Is my wife having an affair?

[trident_2020]

14 hours ago, Justanaverageguy said:

Seek and you will find. If you go looking for it your going to cause it to manifest.

 

14 hours ago, Justanaverageguy said:

speak to wife directly. Set ground rules on your relationship she won't. Insecurity - creates infidelity. Confidence creates fidelity. 

What a bunch of baloney.

Edited January 8, 2021 by trident_2020

[usa1ah]

6 hours ago, mark clemson said:

 

That's a bit like saying divorce has "nothing to do with" the partner being left. Sometimes it's mostly true.

Of course, in a cheating situation, sometimes the WS wasn't happy and that was ONE major driver of the decision to cheat. At a high level, an unhappy spouse has four main options: do nothing, work on the marriage, cheat, divorce.

Sure, the WS could have chosen a different path. But there's no doubt in many of those cases the BS had a LOT to do with their being unhappy in the first place.

The relationship takes work from both people in it. They make it good, bad or ugly. There are also times when just one person in the relationship doesn’t do anything for it. 
 

Cheating is a choice by the cheater alone. The betrayed spouse has nothing to do with it. There are so many stories on here and other sites where the WS says it had nothing to do with the BS. The cheater just doesn’t know why they did it.
 

There are also stories where the cheater just ups and leaves to be with the affair partner. The betrayed spouse is blindsided by it because they didn’t know anything was wrong. So many BS’s start the first post with “I never thought I would be here!” Or “We have our ups and downs just like everyone else but we always work through it together.”

 

The choice to cheat is on the cheater. 
 

The relationship is on both of them. 

[oldtruck]

hide cameras and VARs in your house.

 

you will find out the truth. 

[trident_2020]

^Clearly you didn't read the thread.

 

[Justanaverageguy]

20 hours ago, usa1ah said:

This is so not true. 
 

There are hundreds of post on here where the BS had confidence and was not insecure. 

Cheating has nothing to do with the BS. 

People cheat because they are selfish and lack morals. 

I told you it would be an unconventional response. I expected your response that cheaters cheat because the are immoral. This is the stock standard response. But in long term relationships were people habe been faithful for years I personally find this often just doesn't line up. You get some.immoral people who woll cheat no matter what but in mosr cases People cheat because the dynamics and power balance within the existing relationship is broken.

[mark clemson]

22 hours ago, usa1ah said:

Cheating is a choice by the cheater alone. The betrayed spouse has nothing to do with it.

The relationship is on both of them. 

You concede (of course) that the state of relationship has a LOT to do with BOTH partners.

But you're also trying to detach the decision from the context in which it occurs.

The state of the relationship and how the WS feels towards and thinks about the BS have a LOT to do with WHATEVER decisions get made by the WS. Be they decisions to work on the marriage, stay put, divorce - or cheat. And the BS always has SOME responsibility for the state of the relationship.

Cheating is a choice by the cheater alone. True. The betrayed spouse has nothing to do with it. False.

Edited January 10, 2021 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed analogy involving recent political events.

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, Justanaverageguy said:

I told you it would be an unconventional response. I expected your response that cheaters cheat because the are immoral. This is the stock standard response. But in long term relationships were people habe been faithful for years I personally find this often just doesn't line up. You get some.immoral people who woll cheat no matter what but in mosr cases People cheat because the dynamics and power balance within the existing relationship is broken.

It is squarely on the cheater’s shoulders still. 
 

Problems in a relationship are on both people in it. Unless one of them doesn’t bring up the issues to talk them out. If one partner has a problem and refuses to tell the other then it is their own fault, the unknowing one isn’t a mind reader. 
 

The cheater makes a willful decision to cheat. Whether they have talked with the other partner or not about the issues in the relationship. They still made the choice on their own to cheat. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by usa1ah

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

You concede (of course) that the state of relationship has a LOT to do with BOTH partners.

But you're also trying to detach the decision from the context in which it occurs. This is like trying to claim President Trump had "nothing to do with" what happened last Wednesday. He didn't ask for an insurrection attempt, but no one in their right mind would think he had NOTHING to do with it either.

The state of the relationship and how the WS feels towards and thinks about the BS have a LOT to do with WHATEVER decisions get made by the WS. Be they decisions to work on the marriage, stay put, divorce - or cheat. And the BS always has SOME responsibility for the state of the relationship.

Cheating is a choice by the cheater alone. True. The betrayed spouse has nothing to do with it. False.

Unless the one with the issues never talks with the other in the relationship. Things can’t be solved if the one that is unhappy talks with the other partner. 
 

How many times have we read on here “he/she said that they have been unhappy for a long time, I never knew. If only they came to me we could have tried to fix it.” Or something very close to that. If the partner that isn’t happy about the relationship never communicates this, what is the other partner to do? 
 

