. I strongly urge you to take that route. If you leave your mother alone because it's too inconvenient for you or your sister, then you both are responsible for your mother's continued hoarding behavior. In essence, you and your sister, by ignoring the problem "temporarily" enable your mother's behavior to get worse. It's not a good long-term solution to just ignore it for a couple of months.

You need to address your mom's hoarding and spending right now. It doesn't really matter how much of a tiger mom your mom is. She has a serious mental illness - hoarding - and unless you get the experts involved who can help your mom, you and your sister will likely find yourselves in serious financial trouble if your mom doesn't pay the home's mortgage and she just shuts down and does nothing because that is her dysfunctional way of coping with your father's death. Now that your father has died, it exposes your mom's dysfunctional behavior to herself; she doesn't like what she sees, that she has a hoarding problem (even though you claim she admits she has a shopping problem).

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/hoarding-disorder/expert-q-and-a

Quote

Because there are strong attachments to the clutter and the clutter is a result of a disorder which causes excessive acquisition and decisions to save possessions, simply removing the clutter may not help. Only changing the amount of acquisitions and decisions to save will keep the clutter manageable.

Imagine treating a person with alcoholism by throwing away their wine bottles—this would not likely work as a long-term solution, and the person would likely go back to drinking if they did not get professional help to treat their underlying problems. 

In addition, if a family member “just went in and removed the clutter” it would most likely result in disastrous consequences, including: rupture of trust, alienating the family member, increasing the family member’s anxiety, depression/suicidality, thus potentially delaying their time to receiving care and treatment.

Your mom can get put on a medication for her hoarding, she can go to outpatient therapy, be assigned a social worker who specializes in hoarding. There's many ways to treat her shopping addiction and hoarding behavior. If she refuses to do those things voluntarily, your sister (since she lives in the same state) can force your mom to conditional inpatient status, where she will be evaluated by the county court, and forced to deal with her problems or be committed as an inpatient for a year or more. Sometimes, you have to do that to help hoarders. They are just very detached from reality because they think they live by different rules than the rest of society. Hoarders believe they are exempt from accountability.

Quote

There are multiple types of help for individuals with hoarding disorder, including self-help books, support groups, individual talk therapy, medications and group therapy. New studies are underway examining internet-based treatments. Emerging evidence supports peer-facilitated group treatments.

https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/hoarding-disorder/expert-q-and-a

[Wiseman2]

Did you know that there are specilists who deal with hoarders? 

They come to the house, they understand the situation and emotional attachment to junk, and calmly but surely start to get the place cleaned up.

You two are going to take the brunt of things because you are trying to barge in ( yes with good intentions) but are going to be met with massive resistance.

Do either of you have power of attorney? Is she competent to handle the finances? Does she have a will/ estate attorney? It may be a better idea to let her see a doctor and get some in-house social workers to help her downside and find the right retirement situation for herself.

Kids handling thier parents affairs is a slippery slope. For example she could easily contact elder protective services and tell them her adult children are financially exploiting her and  bullying her.

You need to back off and let professionals especially social workers help her.

Selling her stuff against her will, as practical as that is, is foolish if you don't have power of attorney. 

 

[Pod81]

Watercolors, you do bring up a good point in that this is certainly is a mental health issue and none of us have the professional training to deal with the hoarding/shopping problem. Today, I tried to bring up the idea of a therapist with her while voicing my concern for her well being - specifically, about her crying outbursts, the shopping addiction, the refusal to throw out or donate her clothes (at this point, she has over 15 medium moving boxes worth of clothes). Although I tried to do so in a tactful manner (never insulting her or trying to force therapy on her), she got extremely defensive.

As far as the crying outbursts, she yells at me and says "Of course I'm upset! Do you think I'll be happy?" I then tell her that therapy isn't there to make her necessarily feel happy but that it can help hasten to healing process and to help compartmentalize her thoughts. She then brushes it off, saying that it's a waste of money - even though I told her we would pay the bill and that money is no object when it comes to her mental well being. Yet, this was to no avail. At one point during the phone conversation, she tries to mentally manipulate me by condescendingly saying "you haven't even seen what I'm like because your sister has been here almost every week and you're not even here." Unbelievable that she tried to flip this around on me considering I did go back for an entire month. Has she forgotten that so quickly?

