Stuck - Need to vent - Separated for almost 2 years now.

[ZiggyZaggy]

Quick background: Hubby and I married 16+ years, have 2 teens, had a basically ideal marriage. Over the years, we had a couple of recurring issues that basically cannot be resolved. Minor issues become major issues. Anyone who knew us thought we seemed like an ideal couple, but then there's the stuff you don't talk about with anyone else, but it eats away at the foundations of the marriage, until one day you wake up and realize that the whole thing has crumbled. Together, we met with a couple of different marriage counselors, which didn't help. Then we started seeing our own private therapists and the first thing I said to mine was, "I don't want to be married anymore."

Soon after that, our relationship crumbled very quickly, fighting, sleepless nights, and talking about who was going to move out first. I don't want to go into detail here about the "why" of it all, but just to say that the irreconcilable differences became extremely prominent, and I moved out.

I now have "Leaver's Guilt" which is much more of a real thing than I ever would have imagined.  At first, it felt like a huge relief to have left the anger and angst. I actually thought that it was likely we'd reconcile and keep working on the marriage, but it quickly became clear that we have other differences as well.

Communication and interpretation of communication is a big issue.

When we had a conversation where I felt good and thought "wow, we can do this, we can work through this and still be on good terms" he responded to the same conversation with aversion, anger, frustration, and confusion.

When we had a conversation where I felt horrible and didn't think we'd ever be able to work through it, he responded to the same conversation by telling me that he felt closer to me and would then push to interact more (while I was then trying to create distance).

Basically we seem to be working in opposite realms.  

Because we have teens who are moving back and forth every week (I feel Leaver's Guilt about this too!), it would be great to maintain a friendly speaking terms relationship. But like above, when I try to make this happen by suggesting we get together to just touch base, talk about whatever's important, he backs away, and when he tries to initiate things, it often feels uncomfortable for me, so we're at a bit of a stalemate.

I now wake up every morning feeling very unsettled. We don't communicate well, or at all, yet we share these two beautiful kids who are spiraling into their own worlds of teen-angst.  Hubby and I are trying to move on with our lives, but we're still "stuck" in the quagmire of marriage.

Ha - why haven't we divorced yet? Mostly because it's easier to raise kids while married and because of large financial incentives to stay married. We've talked about waiting to divorce until after both kids are 18, but at this point that seems infinitely far away!

People keep asking me "What do you want?"

I want to be able to move on with my life. I want to feel financially secure (I was a full time homemaker, so still rely on hubbys income). I want to be mentally and physically healthy (strain of feeling unsettled is very emotionally draining). I want to have a healthy relationship with Hubby. I don't hate him, I just don't think we can live together anymore.  I want what's best for my kids. I want what's best for me. I don't want to feel guilty about hurting hubby's feelings anymore. (everyone tells me I shouldn't feel guilty, but I do!). I want to go back to the way things were. Erase the last 2.5 years of my life and pretend it didn't exist. We could keep living our marriage with the issues swept under the proverbial rug, but once they came out, we couldn't deal with it.  I know this is unrealistic. We can't go back. We can't take back all the hurtful things that were said. We now know each others true truths, and that can't be ignored.

I am seriously starting to question my own sanity at this point. Like, what the Hell am I doing here, and why are we never on the same page???  I think I am generally a very sane person, so this is unsettling too. 

Really I feel very stuck in not knowing what's best for me/him/kids, and not knowing the best way to move forward.  

My main issues: Feeling stuck in not knowing how to move forward. Being in a long-term separation where we're basically ignoring each other while trying to raise kids together, Leaver's Guilt, feeling generally unsettled with this relationship.

Sorry this is long and rambling and somewhat vague. It feels good to write, and there's a novel's worth of angst to write about.  If there's anything in here that you read that feels worth commenting on, I'm open for anything!

[d0nnivain]

What does your therapist say? 

I knew Leavers Guilt is a real thing but it's no reason to get back together to a marriage that wasn't working. 

[ZiggyZaggy]

1 minute ago, d0nnivain said:

What does your therapist say? 

I knew Leavers Guilt is a real thing but it's no reason to get back together to a marriage that wasn't working. 

My therapist says that I am not responsible for his feelings (I know this already) and that I shouldn't feel guilty about any of it.

However, telling someone not to feel bad, or to feel happy, or not to feel guilty, etc., doesn't make it any easier to do.  By being the one who left the family home, I see the impact it had on Hubby and the kids. It was actually emotionally easier for me to just keep my feelings stuffed inside myself and go along with just me being unhappy in my non-ideal marital relationship than to come out and say how I felt and experience the full domino effect on everyone else.  

I know that, given enough time, things will get easier. I was honestly hoping that I would be feeling more comfortable with things by now.  

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately, you are unclear whether you want to reconcile or not.

You need to consult an attorney anyway. That is not  filing for divorce, it's advice on how to navigate financial dependency, marital assets and child custody, visitation etc.

For example was it wise to just flee? Is that abandonment? Will you get alimony? Half the house? What about health insurance, etc.? All very important questions to ask an attorney. Just running away is not the best option. Marriage is a legal and financial contract.  If he gets an attorney first, you'll be in for a very rough ride taking risks like this.

At this point you've tried everything and he's not going to change. He's angry and argumentative. 