If both parties in the relationship are in happy then it is on both of them if they are not communicating. 
 

Communication is key. 
 

Cheating still falls on the one that cheats. They make the choice to step out side the marriage. 

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

You concede (of course) that the state of relationship has a LOT to do with BOTH partners.

But you're also trying to detach the decision from the context in which it occurs. This is like trying to claim President Trump had "nothing to do with" what happened last Wednesday. He didn't ask for an insurrection attempt, but no one in their right mind would think he had NOTHING to do with it either.

The state of the relationship and how the WS feels towards and thinks about the BS have a LOT to do with WHATEVER decisions get made by the WS. Be they decisions to work on the marriage, stay put, divorce - or cheat. And the BS always has SOME responsibility for the state of the relationship.

Cheating is a choice by the cheater alone. True. The betrayed spouse has nothing to do with it. False.

As for the discussion with the context of the relationship. Then explain why WS that cheat after 10 years, that actually want to stay in the marriage, beg and pled to save it? They are willing to do anything to save it. If they are so unhappy with the betrayed spouse, why try to save the relationship? This is were your argument falls apart, these people didn’t cheat because they were unhappy in the relationship. They cheated because they allowed someone else into their life. A friendship that went to far. Someone with charisma that talked their way into the partner’s bed. Drunken one night stand. They let their guard down and did something they never thought they would do. None of this has anything to do with their partner. 
 

[usa1ah]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Cheating is a choice by the cheater alone. True. The betrayed spouse has nothing to do with it. False.

You can’t have it both ways. You are right that the choice to cheat is on the cheater alone. 

[IslandSanctuary]

Everyone is different, but I'd be very uncomfortable with this, and so would my partner. Their relationship is very close and I wouldn't put up with it. I wouldn't marry someone in the first place without first discussing opposite sex friendships, it's definitely a discussion you are going to have at some point. 

Talk to her about how you feel - I mean you are married. If she makes you feel at all silly or accuses you of being insecure then that is really s*** on her part. Go out and meet a female to be close friends with, bring her home for showers and tell your wife to get f***ed. Beyond that there isn't much you can do, if she thinks this is acceptable behaviour then she just isn't marriage material, affair or not. 

[mark clemson]

5 hours ago, usa1ah said:

 If they are so unhappy with the betrayed spouse, why try to save the relationship? This is were your argument falls apart, these people didn’t cheat because they were unhappy in the relationship.

Hmmm. A) Since it only applies to a subset of cases, it's where YOUR argument falls apart since you were trying to make a blanket statement.

B) Even when they DO want to stay, that doesn't necessarily mean they were happy OR that the BS had nothing to do with why they were unhappy. They might be unhappy but want to stay married for other reasons. They might have been unhappy, they might have been happy but not respected the BS enough not to cheat, or care about the kids, or the financial aspects, or not want to be alone, etc, etc.

I don't disagree with you that responsibility for the decision falls on the WS. But you're trying to claim the BS has "nothing to do with" the state of their relationship. The BS still has something to do with their decision to cheat.

C) You also say communication is key. I agree and that SHOULD always be a first recourse. However, communication doesn't always work, BS's aren't always interested in working on the marriage, and divorce isn't always something the WS can stomach (one possible reason they may be "desperate" to reconcile, although I actually think it usually has more to do with some quirk of brain chemistry. Also in some places a divorce must be agreed to without a substantial cause for courts to accept it (although I concede that's rare these days.)

Say the WS is a workaholic who ignores the BS, the WS tries to get them to address this and is rebuffed. Communication didn't work. They want to stay in the marriage due to the impact of divorce on their kids, the BS threatens to "make their life hell" if they try to divorce. You would say the BS has nothing to do with the decision to cheat? No, they have a lot to do with it, because the marriage sucks, they won't work on it, and divorce appears untenable. In fact they have something to do with it just due to the fact that the marriage sucks.

4 hours ago, usa1ah said:

You can’t have it both ways. You are right that the choice to cheat is on the cheater alone. 

Since you're trying to absolve a spouse of any responsibility for the state of their marriage ("nothing to do with"), then by your logic, a normal, non-betrayed spouse has "nothing to do with" the fact that their spouse is happy and non-wayward. You can't have that both ways.

Edited January 9, 2021 by mark clemson

[Uruktopi]

On 1/3/2021 at 8:24 AM, Wiseman2 said:

While you can't change whatever flattering rapport they have, you can change what goes on in your own home.

 

Agree. 

And he can change to whom his till-now-wife is married, about what happens also outside his home but still inside his life. 