With the shopping addiction, she states something to the effect of "You watch me over the next year. You'll see that I won't go shopping anymore". So begrudgingly, I give her the benefit of the doubt with that one.

Lastly, when dealing with the refusal to throw out or donate her belongings, she once again tries to flip this on my sister and me. She goes "it's easy for you guys to throw things out because you grew up with all the nice things, you have money, and never had to struggle financially." This is absolutely nonsense because neither my sister or I ever felt the need to compulsively shop for things that we don't need. Secondly, we are not the type to buy frivolous, luxury items either.

As you can see, even though I try to help my mother out, she was adamant about not getting any therapy and went as far to use this to manipulate and turn this against us and pointing out our flaws - or at least what she thinks are flaws in her eyes. If it's of any importance, we are of Asian descent, and there is certainly a stigma of mental health in traditional culture. Although mental illness knows no cultural boundaries, it is generally swept under a rug and not dealt with because doing so would cause one to "lose face" and show weakness. I think this whole idea is a sack of crap, but that's entirely another topic on its own. Bottom line is - are there any other options other than let her be? I'm a huge believer that you cannot help someone who do not want to help themselves. Obviously, you can't force someone to go to therapy even if it is in their best interests. This is especially the case with someone who is controlling, stubborn, and a master manipulator.

[Pod81]

Wiseman2, my mother's English is quite poor and my dad literally did everything for her, so the chances of her contacting elder protective services are pretty close to zero. She cannot handle ANY of her affairs and frankly, cannot take on any adult responsibilities except cook and the occasional cleaning. For the most part, we're not selling/throwing out her stuff against her will. Luckily, she has agreed to sell some of her stuff, but when it comes to certain other things (like her clothes, for example), she will not let us touch it. As you can see from my previous post, calling any professional services (social workers, therapists, etc) is going to be extremely difficult - if not, impossible. Trying to force this will likely cause irreparable damage to the relationship between her and my sister and me. I'm debating whether I should just give her the benefit of the doubt and believe her when she says she'll stop compulsively buying things because what else is there to do? Sometimes, I feel like giving up trying to help her and let her do what she wants, even if it's not in her best interests.

[Wiseman2]

Can she go to a regular doctor for a check-up? Perhaps her cognative status can be assessed from a medical standpoint, as it should be.

Certainly there's no sigma about seeing physicians, no? By social worker, it was meant to help her deal with her day to day practical living, not as therapy or mental health.

 

[Emilie Jolie]

40 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Can she go to a regular doctor for a check-up? Perhaps her cognative status can be assessed from a medical standpoint, as it should be.

Certainly there's no sigma about seeing physicians, no? By social worker, it was meant to help her deal with her day to day practical living, not as therapy or mental health.

 

cognitive - there, fixed it for you (hope you don't mind, I like being thorough  )

Otherwise, excellent point. I do think most people should be checked out for cognitive and / or potential mental health issues. In fact, I feel like a few therapy sessions a year should be made compulsory for all as part of some sort of care package. Not to label people necessarily - more so to understand our patterns of behaviours and why we keep going over and over the same cycle. Most people are generally not the best at self-awareness, they tend to project their own issues onto other people. That, combined with a heightened sense of superiority, make them unable to see who they are.

I'm sorry for what you're going through, @Pod81 - sometimes, people can't or won't fix themselves, and there's nothing you can do about it. That needs to come from within. 

All you can do is watch on from the sidelines as they show themselves for who they are; it's heartbreaking when it's a relative or someone you care about, I get that, but these people will end up bitter and alone.

Do what you can to help, but not at the expense of your own health - set your boundaries, take steps back whenever needed and look after your own mental health. That's all you can do  

Edited December 18, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[Wiseman2]

Cognitive status is a neurological assessment made by a physician.

It's not therapy.

[Emilie Jolie]

14 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Cognitive status is a neurological assessment made by a physician.

It's not therapy.

I think there might be some cultural differences here. Where I am in the UK, I don't think a GP will be able to assess you for cognitive functioning, since they are not specialised in it. They generally refer you to a specialist though (a therapist, a psychiatrist, a psychologist) who will be able to carry out the relevant tests. That can take up months or years - I know from personal experience. I think what you're saying maybe is that a GP can send you to a cognitive behaviour therapy course? The clue is is even the wording

Is a physician generally best placed to make a cognitive status assessment where you are? 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Is a physician generally best placed to make a cognitive status assessment where you are? 

