Karma for OW/OM

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I'm in a deeply reflective state this week because one of my closest friends from high school days died yesterday. I spent time with her over the weekend seeing her making her way to the end of life. She and I were the same age...40's, which is still young enough to accomplish some great stuff in life but old enough to have some common sense.

I have been reflecting on her choices that led to her death, and then reflecting on my own choices. I'm not exactly where I want to be in some areas (could be worse but still there are some differences between what I want and where I am). I started reflecting on choices I've made the past couple of years that got me where I am now. 

One of those was getting so emotionally wrapped up with a married man. I've grown so much as a person for the experience and I'll carry that into my other relationships. Still, giving so much of myself left me without the partner I want. Then, I thought... it's sort of an instant karma for those of us who get ourselves into these types of situations. There is a big cost even though we can't or won't see it at the time.  Took me a long time to stop blaming him. I'm seeing others here blame their AP's. The AP is guilty but so are we, and we pay the price to not recognize this.

Anyone else want to weigh in on the instant karma idea for those who were/are in affairs?

[lifeoflies]

Sorry to hear of your friend’s death. 
 

im not in agreement with your karma theory. You made a mistake. You don’t deserve to be punished although many here might not agree with me. You’ve learned from this mistake and you’re moving on. You should congratulate yourself.  Good luck. 

[Aether]

I've also wondered what my karma would be for my choices, and much like you felt that I didn't deserve more since I already seem to have what I deserve so it does feel like instant karma and I've seen it that way.

I don't feel like I'm blaming anyone, but as I type that I'm thinking "why couldn't you have just left me alone when I said no a year ago?  Why did you have to determine to break down that boundary and proceed to slowly and unintentionally (I know this was not the intention) destroy me over what has become the worst year of my life?" So I guess a part of me is blaming him currently, but he won't allow me to take any responsibility for it, he takes all the blame on himself.  

The pain is very raw, the end only came last night and I'm not in a place right now to express that in text on here.  I'm sorry for the death of your friend @HadMeOverABarrel, I've been quiet here for a long time, only lurking, but when I needed it I always found your spiritual view of things helped me a lot, thank you for that.

[Wiseman2]

Great insight. Agree, play with fire, get burnt.🔥

[HadMeOverABarrel]

1 hour ago, Aether said:

The pain is very raw, the end only came last night and I'm not in a place right now to express that in text on here.  I'm sorry for the death of your friend @HadMeOverABarrel, I've been quiet here for a long time, only lurking, but when I needed it I always found your spiritual view of things helped me a lot, thank you for that.

Thank you for your kind words.

[BlindsidedTwice]

My husband and I experienced pregnancy loss this past summer - a little over a year after the end of my A.

No matter how “common” miscarriage is, I will always think of it as karma/punishment for how I behaved. I chose to let my mind, heart, and body act in the most selfish of ways... and in return, my body failed me and my baby. My heart is still broken and my mind will never be the same. 

[Mandy96]

There’s no such thing as karma, bad things happen to good people all the time, I knew a previous co worker of mine, sweetest woman ever, both her and her husband, their first child was born with leukemia and died at two years old..... what’s the kids karma ? he was innocent and didn’t deserve it what had he done wrong to get that ending ?

Good things happen to scummy people too, look at Casey Anthony, she neglects and accidentally gave her kid too much medication to put her to sleep while she went out to party it up, the kid dies, she pretends nothing happened for a MONTH and then when her parents had enough of her giving them lies about her daughter’s whereabouts the police was called, Casey proceeds to lead the officers on a wild goose chase that the nanny took her daughter and she has no clue where she’s at... there was so much evidence stacked against her from her car reeking of a dead body in the trunk to her not reporting a missing toddler for a MONTH and going about her life partying like nothing happened, guess what ??? Court found her.... NOT guilty, she’s free for killing her own daughter, where is her karma? 
 

I think when someone close to us dies it’s natural to reflect on what’s really important in our life, but karma ? No, truth is good and bad things happen to good people AND bad people, it’s just life, you can’t have it your way everytime for 80+years, it’s impossible and unrealistic. 
 

