Feel lonlier with him in my life

[lifeoflies]

10 hours ago, Davina1 said:

This is the truth  . I’m doing well today. Think he is easing off now too by looks of it .  Very stilted odd email in exchanges .  
it will take time for me to be right again but I will get there 

What you are going through sounds like addiction. You’ll likely relapse and contact him but don’t get down on yourself. What that happens, come back and the nice people here will help you out. 
 

this man will try to regain control. Not because he really cares about you but because, lik you, he craves the high your attention gives him. The longer you are able to resist him, the better able you will be to move on. 

[Davina1]

Zona no my sil doesn't know about my affair but she knows about my difficulties with her brother. She knows how hard he is to live with and communicate with. 

Stret thsnk you for your comments . It's very hard to cut him off completely as we are friends for way longer than when we became AP. We should have remained as friends . However as we only email ( thankfully he insisted on that )  it's proving simpler to reduce contact . He won't phone me as we found out lol !! 

Lifeoflies yes I am addicted to the attention , I can see that .and he found me in a very vulnerable time in my life . But I have seen the light . And I know he loves his wife and enjoys being with her and I know I'm just a pastime no matter what he says now . 

 

I did good yesterday , kept off my phone . Have my email turned off . I have a challenge set with my best friend to reduce our screen time . , on New Year's Eve I was at over 8 hours and over half of that was staring and drafting emails to him . Stupid waste of my day .  Yesterday I came in less than 2 hours and it was chatting with my friends on WHATSAPP aposting here . enjoyed my day ,went for a flask of coffee. In the park social distanced with my work friend and watched a film with my adult daughter . I got this. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Davina1

[Wiseman2]

On 12/31/2020 at 1:56 PM, Davina1 said:

 I am a MW in a LDR with a MM . . My marriage is loveless but we get on reasonably well. 

Sorry this is happening. Two half relationships do not equal one whole relationship.

Unfortunately the issue is your marriage, not this affair.

You "feel lonelier", because neither situation is fulfilling.

You may think as a married (unavailable) person yourself  that another married (unavailable) person is a safe bet and a good match, but as you can see there are heartbreaking limitations to this.

[Davina1]

I have not posted now since Jan 2 .  I needed to think and to work on myself .We are still emailing. But it is  very very limited and really only because we were friends for a lot longer .  Emails have no real substance but then again they have not on his part for a while .  I have realised it is not for me . I cannot live like this .  I feel like a weight has been lifted from me . My best friend has been such a help to me . I thought once mid jan came he might suggest the phone call but has not .  I have not asked for one again and never will again.  And I don’t want one .

the only problem is We have not really discussed any of this . He doesn’t really seem to notice I have dropped off the face of the Earth .  Whether we do or not remains to be seen.  I do know 100 per cent now that I won’t meet him again.   
 

@Wiseman2Wiseman you are right these situations are heartbreaking.  I feel I am lucky to have come through this  and realise the situation for what it is . I suppose I have many red flags raised throughout the relationship but I excused them and New Year’s Eve for me was the tipping point . 
 

I am working very productively , it’s freeing to be not tied to the phone .  I am ashamed of how I let him dictate the nature and timings of our correspondence.  I am eating healthier and I have not drowned in any emotional binging .  I also am walking every single day and starting to really look forward to it . 
the times I wasted on phone checking is gone . I won’t lie I feel hurt and sad that I was not the priority he said I was . But I think I have risen above it .   
 

@lifeofliesyou said I probably suffer from addiction and I think you are right .  My mission is to work on me and I am hopeful I will get there . 

[misspalmy]

I’m having another affair with two my kids father. He’s so addicted it’s like he prays on me too.

 

they say the right things to butter us up. The sex is amazing why I fall back for him.

 

his wife took him back after two affairs both time I fell pregnant to him. I know he’s a lair and probably sleeping with his wife I don’t care I love him and want him.

 

 

[sandylee1]

On 24/01/2021 at 10:24 AM, Davina1 said:

He doesn’t really seem to notice I have dropped off the face of the Earth .  

This right here tells you everything you need to know.

You're so insignificant and don't make a difference to him one way or another. 

Cut the cord for good.

[Davina1]

I often come back and reread the good advice I got here .   I haven’t cut the cord as the friendship was an old one but it has definitely fizzled to a few occasional emails . We have some common people so it’s hard to break communication totally . It’s email only . 
 