Most physicians conduct the appropriate exam and studies such as a neurological exam, appropriate brain scans etc. "Cognitive functioning" in the US means mental status  i.e. dementia symptoms, etc. It is not a mental health term in  the US, It is a neurological assessment. 

[Emilie Jolie]

Ah gotcha. Sounds like you're talking about neurocognitive tests, no?

In your earlier post, it seemed like you were using cognitive and neurorogical interchangeably, that's what threw me .

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Most physicians conduct the appropriate exam and studies such as a neurological exam, appropriate brain scans etc. "Cognitive functioning" in the US means mental status  i.e. dementia symptoms, etc. It is not a mental health term in  the US, It is a neurological assessment. 

Do you not have specialised terms for medical professionals in the US? Is everyone a 'physician'? This simplifies things I guess but as I mentioned earlier, I like to be thorough. To me a physician is simply a GP .

Glad we cleared that up, though!

 

[introverted1]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:25 AM, Emilie Jolie said:

Do you not have specialised terms for medical professionals in the US? Is everyone a 'physician'? This simplifies things I guess but as I mentioned earlier, I like to be thorough. To me a physician is simply a GP .

Glad we cleared that up, though!

Cognitive testing = dementia screening (or similar impairment)

Physician - general term for medical doctors that does not indicate the doctor's specialty. Doctors are organised by specialty.  Specialties include neurology, psychiatry (typically but not always reserved for severe mental illness - most people see psychologists or "counselors" - training varies quite a bit), internal medicine (these are typically GPs), cardiology, etc.

Either a GP or a neurologist can administer a general cognitive screening. If that screen indicates a problem, the patient would be referred to a neurologist for additional testing and possibly imaging, etc.

 

[d0nnivain]

You need to slow down. 

I am so sorry about your father's passing but it was only 90 days ago.  You & your sister have valid reasons for wanting your mom to downsize but your timing is too accelerated.  You can't expect your poor mom to give up her link to your dad this quickly.   She needs to process & that won't happen quickly in a pandemic over the holidays.  You pushing her makes it worse. 

Fly your mother out to you & let her spend a month or so with your family.  She needs love & understanding.  Her whole world -- your father -- is gone.  She's never going to get over that but her pain will become less acute in time. 

When she gets back you & your sister show her more manageable living options & let her chose.  Give her choices -- closer to your sister or maybe even in your state. 

[elaine567]

She may be old, she may be failing but she is still an adult and all this bullying her into selling her stuff and downsizing is frankly appalling.
She has just lost her husband, she is grieving and weak.
She needs time to process and time to set herself back on track.
Fine, sell all her stuff including the family home, discount all her memories and install her into a new smaller, more "suitable" home...Job done. 
3 months dead and her husband and all their life together has been erased as if he never existed...               
Everybody feels so much better, everybody that is  apart from the grieving widow...

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Cognitive testing = dementia screening (or similar impairment)

Physician - general term for medical doctors that does not indicate the doctor's specialty. Doctors are organised by specialty.  Specialties include neurology, psychiatry (typically but not always reserved for severe mental illness - most people see psychologists or "counselors" - training varies quite a bit), internal medicine (these are typically GPs), cardiology, etc.

Either a GP or a neurologist can administer a general cognitive screening. If that screen indicates a problem, the patient would be referred to a neurologist for additional testing and possibly imaging, etc.

 

This 100%. My mother’s physician gave her a memory test - a cognitive test - without her even knowing. That’s how physicians here in the U.S. do it. They ask the elderly patient random questions to test their cognitive state of mind as in, test their memory. If the patient fails the “memory” test, then, the physician can order out-patient services such as from a nursing agency that supplies nurses to come and help the patient with preparing meals, doing housework, taking medication, bathing, and helping them at bedtime etc. 

