He's left his wife. but.

[LadyThor]

Some background info: My MM2 (36) and I (24) started working together in September of 2019. We're both teachers in the same dept so we worked quite closely. At first we were just colleagues - we'd chat occasionally on text but he's married and I was involved with MM1 at the time. The relationship with the MM1 ended terribly and he assaulted me earlier this year. During lockdown, our school was closed and I found myself texting with MM2 more and more. By May, we were meeting occasionally in parks to talk. By June, things were taking a much more intimate turn. During that month, he told his family his marriage was over - but not to tell his BS. At the end of that month, she found an email he sent me and he tried to break things off with her. But the next day he decided not to leave. We continued all summer - we'd go out for drinks and hook up in parks. We never spent the night together. In September, she found our messages. He denied everything and she made him send a message breaking things off. The next day he told me it was her and I said I had figured and we continued on. Two weeks later we met for his birthday and he said he was moving out. I told him I wasn't the one who needed to know that - and when we left the restaurant, she was there. It was D-Day. She handled it well but did tell me he had said awful things about me. He denied ever saying anything like that but she was pretty calm and I think she was telling the truth. He went home that night to pack up some things and move in with a friend. That idea ended terribly and he was back home the next day. For the next two months we would occasionally meet in a hotel. We've never spent the night together - I still live at home and my parents expect me to come back. He lived with her until the end of November when he finally moved out. He never really said he was moving out for me - and I'm not even sure he really wanted to move out. But she was so upset all the time and he couldn't take it anymore.

Since he's moved out we've spent some time together. It's really lovely being with him - he tells me all the time how wonderful I am and how much he loves me. My problem is I'm not sure if I can trust him. He told his family three times he had moved out - and he hadn't. The first weekend I went to his place, I went into his new room and found a blonde hair. I absolutely freaked out and went home. I blocked him on my phone but he was able to send a couple of emails explaining that it was probably his new roommate's (he's sharing a house with two women). I went back the next day and we spent the whole day together. He blocked his wife's phone number as well because someone kept calling. 

He has made no mention of divorce (aside from on D-Day). We often say to each other that this will need to end as there's no future because my parents wouldn't accept such an age difference. I'm not sure either of us wants it to end, though. Can I trust him? If he can lie to his family and his BS - do you think he's lying to me? He's so charming but he hates conflict. He says he's over her but I'm pretty sure he's still speaking to her regularly and spending time with her. They don't have kids so if he didn't want to, there's no reason to speak to her. Do you think there's any risk he'll go back to her?

[BaileyB]

43 minutes ago, LadyThor said:

It's really lovely being with him - he tells me all the time how wonderful I am and how much he loves me. My problem is I'm not sure if I can trust him. Can I trust him?

No. You can not, and should not, ever trust this man. He is married to another woman, and thus not able to make or keep any promises he makes to you. 

I can appreciate that the words he says to you sound like music to your ears, but seriously... what has he ever done that demonstrates to you that you can trust him? You need to attend to his actions, not his words. 

His actions tell you that he is lying to his wife and sleeping with you. That’s a problem. Furthermore, he told his family he was planning to leave but asked them not to tell his BS? Who does that? That says to me that he is not planning to leave. When discovered, he denied everything to her and told you that it was over - you didn’t believe him and continued on. He tried to move out and go to a friends, but returned home the next day. This guy is not leaving his family for you... he has chosen his wife and family, time and again... you need to accept that. 

Honey, you need to stop dating married men. There is no future in this for you and you are fooling yourself if you don’t understand this. You are hooking up in the park and having sex in hotel rooms, and then he goes home to his wife. These are not mature or responsible decisions.

You really need to require more from the men you date. But to do this, you need to value yourself more. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

Have you ever dated a man around your age who wasn't married?

Edited December 19, 2020 by stillafool

[mark clemson]

2 hours ago, LadyThor said:

 Can I trust him? If he can lie to his family and his BS - do you think he's lying to me? He's so charming but he hates conflict. He says he's over her but I'm pretty sure he's still speaking to her regularly and spending time with her. They don't have kids so if he didn't want to, there's no reason to speak to her. Do you think there's any risk he'll go back to her?

No I don't think you can trust him. Break ups have some psychological quirks associated with them and sometimes the cheater very sincerely chases the person they cheated on. Not always, but it's definitely not rare either. So he MAY well be trying to get her back.

[BaileyB]

The simple truth is, your happy ending will never be found with another woman’s husband. 

I too am very curious to know if you have ever had a relationship with a single man. 

[LadyThor]

Nothing serious and not since before MM1. The fallout from that was tremendous and I didn't mean to fall for MM2 but he knew I had been seeing MM1 and was very supportive. He's been unhappy for some time as well. He doesn't really like himself and confessed a lot to me because he felt his W had too much on her plate. But can't it end well now that he's left her? It's the right step, isn't it? He never looks at his phone when we're together. Sometimes I think it's because he wants to give me his full attention but other times I think he doesn't want me to know he's messaging her regularly. 