The phone call didn’t happen until about March his idea not mine but he cut it short because he had to go put money in a parking meter ( I have to say I’m laughing now about that because as excuses go it’s definitely a first )

I actually believe in my heart now he came back in my life and love bombed me so he could have a bit of female attention to make him feel good .  He is now spending most of the time living with his female business partner and trips home to his wife for few weeks at a time . It’s all very bizarre .   Especially with the covid I’m unsure how he moves between the 2 without quarantine .  I have noticed that I get more emails when he is with his wife than with his business partner . Also I get a lot of love bombing on a weekend night when I suspect he is drinking. He drinks a lot with his wife at weekends.   He misses me a lot he says on such occurrences. 
 

I have learned to ignore it all and I’m concentrating on my own life and family .   

It’s not been easy really but I learned a lot of lessons and won’t ever go down that route again 

[BaileyB]

It sounds like he’s in a affair with the business partner. 

He’s given you a gift. Time to move on and find something better for yourself. Take care. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

I found this thread and thought you'd find it informative. I did. Actually it could apply to many situations on the OW/OM section of LS:

Do narcissists always return to former victims?

54 Answers

Asked in 2 Spaces

H G Tudor, Narcissistic Sociopath who writes extensively about this condition.

Answered September 5, 2016 · Upvoted by Sarah Santiago, MS Psychology & Forensic Psychology, Walden University (2012) and Michele Duffey, Pursuing Masters In Clinical Psych

Yes we do. There are two essential ingredients that govern this.

Have you triggered the potential for us to hoover you? This means that you have entered one of our spheres of influence. You may have telephoned us, or we saw you across the street or you just happened to pop in our mind; and

Are the conditions right for executing the hoover. This means can we contact you easily enough? Will we get fuel from you? What are you defences like? Are there any obstacles? What type of narcissist is considering hovering you? (We have different cognitive ability, differing levels of malice and energy)

I make repeated mention of how we always come back for more. This of course is the brilliance of the hoover. Some people struggle to comprehend that we will always keep returning for more fuel, if the opportunity arises. Why would we not? We love fuel. We love your fuel (after all that was why you were chosen as the primary source) and even better we love the hoover fuel which you provide. The hoover serves many functions. First and foremost, it provides us with fuel. It is also a means of exerting control, seeing how the land lies for potential further machinations, a means of preventing you moving forward, a means of hindering your understanding, a method of reinforcing our superiority, dominance and omnipotence. It serves these functions and many more. Hoovers take place throughout the dance with our kind, but most possible associate them with the aftermath, the period following escape or more likely discard. When we look at the hoover in such a scenario, when we come back for more, we do so for one of the following three reasons: -

http://1.To draw you back into the relationship again so that the whole narcissistic cycle can begin once more;

http://2.To hurt you. We don’t want the formal relationship again but we want to remind you of how worthless you are and thus we aim to hurt you through this form of hoover;

www.3.to draw some positive fuel (it may be a drop or it may be lashings of it) but we do not want the formal relationship to start again or indeed ever, but we know you provide delicious hoover fuel so we will keep coming back for more. We do not do enough to recommence the formal relationship but we certainly extract some fuel from you. It might be a text, it may be a telephone call or personal visit, but it is passing. It may only take a moment or an afternoon, but it is temporary and then having extracted the fuel we will withdraw again (only to appear at some later stage). The formal relationship does not begin again.

It is this third manoeuvre (which is a benign follow-up hoover) which often confuses people. You can understand hoovering to start the relationship again. You can understand lashing out at us and being nasty because hey, after all we are Grade A Bastards aren’t we? However, why make the effort to gain some fuel and then withdraw again? It may be because we have a reliable primary source in place but cannot resist a slurp of the hoover fuel. It may happen because circumstance makes it too good to resist. There are several factors but one of the chief factors is the role which you are allocated post escape/discard. The application of the benign follow-up hoover which does not seek the restoration of the formal relationship relies on you conforming to a particular role and the fuel which flows from it. There are many different roles which can be assigned to you at this point, but here are ten of them.

1.The Wish You Well

Whenever we hoover you, you ask with your well-known decency how we are faring, you ask about our progress workwise, our health and about all other matters. You do so with that goodness of heart and nature for which you as an empathic person is famed and whilst there is no torrent of raging emotion, your kindness and compassion still fuel us. You may well have largely moved on from us, but you are unable to sever all ties. You know not to go back but you cannot help but always want to hear that we are doing good and that you can accordingly wish us well.