I think the OP’s mom is compulsively spending is not a sign of dementia, but of mental illness. Hoarders are mentally ill. They attach value to objects. And, if asked to let go of those objects, freak out and refuse, b/c they perceive those objects to be in their control. If they lose the object, they lose control and have to deal with their own miserable reality. I’ve watched the cable tv show Hoaders for years. The hoarders just can’t be rehabilitated. No matter what the specialists do for them. It’s sad to watch. Hoarders will hoard anywhere they live, even in nursing homes. My mother’s suite mate is a major hoarder. I caught her taking items from my mother’s room to bring to her room. It infuriated me. I told the nursing director and aides but they can’t monitor my mother’s suite mate 24/7. So, I had to put away a lot of valuable family heirlooms that I didn’t want her suite mate to take and do god knows what with. 

OP, you need to intervene. So what if it makes your mom mad at you. She is a hoarder and if you and your sister do nothing, you are essentially enabling your mom’s hoarding behavior. She isn’t going to help herself. She is a hoarder. Hoarders are incapable of self-help. They cope with their emotional problems, like your dad’s death, by compulsively shopping and hoarding. She will probably stop paying her mortgage, her electricity bill, and the bank will take her house away from her. If you need to let that happen, then let it happen. But then you’ll be forced to have your mom medically evaluated for hoarding, and put into assisted living or a nursing home. Those are the best two places for her, I believe. She is incapable of living alone after your dad’s death. 

[Watercolors]

38 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

She may be old, she may be failing but she is still an adult and all this bullying her into selling her stuff and downsizing is frankly appalling.
She has just lost her husband, she is grieving and weak.
She needs time to process and time to set herself back on track.
Fine, sell all her stuff including the family home, discount all her memories and install her into a new smaller, more "suitable" home...Job done. 
3 months dead and her husband and all their life together has been erased as if he never existed...               
Everybody feels so much better, everybody that is  apart from the grieving widow...

That’s not a reasonable response, elaine. The OP’s mom is a hoarder she has a serious mental illness. Yes, she just lost her husband. But her hoarding behavior and compulsive spending without the help of her children, will go out of control. She doesn’t have to stay in a big empty house to process her grief. She can process her grief in a small 2 bedroom condo, for example. Selling her stuff and downsizing is a healthy coping mechanism for grief too. There’s a ton of research out there about it. 

After my father died, my mom sold our family home within the year because the mortgage was too much for her despite having his insurance money. She didn’t like being alone in a 3 story house. So, she downsized to move into a 2 bedroom condo which she loved. But eventually her cognitive mental health declined when she got dementia, so she had to be evaluated by her physician for Alzheimer’s. I took her to her doctor appointment for a ‘general checkup’ but had spoken to the nurse ahead of time. The nurse asked my mom random questions that checked my mom’s memory: 

What day is it? 
What year is it? 
Do you know who the president of the U.S. is? 

Questions like that. Well, fortunately, my mom failed her cognitive memory test and that started the process of getting the county to get her an elderly waiver, so that I could afford to put her in a decent memory care that costs $5-7,000 a year. I think the OP and his sister seriously need to consider having their mom evaluated by her doctor. But one of them has to be in attendance; the sister should set up the cognitive memory test ahead of time with their mom’s doctor. And also discuss her hoarding behavior. Most geriatric physicians deal with hoarding and dementia in their elderly patients. 

[Miss Spider]

Hi. Sorry to hear about your father and what you and your mom are going through now.  I worry so much about my parents losing it when one of them dies ... they love each other so much and depend one another. Grief usually passes eventually. So definitely give her time and space to grieve. She will probably act crazy and do crazy things during this time. If it continues on you may need to get her some professional help.
 

 When you are younger you think your parents invincible and have all the answers in a way. It’s traumatic, realization that they are just people that are a little older who had sex and plopped you out. They don’t know much more about what they are doing on this planet than you. So just be patient with them and understanding. As they age, the rules sort of reverse and you are the one that needs to take care of them in a way. I wish you your mother strength and healing . 

[spiderowl]

I know you want to help your mum, OP, and to make things easier for you and your family.  Your mother needs time to process her loss and adjust to the new situation.  She is feeling overwhelmed and urging her to make decisions at the moment is too much. 

She may have a hoarding disorder, but she is right when she says you might not understand what it is like to be without.  Those of us who have had to scratch about for the essentials in the past think twice before giving them up - in case we need them and cannot afford them again.  I have to be careful not to hoard and to realise that I can replace things now if I need to.  I couldn't in the past.  Do not dismiss her anxieties; they may well come from a time when you were tiny and your parents were struggling to make ends meet.

