The commitment phobic girlfriend

[dukoma79]

I'm gonna try and keep this short.

I met this girl a year back (both in early 30's), we started dating right away and we quickly fell in love, hard. We've been dating for the past year and the relationship was beyond perfect, and for my surprise, we have not had one single fight. And then on a bad-mood day, we hit our first argument. The reason for the fight was pointless, it's the lashing out that made a bit of damage. Then the dust settled and we talked it out and made up. Soon after (a couple of days) she brought out the fact that she has commitment issues, she told me she loves me to the end and she thinks that, for her, I'm the perfect boyfriend, but she wouldn't consider marrying me (at least not yet anyway) but she would be ready to date me for the rest of her life (ironic I know). I tried to maneuver around the subject attempting to figure why she is the way she is and I explained to her that although I partially understand where she's coming from, it is unfair to be all in for a person and suddenly, out of the blue, bring out a subject that might be a deal-breaker. She quickly began to wrap things up asking me to just wait and give her time and she regretted even mentioning the subject.

After long hours of my typical overthinking I came to the conclusion to give her the benefit of the doubt and stick around to see where this will go, all by giving her space, and not bringing up the subject. But here's the catch: she changed. Ever since that first fight and that discussion, she became distant, somewhat 'non-chalante'. You couldn't tell right away, but it's the little details in every good morning, good night, how are you, I love you message that makes you feel as if you're with someone else. Then comes the physical distance; we used to see each other every single day (I know that's not optimal, but heck, we enjoyed it!) then it seems that if 2 or 3 days pass without seeing each other, she wouldn't mind. All in all, this issue have been dragging for the past 2 weeks only, and I know it might be too soon to tell and that my overthinking is taking the best of me, but I learned that when something in my gut feels wrong, then it's wrong, and I should do something about it.

Thoughts? Should I wait a bit? is it normal for people to act funny for a few weeks and then bounce back to the way they were or is it time to pull the plug?

Note: No there's no other guy, no cheating, no recurrent fights, nothing. Just pure feeling of unattachment, lack of spark and a pinch of unhappiness. 

[Lance Mannion]

Do you know about the 180? These are techniques that help people to detach from relationships. Everything she is doing is part of the 180. Now sure, there could be some other explanation, but within the universe of explanations, purposeful detachment is possible and the evidence fits. You've declared some interest in marrying her in the future, she's staked out her position, maybe she doesn't want to ever bend toward your position and is not trying to detach.

This could be a crazy analysis, but the evidence fits it.

[dukoma79]

5 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

Do you know about the 180? These are techniques that help people to detach from relationships. Everything she is doing is part of the 180. Now sure, there could be some other explanation, but within the universe of explanations, purposeful detachment is possible and the evidence fits. You've declared some interest in marrying her in the future, she's staked out her position, maybe she doesn't want to ever bend toward your position and is not trying to detach.

This could be a crazy analysis, but the evidence fits it.

So your point is a person would follow the 180 to eventually let go of said relationship and move on.

[Lance Mannion]

18 minutes ago, dukoma79 said:

So your point is a person would follow the 180 to eventually let go of said relationship and move on.

Yeah, that's the point I'm making. Search for "Divorce and the 180" or "Infidelity and the 180" and read about the techniques advocated. It's a big list, you've only detailed a few behaviors, but they're on the list.

Maybe she's creating space so that she can think about your offer without you being in her mind all day. Then she will come back to you.

All I'm saying is that her behavior fits a detachment profile.

[elaine567]

52 minutes ago, dukoma79 said:

Soon after (a couple of days) she brought out the fact that she has commitment issues, she told me she loves me to the end and she thinks that, for her, I'm the perfect boyfriend, but she wouldn't consider marrying me (at least not yet anyway) but she would be ready to date me for the rest of her life (ironic I know).

She may or may not have commitment issues, but she has realised that there is no future here for her and that is usually a deal breaker. She is now I guess distancing herself in preparation for a break up.
Some have commitment issues in that they feel smothered and anxious whenever they get too close to anyone, some have commitment issues when they feel smothered and too close for comfort to someone they know they don't want long term.
Whatever the reason it is not good news for you.
I would not wait around too long.

Sometimes fights bring out a side of a person that is not acceptable to the other.
You were sailing along on cloud nine in this relationship, maybe she wasn't and the fight was the last straw...

[dukoma79]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Sometimes fights bring out a side of a person that is not acceptable to the other.
You were sailing along on cloud nine in this relationship, maybe she wasn't and the fight was the last straw...

Not precisely (and no I am not in denial😛). All throughout this year she was the one that thought that she loved me more than I loved her. She is most caring and loving and smothering. She's great with family and still is. And I even brought up the subject of a break-up and she was totally against it (I'm extremely calm when it comes to discussions). That's the weird thing.

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, dukoma79 said:

And I even brought up the subject of a break-up and she was totally against it

Her words say no but her recent actions say yes...

Edited December 22, 2020 by elaine567

[dukoma79]

15 minutes ago, Lance Mannion said:

 

Maybe she's creating space so that she can think about your offer without you being in her mind all day. Then she will come back to you.