2.The Optimist

This contact gives you hope that there might be a return to the golden period. You do not push it, since you know how this can cause us to react, but you are receptive to our advance, pleased, no delighted to hear from us and you engage with enthusiasm, trying to keep your pulsating heart under control. You see each time we “drop by” as the possibility that this time we sweep you in our arms and take you back once more. Each time you are disappointed but this does not dim your hope and optimism, perhaps next time will be the time?

3.The Guilty

You feel bad that the relationship did not work out and you blame yourself as much (if not more) than us for its demise. Your status as a love devotee means that you still believe that love will conquer all and you spend your time apologising for what you did that was wrong and that which you did not do right. Of course we do nothing to cause you to think any different, enjoying your self-flagellation which always rises to the surface whenever we get in touch.

4.The Navel Gazer

You are obsessed with understand who you are and regard your interaction as an integral part of that. You want our views and opinions on your introspection and use any contact from us as an opportunity to invite us to comment about you, no matter how brutal it might be. You believe that you are unable to establish who you truly are without understanding the nature of your relationship with us and each occasion that we reach out to your again provides you with an opportunity to engage for the purpose of finding these answers. Your reliance on us is both edifying and fuelling.

5.The Healer

You will not let go of the notion that we can be fixed and any interaction between us results in you resuming the mantle of being that healer, putting our interests ahead of your own with the inevitable fuel which arises from your compassionate and kind-hearted behaviour.

6.The Nymph

You hate us for what we did but the sex was oh so good and you cannot resist the lure of a late night text for some sexual interaction in the hope that it might lead to a tussle between the sheets again. You maintain that all you want is sexual gratification and adopting this stance is a form of payback for us, but your engaging with us through sexting and flirtation provides us with the hoover fuel that we want.

7.The Tourniquet

You are not a tourniquet but you need one. You cannot work out what has happened and every engagement is a fuel-filled questioning session as to why did we do what we did, why did we hurt you, why did we say those things, why did we mess around and such like. The pain remains raw and the fuel that flows from it is too good to resist.

8.The Old Reliable

You know you should ignore us but you cannot. Those messages we send are like a nagging itch and you need to scratch so badly. Of course we know this and we regard you as a reliable source of hoover fuel. All we need to do is send a message and you will respond in some form or another, you cannot help yourself.

9.The Contender

You want back in and you are going to prove to us how damn fine you are and what an a-hole we are for letting you go in the first place. You will tell us just how good you will be for us, what you will do and how we will never get anybody better than you as you do your utmost to convince us that you should come back into our arms. Even if we rebuff you, you will not give up because your desire to be our intimate partner is huge and so with it is the fuel that you provide.

10.The Burning Oil Well

Your flow of fuel just cannot be shut off. Red Adair would never be able to snuff out the flames and cap the oil well. You are angry, seething, furious at the way you have been treated and you hate us. You absolutely hate us. Each time we reach out to you, you seize the opportunity to vent your anger at us, insulting us, labelling us and going on like some crazed harpy. You think it will upset us but you don’t understand the nature of fuel and whilst we may argue back it is all done to keep this blazing fuel flowing.

You can read more about the triggers for hoovers and the circumstances in which they may happen and the reasons for that on my blog which has a wealth of information about how we behave and think. Knowing the Narcissist

Kay Morton, An Expert On Narcissism & Analyzing Human Behavior

Updated November 20, 2019

This is an interesting question and it truly depends on where you are in the narcissist’s mind. Also, your use of the word “return” is also very interesting. Let me address that first.