I am sure she is capable of understanding if she does not need a large house.  You need to let her come to this conclusion by herself, perhaps with a few suggestions of how much easier it would be for her if she didn't have so many stairs, but with the appreciation that this is her home and all her memories and (perceived) security is there.  There are things that can make her house a little safer - an extra bannister on the stairs for example, non-slip bath or shower base, handles for helping her to pull herself out of the bath or shower.

While it is logical that your mother may need a smaller place and less stuff - and she may well in the long term - for the moment, her comfort, security and happiness is surely what matters?  Can you find ways to make your mother feel secure and supported without taking away what is left of her independence and familiar surroundings?

I do fully appreciate that what is obviously the easier course of action to you and siblings may not be what your mother wants.  It is frustrating but perhaps try to channel that frustration instead into supporting her in feeling more secure where she is.  After all, she has had a great shock in her life and is elderly.  She probably feels she has little left but the house and her children.

If you are willing to help her by arranging counselling, why not talk to her about grief counselling, to help her through this incredibly stressful time?  If you find the right counsellor, they will cover grief and other problems a person might be experiencing in adjusting to life after bereavement.  It might help you all.

 

 

[Miss Clavel]

what helped me was pictures of places i might go and live. 

[Pod81]

So an update to our situation: She actually ended up selling her home recently and the whole process was like pulling teeth. Even though we recommended that she downgrades her home, we (my sister and I) explicitly told her a few times that it is ultimately her decision and that we would support her as long as she is able to support herself financially. The issue at play here is that through the whole process, I have grown to be somewhat resentful of her because of her behavior. I understand she is going through a fragile moment right now, but please let me explain:

When I offered to help find her places to rent after she moves out, I suggested that she lives closer to my sister so that someone can take care of her. My aunt (my mom's younger sister) would be nearby and can also check up on her. However, she was very reluctant to move to that area because she wanted to be closer to her friends. Even though my aunt has agreed to take on her hoarded stuff, which is boxed up and in her garage, and calls my mom almost daily, my mom still has no desire to live near her. From my standpoint, she seems to value friends (or at least takes their advice more to heart) more than us. Whenever we try to suggest something, she makes it a point to go against what we say, almost as if she HAS to exert control in some way. An example is that her friends recently suggested that she buys a new Lexus shortly after my dad's passing even though she has 2 perfectly functioning cars. For about a month, she was pretty hellbent on buying a new car. Ultimately, she got what she wanted even though she did question her own purchase shortly afterwards. Her friends also suggested that she buy a brand, new home in this particular neighborhood, which is nowhere near the rest of the family. If you know how the housing market is right now, you'll understand that now is a terrible time to be buying. Furthermore, if she chooses to buy a home there, it will be my sister and my aunt who will have to drive over an hour to help her. She doesn't know how to make online payments, gather papers for property tax, write checks, or general maintenance of the home - and guess what? We'll have to be the ones who help her with that - NOT her friends. Needless to say, I am not a big fan of them.

So, I found a place that seems to work out pretty well on paper as it's close to the family. When she refused, I confronted my mom about how I felt like she valued her friends over the family. That's when her full-on, volatile NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) mode came on. She somehow turned this against me, saying that we forced her to selling her home even though we explicitly stated a few times that we only recommended that she sells it and that if she wanted to stay, we would support that. She then went on this tirade about how her friends are there to comfort her and that I don't talk to her on the phone (when in reality, I talk to her on the phone about 2-3 times a week). Also, I'm not there to see her (even though I lived with her for about a month and a half shortly after my dad's passing in Sept) AND I'm currently transitioning into a new job that is expected to start in a few weeks. She also attacked me in that I moved across to the other side of the country. She is the ultimate gaslighter and emotional manipulator and somehow loves to distort the truth in order to make me look like a terrible son. What I can't stand about my mother is that she has little self awareness and cannot take any criticism, never apologizes, and somehow uses criticism as an opportunity to attack or belittle you (even if it means bending the truth). Speaking of belittling, she also has a history of belittling and criticizing my brother-in-law, almost to the point where it ruined my sister's marriage. Therefore, her living with my sister is not an option.