Enjoy the good times for what they were and let the rest go, you were with a married guy because you felt like it, no one forced you, same as me so no judgment there, step one is being honest, I do blame the married partner because am not the one that was married, but I also know that I didn’t need to fall in love with him, I could have ignored him, but for some of us some lessons you can’t read about, you have to go through yourself, not all affairs end badly, my own mom and dad got together from an affair, as soon as it turned physical my dad divorced his ex wife and my mom left her bf, you don’t always marry the right fit for you or date the right person, is trial and error, but they did the right thing and didn’t continue to cheat or worse stay married living a lie with their other partners. They’ve been together 29 years, been married for 28. Happy as heck, this was part of my belief of why maybe this affair partner of mine was in a similar situation, but nope, he was just talking badly about his marriage with his wife and too happy to cheat because he is in love with himself. Live and learn. 

[BaileyB]

I don’t believe in Karma as much as I believe in consequences. I think people often confuse the two.

When one makes a poor decision, there are many consequences for that decision. It doesn’t necessarily mean that this person is inherently a bad person or will have bad Karma forever... it means, that person will have some things to deal with that will feel negative for some time...

[central]

Karma?  No.  Consequences, or merely coincidence, yes.  Good things happen to bad people just as often as bad things happen to good people.  We tend to notice when bad things happen to bad people, or good things to good people, and say they deserve it - but it's usually chance or cause and effect.

[elaine567]

Sorry to hear about the death of your friend. Hugs. 

18 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

...choices I've made the past couple of years that got me where I am now. One of those was getting so emotionally wrapped up with a married man. I've grown so much as a person for the experience and I'll carry that into my other relationships. Still, giving so much of myself left me without the partner I want. Then, I thought... it's sort of an instant karma for those of us who get ourselves into these types of situations. There is a big cost even though we can't or won't see it at the time.

 I  guess you were somewhat vulnerable at the time you got involved with the MM.
So had you met some other unsuitable man, ie emotionally unavailable, incompatible, unstable, abusive... etc. etc. who equally messed up your life, would you then think you had encountered some instant karma?

 

[VD01]

Maybe there will be a karma or maybe not. Some OW women ended up being happily married to their MM (look at Camilla) 

But if there will be Karma for us, then there should also be Karma for the BS. 
 

I think the OW who deserves karma are those who ended up hurting the BS - knowing that the WS is gonna choose them or love them more. I have seen some OW who are not ashamed of being the OW and will even insult the BS for getting cheated on. 

[pepperbird2]

4 hours ago, BlindsidedTwice said:

My husband and I experienced pregnancy loss this past summer - a little over a year after the end of my A.

No matter how “common” miscarriage is, I will always think of it as karma/punishment for how I behaved. I chose to let my mind, heart, and body act in the most selfish of ways... and in return, my body failed me and my baby. My heart is still broken and my mind will never be the same. 

This is heartbreaking to read. For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like karma to me.

[BaileyB]

56 minutes ago, pepperbird2 said:

This is heartbreaking to read. For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like karma to me.

Agree. One in five pregnancies end in miscarriage, unfortunately you were the one out of five. But, it’s heartbreaking to read that you blame yourself and feel that it is karma... I don’t agree with either statement in any way. Hugs. 

[Watercolors]

Karma is a Sanskrit word that means “action.” Karma is about cause and effect. That’s all. It’s not about punishing or being punished because you made a mistake. That has warped people’s interpretation and understanding of what Karma means, and how they use it to explain the events in their life and their choices. Karma has zero to do with punishment and it irritates me how people intentionally misuse this word all the time to justify or explain their bad decisions or bad outcomes. Look, the only person responsible for your current life is YOU. 

OP, your situation has nothing to do with Karma. Your choice to have an affair with a married man has consequences. I’m sorry about your friend’s death but her death has nothing to do with Karma either. What a horrible thing to say about her after her passing.