Even when a narcissist hoovers a former partner, they aren’t “returning” in the traditional sense of the word. They often have no intention of getting back into a relationship with you. They just want to see if you will still engage them in conversation or anything more. Typically, this happens because something happened to their primary source of narcissistic supply. When that happens, the narcissist will often reach out to old partners or prospects for comfort, familiarity and some semblance of security. To them, reaching out is akin to grabbing that old familiar blanket with holes in it. You don’t need that blanket or use that blanket except in those quiet moments when you are most fearful. At those points, it is soothing and comforting even though it has holes in it and is way too old. It is almost like a ship going down in the sea and everyone reaches for a life jacket to stay afloat. That is how the narcissist views that. They need that narcissistic supply to keep going and to avoid being lonely. SO the return isn’t really a return in the traditional sense. Also, note that if the person is calling you again, the “discard” wasn’t actually a discard in the traditional sense either! Most narcissists don’t TYPICALLY discard ANYTHING or ANYONE - they simply rearrange your position in their life. You move from primary source to secondary source to the minor leagues. It is almost like a baseball game rotation where they use a guy for a while and then ship him somewhere when he is no longer as productive as he once was. They don’t actually get RID of him, but they do get rid of him - if that makes sense! He no longer occupies the position he once had on the team and he is relegated to being out of sight - even though there are still ties. Most narcissist discards are very similar. They move you out of rotation, but often keep some hooks in you so they can still reach out here and there. I should note that this is not ALWAYS the case. Narcissists can and do reach a point where they are actually “done” and will NOT return. In those instances, their cycle is more of an “Idealize / Devalue / Replace” instead of “Idealize / Devalue / Discard / Hoover”. Also note that the “Replace” does NOT always mean replacing the relationship with a person! Narcissists can use other things, like a job, as a source of supply! Instead of getting into another relationship, some narcissists can and do replace the relationship with work or something else. You see this person quite a bit in the professional world. They are accomplished and put in extraordinarily long hours in their chosen field (workaholics), but they are single. (Not every single person is a narcissist, but this phenomenon is absolutely something you can observe in the professional world and you can see it in some people who are very accomplished, work extremely long hours and have no personal life at all. Their job has become their primary source of supply and they wrap themselves in it like their life depends on it.)

If you were a primary or strong secondary source of supply, the narcissist will usually return to hoover you at some point. If, however, the narcissist attempted to groom you in the past only to discover that you are not a good source of supply, he or she is unlikely to engage with you in the future. Narcissists are not stupid. They do like challenges, but they value security more than anything. If they know that pursuing you is an absolute waste of their time, they will pursue their soft targets.

So the answer to your question is narcissists do not always return to their former relationships. If the prior partner was a great source of narcissistic supply, the narcissist may hoover at some point in the future when his or her current situation starts heading south. If the prior partner was found NOT to be a good source, the narcissist will likely skip hoovering in favor of better, more compliant targets even though those targets may not always be new relationships. Remember, it is all about security with the narcissist.

James Walton, former Doctor

Answered March 17 · Upvoted by Abbie Brown, Doctor at Psychology (2008-present)

A narcissist will always return to an ex-lover to ensure that his narcissistic supply still pines for him and that she never moves on from the pain he has caused her. Referred to as the hoover (or, as I like to call it, The Hoovering, because, to me, it smacks of a scary movie!), this return is very deliberate and typically won’t occur until the narcissist has been gone just slightly longer than the time before. By timing these reappearances perfectly, the narcissist conditions his victim to not only expect him to come back but also to expect him to come back at a much later date, thus giving him more play time in the interim. All of this is part of the narcissist’s control/validate tactic which, in turn, is all a part of the process of managing down our expectations of the relationship so that we expect less and less and he gets away with more. It’s such a subtle conditioning that victims often don’t even know it’s happening…like a horror show coming soon whether you like it or not.

As you know, a hoover usually follows a silent treatment (which is really a break-up in disguise, by the way) and comes long after the victim has been completely devastated by the silence. The narcissist may hoover in several different ways and for various reasons, with each hoovering event staged according to that pathological relationship agenda that all narcissists live by.

For example, a narcissist may 1) come back full-on by simply showing up and expecting to pick up right where he left off without a single repercussion, OR 2) not quite ready to return but still wanting you to prepare for the possibility, he’ll begin hoovering with a sporadic text or an email or he’ll ring your phone (hanging up before you answer) from either his number or one he knows you’ll recognize and associate with him. With the second type of hoover, any attempts on your part to return the text, call, or email will likely go unanswered because the intention here is not to actually communicate with you but rather to warm you up to the situation…to get you feeling anxious, confused, and maybe even quietly excited about his possible return.

Whichever tactic he uses, the narcissist’s intention is to keep your mind spinning with “what-if’s” so that you never even get a chance to move on. Again, as part of his agenda, this manipulative behavior lays the groundwork for the next discard which, of course, will come faster (after his return) and with far more crippling intensity than all the discards before it. This agenda – which all victims of narcissist abuse are familiar with – is described in great detail in my book When Love Is a Lie. Nothing a narcissist ever does is random and that’s a fact.

For my narcissist ex, changing cell numbers before a return (and arming himself with a ridiculous excuse as to why he did it) became his preferred tactic for erasing his tracks. This tactic caused me a great deal of anxiety and sleepless nights and I even created a name it – The Cell Phone Game. It took many years to figure it out but I finally concluded that the timing of each number change and subsequent hoover was directly related to the condition of his relationships and the direction that he felt he had to run. Of course he never admitted to this, but I am confident to this day that my theory was spot-on. For 13-years, if he wanted to return, new numbers were not only part of the hoover with me but also a way to disappear from someone else. Like any good narcissist, he knew exactly how to do it and I’m sure you’ll find that it sounds familiar.