[usa1ah]

1 hour ago, mark clemson said:

6 hours ago, usa1ah said:

 

Since you're trying to absolve a spouse of any responsibility for the state of their marriage ("nothing to do with"), then by your logic, a normal, non-betrayed spouse has "nothing to do with" the fact that their spouse is happy and non-wayward. You can't have that both ways.

This isn’t what I said. 

[usa1ah]

7 hours ago, IslandSanctuary said:

Everyone is different, but I'd be very uncomfortable with this, and so would my partner. Their relationship is very close and I wouldn't put up with it. I wouldn't marry someone in the first place without first discussing opposite sex friendships, it's definitely a discussion you are going to have at some point. 

Talk to her about how you feel - I mean you are married. If she makes you feel at all silly or accuses you of being insecure then that is really s*** on her part. Go out and meet a female to be close friends with, bring her home for showers and tell your wife to get f***ed. Beyond that there isn't much you can do, if she thinks this is acceptable behaviour then she just isn't marriage material, affair or not. 

He already talked with her and she called him insecure. 

[mark clemson]

On 1/9/2021 at 4:40 PM, usa1ah said:

This isn’t what I said. 

Well, if you're trying to claim that a BS has "nothing to do with" the negative outcome of cheating in their marriage, then it actually IS what you're saying, since by the exact same logic they would have "nothing to do with" the positive outcome of a happy marriage and/or one without cheating.

Degree of "to do with" of course varies depending on specifics. But cheating always has something to do with the state of the marriage and how the WS feels about and thinks about the BS. It might not always be a lot to do with it, but it won't be nothing. And as you know and concede the BS will have some impact on the state of their marriage and I would add, I think extremely reasonably, some impact, possibly a lot of impact on how the WS feels about and regards them.

All that said, if you want to say that cheating isn't the BS' fault (in at least the sense that they never directly caused it, and OFTEN in much more than that minimal sense) and that the decision to cheat rather than take other action rests on the WS, not the BS - well, THOSE things I totally agree with.

[Wiseman2]

On 1/9/2021 at 10:55 AM, Justanaverageguy said:

 People cheat because the dynamics and power balance within the existing relationship is broken.

I disagree with this statement. If dynamics and power are unbalanced people have the options to work it out, consult a marriage therapist or divorce. Cheating is called cheating because it seeks to deceive and betray.

Edited January 11, 2021 by Wiseman2

[Stret]

On 1/9/2021 at 10:00 PM, IslandSanctuary said:

Everyone is different, but I'd be very uncomfortable with this, and so would my partner. Their relationship is very close and I wouldn't put up with it. I wouldn't marry someone in the first place without first discussing opposite sex friendships, it's definitely a discussion you are going to have at some point. 

Talk to her about how you feel - I mean you are married. If she makes you feel at all silly or accuses you of being insecure then that is really s*** on her part. Go out and meet a female to be close friends with, bring her home for showers and tell your wife to get f***ed. Beyond that there isn't much you can do, if she thinks this is acceptable behaviour then she just isn't marriage material, affair or not. 

This (regardless of the tone). 

I would never be comfortable accepting a gift like high heel shoes... he's obviously sexualising their relationship and she likes it. At the very least, there is a sexual chemistry between them and she is using your naivety to keep it up. 

OP, if you want to have a healthy marriage you have to be able to tell her exactly how you feel and she has to hear you and acknowledge your feelings, and do everything she can to make you stop feeling like that. She has to be your friend and wife first and only then his employee. If you don't have this with her, then you two are really not that close at all and no wonder she is seeking thrill from someone who is different than you. 

BTW, my marriage failed because he was like you - keeping it all in, never having difficult conversations, being always in "anything you want, dear" mood... He had no personality of his own and no passion which turned me off after 7 years as it became boring. We never fought, I initiated all our activities and he was just waiting for me to tell him what we'll do. I got really tired of it and fell out of love. Avoiding conflicts will ruin your marriage eventually. Put your foot down, get angry for being treated like that by both of them, and have honest conversation with her without much calculations. Just tell her everything and show some passion for the love of God

Edited January 11, 2021 by Stret

[usa1ah]

11 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Well, if you're trying to claim that a BS has "nothing to do with" the negative outcome of cheating in their marriage, then it actually IS what you're saying, since by the exact same logic they would have "nothing to do with" the positive outcome of a happy marriage and/or one without cheating.

Degree of "to do with" of course varies depending on specifics. But cheating always has something to do with the state of the marriage and how the WS feels about and thinks about the BS. It might not always be a lot to do with it, but it won't be nothing. And as you know and concede the BS will have some impact on the state of their marriage and I would add, I think extremely reasonably, some impact, possibly a lot of impact on how the WS feels about and regards them.