[ZiggyZaggy]

3 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately, you are unclear whether you want to reconcile or not.

You need to consult an attorney anyway. That is not  filing for divorce, it's advice on how to navigate financial dependency, marital assets and child custody, visitation etc.

For example was it wise to just flee? Is that abandonment? Will you get alimony? Half the house? What about health insurance, etc.? All very important questions to ask an attorney. Just running away is not the best option. Marriage is a legal and financial contract.  If he gets an attorney first, you'll be in for a very rough ride taking risks like this.

At this point you've tried everything and he's not going to change. He's angry and argumentative. 

RE Reconciliation:

Initially, it seemed like we might be able to reconcile after having some space and time apart. But time and space has not helped.  We met with a therapist for a while to help us work through some tough communication issues, and were able to be quite clear with each other about where we were and what we needed to work out together. And now the longer this goes on, it becomes quite clear that we are not headed towards any sort of reconciliation.

And no, you're correct, we have not used the services of any lawyer or attorney.  I realize I have put myself in a tremendously vulnerable position, and that's likely at least partially responsible for my feeling unsettled.  I realize of course that from a legal standpoint, we should have done some legal legwork right at the beginning. Now we're operating on some sense of trust that we aren't out to mess up each others' lives.  That probably sounds really stupid, irresponsible, ignorant. I have heard the stories, I know what happens to people who do this and trust each other, and many times it doesn't work out.  I may get totally screwed over. At this point, believe it or not, we still trust each other not to screw up each others lives.  In short, it's complicated. Currently, I am accepting the risk.

 

[Wiseman2]

7 hours ago, LizArt said:

, we have not used the services of any lawyer or attorney.

Consulting an attorney is not a "we" thing.

It's a you thing. A divorce is a plaintiff vs defendant situation.

It's odd you refer to him as "hubby", yet fled from what sounds like everything from extreme discord to some abuse.

You really need professional advice. Obviously your marriage counseling and individual counseling has done nothing to improve this.

 

[alphamale]

6 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Consulting an attorney is not a "we" thing.

It's a you thing. A divorce is a plaintiff vs defendant situation.

It's odd you refer to him as "hubby", yet fled from what sounds like everything from extreme discord to some abuse.

You really need professional advice. Obviously your marriage counseling and individual counseling has done nothing to improve this.

 

^^^this

[stillafool]

21 hours ago, LizArt said:

I want to feel financially secure (I was a full time homemaker, so still rely on hubbys income).

It seems your first step would be to becoming financially secure.  Do you work now?

[BaileyB]

I have never been divorced, but I think if my boyfriend was to reply he would say that he felt stuck for many years... He felt stuck in his marriage for years before he decided to file for divorce. The divorce proceedings took two years. And then, it took a year or two for life to settle into a new normal after the divorce was final. When I met him, I remember him saying one day that for the first time in 10 years, he felt like he was living again and he could look forward to the future.

So, I would suggest that what you are feeling is perhaps part of the process. I would suggest that your indecision, this “indefinite separation” is not helping you or your family. You are trying to do what is best for your children, but I have to wonder if you children would feel better if/when a decision is made rather than living with the uncertainty that is their family life at the moment. I mean, you are having them shuffle back and forth like their parents are divorced, but nothing is settled... I can well imagine that they are feeling much the same way that you are feeling...

If you are not working and still financially dependent on your husband, you are taking a huge risk by not filing for divorce. You are completely dependent on his goodwill but he could and likely will decide to withdraw his goodwill at any time... and where does that leave you? That would make me feel very unsettled. 

It seems to me that you know what you want, you say there are communication issues in your marriage that can not be resolved and you say that you don’t want to be married anymore. There is no shame in that. I would turn my focus toward becoming financially independent and how you plan to coparent as divorced parents. The next step is a big one, which is likely why you are dragging your feet... At some point, you will need to settle your affairs and you would be wise to consult a lawyer. Good luck. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by BaileyB

[ZiggyZaggy]

@Wiseman2 - I use the word "hubby" because we are still married. If I used "ex" that would imply divorce. Is there a word for my ex-hubb-partner while we're separated?

Our intent was/is to use a mediator/collaborative means, but all this was starting right at the beginning of the COVID pandemic, got stalled in March, and we have basically been in a holding pattern since then. 

@stillafool - I was a stay-at-home mom for 17 years, and we had always homeschooled our kids. The plan is to continue homeschooling, with me being primary "homeschool admin/teacher" which makes it impossible to hold a regular full-time job. I was doing a bunch of gig work until the pandemic and then all that stopped. I have been applying for jobs for the past 2 years and haven't secured anything except gigs, which for now is fine, but definitely not a livable income. So in short, no, I am not financially independent.

@BaileyB - thanks for your comments, that was helpful.

 

 

[ctdans]

At first I thought you were legally separated but after a second read you just "moved out".  Being in that position for two years just because of finances is no way to live.  I agree with others that you need legal counsel for either a legal separation and or a divorce.  They needn't be expensive.  There are many organizations that help women and some offer pro-bono (free).

A legal separation is very helpful with finances as you can protect yourself from his debt.  Being married what either of you do affects the others from credit line to outright responsibility for debt, including taxes.

If you two want be friendly about this get a mediator as that is less costly.  Slit the fair way and also cover the child support with a legal agreement and not just a promise.