Another thing about my mother is that she LOVES money and how people perceive her (thus, her wanting to buy a new car and a new home). She is absolutely gutted over the idea of renting a place to stay because it is a sunk, irrecoverable cost. However, she does NOT have what it takes to own a home and all the work that it entails. So far, it is mostly my sister (and a little bit of me) who has to do all the work with refinancing, taxes, etc. My sister is literally overwhelmed with the work that she has to do for my mother. Even though she tried to teach my mother how to do all these things, she exhibits little to no desire to actually learn. Long story short, she LOVES making money as an end goal, but does not want to do the actual nitty-gritty work to attain it because my dad had always done this for her, which my sister is now mostly doing.

To be honest, I'm not sure what I'm hoping to accomplish  - perhaps mostly venting and some advice. How do you deal with mothers with strong NPD tendencies? She's certainly in a time of crisis (due to my dad's recently passing and the selling of her home) and she needs help, but any sound help is often met with rage and manipulation. What she desires (buying a new car, buying a home further away from family, flip flopping between wanting to selling/not selling her 5 bedroom home when she is the only one residing there, having someone do all the organizational paperwork with her investments/homes that she owns when she clearly has no desire in learning, etc) does not help her situation, and in many ways, puts us in a more stressful predicament.

 

[vla1120]

That's quite a predicament you have with your mother. It sounds like she is determined to remain independent. If she still has all her faculties, I don't see why she cannot remain independent, unless there is a physical or mental reason this is not possible. A geriatric doctor will better be able to assess her abilities.This is why it's very important to get her to a doctor to ensure that she has all her faculties and is capable of living on her own and taking care of herself. Quite frankly, if your mother refuses to move near one of you so that you can take care of her bill paying, etc., that falls on HER to ensure those financial issues are taken care of for herself. Also, the convenience of paying bills online is that you can do it from anywhere. You or your sister could help her set up her accounts and then, if she wants you to, you could login and pay her bills - OR - set up autopay for her monthly bills. That's what I did for my late husband when he claimed he could not do it for himself. 

Also, there are senior living communities where you can own your own home that have on-site resources for the elderly. Is that the type of community she is looking at for herself? I wouldn't be so quick to try to take over your mother's life. I'm 60-years-old and have been self-sufficient and independent all my life. The day my daughters try to dictate how and where I live my life is the day that I move far enough away from them that they cannot try to control me.

As far as her having NPD and being impossible to deal with, there is only so much that you can do. If she is fully capable (both mentally and physically) of self-care, I'd say let her make her own decisions and live with the consequences. Again, a physician who specializes in these issues would be your best resource - to find out whether she really needs you and your sister to be making decisions for her.

[Wiseman2]

You may need to step away from long standing conflicts and recognize that she may have the earliest symptoms of dementia.

[spiderowl]

I'm sorry, OP, I can appreciate you are facing a really difficult situation.

I agree with another poster that setting up direct debits from a current bank account to pay her essential bills is the way to go, if she'll agree to this being done.

I feel for all your family; looking after someone who is getting less capable but doesn't realise it is really challenging and not something anyone wants to have to do.

It sounds to me like it would be best for her to buy a home that is more suitable for her, if she is against paying rent.  Most older people who have struggled to buy a home would not want to go back to paying rent.  What is the purpose of her renting a home if she could afford to buy?

It would be best for all of you if your mother was making as many of her own choices as possible.  A health assessment would be an important step to see what she is actually capable of.  

Is there some reason she cannot buy a supported living place of her own?  That would take the pressure of her family somewhat and you would know she was as safe as she could be.

I know it all sounds easy on paper but is a hell of a lot more difficult when trying to manage things.  I really wish you all the best in coming to a solution that keeps everyone happy.  The fact is that many older people live in unsatisfactory situations until a crisis occurs.  This is largely because they want to be independent.  I know you are trying to avoid a crisis occurring but it is still important that your mother has as much choice over her life as possible.

I agree with you that her friends don't seem to be making the best suggestions for her, but then again, it is her life, her money and she can fritter it away if she chooses. The question is, is she of sound mind and able to make that choice or is she mentally vulnerable to being taken advantage of?  This is why she needs a medical assessment.

Edited April 24, 2021 by spiderowl