All that said, if you want to say that cheating isn't the BS' fault (in at least the sense that they never directly caused it, and OFTEN in much more than that minimal sense) and that the decision to cheat rather than take other action rests on the WS, not the BS - well, THOSE things I totally agree with.

You do understand we will never agree, right?

Blame who ever you damn please for cheating except the cheater for all I care about your opinion. 
 

just give them the excuse they want so they can throw it in the BS face that they cheated.

Talk about beating a dead horse. 

[HappilyMarried]

On 1/6/2021 at 6:17 PM, Runnytoast said:

She actually does but would that really be relevant?

Any updates it's been 2 weeks since you have updated anything.

[merrmeade]

Hi Runny. Sorry to see you here. 

No question about it. The boss's behavior is out of line. People like that don't change their behavior toward the opposite sex after marriage. They get better at flirting and hiding it. They continue objectifying the opposite sex and attempting to score attention and power if not actual sex. They may not always consummate the connection but doesn't matter. It's all about conquest. In a gathering, they scope the landscape of potential partners, making eye contact, complimenting, teasing, finding ways to ingratiate themselves and to touch. These people are always on the make to some degree. At gatherings, they recognize each other. They make innuendos and quickly move to personal remarks that flatter or create a vague sense of intimacy. So that's the general predatory behavior with sexual overtones. These people didn't get the right talks from their parents or older siblings. They're all about one-upmanship and being skillful at pushing buttons to get attention.

.I'll just give an example. I saw this tendency in my husband but just didn't realize the full psychological impulse behind it until I discovered he'd had affairs. It took a few years, but I understand it now, but I remember realizing how much more knowledgeable my daughter, then in her 20's, was than I. A few weeks after we told her and her brothers about their father's affair with their aunt. we were eating out and my husband complimented our waitress's earrings. My daughter scolded him up one side and down the other, explaining in minute detail why you don't do that, what it conveys, how it disrespects (me). Over time, I understood how he and my SIL had progressed from the same kind of interaction you describe to something more. They tried to keep it within boundaries, but none of it was. I blame him for already being like that. 

So you need to stop tiptoeing around this thing and call it what it is, OP. You actually identified and correctly named what made you uncomfortable right away. You don't have to apologize for it and you certainly don't have to play their game of pretending they've done nothing wrong. They're flaunting a connection that they enjoy. The fun banter, familiarity and "friendship' is exciting. It can and does build sexual tension and lead to physical 

 

[merrmeade]

1 minute ago, merrmeade said:

Hi Runny. Sorry to see you here. 

No question about it. The boss's behavior is out of line. People like that don't change their behavior toward the opposite sex after marriage. They get better at flirting and hiding it. They continue objectifying the opposite sex and attempting to score attention and power if not actual sex. They may not always consummate the connection but doesn't matter. It's all about conquest. In a gathering, they scope the landscape of potential partners, making eye contact, complimenting, teasing, finding ways to ingratiate themselves and to touch. These people are always on the make to some degree. At gatherings, they recognize each other. They make innuendos and quickly move to personal remarks that flatter or create a vague sense of intimacy. So that's the general predatory behavior with sexual overtones. These people didn't get the right talks from their parents or older siblings. They're all about one-upmanship and being skillful at pushing buttons to get attention.

.I'll just give an example. I saw this tendency in my husband but just didn't realize the full psychological impulse behind it until I discovered he'd had affairs. It took a few years, but I understand it now, but I remember realizing how much more knowledgeable my daughter, then in her 20's, was than I. A few weeks after we told her and her brothers about their father's affair with their aunt. we were eating out and my husband complimented our waitress's earrings. My daughter scolded him up one side and down the other, explaining in minute detail why you don't do that, what it conveys, how it disrespects (me). Over time, I understood how he and my SIL had progressed from the same kind of interaction you describe to something more. They tried to keep it within boundaries, but none of it was. I blame him for already being like that. 

So you need to stop tiptoeing around this thing and call it what it is, OP. You actually identified and correctly named what made you uncomfortable right away. You don't have to apologize for it and you certainly don't have to play their game of pretending they've done nothing wrong. They're flaunting a connection that they enjoy. The fun banter, familiarity and "friendship' is exciting. It can and does build sexual tension and lead to physical expression.

I think you should get over the qualms about the camera. Do it and see. If there's something there, you need to blow it up quickly anyway. If it's just more of what you've already seen, you don't have to mention it. You can tell her all of the plenty of reasons shy he's out of bounds.

 

 

[Buffer]

I don’t like the brother-sister relationship classic cheaters line. 
VAR and if he makes a comment I am a lucky man. Shut that down ASAP regardless what wife says.sound like a EA at the minimum. Further research is required.

one day at a time 

Buffer