Anywhere from 2-weeks to 3-months after a deafening silence, the hoovering would begin. If my ex intended to return full-on, he’d simply text out-of-the-blue from his new cell number, asking to meet me for a drink (and, sadly, those were the only times he’d ever take me out). If he was just testing the waters and not quite ready for me to have his new number, he’d hoover by giving my phone just a single ring from odd numbers around town belonging to businesses and payphones – numbers that no one in the world except me would ever recognize on a Caller ID. In essence, he’d be counting on me to recall those numbers as the random numbers he used to call me from when we were together and he had no phone at all! And he was right… I always recognized them and felt instant anxiety. Again, nothing a narcissist does is ever random. Everything is a strategy. With my ex, I’m sure that the odd locations from where he’d call me when he had no phone (while we were together) became a way to set the the stage for future hoovering when he didn’t want me to know his new number. And I’m sure that his nonchalant disinterest in taking me out during the good times had much to do with his planning for future hoovers where just a single text (out-of-the-blue) requesting a “date” was all that was needed to grab my attention. Sound far-fetched...or does it sound familiar?

If you remember nothing else from this article, remember this: a narcissist only hoovers and/or returns to ensure that you never move on from the pain he has caused you. No matter what he tells you, this is the only reason. A narcissist’s intention, after all, is to always keep you in the queue, ready and waiting alongside all the others (and there are always others). Hoovers are stuffed with lies and future-fakery and downright bullshit. It’s a sick game of cat and mouse that will steal years from your life if you allow it. At some point we have to simply say “That’s enough” and refuse to be there when the narcissist returns.

No Contact is the key to escaping The Hoovering and the narcissist’s life-long plan for you. It’s also the only opportunity you’ll ever have for breaking the codependency to hope that the narcissist counts on you to cling to while he’s gone. Remember, the narcissist is never worried about what you’re doing while he’s gone or that you’ve found a better love because he’s conditioned you to wait for him…to wait for the hoover.

It’s time to ignore the subtle signs of hoovering and get on with your life. No one has a right to manipulate our emotions and it should never be acceptable to any of us. By enabling the narcissist’s behaviors, we set ourselves up to fail each and every time and we deserve better. Say “no more” and mean it! Remain committed to No Contact and to creating your happiness. I, for one, know you can do it!

[Davina1]

@HadMeOverABarrel thanks for that . I did plough through it over a couple of readings and it’s actually scary how much of it relates to him and me . 
 

I’m done now with him and I know no contact is probably for the best but it’s hard with common people .  

[S2B]

No, it’s not hard. You simply don’t ever reply to him again.

reply to people you want to have a relationship with - but never reply to him.

this is a matter of taking care of YOUR best interest. You are doing yourself a favor by elimination communication with him.

he is only in it for an ego feed/he will use you if you allow it.

[Stupidkupid]

8 hours ago, S2B said:

No, it’s not hard. You simply don’t ever reply to him again.

reply to people you want to have a relationship with - but never reply to him.

this is a matter of taking care of YOUR best interest. You are doing yourself a favor by elimination communication with him.

he is only in it for an ego feed/he will use you if you allow it.

@Davina1 read this over and over and over again. It's really not healthy to leave the door open in any way.

[Davina1]

You are correct both of you . And it’s an ego feed for him for sure . I’m too old for this anyway.  I’m lucky to have a lovely family and life so that’s where my energies are going now 

[S2B]

Simply do NOT respond when he sends an email that took no effort to send.

it’s his way of making sure you are paying attention to him!

It is in NO way designed to give you power or the love you deserve.

spend the energy focused only on people that truly care about you... and show action that backs that up.

 

he’s a user and a manipulator. Plain and simple. No response sends a clear message. Be done with him.

iF you see him socially - be pleasant but distant - you do not need to answer ANY questions that give him any of YOUR personal info.

even a question like “how are you?” Is designed to get you to feel close to him... AND vulnerable to opening up communications again.

so the correct answer in a social situation like that is “good!” 
and that’s it. Nothing more, nothing less. 
 

and don’t ask HIM how he is! You already know he is gonna manipulate you if you allow it - so say NOTHING personal.

best way is “Good”... excuse me - I need to get a drink. Have a good time. Bye.