My advice to you OP: If you don’t want to experience the pain of being the affair partner, stop getting involved with married men. Simple as that, really. Nothing to do with Karma. Everything to do with your poor choices for relationship partners, and your unwillingness to take responsibility for your choices. 

People love to blame their choices on ‘karma’ because they think it takes the onus off of them. Well sorry. You still made that poor choice, so you are still the only person responsible for the outcome of your poor choice. 

[Watercolors]

2 hours ago, central said:

Karma?  No.  Consequences, or merely coincidence, yes.  Good things happen to bad people just as often as bad things happen to good people.  We tend to notice when bad things happen to bad people, or good things to good people, and say they deserve it - but it's usually chance or cause and effect.

+1. Exactly. Consequences and coincidences only. Not Karma. Every decision made has a cause and effect, and an outcome. The outcome can be positive or negative. 

To say that I have bad karma, for example, as the reason I was once mugged in daylight, is asinine. I was mugged in daylight because i was mugged in daylight. It just happened. I don’t think I was being punished because some guy mugged me. 

Just like, you choose bad relationship partners, because you choose bad relationship partners. They aren’t forcing you to be with them. You’re choosing to be with these men who aren’t the right partners for you. That has to do with your choices, not with ‘karma’ as punishment. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Watercolors

[mark clemson]

Sorry to hear about the about your friend, and about the pregnancy loss as well. Life is short and sometimes way too short.

In an informal sense, I think sometimes people "get their karma" via things playing out in a way that appears (to some outsiders) to deliver "poetic justice" of one form or another.

However, as pointed out, those results are very inconsistent. So, IMO karma as it's commonly viewed only really makes sense in a context of believing in past lives/reincarnation etc. Else, just as much as it was your karma to have strong feelings for someone you couldn't have, it was his karma to have you and his BW in his life, and her karma to be cheated on etc, etc.

Camilla Bowles was mentioned - but what did Diana really do to a) become a princess/major celebrity in the first place,  b) be cheated on, and then c) die so abruptly the way she did. Karma would be completely inscrutable for a case like hers, and really similar and even crazier dramas play out all the time in the lives of people who are much less well known, etc.

[SMoore]

Karma is just the unfolding of the seeds you plant.  Just cause and effect.  Be mindful of your thoughts as they become words, be mindful of your words as they become actions, be mindful of your actions as they become habits, be mindful of your habits as they become character.  And your character will lead you to your future.

 It feels like I am paying for my thoughts and actions now.  On the face of it, now that it’s all over, my life is the same as it was a couple of years ago.  In reality, everything has changed.  My mind experiences things differently; it feels like a bombed out city, now the smoke is clearing.  I live with doubt, regret, anger, loss, empty meaning, restlessness, shame, low self-esteem.  I carry all this alone.  The price was too high and I had no conception of what was coming down the line.  But it was heading my way the second I stepped on the path that I took. That’s karma.

On a brighter note, I believe you can move forward from most things.  It starts with the right thoughts.  This is also karma.

[SS2855]

12 hours ago, Watercolors said:

. I’m sorry about your friend’s death but her death has nothing to do with Karma either. What a horrible thing to say about her after her passing.

@Watercolors I don’t think her intent at ALL was to say her friend’s death was due to karma and was “deserved” or payback for things she had done in her life. I read this post more as introspection on choices and consequences. I don’t even want to speculate of what this friend passed away from but from the statement I gather the cause may have been something impacted by life choices ( ex: smoking, drug or alcohol use, etc.) vs. an inference by @HadMeOverABarrel that the friend got ill because of bad decisions unrelated to health. While you make great points on the subject of Karma, this person’s friend just passed. Don’t think it’s appropriate to accuse her of something so distasteful when she’s very literally grieving right now. Again I don’t think that was her intent.

[Watercolors]

On 12/18/2020 at 4:34 PM, HadMeOverABarrel said:

I have been reflecting on her choices that led to her death,

You should be very careful the way you phrase things. This sentence makes you comes across extremely judgmental. 