[LynneVicious]

What is the outcome you’re looking for? If it’s a relationship to have a future with, you’re absolutely not going to find it with married men. No. Nope. 
 

You could save a lot of heartache by going on the OW/OM board and just start reading. It’s not a coincidence that 99% of other women’s parting gift is a broken heart. Seriously, go read. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, LadyThor said:

The fallout from that was tremendous and I didn't mean to fall for MM2 but he knew I had been seeing MM1 and was very supportive. 

In other words, he knew you were ripe for the picking... unfortunately. He knew that relationship boundaries were not a barrier for you. He clearly took advantage of your youth and naivety.

Quote

He's been unhappy for some time as well. He doesn't really like himself and confessed a lot to me because he felt his W had too much on her plate.

We’ve heard this before, it was from the married man playbook... he has issues with self esteem, his wife won’t listen/he doesn’t want to bother her... but he will happily unload on you and play on your sympathy because he knows that will get you to have sex with him in the park. You are hysterically bonding with the man and he is planning your next sexual adventure - park, car, hotel, work! Read some stories on this forum, you will find many similarities. 

Quote

But can't it end well now that he's left her? It's the right step, isn't it? 

Wrong. He hasn’t left her, all evidence to the contrary. You are very naive to think that it’s the logical next step. Do they have children? Men with wives and children generally don’t leave their wives and children to be with their other women - they have history together, mortgages, family obligations, among other things... I hate to say this because it will sound harsh - a 36 years old is happy to have sex with a 24 year old in the park but he is not looking for another wife, because he already has one. He is looking for “more,” which you offered - no strings attached. That just doesn’t turn into a long term committed relationship, I’m sorry. 

Edited December 20, 2020 by BaileyB

[LadyThor]

37 minutes ago, LynneVicious said:

What is the outcome you’re looking for? If it’s a relationship to have a future with, you’re absolutely not going to find it with married men. No. Nope. 

He's told his sisters he loves me and he talks about forever a lot. If he's moved out I don't see why that's not a sign he means that we'll be together.

[stillafool]

Did he tell them he loves you or that he's in love with you?  Don't believe anything until he shows you divorce papers.  If you're 24 and been involved with 2 MM what age were you when you dated a single man in your age group?

[BaileyB]

5 hours ago, LadyThor said:

He lived with her until the end of November when he finally moved out. He never really said he was moving out for me - and I'm not even sure he really wanted to move out.

He moved out at the end of November - it’s been a few weeks. And, you say yourself that your not even sure that he really wanted to move out. He hasn’t even begun to real work of divorce... the chance that he will return home is still really high. He’s done it once before. He is by no means a “safe bet.” There are women on this board who have literally bought homes with their affair partners, only to have them return to their spouse. 

Does he have children?

Edited December 20, 2020 by BaileyB

[LadyThor]

38 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Did he tell them he loves you or that he's in love with you?  Don't believe anything until he shows you divorce papers.  If you're 24 and been involved with 2 MM what age were you when you dated a single man in your age group?

I don't know if he said "love" or "in love." I was 22.

[LadyThor]

9 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

He moved out at the end of November - it’s been a few weeks. And, you say yourself that your not even sure that he really wanted to move out. He hasn’t even begun to real work of divorce... the chance that he will return home is still really high. He’s done it once before. He is by no means a “safe bet.” There are women on this board who have literally bought homes with their affair partners, only to have them return to their spouse. 

Does he have children?

No kids - hence why I'm not sure what reason he has to keep talking to her. She's staying in their flat for another couple of months so he still has to finish packing up his stuff and fixing some things there - maybe that's why he's still talking to her? She needs to be married for her visa - but I'd think if he really didn't love her, he wouldn't care if her visa would be revoked when they divorce. He's not a very proactive guy - it's something I've tried to help him be better about. He gave notice at our school to leave this month but he didn't find anything else so we'll be working together at least a few more months. So maybe he wants the divorce and just isn't too fussed about getting a move on. 

[BaileyB]

You would be very wise to give him your number and tell him to call you, if and when he has signed divorce papers in his hands. What you have just written causes me even more concern, as these are not the decisions of a mature and responsible man. He needs to decide what he really wants and get his life in order (assuming, he decides to file for divorce and his wife is deported). 

[Narie]

If he can lie to you and his family then no. Who knows who's the owner of the blonde hair, why is it in his room? 

You may never knew, he probably lied to his wife while living far from her.

[LadyThor]

15 hours ago, Narie said:

If he can lie to you and his family then no. Who knows who's the owner of the blonde hair, why is it in his room? 

You may never knew, he probably lied to his wife while living far from her.

I'm not sure he has lied to me - do you think it's likely he has? I know he lies to her and to others but he always promised to give me 100%.