I wasn't exactly offering anything. She just felt that it was close although I made it clear I have no intentions of going through marriage anytime soon.

[dukoma79]

Just now, elaine567 said:

Her words say no but her actions say yes...

You might be right. But I think that a break-up should always have a core reason behind it. And in our case it doesn't. And I fear that it's only my overthinking brain that's leading me to weird conclusions. Thanks for your replies btw.

[Yosemite]

1 hour ago, dukoma79 said:

The reason for the fight was pointless, it's the lashing out that made a bit of damage. Then the dust settled and we talked it out and made up. Soon after (a couple of days) she brought out the fact that she has commitment issues,

What was the argument about?

What do you mean by lashing out? Did you call her a b#### or some other name? What exactly happened?

It's probably the lashing out that ended it. If you're the one that lashed out, she could be scared of you or her image of you could be completely changed. If she's scared, it makes sense that she's doing a slow fade instead of  telling you straight up that it's over. She's scared of your reaction to the fact that she wants to break up.

There are some things that can't be undone or fixed with an apology...sounds like whatever happened during this fight is what killed the relationship.

[elaine567]

13 minutes ago, dukoma79 said:

I made it clear I have no intentions of going through marriage anytime soon.

Maybe paradoxically that was the deal breaker.
She is in her thirties why wait around with a guy who is not all in...
She may be scared of commitment but when you said it wasn't happening then that is a different proposition.
Whatever it is she sounds like she is withdrawing.
In view of your investment you need to try to find out where her head is at.
Space tends to generate more and more space. It gives those who are on the way out more space and gives those who are feeling neglected and sore even more time to feel neglected and sore. 
I am not a great believer in space.

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, dukoma79 said:

. The reason for the fight was pointless, it's the lashing out that made a bit of damage. 

Sorry to hear that. It seems you're downplaying the argument and the reasons for it too much.

Apparently, it's a game changer and she's backing slowly out of the relationship.

What was the argument about? What do you mean by "made a bit of damage"?

You need to reflect on what the argument was about or you won't have insight into why she's backing out.

[dukoma79]

18 minutes ago, Yosemite said:

What was the argument about?

What do you mean by lashing out? Did you call her a b#### or some other name? What exactly happened?
 

No not at all. No shaming or calling names.

10 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to hear that. It seems you're downplaying the argument and the reasons for it too much.

Apparently, it's a game changer and she's backing slowly out of the relationship.

What was the argument about? What do you mean by "made a bit of damage"?

You need to reflect on what the argument was about or you won't have insight into why she's backing out.

Yeah I made it seem like I'm downplaying the argument. In fact, it was seriously pointless. I was in a bad mood for the past couple of days before the fight (she wasn't the reason and she was supportive) and while discussing where to have dinner over the phone I was frustrated and told her I'm just going home, and when she threw a mean "Ok" I raised my voice "Seriously?" and she shouted a bit and then calmed down and we saw each other the next morning and made up. As I said, pointless and meaningless. Had to do with my overall mood is all.

Edited December 22, 2020 by dukoma79

[Wiseman2]

Just now, dukoma79 said:

. In fact, it was seriously pointless. I was in a bad mood for the past couple of days before the fight 

Again. It seems you are overlooking this nail in the coffin.

She most likely talked to her people about it.

They may have warned her that this mood and outburst of yours is a red flag.🚩

Relationships end. And they end when there's poor conflict resolution like this.

You may want to believe "it's nothing", but clearly given her change in attitude, it's something.

[d0nnivain]

You have been together about 1 year & this fight / discussion happened 2 weeks ago. 

For now simmer down & put your over thinking brain on pause.  It's the holidays in a pandemic.  Everybody is short tempered & stressed.  It's just the time of year.  There is all this general holiday pressure & visual reminders of the "perfect family".  For an admitted commitment phobe, it can be too much. 

You say you can tell she changed in the "little details."   I suspect much of that is your fear. 

You "started" this silly fight by being in a bad mood.  It may have scared her that you can turn on her.  While where to have dinner was trivial, you inadvertently touched a nerve.  You know the fight was caused by garbage in your life / on your mind.  Assume part of this was caused by similar outside forces in her life.   Do something reassuring for her -- get her a poinsettia, draw her a bath, offer to wrap presents (or so some other holiday chore she dreads).  Just do something sweet to reassure her by your actions that you care.   See where that gets you.

Give it a week or so into January to see if things go back to normal once the holidays pass. 

[Wiseman2]

2 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

 It may have scared her that you can turn on her.  

Agree. And yes, let the dust settle. Have you apologized for your end of things?

Unfortunately a dog who suddenly bites, gives people reason to pause.

I don't think you can fix this with flowers. You'll have to own it and apologize, not use "bad mood" excuses.

Keep in mind that displaced anger is a huge red flag 🚩.

[d0nnivain]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Keep in mind that displaced anger is a huge red flag 🚩.

True but as flawed humans we all sometimes snap at the people we love because they are there.  @dukoma79 snapped at his GF in frustration because he was in a bad mood.  It happens  & triggered a discussion about other stuff.  He didn't come home in a bad mood then attack her guns blazing spoiling for a fight.   So all in all I'd say small yellow caution flag here. 