26 minutes ago, SS2855 said:

Watercolors I don’t think her intent at ALL was to say her friend’s death was due to karma and was “deserved” or payback for things she had done in her life. I read this post more as introspection on choices and consequences

That’s how it comes across to me - that the OP is negatively judging her friend for choices that led to her death. 

[DKT3]

On 12/19/2020 at 12:15 AM, lifeoflies said:

Sorry to hear of your friend’s death. 
 

im not in agreement with your karma theory. You made a mistake. You don’t deserve to be punished although many here might not agree with me. You’ve learned from this mistake and you’re moving on. You should congratulate yourself.  Good luck. 

I disagree.  Its not necessarily punishment. If one doesn't commit crimes they don't go to jail. All actions have reactions.  I go to work i get paid. I plant crops I eat. 

Negative actions usually have negative reactions.  Those actions being a mistake is irrelevant. 

Besides there was no mistake. Making the same choice repeatedly is no mistake. It simply didn't work out as planned,  if it had would it still be viewed as a mistake?

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I'm just checking in to say thank you for the thoughtful responses. I felt icky and exhausted over the weekend. I'll be back to post when my energy is back up. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

21 hours ago, SS2855 said:

@Watercolors I don’t think her intent at ALL was to say her friend’s death was due to karma and was “deserved” or payback for things she had done in her life. I read this post more as introspection on choices and consequences. I don’t even want to speculate of what this friend passed away from but from the statement I gather the cause may have been something impacted by life choices ( ex: smoking, drug or alcohol use, etc.) vs. an inference by @HadMeOverABarrel that the friend got ill because of bad decisions unrelated to health. While you make great points on the subject of Karma, this person’s friend just passed. Don’t think it’s appropriate to accuse her of something so distasteful when she’s very literally grieving right now. Again I don’t think that was her intent.

@SS2855 nailed it!

@Watercolors Sorry Hun, you totally missed the mark. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

21 hours ago, Watercolors said:

This sentence makes you comes across extremely judgmental

This is your own psychological projection because it is you who is being judgmental, as well as callous and insensitive.

My friend made choices that medically led to her demise. Many people tried to help her, including myself, but ultimately only she could choose what she wanted for herself.

It is not judgmental to state a fact. Also saying I'm being judgmental about a very close friend of whom I'm actively grieving the loss is tone deaf and nonsensical. Frankly, I think you're being obnoxious and I don't currently have the patience to say it in a nicer way.

I feel sad, morose, shocked, etc. I am certainly not getting a perverse ego boost that would come from being judgmental. You are waaaaay out of line to suggest this; it's like I'm on earth with many good LS people, and you're someplace on Neptune or Pluto. 

[SS2855]

Sending you love and light @HadMeOverABarrel. When you’re grieving I have to imagine it’s also a time where one is most introspective. Perhaps this period in your life will be therapeutic in a way (of course screw therapeutic when you probably just want your friend back). But It may help to see there is impact, good and bad, for the choices we make. Yes so much out of our control, but I believe more is in our control. As you have always been one of the most insightful here on LS, let this help you sort through the whys. I’m only about a month post- exAP but I’m already healing (in large part to ppl like you with great advice) as I start to uncover why I thought an affair was enough, why playing second was better than nothing. It’s a weird peace I feel now. Sad for sure and questions a plenty, but digging in to why I got there has helped tremendously. Anyhow I hope this week is better and I know the holidays can make things worse. Thinking of you and sending big hugs and peace.

[notbroken]

We all 'reap what we sow'.   You were with a married man, which caused you to be 'taken' and not actively seeking new and better relationships.  You are now paying the price for that.   You can call that 'Karma' if you want and some would agree and some would disagree.   However, there is just no doubt about it.   You 'planted'  a relationship with a taken man.  It went bad like 99% of them do.  You 'reaped' heartache, no relationship, and everything that means at the end.   

All you can do is go forward.   "Plant" good relationships.  Don't chase unavailable men that are by definitions lying and unfaithful.  They don't make good partners long term.  Go forward with decent, honest, and faithful men.   Be that yourself.  You will then 'reap' the happiness that comes from good relationships instead of the pain that results from bad.