He said the blonde hair was from his roommate/landlady. I did get really upset - I know it's possible it could be other girls but he has sworn I'm the only one for him.

[BaileyB]

45 minutes ago, LadyThor said:

I'm not sure he has lied to me - do you think it's likely he has? I know he lies to her and to others but he always promised to give me 100%.

You have a friend who you know is a thief, but he promises you that he won’t steal from you - should you believe him? 

When you have the knowledge that he is capable of lying to his wife and sneaking around behind his back, how can you say with any confidence that he won’t do it to you? You’ve seen how he honors his commitments. You’ve seen how he values honesty, fidelity, and trust. Unlike his wife, you have this knowledge. The question becomes, are you going to listen to that little voice of doubt or ignore it? And, at what consequence...

Edited December 20, 2020 by BaileyB

[ExpatInItaly]

21 hours ago, LadyThor said:

 he knew I had been seeing MM1 and was very supportive. 

No wonder. He saw that you don't respect other people's marriages so he figured you were a great candidate for an affair with him. 

I don't mean to be harsh, but you would be very foolish to trust this man and assume that a future together is a realistic prospect. He lies very easily; you can be sure he lies to you when it suits him. He's fed you nearly every line in the Cheater Playbook and his wife was probably telling you the truth when she reported that he said nasty things about you. 

This man is not your Happily Every After, LadyThor. He will bounce when he's had his fill of you. You should take some time on your own and learn what healthy relationships and self-respect look like. Until you do, you will continue to involve yourself in messy situations that bring you nothing but grief. 

[MsJayne]

Yes, I think he'll go back to his wife. But he'll still keep using you and telling you what you want to hear because he figured out long ago how gullible you are and, just like his unfortunate wife, you will keep clinging on to the hope that this piece of filth actually has some feelings for you.  

MM1 - The relationship ended with him assaulting you.  What did you learn from that episode? 

MM2 - Is a lying, conniving sociopath who seeks out gullible, desperate, emotionally weak women to manipulate. You say his wife is always upset.  Do you think it might be because of the abuse he obviously subjects her to? Abuse which you are a part of, whether you mean to be or not. 

Have you considered some therapy to help you understand why you go for other women's husbands and are so willing to believe what are obvious lies?  Also, to understand why you are attracted to men of such low character?  You will never find happiness by interfering in other peoples relationships. There's lots of single men, (nice ones who don't treat women like poop), so why not find one of your own? Do you really want to end up being in the shoes of MM2's wife? 

[deepthinking]

24 You could do better than making out in the park with  an  mm. Like coffees or dinners or galleries and concerts with single men. 

Your Mother would not like him, another red flag.

Edited December 20, 2020 by deepthinking

[LadyThor]

I feel like everyone is being really hard on him. And us.

He's gone home for Christmas and he's just sent beautiful flowers to my house - he must have spent a fortune. If he didn't intend on a future with me why would he spend money on me all the time? He used to buy his wife flowers but she nagged him for them. He sent these to me and I didn't even have to ask. He's always doing things like this to make me happy. 

For couples that have made it - where the MM leave the BS and marries the OW - is their age difference a factor? Is it more plausible that two people closer in age will make it? 

[stillafool]

If you believe he's in love with you and wants to marry you then keep doing what you're doing.  Why do you need others opinion on this?

[BaileyB]

Aside from the lovely words he says to you, and the money he spends making romantic guest urges toward you... what is it specifically that attracts you to this man? What is it about him that makes you think he is going to make a lifelong partner for you? 

[lil_missy]

2 hours ago, LadyThor said:

I feel like everyone is being really hard on him. And us.

He's gone home for Christmas and he's just sent beautiful flowers to my house - he must have spent a fortune. If he didn't intend on a future with me why would he spend money on me all the time? He used to buy his wife flowers but she nagged him for them. He sent these to me and I didn't even have to ask. He's always doing things like this to make me happy. 

For couples that have made it - where the MM leave the BS and marries the OW - is their age difference a factor? Is it more plausible that two people closer in age will make it? 

Omg because your affair is still new and exciting for him so his sending you flowers. I'm sure he sent his wife lots of flowers when they were dating and bought her lots of nice gifts too. But then years down the track in a marriage this kinda behaviour stopped and yes a wife will often nag her husband to buy her flower. This is so normal. How can you compare the way he treats you with the way he treats his wife now? Its not comparable.  What is comparable is if you end up with him, give it a few years and he'll start treating you like he treats his wife now. 

[pepperbird2]

OP,

I know it's hard, but try and look at your situation objectively. Pretend it's a friend/sister you're giving advice to.

Say she came to you and laid out the same situation. What would you advise her to do? How would you interpret the actions of the MM she was involved with?

Along with that, ask yourself if you are making any allowances for hurtful behaviour from him because he's a MM? If you are, that's a bad sign. You have every right to set the conditions for what you will and will not accept.