[Miss Spider]

I am so weak at people who come on here and say things like “we were/are so in love” “Our chemistry/connection is so strong”  “our relationship is/was perfect with 0 problems” follow up with signs from the relationship/other person that completely contradict that. I am sorry to say, but you are only seeing one perspective. People don’t show everything. Not everyone is honest to themselves about how they feel, let alone you. I am really sorry to say this but she most likely she I st isn’t feeling this as much as you are. The most obvious  explanation is the most likely to be correct

Edited December 22, 2020 by Shortskirtslonglashes

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, dukoma79 said:

while discussing where to have dinner over the phone I was frustrated and told her I'm just going home, and when she threw a mean "Ok" I raised my voice "Seriously?" and she shouted a bit and then calmed down

Why is saying "Ok" seen as a mean response?

[d0nnivain]

8 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Why is saying "Ok" seen as a mean response?

Tone. 

[Caauug]

2 hours ago, dukoma79 said:

We've been dating for the past year and the relationship was beyond perfect, and for my surprise, we have not had one single fight.

This is a Red Flag.... Some people may not see it that way but it looks like someone just agrees with the other person and never takes a stand and maybe getting walked all over.

You sound like a nice guy..... Nice Guys finish last, this little saying has a lot of truth. It is hard for me to link here in LS, but Google a video on YouTube by

Jordan Peterson: Why Do Nice Guys Finish Last? (Must Watch)

The video touches on a points and I hope it will point you in the right direction. Also, if you do not argue, you forget how to, and are more likely to fight unfair or hurtful causing damage when it does come around.

2 hours ago, dukoma79 said:

After long hours of my typical overthinking I came to the conclusion to give her the benefit of the doubt and stick around to see where this will go, all by giving her space, and not bringing up the subject.

No you are not overthinking.... Space is good but not when couples fight, cause they overthink... Not addressing the subject, just gives it time to grow and it will fester to larger than the relationship can handle. Have you ever heard the phrase about never going to bed angry? Always make up before going to sleep....

2 hours ago, dukoma79 said:

she changed. Ever since that first fight and that discussion, she became distant, somewhat 'non-chalante'. You couldn't tell right away, but it's the little details in every good morning, good night, how are you, I love you message that makes you feel as if you're with someone else. Then comes the physical distance; we used to see each other every single day (I know that's not optimal, but heck, we enjoyed it!) then it seems that if 2 or 3 days pass without seeing each other, she wouldn't mind.

She is on her way out. She see's you as a "Nice Guy" and a nice guy is not exciting her enough. She knows it is better for her to dump you then for you to reject her..... Rejection really kills the self esteem, she will want to protect her self esteem. 

She will be using her time wisely, likely justifying to herself and her hive (friends) on why she must dump you, and than who she should use to replace you. By the time you find out you don't have a GF anymore, she will be over you and could have a replacement.

3 hours ago, dukoma79 said:

Note: No there's no other guy, no cheating, no recurrent fights, nothing. Just pure feeling of unattachment, lack of spark and a pinch of unhappiness. 

Not yet.... But there will be shortly. Remember most reasonable attractive women have a reasonable amount of men they can/have waiting in the wings for the next play in their life. In most cases, you can easily be replaced.

 

3 hours ago, dukoma79 said:

is it time to pull the plug?

She is showing you what she wants, or what she is going to do. Her words are just a smoke screen to confuse you. You can flip it back and give her the rejection by dumping her....

It's a crap time of the year and a crap year for this..... Good Luck, you are going to need it.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

I don't think you can fix this with flowers.

One rarely can fix anything serious with flowers, as flowers are basically a manipulation tool and whilst some women will play the game and take the bait and allow themselves to be pacified with a bunch of dying things, others see them for what they are, a trick...

[d0nnivain]

Flowers are not a manipulative trick.  There are a time honored way of apologizing or showing some effort.  It doesn't have to be flowers, it can be a plant, a poem, fresh baked cookies.  It's not about the thing.  It's about showing effort. 

[Versacehottie]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

True but as flawed humans we all sometimes snap at the people we love because they are there.  @dukoma79 snapped at his GF in frustration because he was in a bad mood.  It happens  & triggered a discussion about other stuff.  He didn't come home in a bad mood then attack her guns blazing spoiling for a fight.   So all in all I'd say small yellow caution flag here. 

I agree.  I think if the OP expects that he needs to be perfect and there is never fighting among couples, he looking for something that is really rare maybe even impossible.   If we take his word at what the fight was, it was relatively tame.  That said, people get freaked out normally over their first fight as a couple.  They reassess a lot.  They pull back.  Maybe OP, she is just mirroring what YOU give.  You said she was very loving, even I think you used the word smothering--maybe she doesn't want to invest that way anymore or at least for the time being.  Especially if you take bad moods out on her when you are in one.  

[mark clemson]

It's not that flowers are, in an of themselves, a manipulative tactic; it's the sincerity (or lack thereof) motivating the gift that determines "what it really means" IMO.

Edited December 22, 2020 by mark clemson